What control system to use? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
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New home construction with basement great room HT, 5-HDTV zones and 6 audio zones. Wiring not an issue, have a great A/V sub that does very clean work. CAT6 everywhere, smurf tubing for future, etc. All wiring home runs to A/V rack in basement mechanical room (front opens into great room), lots of room to work in mech rm. I do not want a control system that requires hours of programing and life connection back to a programmer. I'm also not a tech person who knows or enjoys programming, so KISS is my goal. The A/V has recommended Sonos, but that is not a system with control choices. I have read here about Aton, simple with wall controls. A/V sub has recommended DirecTV Genie for control of HDTV zones. Would like feedback/recommendations.

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post #2 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 07:24 AM
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You don't say who lives in this home and their usage patterns which makes suggestions a little more general.

 

Sonos is great if you want to distribute and control audio only.  Beyond that (Video / Lighting / Security / HVAC) it does nothing for you.  It has the advantage of being user programable / setup wizard.

 

For your situation I'm a big fan and user of Control4.

 

  • Your 6 audio zones would run on their 8 zone matrix amp
  • Control with an HC800 which would give you enough audio outputs to have different tunes in different rooms.  Also a good zigbee wifi to run the remote controls.
  • It controls DirectTV Geni (they have a partnership agreement with Direct TV)
  • If you want Sonos, then the Extra Vegetables driver for Sonos integrates that pretty seamlessly.  Naitivly it supports MP3/MP4 iTunes files (unencrypted), Rhapsody and TuneIn.
  • You would want SR250s and SR150s for the TV zones (wand style TV remotes)
  • It can be controlled over Android or iPad / iPhone (great for music functionality)
  • The UI is standardized and the setup of the initial connectivity is pretty quick and simple for the dealer.  You / the dealer can then start with lots more functionality as time goes on.
  • Once set up the UI is intuitive and fits your KISS mentality

 

The code base for your project is stored on the controller unencrypted so you are not married to a programmer for life in fact you can get remote assistance from any dealer you let into the project.

 

You do not say if only Direct TV is wanted at each of the TVs.  If you are in a Cable TV area then getting TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini does a similar thing without needing to rent the boxes from the cable / sat co and the TiVo Mini also does many streaming services like Netflix and Amazon and Pandora to give lots of functionality to a TV screen from one box.

 

Likely equipment

  • A decent router (this is critical as so much of the control is over IP)
  • 5x SR250s, one for each TV (this will be the only remote you need for those TVs)
  • HC800 to control it all (though a HC250 would do this job but have less audio out (maybe the route if you want sonos)
  • 8x8 Matrix Amp

 

Desirable Addons

  • UPS
  • Rack
  • Power management
  • Sonos

 

Potential Addons

  • Maybe need a few light switches to extend the zigbee matrix (and give you some lighting control as a bonus) depending on the size of the property.
  • In wall Keypads / touchscreens (can be retrofit, use zigbee or wifi and can steal power from the lightswitch)
  • Thermostat to integrate HVAC
  • Device to integrate Security System (usually a serial interface provided by your alarm installer)
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post #3 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff- I've chatted with you before and now the house is under construction. You recommended to use the DirecTV distribution system for video, simple and easy to wire. You recommended the Aton system for video distribution, again simple to wire and no long term programming. The A/V sub is good, seen his work and very reasonable cost figures. HT (25'x15'x9' section open end) is in my great room (64'x15'x9') in the basement with a 12'x9'x12" island riser. A/V cabinet in mechanical room opens into great room, vented and well lighted.

Wiring: home run A/V cab
HT; 2-14/2 each speaker, 2-12/2 or RG6 each sub, 2-HDMI & 2-CAT6 projector. Lighting/controls still working.

Video: 5-6 zones; 2-RG6 & 2 CAT6 each zone, DirecTV Genie system

Audio: 6-7 zones; 16/4 each speaker set, 2-CAT6 wall, CAT6 or 16/2 wall to speaker?

Future: smurf tubing; attic to mechanical room & mechanical room to projector

Do not want all the other home automation, thus no runs. Can I get your feedback/recommendations?

