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Old 09-09-2003, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Buzz, I took the liberty of starting a thread to ask some questions about your product. With permission from Alan Gouger.

Could you start by telling us a little bit about the formation of NetStreams the company - and its founders? And how you hooked up with them? Are you a principal?

Perhaps you could fill everyone in on your illustrious background as well .
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Old 09-09-2003, 06:11 PM
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I'd actually like to hear a MSRP on some of the products..

and which digital devices does it interface with directly or is everything controlled via IR blaster?
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Old 09-10-2003, 08:48 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by QQQ
Buzz, I took the liberty of starting a thread to ask some questions about your product. With permission from Alan Gouger.

Could you start by telling us a little bit about the formation of NetStreams the company - and its founders?


NetStreams is a privately held company based in Austin, TX, the live music capital of the world. It is also an excellent place for companies involved in high tech, especially networking.
The company was founded by a group of people who had been part of the Connected Home Initiative. This was a joint R&D project with GE, Smart and Microsoft.
The founders of NetStreams saw much potential in the use of networking technologies to distribute entertainment in the home. That is the focus of the company.


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And how you hooked up with them?

I was consulting and a colleague suggested I speak with them. I visited with them in Austin (I live outside of Boston) and was immediately captivated by the company vision and the passion of the people. I ended up finalizing my other consulting jobs and working with the company full time, running the sales and marketing effort.



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Perhaps you could fill everyone in on your illustrious background as well .

I spent quite a few years in retail, often in service and custom installation (although we didn't know to call it that back in the late 70's..).
I worked with Henry Kloss at Kloss Video making projection TV's, then was hired by Lexicon to get them into the consumer business (they were strictly pro until that point). I ran that operation for 13 years, then started consulting for other CE manufacturers. And here I am.

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Old 09-10-2003, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Buzz,

I notice on your web site (http://www.netstreams.com/PDFs/DigiL...erview%203.pdf) that DigiLinX can support up to 1,800,000 sources and 1,800,000 rooms. As Murphy's law would have it, I'm building a big house with 1,800,001 rooms. It's very important to me that I be able to play a separate soure in each room simultaneously (I have a large family). Is there any way I can expand the system to 1,800,001 zones? And I'm hoping I won't have to pay an arm and a leg just to add one extra zone.
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Old 09-10-2003, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, serious question.

NetStreams seems to work exclusively based on the concept of local room amplifiers. From what I have seen so far those amplifiers can be:
1. In/on the speaker.
2. In/on the volume control.

Are there other local room amplifier options? i.e.
1. In/on the keypad?
2. Separate standalone amplifiers?

What if someone wanted to use expensive Triad speakers as an example, and wanted to use the best amplifier possible with them. What would be the options?

Why isn't NetStreams offering a central amplifier (in addition to local amplifier options)? Couldn't NetStreams (technically) do everything it does and also use a central amplifier? Other than having the amplifier close to the speakers, is there some other major benefit that having the amplifier local offers, in the NetStream scheme of things.

I am going to download the manuals on the web site when I get a chance and read over the system. BTW, the web site really needs to be designed so that users can right click on the large Acrobat files and download them (since the site is all Flash, it won't allow it).
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Old 09-10-2003, 10:48 AM
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As soon as you send in the purchase order for that job, we'll handle your expansion.
The limit is in this case defined by the number of IP addresses in IPv4.
We can move you over to IPv6 and you can then populate every square foot of the earth's surface with your house and we still got ya covered.

BTW, where di you make all your money


Seriously, it is of course hyperbolic to talk about that many sources and rooms, but it is in theory possible. The really nice thing is the ability to add devices in the future with minimal cost, either in hardware or programming.

We avoid what we call the Tivo effect.
That's the one where someone with a nice house all controlled by say an AMX or Crestron system, then they call up their dealer to have them add in the Tivo they just picked up on sale for $199.
Then the integrator has to inform them it will cost $1200 to install and integrate the Tivo into the system. No one is happy with that!

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Old 09-10-2003, 10:56 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dan marquardt
I'd actually like to hear a MSRP on some of the products..


