Multiroom audio with AVR Zone distrubution - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 09-08-2013, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hi All,

Is it possible to have multiroom audio with AVR Zone 2,3 system with independent track,source,volume change in different rooms. If I run common spk cables from AVR to different room, both the AVR room and the other room will have same song playing. Any way to achieve different song for different rooms with this AVR Zone system we have.

Regards
Sammy
sam9s is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 09-09-2013, 07:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 340
If you have three sources connected to the AVR that can deliver the content, then any AVR with Zone2 / Zone3 output will work. The Zone outputs can select any source regardless of what Zone1 is using (same or different source).

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht

jautor is online now  
post #3 of 23 Old 09-09-2013, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks Jautor, but no I dont have different source, source is same my NAS, which has the entire collection. Anyway even if I decide to dedicate a different source say my ipod or WD TV (with a USB HDD) connected to AVR, How would different rooms have independent track and volume control. Let me also add I am ready to shell out a very nominal cost (300-400 USD) if this can be achieved via dedicated hardware ........

Regards
Sammy
sam9s is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 09-10-2013, 12:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 340
NAS is storage, not a source. An AVR with DLNA playback from the NAS library would be a source. If you want three things playing at once from that NAS library, you need more devices (sources) that can pull from that library.

Easy solution at $350 is a Sonos Connect.

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht

jautor is online now  
post #5 of 23 Old 09-10-2013, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
for me NAS is also my source, Synology DS413j has Audio out via USB which I connect to my AVR via FiiO E10 USB DAC. So for me my NAS is my main source.I dont use DLNA or UPnP to play music. Its all wired connection. Yes if I am listening from my mobile I sometimes take the advantage of UPnP but even then I prefer playing music via LMS.

Anyway with this info, what do you suggest ........

I will look in to sonos connect ....

again thanks for your responses.

Regards
Sammy
sam9s is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 09-10-2013, 09:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam9s View Post

for me NAS is also my source, Synology DS413j has Audio out via USB which I connect to my AVR via FiiO E10 USB DAC.

So you have a music server... biggrin.gif

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht

jautor is online now  
post #7 of 23 Old 09-10-2013, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Yes music server kind off ... smile.gif, though I will still call is a NAS as storage is still its primary purpose.(Though it can do a lot more than just act as a storage and backup device..) I checked sonos its not a music distribution system, its more of a music streaming device, in that sense I already have a
SqueezeBox Touch. My requirement is something to have separate songs playing in different room and the ability to change track and/or source, volume from the room itself using the the AVR zone system or a dedicated
Multiroom distribution system if its is not more than 400 USD max.

Regards
Sammy
sam9s is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 09-10-2013, 11:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam9s View Post

Yes music server kind off ... smile.gif, though I will still call is a NAS as storage is still its primary purpose.(Though it can do a lot more than just act as a storage and backup device..)

Using the best terminology to describe the relevant functionality is important when seeking advice...
Quote:
I checked sonos its not a music distribution system,

Yes, it is. Each Sonos Connect unit also has an analog source input, which it can distribute to any other Sonos device.
Quote:
its more of a music streaming device, in that sense I already have a SqueezeBox Touch. My requirement is something to have separate songs playing in different room and the ability to change track and/or source, volume from the room itself using the the AVR zone system or a dedicated
Multiroom distribution system if its is not more than 400 USD max.

Additional Squeezebox Touch units?

Sonos Connect would also do that. Controlled from any mobile device. And would give you a number of Internet sources in addition to playing content from your NAS (the storage part biggrin.gif)...

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht

jautor is online now  
post #9 of 23 Old 09-11-2013, 09:58 AM
Member
 
adk highlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Whiteface
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 16
You should check out Vortexbox.org. A Vortexbox when configured using USB DAC's can output up to 5 streams of stored content or from a variety of streaming services. I used an old PC and now have 4 zones up and running with about 30 dollars invested for a couple of inexpensive DAC's. It runs Logitech Media Server software so your touch can be integrated very easily. It auto rips CD's to FLAC and will mirror to MP3/itunes/WMA files.

