Need some advice on pre-wiring for my set-up - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 5 Old 02-02-2014, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm in the process of renovations and will have many walls opened up and full access to areas of my home that I will not have again when the finished rock is installed. I've been reading alot on WHA and know I want to get there eventually but not sure how far I want to take it at this moment but would like to run the appropriate wires to all locations to give me plenty of options in the future for high end with keypads or just stick with the simplest multi-zone set-up with a speaker selector if I choose??

My set up is as follows right now,Denon AVR-4520CI located in a hall closet/media room that's currently being used for my 7.2 set-up in my living room.Along with my BD Player, 400disc changer, sat boxes, internet modem etc.

I have my older Marantz SR7300 5.1/6.1 AVR that possibly may be able to incorporate into the mix if possible?? Not sure if it would be more of a PITA then what its worth though ??

I'm looking to have speakers in the ceiling or walls ? in the following areas when complete and know I should run home runs to each speaker right to my media closet but that's about all I know for sure right now.

First floor
Master Bedroom/bath/closet area, all going to be pretty much an open floor plan.
Small Hallway
Kitchen / laundry room
Guestroom
Second Floor
Bedroom 1
Small Hallway
Bedroom 2

And the backyard patio area

I've read allot about stereo (2)channel speakers but can someone tell me what size room would benefit from either going that route or not ? Ive seen baths, hallways and maybe smaller rooms but nothing definitive in room size, may be getting a bit picky?? Or I can just run 4C speaker wire to all locations to play it safe.

Keypads would be cool I think ? never really seen them in a home, app control from a phone would be sufficient to start with as well or just VC's in each area for now as well but I would like to have it wired for either option for the future. Would I need a Cat5 loop to all potential keypad locations or a homerun to the media closet from each location as well ??

Any help and recommendations are appreciated.
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post #2 of 5 Old 02-02-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

I've been reading alot on WHA and know I want to get there eventually but not sure how far I want to take it at this moment but would like to run the appropriate wires to all locations to give me plenty of options in the future for high end with keypads or just stick with the simplest multi-zone set-up with a speaker selector if I choose??

Since you'll be running wires and have access - run everything you can now per the CEA standard for WHA and you'll be set for any of the systems. You can start with simple volume controls or mobile apps, and add a full WHA system later. So home-run the speaker wires, loop them through a keypad/VC location, and run a cat5e in parallel.
Quote:
My set up is as follows right now,Denon AVR-4520CI located in a hall closet/media room that's currently being used for my 7.2 set-up in my living room.Along with my BD Player, 400disc changer, sat boxes, internet modem etc.

I have my older Marantz SR7300 5.1/6.1 AVR that possibly may be able to incorporate into the mix if possible?? Not sure if it would be more of a PITA then what its worth though ??

For WHA or zones you just need a stereo setup - but an old AVR can do that job easily. The remote control of both the amp/AVR and the sources is what makes the system "usable" or not... Which is where older gear shows its age - lack of mobile apps, etc. that make it possible to browse content, provide 2-way feedback and so on...
Quote:
I'm looking to have speakers in the ceiling or walls ? in the following areas when complete and know I should run home runs to each speaker right to my media closet but that's about all I know for sure right now.

First floor
Master Bedroom/bath/closet area, all going to be pretty much an open floor plan.
Small Hallway
Kitchen / laundry room
Guestroom
Second Floor
Bedroom 1
Small Hallway
Bedroom 2

And the backyard patio area

Home run everything, make sure there's a keypad location in each zone, too. I'll suggest skipping the hallways - unless you have a huge house and want that for entertaining - do you really want to dedicate a zone for those? IMO, hallway speakers are for commercial environments and dentists' offices... biggrin.gif
Quote:
I've read allot about stereo (2)channel speakers but can someone tell me what size room would benefit from either going that route or not ? Ive seen baths, hallways and maybe smaller rooms but nothing definitive in room size, may be getting a bit picky?? Or I can just run 4C speaker wire to all locations to play it safe.

Dual-voice-coil (DVC) speakers are stereo and need 4-conductor wire anyway. They are used for small areas where you can't place two speakers, say, 4 feet apart.
Quote:
Keypads would be cool I think ? never really seen them in a home, app control from a phone would be sufficient to start with as well or just VC's in each area for now as well but I would like to have it wired for either option for the future. Would I need a Cat5 loop to all potential keypad locations or a homerun to the media closet from each location as well ??

Just a home-run from the potential keypad location back to the media closet. Doesn't need to go on to the speakers.

