Any experience with the Atlona or Extron HBaseT HDMI Extenders? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 06-19-2014, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Any experience with the Atlona or Extron HBaseT HDMI Extenders?

Hello all,


Specifically:


Extron – DTP HDMI 230 Tx and DTP HDMI 230 Rx
Atlona – AT-HDTX and AT-HDRX


I might need 3 or 4 sets of them to run HDMI to/from TVs and gaming systems.


Is one better than the other? Any recommendations on where to buy either one of these setups?


I plan to use Monoprice Redmere cables for the extended HDMI runs, but will quickly fall back to one of these if the cables fail.


If the Extron or Atlona extenders don't work, is the Crestron HD-EXT3-C better or just more expensive. Do I have other options?


Thanks.
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post #2 of 26 Old 06-19-2014, 02:27 PM
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Monoprice has an extender kit too:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2
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post #3 of 26 Old 06-19-2014, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
Yeah thanks. Forgot that. I believe I already have one to one of my TVs. I am having some issues with that TV, but there is no way to know right now if it is the extender or something else. Hoping to start eliminating possibilities.
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post #4 of 26 Old 06-19-2014, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
Yeah - thanks forgot that. Can anyone help put this into perspective with the others. What is the overall order this extender as compared to the Redmere cables and the other 3 extenders?
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post #5 of 26 Old 06-20-2014, 08:55 AM
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The build quality and warranty on Extron/Crestron is top shelf. From what I have learned recently, it seems that Crestron basically bankrolled Valens into developing the HDBT standard, so the Crestron product really is always cutting edge. But, if I just wanted solid HDBT extenders I would likely look at Aurora Multimedia.

http://auroramultimedia.com/products/dxe-cat-s2/
and
http://auroramultimedia.com/products/dxe-cat-rx2/

They only need power on one side and have robust power supplies, good ventilation, and long term reliability is excellent.

Atlona is, in my experience, often a step up from Monoprice, but not as good as Aurora. Extron and Crestron are world class.


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post #6 of 26 Old 06-20-2014, 09:20 AM
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We tried Monoprice HDMI / Shielded CAT6 Baluns and had issues. Spent the money on Extron and just simply works.

Spend the $$.
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post #7 of 26 Old 06-20-2014, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
We tried Monoprice HDMI / Shielded CAT6 Baluns and had issues. Spent the money on Extron and just simply works.

Spend the $$.
Come on now... WHICH model from Monoprice did you use? They have about 20 different HDMI extenders, some of which are real garbage. But, their HDBT models are using the same chip set that Extron uses from Valens.

Specifically: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

If you had issues with one of their junk-o-extendos then I'm not surprised at all, so have I, but their HDBT ones I haven't seen issues with other than some power supply failures (they go dead). They aren't something I recommend for commercial work, but Extron is rarely worth the extra expense for these basic extenders, just as Crestron isn't. There are better options.


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post #8 of 26 Old 06-20-2014, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Come on now... WHICH model from Monoprice did you use? They have about 20 different HDMI extenders, some of which are real garbage. But, their HDBT models are using the same chip set that Extron uses from Valens.

Specifically: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

If you had issues with one of their junk-o-extendos then I'm not surprised at all, so have I, but their HDBT ones I haven't seen issues with other than some power supply failures (they go dead). They aren't something I recommend for commercial work, but Extron is rarely worth the extra expense for these basic extenders, just as Crestron isn't. There are better options.
It was so long ago... Sorry just was our experience at the time. They certainly didn't have 20 models when we looked.
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post #9 of 26 Old 06-20-2014, 03:20 PM
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I have used the current batch of Atlona extender multiple times for clients, only one's I'll recommend at this point, don't like going back to clients homes to troubleshoot baluns not working.
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post #10 of 26 Old 06-21-2014, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
It was so long ago... Sorry just was our experience at the time. They certainly didn't have 20 models when we looked.
No apology necessary. I certainly used the first bath of HDMI over cat extenders that Monoprice had years ago as well. They kind of worked, but weren't great. The newest HDBT models they have (about $200 or more) are using the same chip sets that Atlona and others use, but cost about half as much.