I use the Orange Sqeeze app to control the system. Each DAC connects directly to its zone amp and I can control all zones via the app or sync them into any combination. The app works similar to Sonos.

I'm not sure how tied you are to your existing music server. This will also do DLNA and is share-able across Windows and Mac networks. I do computer work for a living but am not a Linux person but found all of the setup and config to be very easy due to the great documentation over at Vortexbox.org.
adk highlander is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 09-12-2013, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
^^ Now this seems an actual suggestion, ........... I checked Vortexbox and it does seem an interesting option. Can you shed some more light as to how you achieved this. I do have an old PC a C2D that I can use for this purpose. What DACs did you purchase and how did you connect it to PC (running vortex box). When you say each DAC is directly connected to its Zone Amp, which zone amp are we talking about here. I know lot of questions, but some info would put me in to the right direction.

Thanks for your input
Regards
Sammy
sam9s is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 09-12-2013, 06:25 AM
Member
 
adk highlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Whiteface
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Hi Sam,

The old PC must have at least 1GB of RAM and that was the only spec I had to deal with. I scrounged up some more RAM and then I was ready to go. Download the vortexbox iso from here : LINK Then once you have it downloaded burn it to CD. I use Windows burn image to disk but if you are using an old version of windows just do a quick search and there are several free pieces of software.

Insert the disk and let if fly. Once it is done it will give you an ip address and you use the Web GUI for most of your configuration.

Once done I found it on my network and transferred all my Flac files to the correct directory.

I am using a variety of USB DAC's. For my critical listening I have a HRT music streamer to my theater zone. For the other zones I am using one of the recommended DAC's they sell from Small green computers (15 bucks + shipping) and a couple of Turtle beach Amigo II's.

Once the DAC's are connected they will show up in the vortexbox hardware list. You then configure each vortex player in the web gui to go to which USB DAC.

The in the Web GUI go to Logictech Music Server and view your players and finish configuring them. You will create an account at mysqueezbox.com to add your apps to your players.

To control from your mobile devices download the logictech squeeze play for free or I use OrangeSqeeze which I think has a better user interface for $2.99.

The analog outputs from these DAC's go to:

Music streamer (theater zone)-> AV7005 prepro -> using prepro volume control for bitperfect playback
Noname DAC (garage) -> Speakercraft BB50 -> using player volume control to amp. Not as high quality sound but with in ceiling speakers it is not as critical
Amigo DAC (house zones)-> Onkyo amp -> player volume control.
Amigo DAC (outdoor zone) - Onkyo amp -> player voume control

I think that gets to all of your questions. There are some other tweaks that I did during this process that are listed on the vortexbox wiki (setting static IP, freezing DAC hardware list) but those can be done later.
sam9s likes this.
adk highlander is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 09-12-2013, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks adk for the details reply, really appreciate the effort. ,................ I almost understand the entire part ..... few things I am still confused ...

1. How are multiple DACs connected to the PC (running Votexbox), Do we need to have a separate sound card on the PC, if yes how can multiple DACs be connected to a single sound card.

2. Analogue out from the dac is going through 4 zones with apms so this means we have to purchase "n" separate stereo amps to be placed in "n" different zones, is that how it is???, if yes then dont you think
this is going to land very expensive as we have to purchase independent separate stereo amps to be placed in different zones.

3.What if I have to connect single source (here let say VB), single DAC and distribute audio in different zones (able to play different songs from that same single source) ...??? Possible

I have downloaded VB, and will try it on my VM and see how it goes, if its impressive I will install it on a dedicated server and move on from there,...
sam9s is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 09-12-2013, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam9s View Post

2. Analogue out from the dac is going through 4 zones with apms so this means we have to purchase "n" separate stereo amps to be placed in "n" different zones, is that how it is???, if yes then dont you think this is going to land very expensive as we have to purchase independent separate stereo amps to be placed in different zones.

