Yet Another WHA pre-drywall wiring question or 2 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 5 Old 07-17-2014, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Yet Another WHA pre-drywall wiring question or 2

I am in the final prep stages of wiring the master bdrm/bath area of my home prior to drywall and will not have ceiling access in the area when complete, Just a quick question after reading a ton about WHA and all the different options out there.I plan on running a 4c speaker wire and a cat6 to each VC throughout the house for flexibility, for right now I will be using a multi-channel (12) for 6 zones throughout the house sourcing from a pre-out from my Denon 4520CI AVR, eventually most likely upgrading slowly with sonos per zone.

1. My biggest question right now is in the mstr bed/bath area if I have 1-DVC in the bath area and 2-2way speakers in the bedroom area with separate VC’s I am under the impression its fine to daisy chain from 1 VC to the other with the L/R channel feeds from the amp to the impedance matching VC’s with using just 1 zone off my 6 zone amp and selecting 4x on the VC? (or run 2 home runs right to the amp and connect them together there).

If that is correct then it’s safe to say I can do the same with 2 speakers in my kitchen, 1-DVC in the hallway and 1-DVC elsewhere all with separate VC’s and in this case would select X6 at all 3 VC’s , all of course so long as all speakers are 8-ohm ??

2. For flexibility am I better off planning on having at least room for cutting a 2 gang LV ring into the drywall when I am ready, this way if I just cut a 1gang ring out for VC only and then at a later date need a 2 gang ring cut in if needed for a control pad/display upgrade I can, without having to remove a plastic box that may be nailed to the stud just to replace it with the needed 2 gang? Or am I better off with using an actual box for sturdiness and protection of electronics inside the wall cavity?

Thanks in advance for any help......
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post #2 of 5 Old 07-18-2014, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post
I am in the final prep stages of wiring the master bdrm/bath area of my home prior to drywall and will not have ceiling access in the area when complete, Just a quick question after reading a ton about WHA and all the different options out there.I plan on running a 4c speaker wire and a cat6 to each VC throughout the house for flexibility, for right now I will be using a multi-channel (12) for 6 zones throughout the house sourcing from a pre-out from my Denon 4520CI AVR, eventually most likely upgrading slowly with sonos per zone.
Congrats and thanks for reading all the other threads first!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post
1. My biggest question right now is in the mstr bed/bath area if I have 1-DVC in the bath area and 2-2way speakers in the bedroom area with separate VC’s I am under the impression its fine to daisy chain from 1 VC to the other with the L/R channel feeds from the amp to the impedance matching VC’s with using just 1 zone off my 6 zone amp and selecting 4x on the VC? (or run 2 home runs right to the amp and connect them together there).
While you can connect the two rooms in parallel (by daisy chaining BEFORE the input side of the first volume control), I would strongly recommend against that. Home run the 4c wire from the master bath instead. You can do the same parallel wiring at the head end (so can accomplish the same sharing), but in the future you'd be able to separate those two rooms into their own zones.

And on that note - I'm not at all a fan of combining bedroom/bathrooms into one zone (even with separate VC's). Turning on music in the bathroom while your spouse is still sleeping - and forgetting to turn down the other VC first - might cause an "issue".


Quote:
Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post
If that is correct then it’s safe to say I can do the same with 2 speakers in my kitchen, 1-DVC in the hallway and 1-DVC elsewhere all with separate VC’s and in this case would select X6 at all 3 VC’s , all of course so long as all speakers are 8-ohm ??
Again, I would home run everything, and do any combinations back at the head end - because it allows you to either change your mind, or expand, later...

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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post
2. For flexibility am I better off planning on having at least room for cutting a 2 gang LV ring into the drywall when I am ready, this way if I just cut a 1gang ring out for VC only and then at a later date need a 2 gang ring cut in if needed for a control pad/display upgrade I can, without having to remove a plastic box that may be nailed to the stud just to replace it with the needed 2 gang? Or am I better off with using an actual box for sturdiness and protection of electronics inside the wall cavity?
Don't use boxes, the LV rings are sufficient and better for WHA purposes. I would use a 1-gang ring unless you know you'll be using a 2-gang keypad. But absolutely position those 1-gang rings such that they have space to become a 2-gang cutout in the wall in the future. Removing an LV ring to make room for a double-gang one after the fact is pretty simple. But do use the plastic rings - not metal ones!

On positioning - you might consider keeping more than "a little" space between the LV ring and anything else. Either put the ring above/below the light switch, or at least on the other side of the same stud bay. I say that because with the cost of touchscreens being so low (relatively) these days, we might see 7-10" displays common - which would only need a single/double-gang hole, but would cover up more the surrounding wall space... Just a thought.


Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht
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post #3 of 5 Old 07-18-2014, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Congrats and thanks for reading all the other threads first!



