Sonos or WHA Controller or AVR Zone 2/3? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
  • 2 Post By RBalwinski
  • 2 Post By deemac76
  • 2 Post By jautor
  • 3 Post By RBalwinski
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 04-09-2017, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Sonos or WHA Controller or AVR Zone 2/3?

Hello all I'm looking to expand my WHA setup in my house and need some help with my setup. I've been reading thread after thread and still with questions for my particular setup. Right now I have a Denon AVR powering 5.1 in the FR and Zone 2 powering Kitchen (open to FR) and LR. Another Denon powering 5.1 in the media room and Zone 2 powering hall/master bath and Zone 3 is not being used. Ideally I would like to have 4 -6 zones starting out and build up to about 10 zones.

Besides the 5.1 in the Family room and Media room, I would like a Zone 1 kitchen/dining, Zone 2 living room/entry (can be combined also), Zone 3 Pool/Patio, Zone 4 Garage (future), Zone 5 Hall, Zone 6 Master Bed (TV audio/music), Zone 7 Master Bath, Zone 8,9,10 Spare Bedrooms (future). My sources would be local media, Pandora (2 accts), Mstr Bed TV, Family room TV (sporting events). I would like individual speaker controls but it's not necessary if I can control source and volume with phone apps. Wiring for keypads will not be difficult upstairs but some places on the 1st floor could be a challenge, so Ipad controlled audio would be ideal since I have a couple laying around.

I don't have a problem adding to my existing setup to achieve the other 3 or 4 zones but I would like to utilize one device/program to better functionality. My budget isn't super crazy but I do understand it will not be cheap either. I appreciate the replies in advance. Thanks

Dee

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 04-12-2017, 05:06 AM
Member
 
RBalwinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Macomb, MI
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
Hello all I'm looking to expand my WHA setup in my house and need some help with my setup. I've been reading thread after thread and still with questions for my particular setup. Right now I have a Denon AVR powering 5.1 in the FR and Zone 2 powering Kitchen (open to FR) and LR. Another Denon powering 5.1 in the media room and Zone 2 powering hall/master bath and Zone 3 is not being used. Ideally I would like to have 4 -6 zones starting out and build up to about 10 zones.

Besides the 5.1 in the Family room and Media room, I would like a Zone 1 kitchen/dining, Zone 2 living room/entry (can be combined also), Zone 3 Pool/Patio, Zone 4 Garage (future), Zone 5 Hall, Zone 6 Master Bed (TV audio/music), Zone 7 Master Bath, Zone 8,9,10 Spare Bedrooms (future). My sources would be local media, Pandora (2 accts), Mstr Bed TV, Family room TV (sporting events). I would like individual speaker controls but it's not necessary if I can control source and volume with phone apps. Wiring for keypads will not be difficult upstairs but some places on the 1st floor could be a challenge, so Ipad controlled audio would be ideal since I have a couple laying around.

I don't have a problem adding to my existing setup to achieve the other 3 or 4 zones but I would like to utilize one device/program to better functionality. My budget isn't super crazy but I do understand it will not be cheap either. I appreciate the replies in advance. Thanks

Dee
If it were me.

1st, separate Home Theater/TV Zones from the picture. WHA and 5.1 locations are two different things. The only overlap I can see is the potential to re-use speakers in the 5.1 zones. Your "rears" in your 5.1 setup, could do double duty in the room as WHA speakers.

WHA is in the ceiling. I know it doesn't have to be that way, some people envision it as L/R speakers too. But WHA is heard not seen.

So identify locations where your want WHA. Do not power zones from two different receivers, that is just confusing, WHA system goal is simplicity.

If you want each room to have its own volume control (and you do), then you need to look to HW. Old days this was a single source, feeding an impedance matching speaker selector, that fed speaker level wires to volume controls in each zone, and up to the speakers. Modern systems have smarter controls that communicate over cat5 wire from the keypad back to the WHA "brain". This allows for more sources and more control.

Sonos and Chromecast take a slightly different route. They move the "Control" from a "wall mount keypad" to a "iDevice". This is good as some keypads get quite expensive per unit, and you don't have to get up to control the zone. These "smart" devices though are meant to be added for each zone.