There is no way around that. The amplifier(s) take one signal in, and amplify it. If you want different things (sources) playing in different rooms at the same time, you must have separate amps for each zone. Now, there are multi-channel distribution amps that can do that in one "box", but that won't be cheaper than a set of inexpensive stereo amps.
Quote:
3.What if I have to connect single source (here let say VB), single DAC and distribute audio in different zones (able to play different songs from that same single source) ...??? Possible

No. Again, a "source" is something that plays a single output of music at one time. Having three DAC / sound card setups gives you three sources (all pulling content from the same NAS library).
sam9s likes this.

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht

jautor is online now  
post #14 of 23 Old 09-12-2013, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

No. Again, a "source" is something that plays a single output of music at one time. Having three DAC / sound card setups gives you three sources (all pulling content from the same NAS library).

Okaieee .... mmmm got it I think, but how are we suppose to connect those three DACs with that single PC running votexbox. I presume votexbox is the one that will controll the distribution of music going through those DACs. which in turn are connected to 3 seperate stereo amps in 3 different room.

If I am too confused a diagram might help I presume .. biggrin.gif
sam9s is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 09-12-2013, 02:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam9s View Post

Okaieee .... mmmm got it I think, but how are we suppose to connect those three DACs with that single PC running votexbox. I presume votexbox is the one that will controll the distribution of music going through those DACs. which in turn are connected to 3 seperate stereo amps in 3 different room.

From ADK's post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by adk highlander View Post

A Vortexbox when configured using USB DAC's can output up to 5 streams of stored content or from a variety of streaming services.

You set up the software with essentially multiple "player/streamer" instances each outputting on its own sound card/DAC. Same answer as one of the commercial music servers which have 3+ sets of outputs.

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht

jautor is online now  
post #16 of 23 Old 09-13-2013, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have to actually install vortebox and see what exactly do we mean by "set up the software with essentially multiple "player/streamer" instances each outputting on its own sound card/DAC" ........coz the PC initself will have only one sound card
sam9s is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 09-13-2013, 10:03 AM
Member
 
adk highlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Whiteface
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Hi Sam,

Sorry crazy day here. There are inexpensive USB soundcards/DAC's that you can plug into any usb port. Once installed you can set up a "player" for each USB DAC which will play its own stream from your library or from an app (pandora etc.) You can also split a sound card's 7.1 ouputs to be separate zones but that is much more complex setup. I will see if I can do a diagram or try and do better explaining once I get done with my next meeting.
sam9s likes this.
adk highlander is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 09-16-2013, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Ok I was able to install VB on VM, was able to configure basic settings. was also able to instal LMS. I had my FiiO USB dac connected to the VB machine as a test. The default player window for VB players is below.



Now I am not sure if this is what was required I was able to hear the music from my spk connected to FiiO, via LMS, that showed player1 as the default player. However the volume was toooo low. Though all the vol of the spk and the DAC was full. Now I tried to add a player which can out put a separate music file from the default audio out of the PC (the green stereo out) (not via USB DAC.) I went through the guide but couldn't understand much. According to the guide as per the below para ..
Quote:
Logitech Media Server and VortexBox Player: VortexBox works great with Logitech Squeezebox devices, and has a built-in Logitech Media Server(external link). You can even play audio directly from your VortexBox's sound card with the prebundled software package Vortexbox Player or an add-on DAC by visiting the LMS page http://vortexbox:9000.(external link) (If you cannot configure audio from the DAC, login to your VortexBox, type aplay -L in a terminal and choose the right sound device for your system, e.g. "hw:CARD=CMI8768,DEV=0", and paste that under "Audio Device" on http://vortexbox/vortexbox-player.php.(external link) Generally, typing "hw:0,0" or "hw:1,0" may not work, but issues with DACs can be quickly resolved by using the output from aplay -L and restarting Logitech Media Server.)

The out put of my aplay -L commend on VB is as follows ..



But I couldnt make out what is what or which is the out put for my PC default audio out.

Can some one help me add a player and configue VB to play different music stream simultaniously ..

