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post #1 of 38 Old 07-20-2013, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I’m looking for a simple to use (family) system/setup for my three audio zones (great rm, front porch, rear sun rm) of ceiling speakers (2-2 sets & 1-3set) to control from the AVR in an A/V cabinet in the great rm. Each set has a 16/4 wire coming from them, thus 5 wires to the A/V cabinet. I’ll run CAT6 from each zone to the A/V cabinet and to a wall switch for each zone (TBD use). The AVR will connect to the HDTV (kitchen) and DIRECTV and iDock for music source. What hardware do I need to complete this setup if I don’t want an outside programmer, but a DIY KISS system?? I’m will build a separate Home Theater, so this is for my wife to use!!! smile.gif

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post #2 of 38 Old 07-20-2013, 08:35 AM
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A KISS system for three zones would be a NuVo P3100. Or three Sonos Connect:Amps. Neither will have wall-mounted controls / keypads, though. All control would be done through a mobile device, but either solution has digital / Internet sources built-in, which makes them both extremely easy to use.

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post #3 of 38 Old 07-21-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff a little help!! What hardware does all the speaker wire tie into?? Why do I need these if I already have a AVR? I'm missing the reason for these?

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post #4 of 38 Old 07-21-2013, 03:56 PM
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Jeff a little help!! What hardware does all the speaker wire tie into?? Why do I need these if I already have a AVR? I'm missing the reason for these?

You said "simple"... Using an AVR's zone2 output (assuming your AVR has one), along with a speaker selector / volume controls, and then at least two apps or control points to select music, adjust volume, etc. - is not simple...

But if budget is the highest concern, an Aton DLA4 with keypads for zone control (with keypads via cat5e) or the RF remote, plus a zone2 amp to power all three zones, would be a less-expensive solution (~$500 vs $1500).

Jeff


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post #5 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Jeff for your feedback! Simple doesn't always mean budget, it means less outside maintenance.

1. I do not see where the different speakers connect with the NuVo or Sonos systems? At least with the Aton I can see where the different zones would connect and that the Aton connects to the AVR. Also has wall control with cat5 runs and/or remote.

2. I'm looking at three different a/v zones being used at the same time; home theater, main floor and basement. I want all three independent of each other, except for the DirecTV connection. Example; me in the HT watch football, wife in the kitchen listening to her music (itouch/ipad or what ever), kids playing in basement with their music or surround sound TV.

3. For the main and basement, the system concept sounds like the Aton system?? What other avenues should I look for?

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post #6 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Now I have a better understanding of what I'm looking for, a speaker selector! Like the Aton Jeff recommended, this tool connects the speakers with the audio source, can be controlled by touch pads and/or RF remote. It's very nice to get recommendation and then read about those recommendation, it helps turn on the light in a dark room!!!!

A audio source would be the NuVo P3100??

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post #7 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 07:38 AM
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1. I do not see where the different speakers connect with the NuVo or Sonos systems? At least with the Aton I can see where the different zones would connect and that the Aton connects to the AVR. Also has wall control with cat5 runs and/or remote.

With the Sonos or NuVo systems, they ARE the amplifier, your AVR isn't in the picture at all.
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2. I'm looking at three different a/v zones being used at the same time; home theater, main floor and basement. I want all three independent of each other, except for the DirecTV connection. Example; me in the HT watch football, wife in the kitchen listening to her music (itouch/ipad or what ever), kids playing in basement with their music or surround sound TV.

If two of the three zones are surround-sound systems, you'll need two AVRs. If you have one with a Zone2 output, you could use it to run the kitchen and use the built-in streaming features.
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Now I have a better understanding of what I'm looking for, a speaker selector! Like the Aton Jeff recommended, this tool connects the speakers with the audio source, can be controlled by touch pads and/or RF remote. It's very nice to get recommendation and then read about those recommendation, it helps turn on the light in a dark room!!!!

The speaker selector(s) will only work for stereo zones and distribution. If you want surround (5.1) in the basement, you'll need a second AVR or other solution.
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A audio source would be the NuVo P3100??

It could be, but it's really a self-contained 3-zone system.


Jeff


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post #8 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you again for your feedback, starting to "skin the cat". Understand about the two amplifiers vice AVR, what do you use to connect all the 16/4 speaker wires coming from the ceiling speakers??