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post #4 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

The A/V has recommended Sonos, but that is not a system with control choices. I have read here about Aton, simple with wall controls. A/V sub has recommended DirecTV Genie for control of HDTV zones. Would like feedback/recommendations.

None of those are "control systems"... They are individual products that serve their own purpose, and have their own methods for "controlling" themselves. A control system implies an integrated solution to unify all of those products together. Those systems fall into either the "professionally installed and programmed" or "heavy DIY tinkering" camp. It doesn't sound like you want either of those - which is fine.

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You recommended to use the DirecTV distribution system for video, simple and easy to wire.

Either DirecTV or your local cableco can get you a good whole-house DVR setup - and as SMH suggested, if you go cable, the TiVo route is even better than the stuff the cableco provides themselves.
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You recommended the Aton system for video distribution, again simple to wire and no long term programming.

If you use the 'good' gear from the sat/cable guys, you won't need that... Unless there's something else you need to distribute. But it's absolutely good to have the wiring in place to allow for it, which it sounds like you'll have.
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Wiring: home run A/V cab
HT; 2-14/2 each speaker, 2-12/2 or RG6 each sub, 2-HDMI & 2-CAT6 projector. Lighting/controls still working.

Video: 5-6 zones; 2-RG6 & 2 CAT6 each zone, DirecTV Genie system

Audio: 6-7 zones; 16/4 each speaker set, 2-CAT6 wall, CAT6 or 16/2 wall to speaker?

Future: smurf tubing; attic to mechanical room & mechanical room to projector

Looks good. 16/2 to speakers from your wall plate, no need for cat6 to speakers. One cat6 to the keypad location is probably sufficient - I'd rather you spend that budget on additional cat6 drops elsewhere...
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Do not want all the other home automation, thus no runs. Can I get your feedback/recommendations?

I would bury some cat6 wires to 'obvious' locations around the house where a wall-mounted touchscreen would go... You may not want home automation now, but as that stuff becomes more mainstream (aka cheap!), we all might change our minds about them! biggrin.gif

Jeff
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post #5 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post


None of those are "control systems"... They are individual products that serve their own purpose, and have their own methods for "controlling" themselves. A control system implies an integrated solution to unify all of those products together. Those systems fall into either the "professionally installed and programmed" or "heavy DIY tinkering" camp. It doesn't sound like you want either of those - which is fine.

Jeff

Jeff makes a great point here.  What is your end goal?

 

Do you want to open up the Sonos app on your phone for distributed audio.

Use the Direct TV remote for the TV, TV Speaker Volume (no back connection to the ceiling speakers) and Direct TV box, a separate remote for the AVR, BluRay etc

 

Or do you want a single app to control it all and a single remote control for each room etc.

 

If the former then the Direct TV and Sonos boxes solves your problems.  If the latter, which is a pretty easy setup for Control4 and not weeks of expensive programming you should think about going down that route.

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post #6 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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You don't say who lives in this home and their usage patterns which makes suggestions a little more general.

2-Wife & myself, she is a non tech person (KISS)
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Sonos is great if you want to distribute and control audio only. Beyond that (Video / Lighting / Security / HVAC) it does nothing for you. It has the advantage of being user programmable / setup wizard. For your situation I'm a big fan and user of Control4.

Sonos is not my choice, does not allow enough control of audio system. Video would be DirecTV (football package). I've looked at Control 4 and input to A/V sub.
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You do not say if only Direct TV is wanted at each of the TVs. If you are in a Cable TV area then getting TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini does a similar thing without needing to rent the boxes from the cable / sat co and the TiVo Mini also does many streaming services like Netflix and Amazon and Pandora to give lots of functionality to a TV screen from one box.

No cable, in remote rural area in Idaho! Internet is even a challenge.
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Desirable Addons
•UPS
•Rack
•Power management
•Sonos

A/V cabinet in mechanical room, rack with power conditioner for all HT equipment, each floor speakers & subs have wall protection. 20 amp dedicated circuit for HT, separate 15 amp circuit for all lighting and outlets HT.
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None of those are "control systems"... They are individual products that serve their own purpose, and have their own methods for "controlling" themselves. A control system implies an integrated solution to unify all of those products together. Those systems fall into either the "professionally installed and programmed" or "heavy DIY tinkering" camp. It doesn't sound like you want either of those - which is fine.