Regards
Sammy
sam9s is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 09-16-2013, 12:04 PM
Member
 
adk highlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Whiteface
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 16
For what your screenshots show you are only showing your internal sound card and not the USB DAC. In screen shot one it shows Ensoniq audiopci which is your internal PCI sound card and not a USB DAC. I would plug in to the green output on the computer and see if you get sound.

If both are showing up you will see them in the list on the player page and it would show up under the Ensoniq listing. If you see an IRQ value then it is an internal card and not a USB device.

That USB device is a headphone amp and not one I have used so I am not 100% sure of compatibility although if it does not use a driver it should work. If you reboot and it shows up in the list on the player page. Here is a link to the how to wiki page which seems to be gone form the main site's links: http://info.vortexbox.org/tiki-index.php?page=Howto

I used the retain hardware list to keep my devices from changing order. That will show you what a USB device will show up like in the hardware list. Also if you are using the player volume you much check the softvolume check box on the player page.
adk highlander is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 09-16-2013, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by adk highlander View Post

For what your screenshots show you are only showing your internal sound card and not the USB DAC. In screen shot one it shows Ensoniq audiopci which is your internal PCI sound card and not a USB DAC. I would plug in to the green output on the computer and see if you get sound.

If both are showing up you will see them in the list on the player page and it would show up under the Ensoniq listing. If you see an IRQ value then it is an internal card and not a USB device.

That USB device is a headphone amp and not one I have used so I am not 100% sure of compatibility although if it does not use a driver it should work. If you reboot and it shows up in the list on the player page. Here is a link to the how to wiki page which seems to be gone form the main site's links: http://info.vortexbox.org/tiki-index.php?page=Howto

I used the retain hardware list to keep my devices from changing order. That will show you what a USB device will show up like in the hardware list. Also if you are using the player volume you much check the softvolume check box on the player page.

That is strange, if VB is using only the internal sound card and not the USB DAC, as confirmed by the screen shot, how is it that I can hear music from the spks connected to USB DAC coming from LMS Player1. Player page does not show two entries, only the one I shared in the screen shot above.
I connected the spks from the PC Green audio out as you said and I was able to hear music from the spks ... (but again tooo low volume.) If I put a check mark on soft vol I dont hear anything, sound is gone all together.

The USB device is an Headphone amp cum USB DAC as it also has Coaxial out and line out along with headphone out.

Not sure how to proceed from here ... I will be doing some more RnD on this ....
sam9s is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old 09-17-2013, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Ok this is strange ................ what I did this time was ... under VM audio settings I manually chose FiiO USB DAC as audio out put and then started the VB VM. and to my surprise nothing changed, same entry in the VB player window, and same out put of aplay -L command. Though I could hear the music from spk albeit with a too low volume ....

since I changed the audio out specifically VB should have displayed the USB DAC in player now. However I am baffeled that I still can hear music from the spk connected to FiiO irespective of what sound card I choose in VM settings .......... VB player window shows the same player what ever I do ........confused.gifconfused.gif
sam9s is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 09-21-2013, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
sam9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I presume there is a dearth of advice from this point on ..... I have to somehow manage to understand myself with help from google uncle only.
sam9s is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 09-22-2013, 08:26 AM
Member
 
adk highlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Whiteface
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 16
To me it looks like your USB Dac is not supported. I don't know how you could set the VB player to use the DAC if it is not in the list. None of your screen shots show the DAC. Only the sound card. As to why you hear output from that it could be if you set the plughw 0,0 then it is going to use the default sound card (or first in the list). As to why it is low volume well if you don't select the soft volume to yes, you will not be able to adjust the volume properly if going directly to an amp. If it is going to a pre make sure the player volume is at 100% and then adjust the pre volume.

On my system each time I add a USB Dac it shows up in the list and I just add another player to the VB player controls. I have never had the issues you are experiencing. I made sure the DAC's I use where in the supported DAC list on the VB forum.

Sorry I can't be more help.
adk highlander is offline  
Reply Home A/V Distribution

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off