I have two AVR's now, only one will be used for the basement surround sound systems. The other will be used as the amplifier for the main floor. I will buy a complete setup for the home theater room. Both of these AVR's will be used for the stereo system, I do not need an additional amplifier system. From these AVR's will be connected the audio sources, all of which I own now.

My question or issue is how to connect the speakers to the AVR's?? Your answers for far is the Aton system. Since I want to independent systems, then it means two of anything I buy. This way they are independent of each other, the system is kept simple to use and control, I do not need outside babysitting!!!! So the question is, what system provides speaker control with wall unit and remote???? Am I on the right track????

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post #9 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 09:04 AM
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You need to clarify what systems / rooms are involved - you mention a lot of different rooms and systems... If you have two additional rooms (zones) that are stereo-only, and you want independent source/volume control, you'll need either a 3-zone AVR (to serve the main surround-capable zone plus two more zones), or two independent zone systems. The choice will also be dependent on where all the wiring is.

If you already have all the AVRs you need - I'd suggest a pair of Sonos Connect:Amp or Nuvo P100 units to serve those two additional rooms. They are completely independent and can also accept an external analog input (per unit). And both qualify as simple!


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post #10 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting there thank you. Here is what I’m looking at based on your feedback! I have 3 a/v zones all separate; Home Theater, main floor, basement.

Home theater room (main floor off to the side 3rd bay of the garage)
--Only cross over is DirecTV genie
--Separate a/v closet w/ back door to garage for access to wires)
--All equipment to buy and setup

Main floor
Separate a/v cabinet
--AVR (older 5.1) for sound system
--iDock (own)
--Speaker control unit (Aton DLA6 example)

3 HDTV’s; kitchen, office, sun room
--Only crossover DirecTV genie
--All controlled by their own DirecTV remote
--All TV speakers internal or soundbar

4 rooms audio ceiling speakers; great room (3-sets), front porch (1 set), sun room (1-set), master bedroom (1-set)
--TBD wall touch pads (DLATP) x 4
--Remote control (DLA6RKT RF Remote & Receiver Package)

Basement
Separate a/v cabinet
--AVR (newer 7.1 own) for surround sound system
--iDock
--DVD/Blu-ray player (own)
--Speaker control unit for ceiling speakers(Aton DLA6 example)

2 HDTV’s; lounge, gym
--Only crossover DirecTV genie

Lounge
--Surround sound floor/wall speakers (own)
--Controlled by DirecTV remote/Denon or universal

Gym
--TV speakers internal or soundbar/wall
--Controlled by DirecTV remote

6 rooms audio ceiling speakers; great rm (15’ x 66’ w/ 3-sets), gym (1-set), back porch (1-set), back yard (1-set)
--TBD wall touch pads (DLATP) x 3
--Remote control (DLA6RKT RF Remote & Receiver Package)

Looking at this, what is your feedback?? I know it's a lot of information.

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post #11 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 11:10 AM
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You've got stuff listed twice, I can't make out the totals. Way too many numbers with conflicting details.

List each room once, tell us where the wires go, and whether that room will have audio or audio/video, or A/V with surround support, and if the room has installed speakers or not. That will be the critical thing that may dictate a solution.

A diagram would be the best thing for you to do at this point. These get confusing very quickly when there's more than one wiring point involved.


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post #12 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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OK Jeff, here is a quick drawing. This is the main floor with my Home Theater separate from the a/v on this floor.




Here is the basement with the a/v separate from the main floor



Does the previous post make more sense now?? I thought two separate Aton DLA6's would work?? Now you can send a broad side!

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post #13 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff,
If I use the DLA6, does this mean I can only play 1 audio source at one time or multiple??

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post #14 of 38 Old 07-22-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

Jeff,
If I use the DLA6, does this mean I can only play 1 audio source at one time or multiple??

The DLA is a speaker selector - any product of that type will take a single, amplified output from an amp/AVR and play it on one or more pairs of speakers. If that's connected to a Zone2 output (amplified) on an AVR, you can play something different than Zone1. But all connected pairs will receive the same source.

If you want truly independent zones, you need a whole-house audio (WHA) system.