No, I do not want that kind of system. Audio would be controlled example; from the Aton family (key pad control with one source control in the A/V cabinet). Video control from the DirecTV Genie.
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Jeff makes a great point here. What is your end goal?

End goal, if it's not KISS then the wife does not use it! Both of you should know by now, "Unhappy wife, unhappy LIFE".

I will look into Control 4 and talk with the A/V sub. Would Aton equipment be used for my audio requirements or Control 4?? I know Jeff is a Aton user.

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post #7 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Wiring 9.2 HT, would you use 16/2-14/2-12/2 for speakers? Would you use 12/2 or RG6 for the subs? Would you run 2 each of your choice or 1 to each? Projector is greater than 25' and less than 50' from A/V cabinet. Is there a difference in HDMI cable for that distance? I know over 50' better to use CAT6 than HDMI, correct?

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post #8 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

Sonos is not my choice, does not allow enough control of audio system.

How so?

Keep your whole house audio requirements separate from your theater system. Assume an AVR will take care of your theater, the question will be what do you want to do for the rest of the room(s). What sources are you planning for the other rooms?
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Would Aton equipment be used for my audio requirements or Control 4?? I know Jeff is a Aton user.

Actually, I'm only using Aton for video distribution, but I do like their stuff. However, their audio gear is just the infrastructure, not the sources. Gotta figure out those sources, too, as controlling them is key. Which is why Sonos works so well from mobile devices.
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Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

Wiring 9.2 HT, would you use 16/2-14/2-12/2 for speakers? Would you use 12/2 or RG6 for the subs? Would you run 2 each of your choice or 1 to each? Projector is greater than 25' and less than 50' from A/V cabinet. Is there a difference in HDMI cable for that distance? I know over 50' better to use CAT6 than HDMI, correct?

For an HT I'd use 12/2 RG6 (actually RG59 is better for subwoofers, but probably not enough to worry about) for the sub(s) locations.

To the projector - conduit, probably a Redmere HDMI cable or Blue Jeans one for >25', plus 2-3 cat6.


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post #9 of 28 Old 05-06-2014, 08:50 PM
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A KISS method would be a professionally programmed controller via URC, RTI, Crestron, Control4, etc.
Make sure the programmer/installer can deliver a properly designed and programmed system, and that will give you a very simple and easy way to control a complex equipment set-up.
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post #10 of 28 Old 05-07-2014, 04:03 AM - Thread Starter
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How so?

My plan is to have three separate systems; HT, audio & video. The only crossover is DirecTV Genie (video) sending to HT. Audio is my 6-7 zone music, this is my third separate system. I wish to have control of volume and choice of input to that zone. Input is HDTV sound, PS3 (250 CD's), wife's music on iPad. I would think this is a keypad & choice pad?
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Which is why Sonos works so well from mobile devices.

I thought Sonos is only volume control and not source choice controller?

Did not answer the HT speaker wire; use 12/2 or 14/2 for speakers? I'll use 12/2 for subs.

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A KISS method would be a professionally programmed controller via URC, RTI, Crestron, Control4, etc.

KISS for whom, I'm tied to the programmer for life. For a non tech person isn't this high end economics, equipment and programming. But, my A/V sub likes URC. Is URC a control system that's tied back to the programmer?

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post #11 of 28 Old 05-07-2014, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post


My plan is to have three separate systems; HT, audio & video. The only crossover is DirecTV Genie (video) sending to HT. Audio is my 6-7 zone music, this is my third separate system. I wish to have control of volume and choice of input to that zone. Input is HDTV sound, PS3 (250 CD's), wife's music on iPad. I would think this is a keypad & choice pad?
I thought Sonos is only volume control and not source choice controller?

 

You want to KISS this but the proposal above has

1) iPad / Android app for Sonos

2) AVR remote (those things are a disaster), or Harmony remote etc for the AVR zone

3) Remotes for the Direct TV zones.