I like Sonos, I went with a traditional WHA setup with "Sonos Connects" in a central location feeding directly to speakers throughout the house. My friend did that too for his 4 original zones, but has added Sonos Speakers like the Play1 and Play3 to newer rooms. The whole Sonos system can work as WHA solution, which is pretty cool. He has gone further with a playbar at a TV location, when not watching TV, that playbar acts as another zone. (funny thing is that room has old ceiling speakers connected to a Sonos:Amp that can be grouped with the playbar to create a pseudo 5.1 system (he has the Sonos:Sub too))

Sonos is very flexible, but not inexpensive. Trust me, you get what you pay for, and Sonos has done a good job of keeping the equipment software up to date.

Jautor here will recommend you plan for both ways, and wire up keypad locations. I did this too. Before Sonos, when I built my house, I thought I wanted a "Concerto" system. But I wasn't sure. So each zone has a wall plate location with a Cat5 cable at it, plus the speaker wire for the zone passes through that wall plate too. This way I could go any route when I installed my system. Sonos has meant those wall plate locations have never gotten used.

Typically a zone is 2 speakers in a pair. I have a couple zones with 4 speakers, there are some impedance concerns when doing this, but those can be addressed later. Most my WHA speakers are 6.5" JBLs, a couple work zones are Monoprice speakers, and I have rock speakers outside.

Sonos doesn't have to be "home run", that is an advantage. It can be located close to a source, in this case your receiver. The Sonos Connect and Connect:Amp have line-in options. I'll pause for now.
jautor and ahard like this.

Projector: Epson Home Cinema 5030UB
Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-90
Bluray: Sony BDPS5500
Screen: Elite Screens ezFrame Series, 100" 16:9 AT AcousticPro1080P3 FF Screen
+ 6 Sonos Connects, Dayton Audio MA1240a Multi-Zone 12 Channel Amplifier
RBalwinski is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 04-12-2017, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBalwinski View Post
If it were me.

1st, separate Home Theater/TV Zones from the picture. WHA and 5.1 locations are two different things. The only overlap I can see is the potential to re-use speakers in the 5.1 zones. Your "rears" in your 5.1 setup, could do double duty in the room as WHA speakers.

WHA is in the ceiling. I know it doesn't have to be that way, some people envision it as L/R speakers too. But WHA is heard not seen.

So identify locations where your want WHA. Do not power zones from two different receivers, that is just confusing, WHA system goal is simplicity.

If you want each room to have its own volume control (and you do), then you need to look to HW. Old days this was a single source, feeding an impedance matching speaker selector, that fed speaker level wires to volume controls in each zone, and up to the speakers. Modern systems have smarter controls that communicate over cat5 wire from the keypad back to the WHA "brain". This allows for more sources and more control.

Sonos and Chromecast take a slightly different route. They move the "Control" from a "wall mount keypad" to a "iDevice". This is good as some keypads get quite expensive per unit, and you don't have to get up to control the zone. These "smart" devices though are meant to be added for each zone.

I like Sonos, I went with a traditional WHA setup with "Sonos Connects" in a central location feeding directly to speakers throughout the house. My friend did that too for his 4 original zones, but has added Sonos Speakers like the Play1 and Play3 to newer rooms. The whole Sonos system can work as WHA solution, which is pretty cool. He has gone further with a playbar at a TV location, when not watching TV, that playbar acts as another zone. (funny thing is that room has old ceiling speakers connected to a Sonos:Amp that can be grouped with the playbar to create a pseudo 5.1 system (he has the Sonos:Sub too))

Sonos is very flexible, but not inexpensive. Trust me, you get what you pay for, and Sonos has done a good job of keeping the equipment software up to date.

Jautor here will recommend you plan for both ways, and wire up keypad locations. I did this too. Before Sonos, when I built my house, I thought I wanted a "Concerto" system. But I wasn't sure. So each zone has a wall plate location with a Cat5 cable at it, plus the speaker wire for the zone passes through that wall plate too. This way I could go any route when I installed my system. Sonos has meant those wall plate locations have never gotten used.