I have used pretty much all of those brands, and my only complaint with the Monoprice versions is their power supply section isn't as robust as what others have. You must power both ends, and they sometimes fail. They have a 1-year warranty, and I haven't seen one fail which has lasted more than a month. It's just the first month that can be tricky. I have them installed in locations for over two years now.

Still, Atlona & Aurora are going to be more reliable products because of their better design to the power supply and the one-end only needing power.

I've gotta figure out how all my Crestron stuff is connected at this point.


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post #11 of 26 Old 06-23-2014, 02:42 PM
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'Do I have other options? '- Yes

A bit more information on the planned system would be handy.

Lots of folk see HDBT as a 'they are all the same' product and that is very definitely not the case – as others have pointed out ‘basic’stuff like which PoE solution you go with can make a big difference, we useSilvertel (not cheap but works every time).

We have come out pretty well recently on a few corporate ‘shoot outs’ - http://on.fb.me/1lkNoQ2

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post #12 of 26 Old 06-23-2014, 08:12 PM
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Atlona = :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
We tried Monoprice HDMI / Shielded CAT6 Baluns and had issues. Spent the money on Extron and just simply works.

Spend the $$.
I spend about $600 on a Atlona RSNET TX and RX HDBaseT units.
I used 600Mhz Enhanced CAT6A SSTP cable,... and nothing. It just refuses to work
Ethernet works fine over the same cables and cable testers show a good connection.
I tried the A and B scheme,.. no joy
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post #13 of 26 Old 06-23-2014, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator View Post
I spend about $600 on a Atlona RSNET TX and RX HDBaseT units.
I used 600Mhz Enhanced CAT6A SSTP cable,... and nothing. It just refuses to work
Ethernet works fine over the same cables and cable testers show a good connection.
I tried the A and B scheme,.. no joy
Use 568B, and reterminate the cables.

Ethernet and cheap (sub $1,000+) testers aren't going to tell you the information you need. A good Fluke ($5,000+) tester is required to test actual bandwidth across the cable at the very least in this type of system.

If the distance isn't crazy, you can just run a long patch cable and see if it works. Whenever I have HDBT issues, I grab a 100' (or a couple of them!) and connect them point to point to see if the system works. In all my testing, it's ALWAYS been the terminations and every single time those terminations have tested good on a basic tester ($100) and passed Ethernet across the cable without issue.

But, Gigabit Ethernet is nowhere near what HDBT is demanding. It leverages 10GBit technology and goes beyond it, so terminations can't be 'close', they must be perfect.

Still, I've seen a few products fail, so a quality cat-5e & HDMI cable in place to test things is always a very good starting point for testing.


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post #14 of 26 Old 06-23-2014, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Use 568B, and reterminate the cables.

Ethernet and cheap (sub $1,000+) testers aren't going to tell you the information you need. A good Fluke ($5,000+) tester is required to test actual bandwidth across the cable at the very least in this type of system.

If the distance isn't crazy, you can just run a long patch cable and see if it works. Whenever I have HDBT issues, I grab a 100' (or a couple of them!) and connect them point to point to see if the system works. In all my testing, it's ALWAYS been the terminations and every single time those terminations have tested good on a basic tester ($100) and passed Ethernet across the cable without issue.

But, Gigabit Ethernet is nowhere near what HDBT is demanding. It leverages 10GBit technology and goes beyond it, so terminations can't be 'close', they must be perfect.

Still, I've seen a few products fail, so a quality cat-5e & HDMI cable in place to test things is always a very good starting point for testing.
Works:
20cm: Cat 6 STP patch cable, no info on wire
10ft: ELIX (UL) E162897 CAT 5 STP 4PR 24 AWG ETL STANDARD TIA/EIA 568A
6.5ft: UTP PATCH CABLE, no info on wire
10ft: AWM 2835 24 AWG 60C VW-1 E237114 CSA 219561 FT1 ETL VERIFIED CAT 5E UTP TIA/EIA-568B.2 CM 4PR CABLETECH TECHNOLOGY
6.5ft: COPARTNER E188601 (UL) TYPE CM 75C 24AWG/4PRS LL84201 CSA TYPE CMG FT4
12ft: UTP CABLE 4PR ETL VERIFIED TIA/EIA-568B.2 CAT5e PATCH CABLE (UL) E324441 60C 30V VW-1 CHANGJIANG 24AWG 60C 30V FT1
25ft: LAN CABLE UTP CAT6 STRANDED 24AWG/4PAIRS TO TIA/EIA-568-B.2-1
18ft: (UL) E178558 TYPE CM 24 AWG 4PR - c(UL) E178558 CMGB - FT4 - ETL VERIFIED TIA/EIA 568A CAT - 5 PATCH

