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post #1 of 9 Old 06-13-2016, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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HDMI source not reaching projector

Posting here because I think this is the most appropriate forum, I considered either the Video Components or Display forum, but I think it's HDMI related so I chose AV distribution forum... apologies if it's not the correct forum.

Ok, well I'm a bit stumped here as to what my issue is but I suspect it's HDMI handshake related. Here is my setup. I have 3 devices plugged into my Onkyo receiver (HT-S3500) , a PS4, cable DVR receiver, and an HTPC. The single output on the Onkyo receiver goes to a Monoprice HDMI splitter (MP-SP08) with one output going to my LG plasma TV, and the other output going to my Optoma HD33 projector (Referred to as PJ going forward). HDMI Cables are HDMI 1.4.

Now I have had a tangentially related issue that I have had to workaround for a while but it may be related to my current problem so I will state it here also. My PJ has 3D capability and my TV does not, so in the event I wish to use the 3D function I would have to power everything down, unplug the power to the splitter, unplug the TV HDMI cable from the splitter then plug the power back in. At this point I can watch 3D with no issue. Now let's say I want to just watch a regular 2D movie/show. I do not have to do anything to the splitter, just turn on the PJ or TV and select the correct input on the receiver and I'm good to go. I have had this setup running since about mid 2012 with no issues other than the above stated workaround for 3D usage.

So about 2 weeks ago I go to watch a Bluray on the PJ and I get the dreaded No Source Found from the PJ. I can hear the sound coming from the receiver and if I select the TV instead I do get the signal and can watch normally. First I tested the PJ by plugging my PS4 directly into the PJ. It sends the signal fine but since I'm bypassing the receiver I have no sound, but this confirms to me that the PJ is ok. So I was thinking that perhaps the semi-frequent plugging and unplugging (NOT HOTPLUGGING) of the splitter may have caused the splitter to fail, so I bought a new splitter (J-Tech 3D ready JTD-MINI-1x2SP) and this time a switcher (Fosman HD8024) also to maybe fix the 3D issue. I powered everything down and setup the new splitter but this time, just to make sure I was going to get any 3D/non 3D EDID issues, I only plugged in the PJ to the output. I turned on the PJ and receiver and this did complete the signal.

So I began testing and put in a 3D bluray. When it went to play it said I was not connected to a 3D display (even though the splitter is supposedly 3D ready and should pass through). That aside I thought well at least I can watch a 2D movie on the PJ and put in a regular bluray. I got only a couple of minutes in when I started to get minor "Static" in the image then it would turn everything a red hue and then the signal cut out. This happened twice in the first 5 minutes. So this told me that the splitter must be the issue but the one I bought was defective, both for the display issues and its inability to send the 3D through. I then tried to use only the switcher just to see if it would work, again I only plugged the in the receiver input and the PJ on output, but it did not work. If I plug the TV into the switcher it works. So I bought the same Monoprice splitter that I had originally again, thinking that it worked before so a new one should get me back to normal. I hooked up the new Monoprice splitter with the PJ as the only input and again the dreaded No Source Found. If I plug in the TV to the splitter I get the signal.... but nothing from the PJ. I am considering getting a new HDMI cable but something tells me that's not the answer since it sent the signal when directly plugged into the PS4 and when plugged into the J-Tech splitter (Albeit a crappy signal.).

So I ask the great minds here on AVS.... does anyone have any idea what the issue is here or am I left with buying a new cable and taking a shot in the dark. Just to clarify, at this point 3D is a side issue and I really want to correct the No Source Found to the PJ for general 2D viewing. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 9 Old 06-13-2016, 01:32 PM
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A little more info:


- How long is your cable run?
- Is this just happening with the pj, or with the TV too?


Try bypassing one component at a time & see what results you get. Eg, first take the splitter out of the chain, then a cable at a time.
You can also temporarily hook up a short cable to the pj and see if cable length is the problem.


On a side note... I can't find that splitter model number on monoprice.com, so maybe they discontinued it, or relabeled it. That said, you should be able to get an hdmi matrix switch that eliminates the need for your disconnect/reconnect 3d workaround. I use:


http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_i...seq=1&format=2
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post #3 of 9 Old 06-13-2016, 10:13 PM
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Where you have a Distribution Amp (splitter) connected to 1 x 3D + 1 x Non-3D display the 'aggregate' EDID presented to the AVR and Source will be 2D only as that is the only signal both Displays support.