The current products are designed for professional installation by custom integrators. They are not "retail" oriented and thus there is no MSRP.
to further complicate things, there is alomst always several solutions for each job and they vary in cost.
Perhaps the best benchmark would be to say that in a say common 4 source/6 room system, you would look at between $800-$2500 per room.
Variables include power required, color or mono displays (or none at all if you plan on using say a PDA or a big touchscreen).


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and which digital devices does it interface with directly or is everything controlled via IR blaster?

There are two systems. The current Musica system talks with everything via IR or RS-232.
The new DigiLinX IP based system talks via IR or preferably Ethernet.
So if you have a rich source with meta-data (like a hard disk server or satellite radio) we extract and present that data for the user. And the information is displayed on an web browser enabled device.

One of the options in the DigiLinX system is an internal XM Satellite Radio card (likely we will be offering Sirius as well if there is demand for it).
It makes a great source as there is lots of information contained in the stream that we can show the user, making it really easy to control what you are listening to, even for non geeks

We love devices that are networkable. For example, the AudioReQuest units. Normally they have only one output, so if you want to have multiple listeners in the house be able to hear different music, you have to buy multiple AudioReQuest servers.
But with DigiLinX, we talk to the unit via Ethernet and can extract multiple streams for a single unit. The cost saving there can pay for an entire system! BTW, we do our streams uncompressed so it's not just MP3 type files we deal with, but we can also take and distribute a direct digital out from a CD player and accept the full 16 bit signal. It sounds great!

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Old 09-10-2003, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
The new DigiLinX IP based system talks via IR or preferably Ethernet.

Or RS-232 when Ethernet is not available I hope?
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Old 09-10-2003, 11:11 AM
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There are lots of RS-232 to Ethernet converters available.
We just showed our own at CEDIA that has firmware embedded for controlling our musica system (non-IP based audio distribution).

RS-232 is not a problem, but is slow and cumbersome and will rapidly be ditched in favor of Ethernet ports. They will become ubiquitous on everything from TV's to CD players.

Our industry has been crying for a standardized control interface and we finally have one. And it's one the rest of the world already uses extensively.

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Old 09-10-2003, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Agreed, I just thought it would be nice to have RS-232 built in as I see it sticking around for quite a few years before everything switches over the Ethernet. But I can see where it makes sense for you to not put in on and not make people that don't need it pay for it.

Yes, I would LOVE to see a standardized interface. I would love to never have to look at another bleeping%$#! IR emitter again!
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Old 09-10-2003, 11:58 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by QQQ
OK, serious question.

NetStreams seems to work exclusively based on the concept of local room amplifiers. From what I have seen so far those amplifiers can be:
1. In/on the speaker.
2. In/on the volume control.

Are there other local room amplifier options? i.e.
1. In/on the keypad?
2. Separate standalone amplifiers?

The amplifier can be located wherever you like. There will be many amplifier options.
We don't offer one In/on the volume control. But you certainly can mount one right next to a volume control if you just want an attenuator.

Quote:


What if someone wanted to use expensive Triad speakers as an example, and wanted to use the best amplifier possible with them. What would be the options?

Use whatever amplifier you would like. We have a device called an Audio Port which allows local input and output. So you can use this device (called an Expansion Interface Module in the current Musica system) to add not only a local source but also a local amplifier of your choosing.. In the case of Triad, since the excel in built in loudspeakers you may wish to bury the amp in the wall along with them, but many amplifiers would not pass the local building code for that application. However, knowing how future-thinking Larry et al at Triad are, I suspect you will see an elegant integration offering in the not too distant future


Quote:


Why isn't NetStreams offering a central amplifier (in addition to local amplifier options)? Couldn't NetStreams (technically) do everything it does and also use a central amplifier? Other than having the amplifier close to the speakers, is there some other major benefit that having the amplifier local offers, in the NetStreams scheme of things.

Some of the amplifiers may indeed live in the head end rack. It is of course not the best place to put it from a amplifier/speaker interface standpoint, but it may be the most convenient. We don't really care where the amplifier is mounted.