Typically a zone is 2 speakers in a pair. I have a couple zones with 4 speakers, there are some impedance concerns when doing this, but those can be addressed later. Most my WHA speakers are 6.5" JBLs, a couple work zones are Monoprice speakers, and I have rock speakers outside.

Sonos doesn't have to be "home run", that is an advantage. It can be located close to a source, in this case your receiver. The Sonos Connect and Connect:Amp have line-in options. I'll pause for now.
Again RBalwinski I appreciate the info and your knowledge. Yeah I've also being reading Jautor's comments on a lot of threads here. I would prefer to use I-devices for control instead of keypads but If I don't prewire/wire for zone keypads would I then be "forced" to go with sonos as the primary WHA system due to the ability to control the zone volume via i-device? Meaning in order to control a source in Kit/LR, then TV in the bedroom, and audio at the pool, I'll have to buy a min 3 connects w/ a ext amp to make it work to control volume? But if I go with a WHA controller/amp system and still add the connects for sources, that'll give me the best of both worlds with having keypads and having the ability to have full control of the system thru the sonos app correct? Thanks again

Dee

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
 
post #4 of 22 Old 04-12-2017, 05:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 279
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I do Elan g! systems for this application. Here's what I would do, but this depends on your sources and if page/doorchime is necessary.

Setup 1: No doorchime required

Autonomic Media Controls M801e Amp
Autonomic MMS-1E for source content (streaming, etc)

WHA source inputs split/loop out between all 3 ZC (zone controllers like M801, 2 AVRS)

Zone 1-8 Powered through M801
Zone 9-10 (Family Room, Media Room) Powered by AVR's

g! Control makes everything look feel and act the same.

Setup 2: Doorchime required

2x MRC-6430
Sonos or MMS-1E for source


This is really under thought, but can get you thinking in the right terms.

Use Loop out for source inputs between dual MRC's

MRC #1: Zone 1-4 Regular WHA, Zone 5 Family
MRC #2: Zone 1-4 Regular WHA, Zone 5 Media Room

Could replace Zone 4 on each to Z2 of AVR and use the Z6 output to that AVR for more power out to patio and/or garage (must use third party automation, g!)

Could use g! Control or native MRC-6430 control (self program).


Setup 1,2 can use handheld remotes for TV Zones, Phone or TP for WHA control.I describe Elan but other systems could work similar. Must have two-way drivers for source content.

James Babin - System designer (http://www.myeasytek.com).
Like us on facebook!
JT Babin is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 04-12-2017, 08:39 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: NW Houston, TX
Posts: 10,688
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1327 Post(s)
Liked: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
Again RBalwinski I appreciate the info and your knowledge. Yeah I've also being reading Jautor's comments on a lot of threads here. I would prefer to use I-devices for control instead of keypads but If I don't prewire/wire for zone keypads would I then be "forced" to go with sonos as the primary WHA system due to the ability to control the zone volume via i-device?
Well, most WHA systems have some way to control via mobile app these days - but those may be 3rd-party apps which mean you don't get an integrated (or simple to use) setup. Any of the "zone streamer" systems will have an integrated app solution, though (not just Sonos).

The justification for pre-wiring keypads even for the zone streamer systems is this: If Sonos came out with a wall-mounted touchscreen tomorrow, you might want that! Note that NuVo's Player family and Russound's Xstreamer have this as an option today.

Quote:
Meaning in order to control a source in Kit/LR, then TV in the bedroom, and audio at the pool, I'll have to buy a min 3 connects w/ a ext amp to make it work to control volume? But if I go with a WHA controller/amp system and still add the connects for sources, that'll give me the best of both worlds with having keypads and having the ability to have full control of the system thru the sonos app correct?
No, it's the other way around... You need all sources to route through the Sonos units (regardless if you use the built-in AMP model or an external amp) to get everything integrated into the Sonos app. But even then, control of non-Sonos sources is not included... But realistically, that's probably not a huge deal. My TV audio flows through my WHA, and while I can control the set-top boxes from my keypads, I very rarely do that. Same for AM/FM radio tuners - on/off/volume gets you >95% of the usage, in my experience.