doesn't work:
No link light activity: 7ft: PATCH CORD 24AWG 2PR 2835 EB7647-DG 5W AWM 60C 30V LL58663 CSA AWM I/II A 80C 30V FT1 ETL VERIFIED TO EIA /TIA-568A CAT5
fast blinking link light: 50ft: WONDERFUL-D E142890 CM 75C UTP 4PR 24AWG VERIFIED (UL) CAT 5 CSA CM 75C FT4 LL43774ETL VERIFIED WEBLAN
link light quick flash every 2-3secs: AWM 2835 24AWG 60C 30V FT2 E237114 CSA 219561 AWM 24AWG II A 60C 30V FT2 ETL VERIFIED CAT 6 UTP TIA/EIA-568B.2 CM 4PR CABLETECH TECHNOLOGY
No link light activity: RoHS COMPLIANT ENHANCED 600MHZ E213738-Y 23AWG 4PR CM (UL) C(UL) 60C VERIFIED ISO/IEC 11801 AND TIA/EIA 568 CAT6A SSTP 0128FT

The last cable is what I ran throughout the house off a 1000ft spool.
I did manage to get a connection using a supposedly lesser connector between the office and home theater using the A scheme: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Maybe I'll buy 2 more of those, but its black magic at this point
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What keystones do you guys have success with? (CAT 6A and above, shielded)
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post #16 of 26 Old 06-24-2014, 01:29 AM
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'What keystones do you guys have success with?' - never use them, we aim for a straight through connection from the Tx to the Rx.


Are you having the same problem on all installed cable runs around the house?


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post #17 of 26 Old 06-24-2014, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator View Post
What keystones do you guys have success with? (CAT 6A and above, shielded)
As Joe said above, if using the cat cabling for extending HDMI, then there should be no extra connections. The cable should be straight from TX to RX.

However, if you are talking about cabling for ethernet, then I found the keystones from Monoprice to be more than enough.

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post #18 of 26 Old 06-24-2014, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Use 568B, and reterminate the cables.

Ethernet and cheap (sub $1,000+) testers aren't going to tell you the information you need. A good Fluke ($5,000+) tester is required to test actual bandwidth across the cable at the very least in this type of system.

If the distance isn't crazy, you can just run a long patch cable and see if it works. Whenever I have HDBT issues, I grab a 100' (or a couple of them!) and connect them point to point to see if the system works. In all my testing, it's ALWAYS been the terminations and every single time those terminations have tested good on a basic tester ($100) and passed Ethernet across the cable without issue.

But, Gigabit Ethernet is nowhere near what HDBT is demanding. It leverages 10GBit technology and goes beyond it, so terminations can't be 'close', they must be perfect.

Still, I've seen a few products fail, so a quality cat-5e & HDMI cable in place to test things is always a very good starting point for testing.
Very good information. In your experience when the termination needs to be replaced, does it always cause problems or is it more temperamental? In other words, is it black and white - it either works or it doesn't or are there many shades of gray?

Have you found certain feeds or sources to be more likely to cause problems?
Short of a good fluke, how do you recommend testing the HBaseT extender and what criteria do you use to "mark" the testing as successful?

Thanks a lot.

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post #19 of 26 Old 06-24-2014, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garet Jax View Post
Very good information. In your experience when the termination needs to be replaced, does it always cause problems or is it more temperamental? In other words, is it black and white - it either works or it doesn't or are there many shades of gray?

Have you found certain feeds or sources to be more likely to cause problems?
Short of a good fluke, how do you recommend testing the HBaseT extender and what criteria do you use to "mark" the testing as successful?

Thanks a lot.
As it is, the company I work for owns a Fluke, which we purchased after several years of fighting different installations. We now certify all the jobs as part of the punchout process.