A DA with onboard EDID management will allow you to present the 3D EDID (even when the 2D only Display is connected) - when you pass 3D through the DA the 2D Display will show a garbled image.

Ensure all devices are running up-to-date firmware.

Onkyo AVR's have had issues with HDMI Boards - worth checking if yours is known to have problems.

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post #4 of 9 Old 06-14-2016, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions . I hope to try and do further testing tomorrow when I'm off work, but to answer your questions:

- Most of the HDMI cables are relatively short.. around 6ft. Except the HDMI cable to the PJ which is a 35ft Aurum cable. I have heard about excessively long cables causing signal degradation, but this has been running for some time without issue. I have it hidden around the furniture so it's out of the way to prevent damage to it, but I did an inspection of it just in case and there is no visible wear/damage.

- This seems to be isolated to the PJ being seen as a viable output. The TV is unfazed and seems to be happy receiving a signal from anything.

- The monoprice splitter is actually model number 108204 mini HDMI splitter w/3D. The box says MP-SP08, but looking over the technical details on Amazon it says the model is in fact 108204.

Just to clarify my main concern is to figure out why PJ is no longer receiving a signal from a setup that previously worked. I would be happy at this point if I could at least send a regular 2D signal to the PJ and not have the signal be horrible like that from the J-Tech splitter (Which ironically is the only one at the moment to actually send a signal to the PJ).

So the 3D is a side issue at the moment....but since it was brought up, I was looking over the HDMI True Matrix switch that you suggested, thebard, and then I read what Joe Fernand said and now I'm not sure if it would work. Maybe a switch doesn't need to be concerned about all devices plugged into it the way a splitter does??? I looked over a couple Splitters with EDID programmability but they notate "To get 3D, all units connected to the splitter must support 3D", which seems to kinda defeat the purpose of the programming. Maybe one of the really expensive ones can get around it.

Oh and thanks for the heads up on the Onkyo board issue... I see they have a Customer care program for Loss of Audio/network, but under the reasons section it does say loss of video on output. I'll need to track down the serial to see if it qualifies though. Seeing as it still sends video to the TV I think the AVR is probably OK, but it's worth looking into.
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post #5 of 9 Old 06-14-2016, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaalspawn69 View Post
- Most of the HDMI cables are relatively short.. around 6ft. Except the HDMI cable to the PJ which is a 35ft Aurum cable. I have heard about excessively long cables causing signal degradation, but this has been running for some time without issue. I have it hidden around the furniture so it's out of the way to prevent damage to it, but I did an inspection of it just in case and there is no visible wear/damage.
There's no damage to the cable. But you've swapped out the gear driving the signal on that long cable. The strength and quality of the signal coming out of your new splitter must not be as good as the previous one - and so over the long run it's not making it... You could replace the 35' cable with a Redmere "active" cable which should behave better. But don't do that until you've checked everything else...

Quote:
- This seems to be isolated to the PJ being seen as a viable output. The TV is unfazed and seems to be happy receiving a signal from anything.
Yep, it's the distance...

Quote:
Just to clarify my main concern is to figure out why PJ is no longer receiving a signal from a setup that previously worked. I would be happy at this point if I could at least send a regular 2D signal to the PJ and not have the signal be horrible like that from the J-Tech splitter (Which ironically is the only one at the moment to actually send a signal to the PJ).
As was suggested, run a temporary (short) cable from the splitter output to the projector, to rule out this being a general HDMI compatibility issue before dealing with the long cable run.

Quote:
Oh and thanks for the heads up on the Onkyo board issue... I see they have a Customer care program for Loss of Audio/network, but under the reasons section it does say loss of video on output. I'll need to track down the serial to see if it qualifies though. Seeing as it still sends video to the TV I think the AVR is probably OK, but it's worth looking into.
The Onkyo is not the problem (it's the splitter). The Onkyo may be contributing to the problem with a less-than-ideal signal - but it's not "defective" or otherwise broken...