Jeff

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post #3 of 5 Old 02-02-2014, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Since you'll be running wires and have access - run everything you can now per the CEA standard for WHA and you'll be set for any of the systems. You can start with simple volume controls or mobile apps, and add a full WHA system later. So home-run the speaker wires, loop them through a keypad/VC location, and run a cat5e in parallel.
For WHA or zones you just need a stereo setup - but an old AVR can do that job easily. The remote control of both the amp/AVR and the sources is what makes the system "usable" or not... Which is where older gear shows its age - lack of mobile apps, etc. that make it possible to browse content, provide 2-way feedback and so on...
Home run everything, make sure there's a keypad location in each zone, too. I'll suggest skipping the hallways - unless you have a huge house and want that for entertaining - do you really want to dedicate a zone for those? IMO, hallway speakers are for commercial environments and dentists' offices... biggrin.gif
Dual-voice-coil (DVC) speakers are stereo and need 4-conductor wire anyway. They are used for small areas where you can't place two speakers, say, 4 feet apart.
Just a home-run from the potential keypad location back to the media closet. Doesn't need to go on to the speakers.

Jeff

Thanks for the detailed fast reply Jeff, so let me just run a few quick verification's by you...

1. The cat5/cat6 run from each keypad location back to the media closet is all I would need for communications for most newer sytems out there.(1 homerun only??)
2. Run whatever speaker wires for each zone directly to the key pad first then out to those zone speaker/speakers(or just leave a loop at that keypad location for now until needed)
3.How feasible(sound quality mainly) is it to just use 1-DVC speaker in all zones for estetics/cost, especially if rooms are just 12x14 or so? Eitherway I plan on running 2 - 4c speaker wires to each keypad to be safe.
4. I'm assuming sketched pictures of the rooms I referring to for placement would/could help in this thread before running wires from Keypad location to actual potential speaker locations?

And that you've mentioned the hallway thing I pretty much agree.cool.gif
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post #4 of 5 Old 02-02-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

1. The cat5/cat6 run from each keypad location back to the media closet is all I would need for communications for most newer sytems out there.(1 homerun only??)

Correct. One category cable from each keypad. That is a completely separate run from any other cat5e/cat6 use in each room. Meaning, if you're running wires for Ethernet, etc. to the rooms, this is in addition to that...
Quote:
2. Run whatever speaker wires for each zone directly to the key pad first then out to those zone speaker/speakers(or just leave a loop at that keypad location for now until needed)

Correct.
Quote:
3.How feasible(sound quality mainly) is it to just use 1-DVC speaker in all zones for estetics/cost, especially if rooms are just 12x14 or so?

Yuck.

12x14 is not a small room. A half-bath or something less than 8x8-ish is where DVCs come into play. Don't use them unless you really have to.
Quote:
Eitherway I plan on running 2 - 4c speaker wires to each keypad to be safe.

You only need one 4-conductor cable home run to the keypad. Then two 2-conductor cables from there to each speaker location.
Quote:
4. I'm assuming sketched pictures of the rooms I referring to for placement would/could help in this thread before running wires from Keypad location to actual potential speaker locations?

picture = 1000 words

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post #5 of 5 Old 02-02-2014, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Meaning, if you're running wires for Ethernet, etc. to the rooms, this is in addition to that...

Absolutely understand, most of my Ethernet cabling and such has been ran in the past already.
Quote:
12x14 is not a small room. A half-bath or something less than 8x8-ish is where DVCs come into play. Don't use them unless you really have to.

Ok, sounds like a plan.So it seems best layout would be separate L/R channel 2 or 3 way speakers is the way to go, now I just have to decide if ceiling speakers is my way to go, alot easier for the WAF to be in the ceiling and not in the way of decor on the walls....
Quote:
You only need one 4-conductor cable home run to the keypad. Then two 2-conductor cables from there to each speaker location.

10-4 I was just thinking on covering all bases with DVC speakers but that wont be needed anywhere except possibly in the master Bdrm bath/shower area maybe ? Can one zone "mstr bdrm" have a pair in the bedroom and the 1 DVC in the bath/shower area ??

Well, eventually I'll be getting to the keypads and a complete WHA system (may be sooner then I think) but until then I'll be able to wire things up in a number of different DIY ways.

Thanks, for all your help, any specific WHA systems you can recommend that are DIY friendly in regards to configuration/programming and at the same time have room to grow and utilize or link to my new Denon 4520ci AVR for sourcing and streaming audio? I think I would rather do a complete new addition to my new AVR rather then try to incorporate my older Marantz AVR ?

Eventually I'll sketch some things up or take a few photos and post them when needed.....
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