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
NOTE: I am fixing photo links in my theater thread - if you find dead photo links elsewhere, please PM me and I will fix it.
jautor is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 04-12-2017, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Well, most WHA systems have some way to control via mobile app these days - but those may be 3rd-party apps which mean you don't get an integrated (or simple to use) setup. Any of the "zone streamer" systems will have an integrated app solution, though (not just Sonos).

The justification for pre-wiring keypads even for the zone streamer systems is this: If Sonos came out with a wall-mounted touchscreen tomorrow, you might want that! Note that NuVo's Player family and Russound's Xstreamer have this as an option today.



No, it's the other way around... You need all sources to route through the Sonos units (regardless if you use the built-in AMP model or an external amp) to get everything integrated into the Sonos app. But even then, control of non-Sonos sources is not included... But realistically, that's probably not a huge deal. My TV audio flows through my WHA, and while I can control the set-top boxes from my keypads, I very rarely do that. Same for AM/FM radio tuners - on/off/volume gets you >95% of the usage, in my experience.

Jeff
Hey thanks for your reply, I agree with you pre-wiring for keypads and I will do that since all my living quarters are upstairs with attic access and a couple downstairs zones will be a challenge but I'll make it work. So I'm trying to stay in the sub 2k range to get me started, so if I'm understanding you correctly the only "true" way to control all zones source/volume under one interface is to go with a more expensive system (Nuvo, control4, etc) or sonos connect:amp?

If I go with just sonos connects w/ 3 party amp or/controller I would have to rely on the amp to control non sonos sources (tv audio) with supplied keypads instead of the sonos app? Right? I see you run tv audio through your WHA, I would like to do the same, even when ran through the sonos line in I would then in this case need a keypad to control the volume? Does that sound correct? Thanks again

Dee

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 04-12-2017, 09:33 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: NW Houston, TX
Posts: 10,688
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1327 Post(s)
Liked: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
Hey thanks for your reply, I agree with you pre-wiring for keypads and I will do that since all my living quarters are upstairs with attic access and a couple downstairs zones will be a challenge but I'll make it work. So I'm trying to stay in the sub 2k range to get me started, so if I'm understanding you correctly the only "true" way to control all zones source/volume under one interface is to go with a more expensive system (Nuvo, control4, etc) or sonos connect:amp?
Well, kinda... But done carefully, you can start small (with some limitations) and expand over time as budget/usage dictates - without wasting any money.

Quote:
If I go with just sonos connects w/ 3 party amp or/controller I would have to rely on the amp to control non sonos sources (tv audio) with supplied keypads instead of the sonos app? Right?
If you go with a few Sonos Connect units attached to an external amp, you use one of those Connect units as the "bus" input so it goes to most zones. Additional Connect units get "dedicated" to one zone (through the amp's zone-specific input). As you add Connect units over time, you remove zones from the bus, and switch them to their own dedicated Connect. Eventually, you end up with a 1:1 of Connect units to zones. That will end up being about the same total cost (Connects plus amp) as if you bought enough Connect:AMP units (and probably a bit cheaper depending on the number of zones).

You get an amp - not a WHA controller - so that there's no controls on the amp itself, and everything is done through the Sonos app. If you want to attach other sources (like the set-top box audio), you route that to the Line Input on one of the Connect units - which will make it available to all zones via the Sonos network.

Quote:
I see you run tv audio through your WHA, I would like to do the same, even when ran through the sonos line in I would then in this case need a keypad to control the volume? Does that sound correct? Thanks again
Nope, see above. By routing through the Sonos Line Input, you gain control over volume for those devices via the Sonos app. What you don't get is full 'control' of that source device. Meaning, you can't change channels/stations. But getting that via keypads is not likely these days, either - all you're likely to get is the ability to repeat an IR remote signal. And you can do that with RF repeaters regardless (if you truly need it).

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
NOTE: I am fixing photo links in my theater thread - if you find dead photo links elsewhere, please PM me and I will fix it.
jautor is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 04-12-2017, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Well, kinda... But done carefully, you can start small (with some limitations) and expand over time as budget/usage dictates - without wasting any money.