From your diagrams, you have at least six audio zones, not including the theater or the lounge AVR locations. The large open areas with multiple speakers can be considered a single zone. But you may need to use a separate amp (and certainly an impedance-matching device) for those large areas.

Is there a reason all those zones (again, excluding the surround locations) can't be wired to the main AV closet? That would allow you to use any number of WHA systems.

Also, I'm not a fan of the "opposite corner" speaker placements (did you get that from someone other than Crutchfield? Just curious...) - I prefer them centered on the long room axis, unless there's a reason to do otherwise (such as over the headboard in a bedroom).

If you're wiring for this now, you should wire WHA zones in the office, bedrooms, and the garage... And I assume there's a master bath that could use a pair, too.

Jeff


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post #15 of 38 Old 07-23-2013, 02:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Will not be wiring for awhile, just starting excavating so still in the learning phase.
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From your diagrams, you have at least six audio zones, not including the theater or the lounge AVR locations. The large open areas with multiple speakers can be considered a single zone. But you may need to use a separate amp (and certainly an impedance-matching device) for those large areas.

Had to lookup "impedance-matching device", now I understand my internal question about "can I connect 3-set of speakers as 1". The solution I thought of was two separate DLA6's, 1-main and 1-basement. Each set of speakers to it's own slot, there are 6-sets of speaker main and 6-sets basement. That leads into your next question.
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Is there a reason all those zones (again, excluding the surround locations) can't be wired to the main AV closet? That would allow you to use any number of WHA systems.

Biggest reason is my lack of knowledge and outside babysitting! I was looking at a system that "KISS" so I could manage it myself and separate upstairs from downstairs. Because I have a full surround sound system and a extra DVR, and a wife who does not handle technology very well. I'm building in rural Idaho where internet access is very very limited, so streaming is limited, as with vender knowledge and installation. So, disregarding the Home Theater room, I thought to divided the house into TWO separate zones/systems. Long answer to a short question!

I read your write up on the HDR44 for the video, I assume you have the ATON DH44 Digital Audio Router for your audio or something like it??
Quote:
Also, I'm not a fan of the "opposite corner" speaker placements (did you get that from someone other than Crutchfield? Just curious...) - I prefer them centered on the long room axis, unless there's a reason to do otherwise (such as over the headboard in a bedroom).

Do not know where I read it, but I did read it. So the location main great room basement would only require 2-sets vice 3-sets? ( X X X X) on the long axis? Why do you see side by side pairing in most photo examples vice the long axis?

Did you buy all your wiring from Monoprice? RG6-Cat6-HDMI-etc... Thank you again for helping the blind, I do see a light at the end of the tunnel!!

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post #16 of 38 Old 07-23-2013, 02:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff,
Not to muddy the already muddy water, I assume the WHA system would be like: DH46X - Digital Audio Expansion Router with DIGI-5 Technology?? About the same cost as the DLA6 ($500).

No outside programming, wall touch pads to manage the source. 1 location with 6 zones of managed audio. Look at my WHA; Main 4 audio zones (Great room, sun room, front porch, master bedroom) and Basement 2 audio zones (great room/gym and back porch/yard)?? This would require 6 DHTP1 Amplified Touch Pads?? Where do you connect the speaker sets to??

Is this what you were thinking, with the home theater and basement surround separate??

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post #17 of 38 Old 07-23-2013, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff,
I have found the Aton home website and the manual section, amazing what you find when given a good recommendation!! Now starting to get a better understanding of the products and applications.

Question; I assume your home theater equipment (thread) is separate from your home entertainment equipment?? Does anything crossover??

From my application of home theater equipment separate from home entertainment equipment, I would look to use the DH44 Digital Audio Router (only 4 zones) and add the
ATON DH46X Expansion Router for additional zones. Based on number of zones, install DHTP1 Amplified Touch Pads. Cat6 back to DH44 or DH46X, speaker wire 16/4 to DHTP1s. Connect AVR to DH44, rock and roll??? If I wanted to localize a source, add the DHSIP Source Input Wall Plate.

Am I on the right track, or where did I go wrong??