 

Three separate remote control types, three separate learnings.

 

You also now add the desire to distribute CDs and stream iPad music.

 

As an alternate (and I am sticking with the Control4 because I know it and use it), you have 1 remote control type with less buttons as the button changes context as the device you use changes.

 

http://cdn.avsforum.com/7/72/300x300px-LS-72964969_B0073XFI6I-31nbShCR74L.jpeg

 

Would be the remote to use for each TV zone (or in some of the less used zones the SR150 (with no screen).

 

This will also control audio using Control4 and Sonos if you choose.

 

Control4 also sell an Wireless Media Bridge that will allow your wife to stream music from her iPad to any audio zone automagically.

 

To put Sonos in all those zones will get spendy as you will need an amp for each zone.  To answer the other question Sonos app allows you to select which of your streaming sources (or the source attached to the aux in - but maybe not control that) and the tracks and streaming source (napster, rhapsody, pandora etc).

 

What you really need to make all this work intuitivly is a control system and not to cheap out having run all the cable and all the devices etc, else you will have an HT room that only you can turn on etc.  My living room is an HT zone with a Roku, TiVo, BD, HDMI inputs for Phone / PC, media server, 7.1 SS and TV all operating intuitvly on one remote control.  MrsSMH, MissSMH, MasterSMH all just press the red button on the remote, or the WATCH or LISTEN buttons on the remote and choose what they want, the AVR auto selects the source, which device it is controlling etc.  This can all be done on a Harmony or something but beyond that is where an automation system gets clever and beyond that is what you are planning.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

Did not answer the HT speaker wire; use 12/2 or 14/2 for speakers? I'll use 12/2 for subs.

 

12/2 or 14/2 for speaker wire, either works, depends on the size and price of the speakers on the other end.  If the 12/2 is not much more spend the money.

You can also run 12 or 14/4 and then a 12 or 14/2 whip across the ceiling from left to right which would give less pulls from the room to the AV closet.

 

Are the subs powered or unpowered.  Unpowered would be 12/2.  Poweered needs to get the RCA signal to the SUB from the AVR so you would use RG6 for that run.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post

KISS for whom, I'm tied to the programmer for life. For a non tech person isn't this high end economics, equipment and programming. But, my A/V sub likes URC. Is URC a control system that's tied back to the programmer?

 

With Control4 you are not tied to any programmer for life.  You can get the Composer Home software and do most programming yourself.  As I said before the code base is stored unencrypted on the Control4 system and is drag and drop programming so any Control4 dealer can alter the code and does not need to learn the coding style of the original coder (unlike say Crestron where the code is compiled on they system and the coders can skin cats differently).

 

With composer Home you can even see what code your dealer wrote to join it all up.  Also much of the initial plumbing type code is automagic by just adding the dealer adding the right drivers for the devices and connecting up the map of sources and endpoints (TVs Speakers etc).

 

Once the dealer programs that there is a Direct TV, BD, etc connected to an AVR source 1, 2 etc to the TV then that is all the programming you need for basic day to day operation.  You are not wed to a programmer or dealer for life in the C4 design.

 

Personally I think in your current plan with the way you describe your wifes music usage she will still be listeing to the iPad through the iPad speakers as she cannot access that music through Sonos.  With Control4 she can airplay that to the system and then the system will have a default of the speakers to send to.

 

Have a look at the Control4 website and some of the videos on there of how the music streaming works, the iPad app works and the remotes work etc (also look on youtube).

 

My dealer says his sale is usually to the Wife, the guy already wants the toys, his job is selling that this is a great purchase and will make her life better.  Once that is done it is plain sailing.

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post #12 of 28 Old 05-07-2014, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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SMHarmon, thank you for taking the time to give me a very good explanation of control and programming. If my questions or responses seem lame, it's a big learning curve. I'm not trying to learn to become all-knowing, but how to ask the right question and understand what I want or should get!!

The HT is down to determining projector and screen, how to use my current equipment and wire for the future.