That said, by distributing the amplifiers, you greatly increase the reliability of the entire system.
Amplifiers are inefficient and the byproduct of their inefficiency is heat. And heat is the enemy of longevity in electronics. So if you separate the amplifiers away for the rest of the electronics, in theory you have increased the longevity of your components.

Quote:


I am going to download the manuals on the web site when I get a chance and read over the system. BTW, the web site really needs to be designed so that users can right click on the large Acrobat files and download them (since the site is all Flash, it won't allow it).

Arrghh, I am wrestling with that as we speak.
Flash is cool but we will be making some changes to make it easier to get at info. I appreciate the feedback.

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Old 09-10-2003, 11:25 PM
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Hi Buzz,

Thanks for taking time here to help educate users and dealers alike!

The new products are definitely interesting...but nobody wants to settle. When do you guys plan to take on Video with the same networked distribution approach?

I finally just came around to spec'ing a simple job with a Musica system last month and now I'm looking forward to learning a lot more about Netstream's new gear.

Do you guys have open doors in Austin to dealers? I might have to bring a crew down for a tour.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
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Old 09-11-2003, 06:49 AM
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I already know the answer to this but perhaps others might wish to know the recommended wiring for the new DigiLinX system. It is a little unusual.

Alan
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Old 09-11-2003, 07:50 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by audiblesolutions
I already know the answer to this but perhaps others might wish to know the recommended wiring for the new DigiLinX system. It is a little unusual.

Alan


Hi Alan,

Apparently you were by the booth, I am very sorry we didn't connect.

I consider our wiring to be, as the Brits would say, bog standard.

It is simply 14/4 and CAT 5e. That is the way nearly all distributed audio systems are wired (and as you well know, very standard practice for any professional installer as it maximizes options.

But,,,,(and there is always that but), we do suggest something currently unusual.

We like to see CAT 5e pulled all the way to the speakers.

There are two reasons for that.
First, we like to see the amplifier as close to the speaker as possible. That is certainly nothing new or radical, and it is the preferred placement from both a loudspeaker and amplifier designer's viewpoint. It minimizes power loss and increasing damping factor and control.
It also lends itself to using some of the DSP in a SpeakerLinX module to perform the crossover functions in the digital domain and bi-amplifying the speaker. That is an ideal scenario.

The second reason has to do with our view that the speaker may well become more then a one way audio transducer. We are starting to cram so much technology into rooms that people are objecting to all the devices mounted into the ceiling and walls.

For example a room might have controls for HVAC, Ir reception and transmission, lighting, intercom, security, audio, telephony, baby monitoring, wireless access points, etc. That's a lot of stuff on the walls!

If we can move some of these functions into either a universal keypad (Hmmm, should it be IP powered) or the speaker, we have saved a lot of real estate in the room, reduced clutter and cut down on material cost, labor etc.

Perhaps we don't want anything but a simple light switch on the wall. Since we are installing speakers for sound, perhaps we should integrate a small mic into it, as well as an IR receiver and perhaps put in a PCMCIA slot.
Now our "speaker" is also able to handle intercom, security monitoring, voice mail, paging, IR reception etc. One of the things we realized too is that metal mesh grill on the speaker can be utilized as a very high performance WiFi antenna.

So we see the speaker as more then a speaker.
We think of it as a gateway. We have quite a few patents pending on aspects of this.

To recap, we suggest the standard 14/4~CAT 5e from the headend to each room. The only extra bit we suggest is to continue the CAT5e portion up to the speaker, rather then stopping at the keypad location.
Of course, if it is a retrofit and the CAT 5e does stop at the keypad location, that is absolutely no problem. Just mount the amplifier there.

The amplifier could, as previously observed in this thread, be mounted out at the head end as well. The system does not "care" where the amplifier is located.

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Old 09-11-2003, 10:36 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bhuskins
Hi Buzz,

Thanks for taking time here to help educate users and dealers alike!

The new products are definitely interesting...but nobody wants to settle. When do you guys plan to take on Video with the same networked distribution approach?


That is next years main project.


