Utilizing "future" cat5e drops in new home for Ethernet and home network - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 07-05-2013, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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So I just bought a new home. The couple that lived there beforehand had some runs made at the house with cat 5 e cable. They pointed out the distribution box and told me itshould all work if I terminated. So I scoured the Internet and found the info I needed. I terminated two jacks with the cable that was at the empty wall plates and then I punched down two sets in the box shown in the image on the right. "The pictures were taken before I punched". So after I did that, I plugged a Ethernet cable into the socket next to the punched cables in the same distribution box, and then connected it to one of the 4 available LAN ports in my Verizon modem/router. Of course, I have no hard line Internet to show for and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks! [IMG]
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post #2 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 10:47 AM
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What are those 8 pin flat cables connected to? Is it possible they go to your cat 5 wallplates? Those are not cat 5 patch cables.

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post #3 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 10:58 AM
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I cannot see the board to the far left.

The second board from the left is for phone distribution. Those numbers you see beside each jack tell you what phone lines run to that jack and in what order.

The third and fourth boards are for network use. The provide a jack for each cable punched down to it. The jacks are not connected to each other.

You need a network switch:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_switch (some info)

http://www.newegg.com/Switches/SubCategory/ID-30 (some examples)

Your internet provider should have installed a piece of hardware (what it is depends on several factors) that gives you at least one jack with your live internet connection. Then you need CAT5e patch cables. The flat ones you have are phone patch cables. They might work but they are not correct.

Now that you have the CAT5e patch cables you will need to run one from the live internet connection to a jack on the switch. Then youe need to run patch cables from the other jacks on the switch to the jacks on boards three and four. The punched down cables then should carry your network to the various rooms where I gather you have installed jacks on the ends of the cable in each room.

There are strict rules regarding the arrangement of the wires when you punch them down. Basically you need to remove the minimum amount of outer covering (keeping the pairs together) and retain the twisting of the individual pairs are much as possible right up to where you punch them down.

http://www.smarthomepro.com/images/865150_punch_step2_big.gif (a good example for a keystone jack)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2296/3535592691_f32b57cfcc_z.jpg?zz=1 (not too bad but it would be better if the cable came into the punch down strip at a right angle so as to minimize the amount of wire that is outside the outer covering)

What you have may work but it is not correct.

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt
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post #4 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 11:14 AM
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Generally, techs don't punch down the green and brown pairs when using 8 pin jacks for phones. 6 pin jacks should be used for phones to prevent people from accidentally trying to plug in a phone where an Ethernet connection is or vice verse. Make sure you know where the jacks with the flat cables plugged in go to.

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post #5 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 01:37 PM
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Since the provider is Verizon, and if you have Fios then they likely provided an Actiontek Modem/Router/Switch/Wifi unit. These are nice because it has everything you need integrated. See photo below to confirm.

If that is the case, then to ensure that the Verizon piece is good, pick one of the open yellow ports on the Actiontek and plug a laptop into it using a standard cat-5e patch cable. Test it with a laptop, make sure your laptop sees the Internet just fine.

If it does (it should), then you don't have to worry about that piece anymore, you now have to figure out what is going on with the cabling.

1. Use the far right piece in your Leviton box. The one that says 'LEVITON CATEGORY 5e'. That's the one which is designed to provide a proper Ethernet connection.

2. Pick the cable you want to use. You must be 100% sure it is going to the location you expect it to be going to.

3. At the location that cable is going to, take the wall plate off the wall and be sure that it is a cat-5e keystone insert which is connected to the other end of that cable, and be sure it is fully punched down. As mentioned above, if it was used before for phone, then it may be a RJ-11 type 6-position connector at the other end, which won't work.

4. Finally, punch down both ends and test them out with the router.

5. If you don't get an active connection, then I would get a cable tester or hire someone to come out for an hour or two who already has the right test equipment. Generally this would include a wire-toner as well as a cat-5e wire tester of some type. These tools are available at some hardware stores now and easily available online.