If you go with a few Sonos Connect units attached to an external amp, you use one of those Connect units as the "bus" input so it goes to most zones. Additional Connect units get "dedicated" to one zone (through the amp's zone-specific input). As you add Connect units over time, you remove zones from the bus, and switch them to their own dedicated Connect. Eventually, you end up with a 1:1 of Connect units to zones. That will end up being about the same total cost (Connects plus amp) as if you bought enough Connect:AMP units (and probably a bit cheaper depending on the number of zones).

You get an amp - not a WHA controller - so that there's no controls on the amp itself, and everything is done through the Sonos app. If you want to attach other sources (like the set-top box audio), you route that to the Line Input on one of the Connect units - which will make it available to all zones via the Sonos network.



Nope, see above. By routing through the Sonos Line Input, you gain control over volume for those devices via the Sonos app. What you don't get is full 'control' of that source device. Meaning, you can't change channels/stations. But getting that via keypads is not likely these days, either - all you're likely to get is the ability to repeat an IR remote signal. And you can do that with RF repeaters regardless (if you truly need it).

Jeff
Ok now I get it, in my case buying a external amp or going with a couple sonos amps and pre wiring for keypads would be better than going with a WHA system integrated with connects. I would get more power and functionality going that route and can always add to it seamlessly and everyone can use the system without holding a training session with the family. They can use one app on their phone/tablet and enjoy. Thanks everyone for the info.

Dee
jautor and ahard like this.

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 04-13-2017, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Hey RBalwinski did you start with 6 connects and amp or did you start with a couple and expanded later? Since I'm starting out with 3 connects, I'm trying to figure out should I go with the Dayton amp and a couple of generic VCs to control volume in zones that are on the global input or go with say the monoprice 6 zone that have keypads for every zone if/when I need them until I get to a 1:1 setup? I know going with the amp I'll get more power than going with the controller, so I guess I have to give and take somewhere.

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 04-13-2017, 04:22 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: NW Houston, TX
Posts: 10,688
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1327 Post(s)
Liked: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
Hey RBalwinski did you start with 6 connects and amp or did you start with a couple and expanded later? Since I'm starting out with 3 connects, I'm trying to figure out should I go with the Dayton amp and a couple of generic VCs to control volume in zones that are on the global input or go with say the monoprice 6 zone that have keypads for every zone if/when I need them until I get to a 1:1 setup? I know going with the amp I'll get more power than going with the controller, so I guess I have to give and take somewhere.
I would stick with the Dayton or other passive 12-channel amp instead of a WHA controller in this case. The reason is that if and when you expand your system eventually to a 1:1 Sonos:Connect-to-Zone ratio, you don't want that controller in the way. Because it would be in the way, having to turn it on/off from the keypads in addition to anything you do from the Sonos app. By using just the passive amp, you may never need to touch your VC's, and you'll never have to touch an additional keypad just to get the system on.

That's not saying keypads aren't useful - it's an argument against non-integrated solutions... Which you'd have with the passive amp (with a bit a of cheat for budgetary reasons...)


Jeff
ahard and deemac76 like this.

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
NOTE: I am fixing photo links in my theater thread - if you find dead photo links elsewhere, please PM me and I will fix it.
jautor is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 04-13-2017, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
I would stick with the Dayton or other passive 12-channel amp instead of a WHA controller in this case. The reason is that if and when you expand your system eventually to a 1:1 Sonos:Connect-to-Zone ratio, you don't want that controller in the way. Because it would be in the way, having to turn it on/off from the keypads in addition to anything you do from the Sonos app. By using just the passive amp, you may never need to touch your VC's, and you'll never have to touch an additional keypad just to get the system on.

That's not saying keypads aren't useful - it's an argument against non-integrated solutions... Which you'd have with the passive amp (with a bit a of cheat for budgetary reasons...)


Jeff
Yeah I agree with that. It makes perfect sense to keep it as simple as possible as I move to a all sonos setup. Then at that point I'll utilize idevices as keypads and controllers using the sonos app. I'm thinking what I'll do is wire my main 2 zones to be controlled by the 2 connects, so that I have total control of those zones via app. Then the others zones via the bus input using the 3rd connect so they are only on when I need them. Is that how that should work till I get the other connects to complete the system?