Quote:


I finally just came around to spec'ing a simple job with a Musica system last month and now I'm looking forward to learning a lot more about Netstream's new gear.

Do you guys have open doors in Austin to dealers? I might have to bring a crew down for a tour.

YOu'll love installing Musica. It is quick, easy and intuitive to install. We get incredibly nice feedback from people who own them. They love the ease of use and especially the aesthetics. We sometimes get so into the technical side we forget how important it is to have an understated, elegant look.

We would be delighted to arrange a tour. We have a very nice facility in Austin (and it is of course a great city to visit). Most of a facility tour might be a little boring as you'd just see the backs of lots of people coding away on their workstations

We'll also be doing road show presentations late this Fall, including one in Dallas over at AVD (their showroom is even nicer then ours). And it is a bit less of a road trip then Austin.

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Old 09-11-2003, 10:57 AM
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Mike knows who I am - much to his dismay. And I did see you run in and out of the booth. But for a change I kept my mouth shut

Alan
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Old 09-11-2003, 11:40 AM
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Hooo boy........

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Old 09-11-2003, 05:35 PM
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Buzz - when will the digital system be available? I'm on the verge of a purchase and I'm not sure how long I can hold out...
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Old 09-11-2003, 07:11 PM
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Buzz,
Hate to be pest, but DigiLinX's press release says Q4 2003 as when the product will be shipping. Is this still the case?

Also, can you throw up some DigiLinX pictures on your website? Especially some of the KeyLinX and UI would be highly appreciated.

Life is short. Enjoy!
Andrew.
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Old 09-11-2003, 08:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Tech-Law
Buzz - when will the digital system be available? I'm on the verge of a purchase and I'm not sure how long I can hold out...


Then get a Musica system now and we'll upgrade you when DigiLinX ships.
Never wait if you don't have to. Life is too short!

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Old 09-11-2003, 08:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by midi-guy
Buzz,
Hate to be pest, but DigiLinX's press release says Q4 2003 as when the product will be shipping. Is this still the case?

There are many possible components to the system, but right now that is our best guess. Hardware is done, so it's finishing code and test, test, test.


Quote:


Also, can you throw up some DigiLinX pictures on your website? Especially some of the KeyLinX and UI would be highly appreciated.

there is a lot to do on the site at the moment, particularly as it all in flash at the moment. You may have to bare with us a bit for that. Any particular UI you are interested in?

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Old 09-11-2003, 09:20 PM
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You got it as long as the upgrade be free of charge for us AVS Forum guys?
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Old 09-12-2003, 08:49 AM
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Actually the goal is to provide it for only the difference in cost between the two systems, which would be a very sweet deal (kinda like a free rental of the Musica system).
We are working on the details of that now.

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Old 09-12-2003, 12:18 PM
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Would the required wiring be applicable to both systems or would I have additional wires for the Musica system that would not be used for the DigiLinx - or vice versa?
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Old 09-12-2003, 01:18 PM
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The wiring is identical for both Musica and DigiLinX, right down to the terminations.
The only difference is the flexibility of amplifier mounting positions for DigiLinX. Many people are looking to mount the amp right at the speaker. Where ever it is mounted, you would like CAT 5e connection to it.

With Musica, the amplifier is attached to the keypad so there is the temptation to end the CAT 5e run right there.

We have always suggested the installer pull 14/4~CAT 5e from the head end to the keypad location, drop a service loop there then continue the wire right up to the speaker. Following that practice ensures maximum compatibility.

Feel free to contact me directly if you need more specifics.

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Old 09-13-2003, 05:59 AM
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I second the request for photos of the DigiLinx systems on your website.
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Old 09-15-2003, 02:24 PM
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I'll attach a few interface images here.
The screens are grafted onto a crude keypad image, but they help get the point across ( I Hope)

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Old 09-15-2003, 02:30 PM
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KeyLinX normal mode (playing source XM)
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Old 09-15-2003, 02:37 PM
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PDA style interface (browsing artist list on AudioReQuest).
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Old 09-15-2003, 02:41 PM
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Simple Web browser interface, (whole house blueprint view)
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