Video is DirecTV Genie, it's a ready made distribution system. Economical up front with a monthly fee. I want to understand what to wire for the future, so I can convert to a video distribution system after all the dust settles from the new house construction.

Audio is 16/4-16/2 wiring, home run to A/V cabinet. After that my issue is what to do?? Wire for wall screens or what?? I do not understand the relationship of Control4 (brain), how it works and ties other elements together. I work much better with a line diagram, a visual tool to see how A works with B and C. My A/V sub likes URC, another brain.
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Are the subs powered or unpowered. Unpowered would be 12/2. Powered needs to get the RCA signal to the SUB from the AVR so you would use RG6 for that run.
My Def Tech L/R are BP 2002TL with 12" powered subs and a Rel T1 sub. So 12/2, is there that much difference using RG6 or RG59? Jautor said there is not much difference.

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post #13 of 28 Old 05-07-2014, 02:43 PM
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Have you considered Dish / Joey / Hopper?  Similar system?

 

It is a learning curve and one I have been going through for 9m- a year right now.

 

A piece of CAT 6 behind each TV is all you need to set up a future proof video distribution, HDBaseT Baluns will then home run the HDMI, IR etc.

 

How does Control4 work?  For what you are doing, it knows what hardware is connected to what and how, basically electronic version of that diagram you are thinking of

 

BD Player > AV1 of AVR > Projector and 9.1

Sonos > Input 1 of 8 Zone Amp > Speaker Zone 1 and 2 and 3 etc.

 

It then also knows how to talk to all of those devices, either by sending IP commands over the internal intranet.  Or by connecting a serial RS232 cable from it to the device (often AVRs and Video Switches and Projectors) or by IR (for all the devices the first two options dont work on).

 

So now you have programmed all that, your system becomes task centric not device centric.  No longer do you have to pick up the BD player remote and turn it on, the AVR remote, the projector remote.  Watch BD will turn all of them on, set the AVR to the right input and set the remote control so that the play / pause etc control the BD player, the volume controls the AVR etc.

 

Similarly with Listen it can put that Sonos into one zone or multiple zones, and if you have a connection from the AVR analog out to the matrix amp then you could send the TV audio to another audio zone etc (say the kitchen during your superbowl party).

 

So basically the Control4 Director, Directs the commands to all the devices to make them work how you wanted.

 

You will still have the same line diagram you are thinking of, BD connects to AVR to projector, just overlay that with Control4 connects to every device like a big star * in the middle.

 

As it connects to everything and can be connected to in multiple ways (touchscreen, inwall keypad (like a 2, 3, 6 or 7 button light swich), wand remote control, phone, iPad then you can also handover command from one device to another.  Say you are in the kitchen, maybe it is easier to pick the music you want to listen to from the iPad using the control4 app.  But now you are using the iPad for a reciepe and want to turn the volume up or down or pause it.  Maybe you have a wand remote in the kitchen you can use for the volume or a keypad on the wall, or you can flip back to the iPad app and adjust it there.

 

And finally because it is all connected you can do handy things like turn the house off before bed or before you leave the house by putting a keypad near the front door and pressing the all off button etc (or the same command on the iPad).

 

To wire for a wall screen or something else you mainly now need to drop a CAT5e cable.  That cable can run Power over Ethernet to the device to keep it turned on and also connect to the data connection on the device.  CAT5e or for high data requirements (like HDMI replacement) CAT6 are the main cables you need to run to anywhere you might want to put something in the future.  Take a picture before the drywall goes up so you know where the cable is hidden behind the drywall.

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post #14 of 28 Old 05-07-2014, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you considered Dish / Joey / Hopper? Similar system?

FOOTBALL!!!
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A piece of CAT 6 behind each TV is all you need to set up a future proof video distribution, HDBaseT Baluns will then home run the HDMI, IR etc.

All HDTV's locations will have 2 CAT6 and 2 RG6, also 4 other location will have the same but stubbed for the future. I hit the wall when you say "HDBaseT Baluns", do not understand there use?
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How does Control4 work? For what you are doing, it knows what hardware is connected to what and how, basically electronic version of that diagram you are thinking of

So what is the difference from Control4 and URC or Crestron, they are also brains?