Dee

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 04-13-2017, 06:05 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
jautor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: NW Houston, TX
Posts: 10,688
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1327 Post(s)
Liked: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
I'm thinking what I'll do is wire my main 2 zones to be controlled by the 2 connects, so that I have total control of those zones via app. Then the others zones via the bus input using the 3rd connect so they are only on when I need them. Is that how that should work till I get the other connects to complete the system?
That is exactly what I would do...

Give your main zones their independence, "secondary" zones share a source and may have to deal with some fiddling of volume controls to adjust or turn off unwanted music. How often those zones get used and under what conditions will help you decide (along with budget) when and where to add more Connect units.

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
NOTE: I am fixing photo links in my theater thread - if you find dead photo links elsewhere, please PM me and I will fix it.
jautor is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 04-13-2017, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
That is exactly what I would do...

Give your main zones their independence, "secondary" zones share a source and may have to deal with some fiddling of volume controls to adjust or turn off unwanted music. How often those zones get used and under what conditions will help you decide (along with budget) when and where to add more Connect units.

Jeff
Good deal! That's the way I'll go then. Thanks Jautor and others for your help!!!

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 04-14-2017, 04:16 AM
Member
 
RBalwinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Macomb, MI
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
Hey RBalwinski did you start with 6 connects and amp or did you start with a couple and expanded later?
I started with two Connects. I never used the bus input on the Amp. I basically picked up speakers + Connect as I was ready to add another zone. Knowing I was going to have at least 6 zones, the Dayton + 6 Connects was cheaper than 6 Connect:Amps alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
I'm thinking what I'll do is wire my main 2 zones to be controlled by the 2 connects, so that I have total control of those zones via app. Then the others zones via the bus input using the 3rd connect so they are only on when I need them. Is that how that should work till I get the other connects to complete the system?
Yes exactly. Expect to expand quickly.
jautor, ahard and deemac76 like this.

Projector: Epson Home Cinema 5030UB
Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-90
Bluray: Sony BDPS5500
Screen: Elite Screens ezFrame Series, 100" 16:9 AT AcousticPro1080P3 FF Screen
+ 6 Sonos Connects, Dayton Audio MA1240a Multi-Zone 12 Channel Amplifier
RBalwinski is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 04-15-2017, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBalwinski View Post
I started with two Connects. I never used the bus input on the Amp. I basically picked up speakers + Connect as I was ready to add another zone. Knowing I was going to have at least 6 zones, the Dayton + 6 Connects was cheaper than 6 Connect:Amps alone.



Yes exactly. Expect to expand quickly.
Thanks I now have a pretty clear picture on how to get this started. I appreciate the replies from everyone!!! Thanks

Dee

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 08-25-2017, 08:56 AM
Member
 
bairdmj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
Thanks I now have a pretty clear picture on how to get this started. I appreciate the replies from everyone!!! Thanks

Dee
Sorry for resurrecting such an old thread, but I have a similar situation here.

I'm about to start a new build. For the WHA zones, I'm thinking of doing the same thing - using a 12channel/6-zone amp with Sonos Connect's as sources. I'll probably start with 2-3 Connects and eventually build up to a 1:1 ratio of zones:Connects as discussed here.

For this reason, I think I'm still planning on installing physical volume controls so that:

a) I can control volume independently for my 'bus' or 'global' zone that doesn't have it's own Connect unit
b) To allow guests and such to control volume without an iDevice

I'll also wire CAT6 to these locations in case I ever want to put a keypad/tablet in this location instead of physical volume controls. I'm also planning on cabling the 'global out' of my WHA amp (Episide 12) to an input in my HT/7.2 zone so it can be utilized for WHA as well. Likewise, I can cable my HT AVR's pre-out to an input on one of the connects so that my HT AVR can be used as a source for my WHA.

Does this seem reasonable?

@deemac76 : did you install physical volume controls as well?
bairdmj is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 08-25-2017, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by bairdmj View Post
Sorry for resurrecting such an old thread, but I have a similar situation here.

I'm about to start a new build. For the WHA zones, I'm thinking of doing the same thing - using a 12channel/6-zone amp with Sonos Connect's as sources. I'll probably start with 2-3 Connects and eventually build up to a 1:1 ratio of zones:Connects as discussed here.