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post #18 of 38 Old 07-23-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

Biggest reason is my lack of knowledge and outside babysitting! I was looking at a system that "KISS" so I could manage it myself and separate upstairs from downstairs. Because I have a full surround sound system and a extra DVR, and a wife who does not handle technology very well

If you centralize all the speaker runs and the system for the WHA zones, you'll be much better off. Keep the AVR zones (surround sound) separate and self-contained. You can cross-connect AVR zones and the WHA system to share sources. I do this on mine - TV (set-top box) audio is piped to the WHA system so I can listen to the news in the bathroom, have sporting events broadcast throughout the house, etc.
Quote:
I read your write up on the HDR44 for the video, I assume you have the ATON DH44 Digital Audio Router for your audio or something like it??

I have a NuVo Grand Concerto, which is a central amp-based system with keypads (with display and metadata).
Quote:
Do not know where I read it, but I did read it. So the location main great room basement would only require 2-sets vice 3-sets? ( X X X X) on the long axis? Why do you see side by side pairing in most photo examples vice the long axis?

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was talking about the 2-speaker rooms - the large rooms where you've got six speakers shown are fine...
Quote:
Did you buy all your wiring from Monoprice? RG6-Cat6-HDMI-etc... Thank you again for helping the blind, I do see a light at the end of the tunnel!!

Yes.
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Jeff,
Not to muddy the already muddy water, I assume the WHA system would be like: DH46X - Digital Audio Expansion Router with DIGI-5 Technology?? About the same cost as the DLA6 ($500).

You need the base AH66KT system first... For new construction, I wouldn't recommend the Digi5 / A-bus systems as they're limited by the in-wall amp technology. Nothing "wrong" with them, but for more than a few zones, especially with larger rooms, you want the flexibility of a central amplifier-based setup.
Quote:
No outside programming, wall touch pads to manage the source. 1 location with 6 zones of managed audio. Look at my WHA; Main 4 audio zones (Great room, sun room, front porch, master bedroom) and Basement 2 audio zones (great room/gym and back porch/yard)?? This would require 6 DHTP1 Amplified Touch Pads?? Where do you connect the speaker sets to??

None of the "standalone" WHA systems require professional programming if you're willing to DIY... You may have to work with a dealer or national web retailer to get a unit with warranty and access to the programming software, but it can be done yourself. Any of the systems from HTD, NuVo, Russound, Xantech, Aton and a few others can work. Concentrate first on getting the wiring done right and you'll be able to use any of these systems when you're ready to buy...

By wiring each zone with a keypad location (cat5e home-run), you then loop the speaker wires through that location on their way to the individual speakers to allow the use of amplified keypads (if you choose one of those systems). Having multiple pairs of speakers in a room makes this a bit more difficult...
Quote:
Is this what you were thinking, with the home theater and basement surround separate??

Yes. Treat the surround AVR zones as independent systems, and all the 2-channel "audio only" zones as a WHA system...
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Question; I assume your home theater equipment (thread) is separate from your home entertainment equipment?? Does anything crossover??

Yep, answered above... The systems are cross-connected so I can listen to select sources originating on other other system(s).

Jeff


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post #19 of 38 Old 07-23-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your feedback, will look into your feedback and read web info.

I'm assuming for a 20 x 40 great room main I would need 3-sets of ceiling speakers, the 15 x 66 basement would for sure?? The basement surround sound in the lounge area 15 x 24 has 2-Definitive Tech BP 2002tl w/ 12" powered subwoofers and 250 watt amps. This is powered by a Denon AVR-3808ci at 130 watts x 7 into 8 ohms. This Denon has a room 2 & 3, Ethernet port, USB and etc...

Can I split duty with this AVR; basement surround sound (limited use) and the separate audio system setup for the house??

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post #20 of 38 Old 07-23-2013, 03:43 PM
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I'm assuming for a 20 x 40 great room main I would need 3-sets of ceiling speakers, the 15 x 66 basement would for sure??

I would delete the basement speakers in your lounge area, as you can use the surround system to fill that space as long as the zones can share the same source.
Quote:
Can I split duty with this AVR; basement surround sound (limited use) and the separate audio system setup for the house??

It certainly could, with a 3-zone AVR you'd have enough to run the other basement speakers and the patio/back yard. But I'd run speaker wire to allow for both scenarios - a multizone AVR in the basement, or a WHA system in the upstairs AV closet. That could be accomplished with duplicate runs to the keypad locations, for example.