Basic cable pinout tester: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RJ45-RJ11-Cat5e-Cat6-Network-Lan-Cable-Tester-Test-Tool-Black-w-Package-/310693758388?pt=US_Cable_Testers&hash=item4856ca85b4

Basic wire toner: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NETWORK-PHONE-CABLE-WIRE-TONER-TRACER-TRACKER-AMPLIFIER-TUFF-JACKS-/161006177157?pt=US_Cable_Testers&hash=item257cb74b85

Actiontek type router/modem/wifi/switcher unit:


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post #6 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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SO I think I had done what you guys recommend. I am including the pictures of what it currently looks like. I haven't changed anything since I first started this thread, but, since I think there was some confusion so I am uploading the pictures of the distribution board after I punched ( the previous was an old picture and I didn't have a new picture since I had punched the two cables). I don't get any internet and I also don't get any lights on the fios router when I plug in the cable. Looks like both systems were using the A version of the cabling protocol and I had switched out the wall plates and punched the new RJ-45 jacks myself. Only the cable was behind the plate. I don't have the testing equipment, might have to order it, but on a further note when would the lights on the ethernet jack at the router light up? With a live connection? with just a good cable?



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post #7 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 05:56 PM
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First you need to hook a computer to one of the LAN ports on the router to see if you have a live internet connection.

You will need to a least get a continuity checker:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-VDV-Mulitmedia-Cable-Tester-33-856/202276231#.UditIW0Ut8E

Then you can check your wiring (within the limits of the tool you purchase).

If all checks out you should have a live internet connection in the room(s). With just that router you can have four rooms working.

You really should read up on the correct ways to punch down those wires. While they may work as shown you may in fact have a poor quality network connection which is not desirable.

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt
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post #8 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 07:52 PM
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It looks like you punched the cable down correctly. But by looking at the orange pair, I see it was not cut off when punched down. I question your connections. I don't know what kind of punch down tool you are are using or if you are using it correctly. Yes as stated above, if you have a laptop, connect it directly to the router and see if it lights up. It probably will. That will save you from buying test equipment that you will only use once. Yes, you should use the B side of the connector at the wallplate. If those 2 cables are for sure going to the wallplates you punched down, it should work. That A / B thing on connectors can really screw people up.

I was a Lead Tech where I worked (retired ) and stressed the importance of labeling cables. Most techs did not like to do that. I always used 2 pair cable for phones and 4 pair for LAN. When 2 pair was not available and we used 4 pair, we always left the brown and green pairs unterminated for phones.

You just have to be sure the cables you punched down are going to where you think they are going. When punched down correctly, you will get lights on your router.

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post #9 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 08:25 PM
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What do you mean "You should use the B side of the connector at the wall plate"?

Thanks!

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt
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post #10 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 10:36 PM
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The wall plate you are connecting to will have wire color markings labeled 'A' and 'B'. This is the 568A and 568B networking standard terminations. You want to use the 568B type standard, which is merely identified with a 'B' on many connectors.

Everything does look good on your head-end side, and I still am not sure if you tried plugging your laptop in directly to the Verizon router to ensure you get a live Internet connection, but I'm assuming that side is good.

That leaves you with the following:
1. You have no idea where the cable is going, so it's not the right one.
2. You don't have a full pinout on the wall plate side so it's not a good connection.
3. You have an improper pinout on the wall plate side so it's not a good connection.

You definitely have the right idea though so it's just down to a bit of troubleshooting.

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post #11 of 44 Old 07-06-2013, 10:47 PM
 
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For loopback testing, grab one of these http://www.lowes.com/pd_111115-12704-62-200_4294722453__?productId=3127545&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo= Mainly for RJ-45 testing, but works great when you are making sure all four pairs are where they should be and no opens. I use 568a for all my jacks in my house, and leave 568b for crossover cables, or phone jacks. The problem with those Leviton panels, is that the modules are overpriced for what they are worth, and you are better to just use a standard patch panel, or if using say six or eight lines for ethernet, just bring the drops into a box and use Keystones on a six hole plate like I did for terminating Ethernet at the Network equipment location.

The problem when people put those panels in, is that they only use them for phone, but never think about the fact that they are also for A/V distribution computer networking, and catv/coax distribution.
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post #12 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 03:12 AM
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A few things come to mind.

1. The TIA/EIA-568-B standard recommends using the 568A wiring. I have also read the the -C version of the standard as deprecated the 568B wiring

2. The US government requires 568A.

3. There is no performance difference between 568A and 568B.

4. According to the instruction sheet for a Leviton 47605-C5B, which appears to match the picture from the OP, the panel is wired to 568A.

5. If the Leviton panel is wired to 568A then the wall jacks on the other end should also be wired to 568A.

6. The 568B scheme matches a AT&T scheme 285A - which may explain why there is a lot of 586B out there.

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt
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post #13 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 09:47 AM
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We always used the B side, I thought the A side was the old way of doing it. Like stated, it don't matter as long as you do them all the same. fcwilt says that is an A wired Leviton, don't know how he determined that. To add a little more confusion here, patch cords are also wired A or B.