Jeff

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post #6 of 9 Old 06-14-2016, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaalspawn69 View Post


So the 3D is a side issue at the moment....but since it was brought up, I was looking over the HDMI True Matrix switch that you suggested, thebard, and then I read what Joe Fernand said and now I'm not sure if it would work. Maybe a switch doesn't need to be concerned about all devices plugged into it the way a splitter does??? I looked over a couple Splitters with EDID programmability but they notate "To get 3D, all units connected to the splitter must support 3D", which seems to kinda defeat the purpose of the programming. Maybe one of the really expensive ones can get around it.
A splitter will report the capabilities of all the devices downstream (and default to the lowest one), because both (all) signals are active (unless you turn a device off or, as you've been doing, disconnect it).
A switch will do through IR programming what you have been doing manually... speak to one display or the other.


And, speaking of manually disconnecting... you may want to swap cables/bypass the splitter just to confirm that the manual connects & disconnects haven't worn the pins or ports upstream of your projector.
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post #7 of 9 Old 06-14-2016, 11:28 PM
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HDMI cable - the 'fail' points are usually where the connectors are mated to the cable stock rather than somewhere along the length of the cable.

DA (splitter) - if it includes user selectable EDID can be set to 3D mode and the Source is then not aware of what is down stream of the DA.

DA - many budget designs do cut corners and will struggle to pass the Output signal over a long cable.

Source and AVR - ensure you don't have unnecessary settings such as Deep Color enabled and disable any video up conversion the AVR offers.

Simplify - as per previous posts try and eliminate the long cable on a temp rig to isolate the problem.

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post #8 of 9 Old 06-16-2016, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so after a series of testing it seems that something is wrong with the HDMI inputs on the PJ itself. I still need to research if this is a known issue with the Optoma HD33. Below are the tests I ran yesterday.

Disconnected PJ and reconnected with smaller HDMI cable to both HDMI inputs 1&2... No Source Found.

Ran smaller HDMI out from AVR straight into PJ HDMI inputs 1&2... No Source Found.

Ran AVR HDMI out to J-Tech Splitter (which previously ran PJ in original testing) and used smaller HDMI cable to both HDMI inputs on PJ... No Source Found. BUT possibly worth noting, The Splitter has 1 Red LED and 3 Green LEDs (Red=Power & a Green for each connection). When the power and Input are connected it's lit up. When I add the TV, it lights up ... but if I add the PJ to the output ALL of the lights on the splitter get extremely dim (I thought they turned off at first) and begin to flash on and off.

Next with the splitter being dim and flashing I turned on the TV that was connected and the TV said No Signal, which had not yet happened yet. I unplugged the PJ (TV still on) and as soon as I do that the LED come back on solid and the signal on the TV kicks in.

I tried the last two above tests again except with the Monoprice splitters and the same thing happens with the exception of the LED business.

So now I'm worried about the HDMI ports on the PJ itself, so I try my original test of going straight from my PS4 to the PJ and got something kinda odd. Typically when the PJ tries to connect to a source it will sit there saying "HDMI 1 (or 2) searching" not moving or flashing until it connects at which time the source connection notice disappears and the screen is black for a quick second or two and then the display kicks in. If it cannot connect to a source it will kinda time out and say No Source Found. Now this particular time when I connected straight from the PS4 to the PJ it would say HDMI 1 Searching, then cut out to a black screen (just long enough for my hopes to get up) then would cut back to HDMI searching... back and forth ... over and over. Like it wants to connect but was having a problem doing so.

Next I put the PJ back up and used the 35ft cable again but this time plugged it straight into the PS4.... again it began to bounce back and forth between searching and wanting to kick in without actually kicking in. The last two test were ran on both HDMI 1&2 input on the PJ.

Well crap. I just found this and it does seem like this may be a known issue. I'm going to look into this soon (Testing other inputs on the PJ, etc..). [URL="http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/1496188-optoma-hd33-hdmi-stopped-working-send-back-optoma-attempt-repair-myself.html"]

Thanks very much to all that have replied so far.
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post #9 of 9 Old 06-17-2016, 07:13 AM
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Good you have potentially found the problem - not so great if it is with an Input on the PJ, if you are lucky you may have an alternative working Input.

If the PJ is still in Warranty I'd have it repaired rather than run on the second Input as the faulty is likely to replicate itself at some stage.

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