I would probably suggest using the AVR for the open basement area (external amp for zone2), but run the patio from a WHA system as a zone. The reason being ease-of-use in areas more likely to be used independently of the AVR...


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post #21 of 38 Old 07-24-2013, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Not to change the subject, but what do you use for HDTV?? Dish or DirecTV?? Do you use the Hopper or Genie or an Aton product??

As discussed in prior threads, I plan to use DirecTV-Genie (football package). I have the following TV's:
1. Home Theater (surround sound/AVR)
2. Main Floor-Kitchen, Office, Sun Room
3. Basement-Lounge (surround sound/AVR), Gym

DirecTV-Genie allows 4-4, thus HT, Lounge-Gym (slave), Kitchen-Sun Room (slave), Office. DirecTV feed into basement a/v cabinet and then routed. Wiring; 2-RG6 and 1 Cat6. the extra RG6 and Cat6 are pulled for TBD. The two primary viewing areas are the HT and lounge, these will have AVR's and DVD players. The other 4 viewing areas are through DirecTV and the Genie system. I'll watch 80% in HT, 20% in Office and Lounge (playing pool/air hockey/etc.). My wife 50% in Kitchen (cooking shows), 30% in HT, 20% lounge/Sun room). SWAG numbers!!

Is there something else I should be looking at now for wiring??

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post #22 of 38 Old 07-24-2013, 07:17 AM
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I'm on DirecTV (for a long time now), and I use the Aton HDR44 for HD distribution, but I set up my house before the whole-house DVR stuff was available. I'd still use an HD distribution system as I've got some odd requirements, but for many folks, the whole-house DVR offerings will be the way to go, as the cost of the set-top box rentals will take many years to equal the up-front cost of the HDMI distribution. And the DVR path provides more functionality - as long as those are the only source(s) you want to distribute.

But regardless of the provider, you should wire the house such that you can choose any path in the future, which means lots of cat6 and enough RG6. You should pull at least 2 cat6 (three is better) to every potential display location, and then enough cat6 drops around the rooms to ensure you can reach a jack from any viable wall (without crossing a door frame). Key AV locations can be future-proofed by adding a flex conduit run to an accessible attic/crawlspace area, so any cabling can be added in the future.

Cat6 wire is super cheap, it will never be cheap to add another wire in the future.

Jeff


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post #23 of 38 Old 07-24-2013, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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We discussed this a little before and came to the same conclusion based on my needs. I'm working on my wiring needs and where. I had plan to pull myself the a/v requirements, thus my question.
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You should pull at least 2 cat6 (three is better) to every potential display location, and then enough cat6 drops around the rooms to ensure you can reach a jack from any viable wall (without crossing a door frame).

To all a/v location and TBD location (stubbed); 2 RG6 and 2Cat6. Why the 3rd cat6??

What is meant by cat6 drops to reach a jack from any viable wall??
Quote:
You need the base AH66KT system first... For new construction, I wouldn't recommend the Digi5 / A-bus systems as they're limited by the in-wall amp technology. Nothing "wrong" with them, but for more than a few zones, especially with larger rooms, you want the flexibility of a central amplifier-based setup.

The AH66KT is $4.5K, way to much for listening to audio. I would rather invest in my HT equipment, pool table and projected play toys. Why the dislike for the DH44/46X and the wall units? It looks like it meets my needs; controls ceiling speakers, short runs of 16/4 wire, digital signal through cat6 wire, multi source in powered by AVR and controlled at zone, homerun all speakers/wall unit with cat6. If the true WHA system is out of my price range, isn't this the next best based on my needs??

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post #24 of 38 Old 07-24-2013, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

To all a/v location and TBD location (stubbed); 2 RG6 and 2Cat6. Why the 3rd cat6??

Inexpensive HDMI distribution systems use two cat6 cables, so the third would allow for Ethernet. Now, with HDBaseT technology coming down in price, this can all be solved with a single cable - but the wire is so cheap, having the future flexibility is good. Two should be considered the absolute minimum, though.
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What is meant by cat6 drops to reach a jack from any viable wall??