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post #14 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 11:38 AM
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After looking at Leviton's website, I found this...

http://communities.leviton.com/docs/DOC-2265

Leviton uses T568A in all of it's products according to this, so please disregard my previous statement!

When using a Leviton Cat-5e distribution panel like you have, you should ensure that the keystone jacks at your wall plates are using the 'A' (568A) scheme for wiring as this is what matches up with the board.

Otherwise, just use patch cables that are pre-terminated and have been tested as working properly.

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post #15 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 11:39 AM
 
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568-A is preferred, 568-B is the same as ATT 258A. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/568A
568B is the oldest standard of wiring. http://bracke.home.cern.ch/bracke/HTML/568A%20v%20568B.pdf
568-C is going to be the newest standard. http://www.siemon.com/us/standards/09-06-10-update-568-c.asp

568A is preferred for Network cabling, 568B for telephone or Intercom wiring. Has been that way since 1991 when 568A came about, along with 10Base-T.
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post #16 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 11:50 AM
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Since 568A matches the older USOC in regards to the position of the blue pair and the orange pair it doesn't follow the 568B should be used with phones.

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt
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post #17 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 01:46 PM
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post #18 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcwilt View Post

Since 568A matches the older USOC in regards to the position of the blue pair and the orange pair it doesn't follow the 568B should be used with phones.
Incorrect. 568B or ATT 258A follows the old ways, 568A is the newer way since 1991, and has been the way that Ethernet jacks should be wired. You should still wire telephone jacks for 568B.
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post #19 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

568-A is preferred, 568-B is the same as ATT 258A...
568-C is going to be the newest standard.
You are conflating standards for wiring a building and cable termination. TIA/EIA-568 is a standard for wiring buildings. It covers much more than cable termination. It is currently at revision C. T568A and T568B are pin-outs for terminating 8p8c modular jacks and plugs. There is no T568C.
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post #20 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 03:41 PM
 
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You might want to go check the one link I posted. 568C is the next chapter, so you may want to retract that statement. 568B is no longer the standard in wiring buildings for Ethernet, still though for telephone. And yes TIA/EIA-568 has always been the standard for any type of communication wiring method, whether it is for phone (digital or analog), or computer communications.

I swear this weekend is the weekend of the thickheaded since there seems to be a lot that want to argue petty stuff like you are Colm. I have posted the links of the standards, if you want to argue about them, go argue with those that wrote them. As for how people wire their jacks or patch panels in their homes, it is up to them whether they choose 568a or 568b. Majority of us use 568A for jacks, and 568B for patch cords or telephone jacks.
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post #21 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Incorrect. 568B or ATT 258A follows the old ways, 568A is the newer way since 1991, and has been the way that Ethernet jacks should be wired. You should still wire telephone jacks for 568B.

Check the wire colors.

Phone colors: Line 1 is the blue pair, Line 2 is the orange pair, Line 3 is the green pair.

In a USOC the innermost pair is the blue pair which is Line 1, the next pair (moving out) is the orange pair which is Line 2, the next pair (moving out again) is the green pair which is Line 3.

This matches the wiring of 568A in regards to Line 1 and Line 2.

568B swaps the orange pair with the green pair which puts "Line 3" where "Line 2" should be.

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt
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Again I did not write the rules in how things are wired. You need to go and read the info I linked, just like Colm. The rules were written before Ethernet jacks became the standard, and was adapted by those that decided which would work for what they were wiring. You like Colm need to do some reading at the links I posted, so I am finished arguing with the thickheaded and those who want to continue petty childish arguments about something that is written in stone as by TiA/Eia as to which is used for what situation.

BTW, Orange pair has always been Line 2 as to why 568B is always used for telephone jacks. There are just some out there that keep wanting to go with 568A for every jack, regardless if it is phone or computer network, not follow standards.
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post #23 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll 
I swear this weekend is the weekend of the thickheaded since there seems to be a lot that want to argue petty stuff like you are Colm.

It's not being petty. He is correct. TIA/EIA-568-A, TIA/EIA-568-B, TIA/EIA-568-C are versions of the standard. T568A and T568B are termination schemes.

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt
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post #24 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcwilt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll 
I swear this weekend is the weekend of the thickheaded since there seems to be a lot that want to argue petty stuff like you are Colm.

It's not being petty. He is correct. TIA/EIA-568-A, TIA/EIA-568-B, TIA/EIA-568-C are versions of the standard. T568A and T568B are termination schemes.
I did not create the standards, just posted the links. As for how people want to wire their keystones, that is up to them. Again it is a petty argument, going back and forth about something like this, just because one person disagrees with how the other does their Keystones.