OK, I understand that Control4 is the brain and everything connects to the brain in the A/V cabinet in the mechanical. What I'm having issue with is the Sonos (or like product), how does it fit into the system?? I have 7-zone ceiling speakers 16/4-16/2 crossover home run to the A/V cabinet. How do these zones get connected to the system?

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post #15 of 28 Old 05-07-2014, 05:14 PM
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, have a great A/V sub that does very clean work.

You should be asking your A/V sub these questions.
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post #16 of 28 Old 05-07-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I plan to talk with him this Friday, but it's always good to gain knowledge. Gaining knowledge is like putting money in the bank, the more you put in the ricer you are!

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post #17 of 28 Old 05-07-2014, 09:25 PM
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But you have to cautious of where you gain this knowledge.

You have too many questions and miss-understandings, to try and go through them all, in an online forum. And that is the reason why I suggested an in person meeting with your preferred a/v person.





btw, Control 4 is a closed system and they do not release the software to the public, only to licensed and trained dealers.
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post #18 of 28 Old 05-08-2014, 02:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Understand, like Crestron and URC. All these controllers are heavy programing and high end. To make them a KISS to the user there is a higher cost to the user. The problem with any A/V sub is they are pushing what they are tied to also. So, I ask question to get a larger scoop of options to ask "what about this". This forum provides the sounding board for "what about this". I'm light-years ahead of where I was when I started this process. I couldn't spell A/V!! Now I have a better understand of how the game is played. I'm still missing ground balls, but catching more than I miss. biggrin.gif

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post #19 of 28 Old 05-08-2014, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udtsealeod View Post


FOOTBALL!!!
All HDTV's locations will have 2 CAT6 and 2 RG6, also 4 other location will have the same but stubbed for the future. I hit the wall when you say "HDBaseT Baluns", do not understand there use?
So what is the difference from Control4 and URC or Crestron, they are also brains?

OK, I understand that Control4 is the brain and everything connects to the brain in the A/V cabinet in the mechanical. What I'm having issue with is the Sonos (or like product), how does it fit into the system?? I have 7-zone ceiling speakers 16/4-16/2 crossover home run to the A/V cabinet. How do these zones get connected to the system?

 

HDBaseT Baluns

 

These are a clever widgits that take an HDMI signal from a source over 50ft away and convert it into a signal that will travel further distances over CAT6 cable.  At the otehr end is another balun that converts the signal back into an HDMI source so the TV can take the signal just as if the source was more local on a short HDMI cable.  The Balun also has the ability to communicate in the opposite direction taking IR signals from the TV end and sending them to devices etc.  Clever integration stuff.  If you are putting the Direct TV boxes locally this is not important, remotely this will get the signal from the box in the electronic closet to the TV.

 

So what is the difference from Control4 and URC or Crestron, they are also brains?
 

What is the difference between C4, URC and Crestron is a bit like asking what is the difference between BMW, Audi and Mercedes, they have many similarities, they all have 4 wheels and can get you from A>B but then there are subtle differences that have you preferring one over the others.

 

As other recent threads have been commented the comparison is hashed to death on these boards, take a search and read.

 

Crestron is likely the more expensive option.  The code for your system is written and compile then the executible installed on your system.  Changes need the uncompiled code and often the coder that wrote it.  Custom everything from UI onwards.

 

Control4 has a default UI, you can change themes on it but you cannot change the UI.  The programming the dealer puts on the system does not need compiling and is not encrypted and is standardised so moving to another dealer or remote programming guy is easier.  It works with both Android and iDevices out of the box.

 

URC.  I have not explored so cannot comment.  I only notice that if you have any android devices you need the 'Complete Control' line.

 

What I'm having issue with is the Sonos (or like product), how does it fit into the system??

 

In a control system it becomes a source, you get a Sonos Zone Player /  Connect http://www.sonos.com/shop/products/connect and plug the analog or digital outputs from it into the control system.

In a Control4 environment there is a driver for the sytetem made by ExtraVegetables that then talks to the Sonos and gets data back from the Sonos over IP so you can control it from the C4 UI and get feedback into the C4 UI (e.g. playlists, whats playing now etc).