For bedrooms and other spaces where wired Ethernet or audio devices may be used - you want to be able to reach any piece of furniture in the room (meaning, where devices would sit) without the wires going across doors. Think electrical cords and outlets - we have them every 6' and on every wall for exactly that reason. The same can be true for Ethernet, but wiring one every 6' in every room would be overkill, even in this forum! So my recommendation is to get there with the minimum number of outlets. If you have to run an Ethernet patch cord halfway around the room along the baseboard, not a big deal. Since most rooms have at least two door frames (door plus closet), two outlets are usually needed to reach all the walls.
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The AH66KT is $4.5K, way to much for listening to audio. I would rather invest in my HT equipment, pool table and projected play toys. Why the dislike for the DH44/46X and the wall units? It looks like it meets my needs; controls ceiling speakers, short runs of 16/4 wire, digital signal through cat6 wire, multi source in powered by AVR and controlled at zone, homerun all speakers/wall unit with cat6. If the true WHA system is out of my price range, isn't this the next best based on my needs??

A WHA system can be had for a lot less (HTD.com)... It's not that I dislike the Digi-5 stuff, it's great for retrofits and 'normal' room sizes, although given the choice of a keypad amp and a centralized system, I'd go with the centralized. But in your case, you've got two really big rooms that the 20W keypad amps are not going to be able to fill.

And while the cost of a WHA system may be a lot to swallow - done correctly they can get use daily (I use mine every day). Do all the wiring right, and you can start with a simple zone2 setup, and upgrade over time - we all have our spending priorities!

Jeff


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post #25 of 38 Old 07-24-2013, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Inexpensive HDMI distribution systems use two cat6 cables, so the third would allow for Ethernet. Now, with HDBaseT technology coming down in price, this can all be solved with a single cable - but the wire is so cheap, having the future flexibility is good. Two should be considered the absolute minimum, though.

HDMI distribution systems is what, DirecTV?? Doesn't DirecTV run on RG6?? Wire is cheap at pre-construction than the nightmare of "I wish I had". My issue is just understanding what it is for, TBD I understand.

Very good explanation of cat6 drops and why, thank you. So like phone jacks in each room, Ethernet jacks on each wall or at least two walls. Isn't a phone line cat5/6 these days?? Can't you just double that jack with 1-phone & 1-ethernet??

The keypads are 30 amps! Understanding limited application not WHA, the only issue is the two great rooms of 2-3 sets of speakers?

HTD is a product line, much like Aton??

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post #26 of 38 Old 07-24-2013, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Is this correct or am I on the right track??

The HTD WHA system requires speaker wire (16/4) home-run from speaker to a/v cabinet. Cat6 home-run from wall plate to a/v cabinet. Is this what you would call a typical wiring scenario for WHA??

The system in the Aton DH44/46X is an A-Bus system; 16/4 to wall plate and cat6 to controller.

What does it mean by A-Bus system: A-BUS consists of two basic components: A “HUB” and a “POWER MODULE”.
In an A-BUS-based multi-room audio system, sound sources such as a CD player and AM-FM tuner connect to the hub and are distributed via Cat-5 cable to amplifier modules in outlying rooms. The hub also supplies the electricity that powers the power modules. The amplifier modules connect directly to the speakers using conventional speaker wire. A simple power module is a single-gang wall plate (like a light switch) that contains amplifier circuitry as well as a volume knob for adjusting speaker volume. A power module wall plate may also contain a keypad and an IR receiver that allows for direct control of the sound sources. In this case, commands issued on the keypad or via an IR remote travel back to the sound sources via the same Cat-5 cable.

The WHA is a multidimensional system where the A-bus system is one dimensional?? The WHA system is more geared for future expansion or application, where the a-bus system met a specific need/requirement and is more limited in the future??

Cost more upfront to wire a WHA than the a-bus, but wiring is cheaper than retrofit!

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post #27 of 38 Old 07-24-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

Is this correct or am I on the right track??

The HTD WHA system requires speaker wire (16/4) home-run from speaker to a/v cabinet. Cat6 home-run from wall plate to a/v cabinet. Is this what you would call a typical wiring scenario for WHA?? The system in the Aton DH44/46X is an A-Bus system; 16/4 to wall plate and cat6 to controller.