While you can connect the two rooms in parallel (by daisy chaining BEFORE the input side of the first volume control), I would strongly recommend against that. Home run the 4c wire from the master bath instead. You can do the same parallel wiring at the head end (so can accomplish the same sharing), but in the future you'd be able to separate those two rooms into their own zones.

And on that note - I'm not at all a fan of combining bedroom/bathrooms into one zone (even with separate VC's). Turning on music in the bathroom while your spouse is still sleeping - and forgetting to turn down the other VC first - might cause an "issue".




Again, I would home run everything, and do any combinations back at the head end - because it allows you to either change your mind, or expand, later...



Don't use boxes, the LV rings are sufficient and better for WHA purposes. I would use a 1-gang ring unless you know you'll be using a 2-gang keypad. But absolutely position those 1-gang rings such that they have space to become a 2-gang cutout in the wall in the future. Removing an LV ring to make room for a double-gang one after the fact is pretty simple. But do use the plastic rings - not metal ones!

On positioning - you might consider keeping more than "a little" space between the LV ring and anything else. Either put the ring above/below the light switch, or at least on the other side of the same stud bay. I say that because with the cost of touchscreens being so low (relatively) these days, we might see 7-10" displays common - which would only need a single/double-gang hole, but would cover up more the surrounding wall space... Just a thought.


Jeff

Thanks for the reply Jeff, completely get the home run back to my media closet now, can change things up as needed if/when I choose to that way. But my understanding of the VC's is accurate ? If I have 1 pr on that zone and use a VC leave it set on 1x , if I have 2 pairs weather it be 1 dvc and 1 pair of standard or 2 pairs of standards have it set on 2x, 3pairs of L/R channel speakers set it to 3x and so on correct ?

Great point on the positioning as well, I was thinking on the other side of the switch stud as you mention but maybe at 5ft OC from the floor so its at a better eye level for most...I know its most likely a personal preference with the height but is there a standard most people go with for whatever other reason ??

You mention the possibility of 7-10" screens in the future, would the speaker wires and just 1 cat5e/cat6 cable still cover me for something like that or should I have 2 cat5e/cat6 cables maybe ?? I have a box or so and now is the time for sure to make sure I am future proofed....

Thanks again,
Steve
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post #4 of 5 Old 07-18-2014, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post
Thanks for the reply Jeff, completely get the home run back to my media closet now, can change things up as needed if/when I choose to that way. But my understanding of the VC's is accurate ? If I have 1 pr on that zone and use a VC leave it set on 1x , if I have 2 pairs weather it be 1 dvc and 1 pair of standard or 2 pairs of standards have it set on 2x, 3pairs of L/R channel speakers set it to 3x and so on correct ?
Correct. The VC's impedance-matching is based on the number of pairs that will be connected in total to one amplifier output. And it assumes all pairs are wired in parallel.

For a multichannel amp setup (e.g. 6 pairs onto a 12-channel amp) - where you are connecting multiple speaker pairs, but only one speaker per amp-channel, the VC's would be set to 1X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post
Great point on the positioning as well, I was thinking on the other side of the switch stud as you mention but maybe at 5ft OC from the floor so its at a better eye level for most...I know its most likely a personal preference with the height but is there a standard most people go with for whatever other reason ??
I like higher than switch-height so you're not bending down / looking down at the display to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post
You mention the possibility of 7-10" screens in the future, would the speaker wires and just 1 cat5e/cat6 cable still cover me for something like that or should I have 2 cat5e/cat6 cables maybe ?? I have a box or so and now is the time for sure to make sure I am future proofed....
I would be shocked if future touchscreens / keypads required anything beyond a single cat5e - since Power-over-Ethernet is easy and standardized... And more importantly, the single cable is what has been recommended for >6 years for new construction.


Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht
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post #5 of 5 Old 07-18-2014, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Correct. The VC's impedance-matching is based on the number of pairs that will be connected in total to one amplifier output. And it assumes all pairs are wired in parallel.

For a multichannel amp setup (e.g. 6 pairs onto a 12-channel amp) - where you are connecting multiple speaker pairs, but only one speaker per amp-channel, the VC's would be set to 1X.



I like higher than switch-height so you're not bending down / looking down at the display to use it.



I would be shocked if future touchscreens / keypads required anything beyond a single cat5e - since Power-over-Ethernet is easy and standardized... And more importantly, the single cable is what has been recommended for >6 years for new construction.


Jeff
Thanks again Jeff for verifying my assumptions with the VC's, I believe from this point I am all set in regards to my wiring needs now I just have to decide on my ceiling speakers and continue on my project that seems to be going on forever now.....

One last thing , any good recommended VC's you can point me in the direction to ? Either slider or rotary, just something basic and reliable without breaking the bank ? After all by the time I have all my zones complete with speakers and all working I'll probably be ready for those 7-10" displays

Steve
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