 

In the control system you need to think of your source devices (Sonos, DirectTV boxes, iPad, BD), the switching devices things like audio matrixes, video matrixes and AVRs and then the endpoints, speakers, TVs etc.

 

So in a Control system, Sonos > 8x8 Matrix Amp > Speakers.  The Control system tells the sonos what to play, tells the matrix what destination to send that to, tells the amp the volume and the speakers play it out.

 

In a non control system you would likely be getting the http://www.sonos.com/shop/products/connectamp connect Amp, one for each music zone and so while the room has cable back to the electronic closet there would basically for each music zone be Connect Amp > Speakers.  The Sonos App would be controlling each of those individually and time aligning the sources / streaming over the multiple devices as opposed to having one source sent to multiple amps.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

But you have to cautious of where you gain this knowledge.

You have too many questions and miss-understandings, to try and go through them all, in an online forum. And that is the reason why I suggested an in person meeting with your preferred a/v person.

btw, Control 4 is a closed system and they do not release the software to the public, only to licensed and trained dealers.

 

Not quite true, Control4 has a Composer Home edition

http://www.control4.com/products/software/composer-home-edition

 

In their own words...

 

Manage and personalize your Control4 system

  • Your System, Your Way. Set LED colors on lights and keypads, lighting levels, dimming speeds, thermostat schedule and custom one-touch buttons.
  • Personalized Entertainment. Easily manage your digital music and DVD collections with custom or automatically imported cover art, personal playlists and media sources.
  • Remote Management. Create email notifications for certain events, like when the doors are left open during the day or the water sensor in the basement is activated.
  • Lighting Scenes. Create and modify lighting, wake up and good night scenes that are customized especially for you.
  • Event Control. Use the Scheduler to program automatic events, like the exterior lights turn on at sunset and off at daybreak.

 

You cannot add devices to the system but once they are added you can program interactions with them.

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post #20 of 28 Old 05-12-2014, 02:53 AM
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This could get messy smile.gif

Step 1 - go have a play with a Sonos system, for anyone not familiar with it and no experience of its capabilities it will blow you away.

That said there are two big provisos based on your various posts:

Internet access is a challenge - without it you are not going to be getting the best out of Sonos, within five mins of installing Sonos you will realise it is not about the hardware it is all about opening up an immense new world of online radio and music streaming.

TV as a Source - not a Sonos strongpoint unless you go with a PLAYBAR in each 'TV' Zone - lip sync becomes an issue on the other Zone Players.

KISS - that's the expensive bit and the bit which does require you to call in a Pro and potentially call them back during the lifetime of your system, we have customers whose systems are constantly developing, we may get called back once a year or once every three or four years.

KISS DIY - not possible unless you enjoy spending your evenings and weekends in a dark room hunched over your computer keyboard shouting at the guy on a Geek Forum who's telling you that it ought to be a simple task to hack into line 20567 of your software code, with maybe a wee visit to 'obscure drivers are us' to download the latest 'fix' for a widget smile.gif

KISS x3 - design and install your Theatre Room (and include a Sonos Connect as a Source), add Soundbars to your TV's either Sonos PLAYBAR or add a. Connect as a 'local' Source) and plonk PLAY:5, PLAY:3 or PLAY:1's in audio only Zones.

It'll then take five mains to learn how to use the system.

For anything else call in the Pro's,

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post #21 of 28 Old 05-12-2014, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your feedback. I live in rural Idaho, and the selection of A/V subs is lacking. But, that said I do have a pro or an A/V sub. The HT is almost worked out, the remote control is the element really remaining. The selection of projector and screen is a personal choice based on money!! Video is for now DirecTV (based on football package) Genie, simple and easy to install. Later Video distribution may change, but for now it's a money issue. Audio, 7-zones with wiring worked out. Control of the Audio is the issue and continues to be the issue. From reading at this forum and the questions I've asked, there a two ways to go.
1. $$$ control with pro programming. Control4, Crestron, URC, etc. with ipad/iphone control.
2. $$ control with minimal pro programing. Wall LEDs, more wiring (CAT6), TBD unit??