For this reason, I think I'm still planning on installing physical volume controls so that:

a) I can control volume independently for my 'bus' or 'global' zone that doesn't have it's own Connect unit
b) To allow guests and such to control volume without an iDevice

I'll also wire CAT6 to these locations in case I ever want to put a keypad/tablet in this location instead of physical volume controls. I'm also planning on cabling the 'global out' of my WHA amp (Episide 12) to an input in my HT/7.2 zone so it can be utilized for WHA as well. Likewise, I can cable my HT AVR's pre-out to an input on one of the connects so that my HT AVR can be used as a source for my WHA.

Does this seem reasonable?

@deemac76 : did you install physical volume controls as well?
Yeah everything you stated should work fine. No I didn't install volume controls yet because at this moment they're not needed. I have 4 connects right now with my Episode 12/6 amp (Pool, Mstr Bed/Bath, Hall, LR/Kit) and it works perfect on my idevices. As it grows I'll install controls in rooms that are needed but even then I'll probably just use idevices. Now that I'm thinking about it the only way that I would probably install in wall controls would be if I scrap the sonos setup and go with one of those full WHA/Video setups (i.e. Control 4, etc). For right now I love the sonos setup and my wife loves it because it's easy for her to hit a app and she's off and running.

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 08-25-2017, 10:25 AM
Member
 
bairdmj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by deemac76 View Post
Yeah everything you stated should work fine. No I didn't install volume controls yet because at this moment they're not needed. I have 4 connects right now with my Episode 12/6 amp (Pool, Mstr Bed/Bath, Hall, LR/Kit) and it works perfect on my idevices. As it grows I'll install controls in rooms that are needed but even then I'll probably just use idevices. Now that I'm thinking about it the only way that I would probably install in wall controls would be if I scrap the sonos setup and go with one of those full WHA/Video setups (i.e. Control 4, etc). For right now I love the sonos setup and my wife loves it because it's easy for her to hit a app and she's off and running.
Without physical volume controls, the volume level would have to be the same (and always on) for all zones that are associated to the "global" bus-zone though, right? So, for example, if my master and office shared the same CONNECT (same zone), they would have to be playing at the same volume?
bairdmj is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 08-25-2017, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deemac76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by bairdmj View Post
Without physical volume controls, the volume level would have to be the same (and always on) for all zones that are associated to the "global" bus-zone though, right? So, for example, if my master and office shared the same CONNECT (same zone), they would have to be playing at the same volume?
Yes that is correct. I have that issue when it comes to two of my zones (mstr bed/bath and LR/Kit). Ideally I would like to split the Master up but in due time. My LR/Kit zone is all open to each other so there isnt any need to add a connect for that. I would like to add 2 more connects to complete my system, 1 for my garage and another one for the masterbath.

Living Room Home Theater
Vizio M70-D3, Denon AVR-X3200w 5.1.2 ATMOS, Samsung K8500 UHD Player, Playstation 4
2x Klipsch 280F/Klipsch RP-450c/4x CDT-5800-C II/Klipsch R-112sw
Media Room Theater
120" Elite Screen, BenQ W1070, Denon AVR-X4100w 7.1, HTPC/Plex, Playstation 4
2x Polk Audio RTi9/Polk CSi A6/4x Polk Audio 80F/X-RT/Polk DSW PRO 550wi
deemac76 is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 08-25-2017, 02:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,312
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 400 Post(s)
Liked: 223
And of course we are all now going to be talking (nicely) to our SONOS systems!

Joe

Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

Ruipro UK and EU Sales and Support

The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial system Design, Consultancy, Installation, Supply and Integration.
Joe Fernand is online now  
post #21 of 22 Old 08-27-2017, 09:39 AM
Member
 
bairdmj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
And of course we are all now going to be talking (nicely) to our SONOS systems!

Joe
Oh, did they finally announce official Alexa support?
bairdmj is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 08-27-2017, 10:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 2,312
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 400 Post(s)
Liked: 223
The latest Firmware update T&C's paves the way for Voice control.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

Ruipro UK and EU Sales and Support

The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial system Design, Consultancy, Installation, Supply and Integration.
Joe Fernand is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Home A/V Distribution

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off