Couple questions on matrix switch, sound proof drywall and running xlr cables in walls. - AVS Forum
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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So I have read a lot of posts, but could use some advice on a couple items

hdmi matrix switches. It seems like Atlona and Wyredstorm are the two best. I see the latest generation seem to avoid the "lowest common denominator" issue. With that, which works best dual cat 5/6 or HDBaseT? I suspect the latter, as it passes ir and I believe rs232? This seems a better method than running long runs of hdmi. The alternative is to just have local players?


Second question : any advice on sound proof drywall? I see one offer rf shielding as well, which I guess wouldn't hurt. I would prefer not to use the double drywall method.


Finally, I would like to run xlr cables from my av rack to my living room speaker positions, then connecting these to amps, reducing the length of the speaker cables. I will assume the most shielding I can get, is the best option, what is the best way to terminate them, at the wall near the speakers?

Actually, one other. If I plan on a projector, what cables should I run, to be absolutely future proof? I know power, then at least two cat6 and then another cat 6.


Thank you
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:09 PM
 
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Second question : any advice on sound proof drywall?

Does it really exist?
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I would like to run xlr cables from my av rack to my living room speaker positions, then connecting these to amps, reducing the length of the speaker cables. I will assume the most shielding I can get, is the best option,

The shield doesn't really matter...If they're balanced interconnects, common mode noise is rejected by the differential receiver.
Telephone lines are miles long, they're balanced and not shielded.
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what is the best way to terminate them

...with XLR connectors.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by yetis View Post

hdmi matrix switches. It seems like Atlona and Wyredstorm are the two best. I see the latest generation seem to avoid the "lowest common denominator" issue.

Uh, I don't think so... What do you see that they've added to get around the common denominator negotiation with the source(s)? They have EDID management, which will allow compatible displays/AVRs on the output side to receive surround formats if configured - but that will mean that stereo-only displays will receive no audio...
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With that, which works best dual cat 5/6 or HDBaseT? I suspect the latter, as it passes ir and I believe rs232? This seems a better method than running long runs of hdmi. The alternative is to just have local players?

HDBaseT will be the most reliable of any of the repeater implementations.

Local players are useful for physical media and gaming consoles, for example. And sharing $99 sources on a $2k matrix isn't going to make sense if "cost saving" is the only goal...
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Second question : any advice on sound proof drywall? I see one offer rf shielding as well, which I guess wouldn't hurt. I would prefer not to use the double drywall method.

Mass wins. Engineered drywall systems probably perform as well for voice transmission and other noise, but for theater / audio applications, the double drywall + Green Glue seems to test better. Check the Dedicated Theater forum for a wealth of info from Ted at TheSoundproofingCompany...
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Finally, I would like to run xlr cables from my av rack to my living room speaker positions, then connecting these to amps, reducing the length of the speaker cables. I will assume the most shielding I can get, is the best option, what is the best way to terminate them, at the wall near the speakers?

I would run speaker wires, if not in place of, then in addition to anything line-level so you and future owners have the option to keep the equipment in the rack.
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Actually, one other. If I plan on a projector, what cables should I run, to be absolutely future proof? I know power, then at least two cat6 and then another cat 6.

A flex conduit. Plus 2-3 cat6 and HDMI (depending on the length of the run), all outside the conduit.


Jeff

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Old 10-22-2013, 03:51 AM
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Quietrock.
http://quietrock.com/quietrock-product/quietrock-510

They make a rf shielding 530rf, but I don't know why one would need it.

I have used it and it works really well.
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:30 PM
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I would include Atlona among the best HDMI matrices. Zektor would also be at the top. I would NOT include Wyrestorm.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:53 PM
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I know its not your primary question, but double dry wall with Green Glue was very successful for me. Ceiling with sound clips stops everything from getting upstairs.

Jautor is right: Ted was a great resource.

(one of the few threads I thought I could offer anything constructive! smile.gif )
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetis View Post

hdmi matrix switches. It seems like Atlona and Wyredstorm are the two best. I see the latest generation seem to avoid the "lowest common denominator" issue. With that, which works best dual cat 5/6 or HDBaseT? I suspect the latter, as it passes ir and I believe rs232? This seems a better method than running long runs of hdmi. The alternative is to just have local players?
As pointed out, nobody in the mid-price matrix range has touched compatibility issues across multiple sources. For that you need the actual best and that would be either Extron or Crestron, both of which truly are the best available right now. Blanking issues may have been resolved by some, and limited source handling may also have been addressed, but actual DSP audio conversion and embedding audio and audio breakaway matrixing are only delivered by a few top shelf companies. Atlona would be my preference of a solid mid-tier product, but it won't touch Crestron/Extron.
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Second question : any advice on sound proof drywall? I see one offer rf shielding as well, which I guess wouldn't hurt. I would prefer not to use the double drywall method.
I think the above posts have covered things. I'm not sure if double drywall/green glue can be bested by single drywall.
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Originally Posted by yetis View Post

Finally, I would like to run xlr cables from my av rack to my living room speaker positions, then connecting these to amps, reducing the length of the speaker cables. I will assume the most shielding I can get, is the best option, what is the best way to terminate them, at the wall near the speakers?
Speaker cables are far less prone to picking up noise than line level audio cables, but if you have a preamp with true balanced audio outputs and your amps have true balanced inputs, then you just want to run raw balanced audio cable like Belden 1800F, then terminate it with XLRs as appropriate for the equipment. Typically male on the amp side and female on the preamp side.