Sonos for me is last resort based on my very very poor internet possibilities. Did I miss something?

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post #22 of 28 Old 05-12-2014, 06:24 AM
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'$$ control with minimal pro programing' - would then require a heck of a lot of programming/learning by someone else, none of theses systems are as simple as the literature makes out. The user interface is crucial to a working system.

Sonos - given a decent music library living on a NAS on your local network is still a brilliant system its just that without access to the Internet you are missing out on a whole new way of experiencing music. I look after a five Zone system for a near neighbour and they have very ropey internet so for them its used for 'local' streaming 80% of the time.

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post #23 of 28 Old 05-12-2014, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I was told that Sonos is only a volume control system, not a wall selection fore different input in different rooms? Streaming is not a very good option, it's not a choice we prefer. Over 250 CD's on PS3, wife listens to her iphone & ipad or HDTV music channels through HT system. What is your opion of Aton as a simple audio control??

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post #24 of 28 Old 05-13-2014, 02:16 AM
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Sonos is all about accessing your music library and discovering a whole new world of music online - the interface is via as many iOS, Android, WIN or OSX devices as you have around the house and it’s a brilliant user experience.

Your CD collection hosted on your PS3 (though I would move it to a less power hungry NAS) can be accessed by one or more Zones simultaneous with individual album/track selection in each zone and you have the ability to put together playlist or shuffle etc.

The interactive interface is streets ahead of the wall panel solution you are considering.

With a couple of button pushes you can group/ungroup Zones for simultaneous listening with individual volume control in each Zone.

You can stream music from any iOS or Android device without having to move the music over to your PS3 or NAS.

Whoever is feeding you info on Sonos either hasn’t ever used it or has some alternative reason to steer you away from it!

Sonos is also one of the few systems which can keep multiple Zones 'in-sync' when sharing the same source across Zones.

I haven’t used the Aton kit – the AH66T KT looks like a decent ‘old school’ system smile.gif

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post #25 of 28 Old 05-13-2014, 02:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I like the "old school" comment, I'm old!! Sonos allows to select different audio devices to play at the same time in different rooms (zones)?

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post #26 of 28 Old 05-13-2014, 04:14 AM
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'I'm old!!'' - me too smile.gif

I have a few Sonos Zones around the house - I can have the same or different music playing in each Zone or group of Zones.

In terms of 'digital' music I can have music from my local NAS, music from online Radio, music from Online Libraries or music from my various iOS devices.

I also have my AM/FM tuner as a Line-in on one Zone (which I can listen o in any Zone) plus an ‘Old School’ CD player if I don’t want to digitise a disc but do want to listen to it through the system.

The PLAYBAR can be used as a TV speaker system (using the Optical Input) – I don’t have one of those in my own system as I have a stand-alone AVR (with a Sonos Connect as a Source into the AVR).

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post #27 of 28 Old 05-13-2014, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Is this all hard wired or WiFi? Can you play HDTV DirecTV through speakers as a source?

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post #28 of 28 Old 05-13-2014, 06:05 AM
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You can configure Sonos in a number of ways.


Sonos utilises its own wireless 'Mesh' to allow the various Zone players to communicate/stream files when you have them dotted around a property.


Alternatively you can hard-wire some or all of your Sonos devices.


In all systems there must be one Sonos device hardwired to your Router - they have a low cost Bridge device if you don't require a Zone Player near to the Router.


Some folk will have the Zone Players doted around a property (some Players are fully functioning devices with streaming/amp/spks in a single chassis (which simply requires a power cord) and can even be 'moved around' if you wish to have a 'portable' Zone.


Other folk will have all of the Zone Players in a central location with loudspeaker cables run out to ceiling, wall or floor standing speakers.


You can plug the Line-out from a HDTV or HDTV tuner to an Input on some types of Zone Players – though like many systems you have to be aware that keeping audio ‘in sync’ with the image on the TV screen can be tricky, the Sonos PLAYBAR (with its Optical input) is sometimes being the best option to use in ‘TV’ Zones.


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