But, for my residential work, I pretty much just test and reterminate as necessary. I never use EZ-RJ45 connectors, and I personally don't use STP cat-6 cable as I've been fine with cat-5e in my work. So, I've had as much luck as anything else with things and good success with the Monoprice units. Video has been varying but includes PCs as well as traditional video sources like cable TV and Blu-ray Disc players.

For the commercial work I take part in we use West Penn cable, which (from what I just heard) may be relabeled Berk-Tek cat-6STP wire. We use Leviton if taking it to a wall jack, but typically terminate it directly with cat-6STP ends.

From there, it's more a matter of the guys just plugging it in and doing a video check. They have been terminating these cables for a few years now in this manner and are very comfortable with all of it. So, they have a 98%+ pass rate on the first try. But, when we have issues, we do bring in the Fluke, and we are doing this more and more across all the installations to ensure quality of service.

Still, it's all about the terminations is what we keep seeing time and time again. If the end points work (through testing) then it's the terminations which mess everything up. Every now and then we find that cable has been pulled over fluorescent lighting or exists in a very electronic dirty environment, and we have to move cabling around.

Oh, and how issues are presented: Most often it is just 'no signal', but at times it is a signal that drops. We only test at 1080p/60 so if the signal doesn't pass, it's a failing grade and we figure out why. There is no point where it is relevant for us to test 720p or 1024x768 as a signal, because those aren't really testing the full system. So, we start with 1080p/60 and then see what happens. I have seen bad product from Crestron (and others) which has been replaced, and we find that out when we switch out product with other product. Sometimes a bad transmitter, sometimes a bad receiver. We will see blanking, or I won't see it properly show up in a device list, or show incorrect signal coming in/out of the unit. But, beyond that, it's visual. A signal that is good for 10 seconds, then drops for 3 seconds. Then repeats at intermittent rates. Or a signal that works once, then doesn't work the next time. We always use quality HDMI cables so I have not seen sparkling or other effects which can be introduced over a HDMI cable when using HDBT. It's always been a signal is there, or it isn't, situation.


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post #20 of 26 Old 06-25-2014, 09:09 AM
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I have successfully used dozens of Extron twisted pair extenders using both standard CAT5e and Extron's DTP24 cable. Most applications are around 50'-75' while a couple installs are 150'-200'. Using a shielded twisted pair cable will eliminate issues that you might face with standard CAT5e cable.



ERIC
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post #21 of 26 Old 06-27-2014, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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OK guys - thanks for all the responses. Here is the next question. If I am going to try running an HDMI extender, what is the best ethernet cable (and connector) to run for it?

If I use this monoprice bulk cabling

with this connector

am I going to be OK. I really want to have the best chance to get this right. I have been having problems from day 1 and I just want it to work.

Thanks.
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You are looking at a solid wire and connectors for stranded wire. These might not work well together.

ERIC
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post #23 of 26 Old 06-27-2014, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trx250r87 View Post
You are looking at a solid wire and connectors for stranded wire. These might not work well together.

ERIC
Point taken, but I have read that I need top quality cabling and connectors if they are to be used for HDMI extenders. I am wondering if this is high quality enough. Do you have any thoughts?

Thanks.
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Personally I would just get a roll of quality name brand cat6 on ebay. I prefer Belden.
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post #25 of 26 Old 07-01-2014, 01:53 AM
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We have been using and recommending the Black-Box GigaTrue 550MHz CAT6 + matching connectors and crimp tool for the past few years and not had any reason to go look elsewhere – being available in multiple colors is very handy on more complex installs.

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post #26 of 26 Old 08-07-2014, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Come on now... WHICH model from Monoprice did you use? They have about 20 different HDMI extenders, some of which are real garbage. But, their HDBT models are using the same chip set that Extron uses from Valens.

Specifically: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

If you had issues with one of their junk-o-extendos then I'm not surprised at all, so have I, but their HDBT ones I haven't seen issues with other than some power supply failures (they go dead). They aren't something I recommend for commercial work, but Extron is rarely worth the extra expense for these basic extenders, just as Crestron isn't. There are better options.
For home use, can you list the better options. Is the Monoprice HDMI extender you mentioned in your post the best reliable option for home use or are there better options at a cheaper price?
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