This is a good read, and you may want to call BJC about what they can get you...
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/balancedaudio/

Shielded balanced audio cable really doesn't need to amount to much as it is the balanced signal which really should be rejecting the noise. The shielding just helps make it work that much better.
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Actually, one other. If I plan on a projector, what cables should I run, to be absolutely future proof? I know power, then at least two cat6 and then another cat 6.
To be future-proof you run conduit, not more cable. 1.25" or larger Carlon Resigard conduit is what I strongly recommend.

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Old 10-26-2013, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone, very helpful. I think I have most of my questions answered. I now need to look into Crestron gear. I see they now have a DM digital media product that seems compelling and not offensively expensive. I need to talk to some people about integration with my Meridian/Sooloos, which I know is pretty common. I will start a different thread on that, if I need to. However, one question I will need to answer is, how does AMX enova compare to Crestron DM. Seems like a pretty bitter rivalry, which I am sure is addressed in another thread on AVS.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:54 PM
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...how does AMX enova compare to Creston DM. Seems like a pretty bitter rivalry, which I am sure is addressed in another thread on AVS.
I work for one of the largest A/V companies in the nation and we sell the big three - AMX, Crestron, Extron

AMX has issues right now and they haven't figured it out yet.

Extron has been VERY late to the game, but their product works. They don't have as much as Crestron, but their stuff does work and they have some unique solutions, especially in regards to mixed surround/stereo systems (typical).

Crestron is well versed in this by now. They are several years into their product and really have most of their stuff in order. More stupid stuff doesn't work than stuff that matters. I'm not in depth with AMX, but our AMX guys don't like the AMX HDMI solution at all. They have written modules to control Crestron HDMI switchers via Ethernet instead of allowing unreliable AMX switchers into the AMX systems, and they are also happy to have Extron.

So, at this time (and only at this time), I'm not comfortable recommending AMX HDMI matrices. Crestron or Extron are the way to go at the top end, and they offer some really unique solutions which integrate very well or can stand alone nicely.

Need the iRule module for Crestron DM systems. biggrin.gif

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:23 PM
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Need the iRule module for Crestron DM systems. biggrin.gif

That obviously requires the Champagne-colored iPhone, right? biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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Old 11-02-2013, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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So a couple follow up questions:

1) What is the difference between fiber and HDbaseT. I will admit I haven't gotten too deep into pricing, but if one is going with four zones of HD video distribution, why NOT go with fiber vs HDbaseT? Seems like Crestron, AMX and Savant all offer both, in the same config, Also, are all the fiber connections the same between Crestron/AMX and Savant?

2) Multi stand cable runs, Why no cat 6 multi runs? So when I wired my apartment up I was able to by a bulk wire that had two runs of cat5e and two runs of speaker cable, all bundled up. I see that Crestron does the same thing, in several configs. However, I don't see anyone run multi strands of cat 6. Is there any reason to buy Crestron cable, can there be any difference?

Thank you
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by yetis View Post

1) What is the difference between fiber and HDbaseT. I will admit I haven't gotten too deep into pricing, but if one is going with four zones of HD video distribution, why NOT go with fiber vs HDbaseT? Seems like Crestron, AMX and Savant all offer both, in the same config, Also, are all the fiber connections the same between Crestron/AMX and Savant?

Because that category cable is cheap, and useful for tons of other things, and more likely to be compatible with other things in the future.
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2) Multi stand cable runs, Why no cat 6 multi runs? So when I wired my apartment up I was able to by a bulk wire that had two runs of cat5e and two runs of speaker cable, all bundled up. I see that Crestron does the same thing, in several configs. However, I don't see anyone run multi strands of cat 6. Is there any reason to buy Crestron cable, can there be any difference?

Specialized multi-cable runs are expensive, hard to work with, and usually "not the right mix" of wire types.

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Old 11-03-2013, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks

So for fiber, is there any benefit for short runs? Less lag, higher quality transmission?

Thank you
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:43 AM
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So for fiber, is there any benefit for short runs? Less lag, higher quality transmission?

No. Electrical signals run over copper near the speed of light... I would never install fiber unless the gear or specific situation (distance) demanded it.

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