Yes. But if you follow the CEA's standard practice for speaker wiring, you can wire to allow for either system architecture. A cat6 to the keypad location. 16/4 home run to the keypad, then 16/2 from the keypad to each speaker. So if you use a centralized amp, you merely splice the 16/4 and 16/2's together - making a pass-through to the speakers.
Quote:
What does it mean by A-Bus system: A-BUS consists of two basic components: A “HUB” and a “POWER MODULE”.

The WHA is a multidimensional system where the A-bus system is one dimensional?? The WHA system is more geared for future expansion or application, where the a-bus system met a specific need/requirement and is more limited in the future??

Cost more upfront to wire a WHA than the a-bus, but wiring is cheaper than retrofit!

A-Bus systems are WHA systems, they just use a distributed amplifier architecture instead of a centralized one. Both architectures have some benefits - get the wiring right and you can choose any of them. Generally speaking, the A-Bus systems are "entry level" products and have less functionality than the central-amp products, but that's a product-design decision, not a limitation of the architecture.

Again, I don't think a Digi-5 / A-Bus system will be right for you, given the large rooms that you have to cover - the distributed amps are just not big enough to fill rooms that large with sound. To that end, you'll probably need an external amp (or merge two zones together) to produce enough sound for the great room, regardless.

Jeff


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post #28 of 38 Old 07-25-2013, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes. But if you follow the CEA's standard practice for speaker wiring, you can wire to allow for either system architecture. A cat6 to the keypad location. 16/4 home run to the keypad, then 16/2 from the keypad to each speaker. So if you use a centralized amp, you merely splice the 16/4 and 16/2's together - making a pass-through to the speakers.

I know understand it's better to over wire than underwire! But I'm having a little hard time understanding the different types of wiring and where. If I were to wire for both and making room drops, please help with what, where and why.

Example; Great Room main floor with homerun to basement mechanical room A/V cabinet.
1. Zone 1: 3 sets ceiling speakers, 1 wall touch pad, 4 room drops, ipad drop (local dock), all runs less than 100' (16 vice 14 AWG)
2. 16/4 (16/2 connect) from each speaker set to ? Where is the impedance matching hardware located, how does it connect ?
3. Cat6 from each speaker set to ?
4. Cat6 from wall pad homerun ?
5. Cat6 from ipad dock homerun ? I assume ipad/phone etc. use it's volume control ?
6. Cat6 from each room drop homerun ?

I'll draw it up after you explain, this is the hardest room (like great room basement) to understand.

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post #29 of 38 Old 07-25-2013, 06:55 AM
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http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/file/64-wiring-your-new-house-101/

Take a look at the installation manuals at HTD.com as they've got some good diagrams that show how these get wired.

Pick a location for your wiring closet, and a location for your whole-house AV equipment. While it's easiest if those are the same place, it's not critical. If they are in different locations, you just need to connect the two locations with ample wire for patching systems together.

Speaker wire and keypad cat6 all need to be home-run to the same location - wherever the WHA / AV distribution gear goes. The rest of the cat6 / RG6 drops go to your central wiring closet.

Items such as an iPod dock, I'd still run those to the wiring closet - and then back out to the AV stack if it's in a different place. You want to wire for flexibility in the future whenever possible and not have "dedicated" outlets that will eventually fall into disuse...


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post #30 of 38 Old 07-25-2013, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Audio Only Requirements: OK, all wiring and equipment other than Home Theater room main will be homerun to the a/v closet in the basement mechanical room. Build a flush closet/cabinet front into great room with an open back for easy access. Home theater basement lounge homerun to same closet. All work off my AVR-3808ci. Home Theater basement lounge runs of zone A and all others of Zone B.

There are 8 audio zones; (1) 3-set ceiling speaker and (3) 1-set ceiling speaker basement and main floor. That means (12) 16/4 speaker wires home run, (8) cat6 keypads homerun.

Home theater basement 5.1; (5) 16/2 home run, subwoofers within L/R speakers.

(2) iPod docks 2 cat6 homerun.

Question; do I run 2 of everything as a backup?

Question; do I run 16/4 to each speaker set from each keypad and then 16/2 connect speakers?

Question; what do I use (impedance matching) for the 3-set ceiling speakers and where does it go?

Question; for the ceiling speaker side, do I need another amp?

Did I miss something?

http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/file/64-wiring-your-new-house-101/ tried this but would not let me download??

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