I have always used 568B for telephone for over 25 years, and 568A for over 20, and will continue to do so, because that is the standard that has been there in wiring computer & telephone keystones since 1991.
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post #25 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post


BTW, Orange pair has always been Line 2 as to why 568B is always used for telephone jacks.

Like I said T568A follows the USOC standard (as far as Line and Line 2) for phones and has Line 2 where it "belongs".

T568B has Line 3 where Line 2 normally is found.

You are welcome to use whatever you want but there is no standard that states T568B is to be used for phones. There is a lot of tradition but that does not a standard make.

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt
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post #26 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 04:56 PM
 
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Again, go back and read the links, because it is obvious that you have not. Yes 568A follows USOC standards, but that is only due to it is used for T-1 & Computer Networking, which T-1 is. How much more do I have to argue that you are wanting to believe what you want, but I am going by what I have linked, and what I was trained to do over 20 years ago, when I went through school for doing telephone work. And as I also mentioned it is up to people to use what they want in their homes as their standard, no one is going to go in and state that they should be using one over the other.

To clear some more confusion why the two standards are used:

"There are two accepted standards for 8-wire data network jacks (commonly and incorrectly called "RJ-45.")

ANSI/TIA/EIA-568-B "Commercial Building Telecommunications Cabling Standard" lists both wiring configurations. T568B is the most prevalent for commercial installations, and was used by AT&T for the original Merlin phone systems. To help you remember, associate "B" with "Bell."

ANSI/TIA/EIA-570-B "Residential Telecommunications Cabling Standards" recommends T568A

If the installation is residential, choose T568A unless other conditions apply (see below). The two inner pairs of 568A are wired the same as a two-line phone jack.
If there is pre-existing voice/data wiring (remodel, moves, adds, changes), duplicate this wiring scheme on any new connection.
If project specifications are available, use the specified wiring configuration.
If components used within the project are internally wired for either T568A or T568B, use that wiring scheme.
Make sure both ends of a cable are wired the same way."

http://www.phonegeeks.com/56vs56whshyo.html

http://www.tech-faq.com/568a.html

http://www.incentre.net/ethernet-wiring-diag.html

only reason you have a lot using 568B, is because it became the standard in 2002, but was actually used prior to even 568A was the standard in 1995, as stated before, due to 568B follows the ATT258A. As for 568C, which is the next gen, it will change things again. Only thing to remember is use the same wiring method through out the cabling, but most like myself as I have stated twice, use 568A for ethernet, 568B for telephone, just so you can distinguish between the two which is which, and makes things easier in the long run.

But really it is up to the person doing the termination in what they choose, and no one has to make that person use one method over the other, it is all personal choice what they use. As for 568C wiring standard being the next gen, it is still being ratified as to how it will be done in the long run. http://www.cablinginstall.com/articles/print/volume-16/issue-9/features/design/568-c0-the-next-generation-of-cabling-standards.html

http://www.kazionetworks.com/tia-568-c-cabling-standard-released/
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post #27 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 06:19 PM
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You might want to go check the one link I posted.
Gee, I am sorry I used a big word like conflate that you apparently don't understand. I will be sure to use smaller words with you in the future.
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post #28 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 06:21 PM
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...childish...
The only thing childish I have seen in this thread is your name calling and ranting.
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...childish...
The only thing childish I have seen in this thread is your name calling and ranting.
Call it what you want, but the only person I ever see act childish on this forum is the likes of you. Ranting and raving, I am not even close to ranting about stuff yet. Give me a chance and I will lay it out on the table as I have done before, when people just cannot get it through their thick heads as to what is being stated. I have always found this site to be full of both those that do not have a clue about electronics, and those that have been around this stuff so long, that you can tell those that need to be knocked off their Ivory tower, and those who you can respect for what they know.

This whole talk about the wiring standards is nothing more than you and one other person that want to have a petty argument about how things should be done, because the likes of you and the OP do it one way and I do it the other way as I have been taught to do over twenty five years ago.
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post #30 of 44 Old 07-07-2013, 06:32 PM
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...people just cannot get it through their thick heads as to what is being stated....
Maybe you need to reconsider how you state things then.
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...you...do it one way and I do it the other way...
Which way do I do it? I never said. Maybe I do it just the way you do it. You are ranting about something I never said. Go back and read what I said and hopefully you will understand.
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