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Old 03-16-2001, 02:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I would like to set up an ir distribution system. What I'm doing is seeing if my parents like TIVO, if they do they will get one and expand the system in their house. However if Dad balks on the idea I'd like to take the system to school and get TIVO in my bedroom from the TIVO in the TV room.

Currently the parents have two DSS receivers and an OTA antenna for local channels. They run the output of the DSS into a channel plus and that sends the DSS signals on Channels 16 and 18. The OTA local TV comes through on the normal SF/Bay Area stations. Right now one DSS is RF and one is IR. So we have a bunch of RF remotes around the house that communicate with the RF DSS. The system has IR for the IR DSS but it has never worked. Even with help from tech support.

This is primarily for my mom and she only watches TV in the room by the kitchen because she can't get up the stairs anymore as she is getting old. The DSS and stuff are one floor up and one room over. The rooms are about 24 feet long. I'd like to hook the TIVO up to the IR DSS and OTA upstairs and transmit on channel 16 which is now not in use. (Just the RF is used cuz the IR doesn't) So what I need to do is transmit the IR signal from downstairs to upstairs.

Eventually I'm going to take the TIVO to school and if they don't want the system any more I want to take the system to school so I can have TIVO in my bedroom. Therefore, I'd rather not have wires everywhere wireless would be best. I want to make that transition as easy as possible.

In the event that they get hooked on TIVO I want to be able to expand the system around the house and garage. As stated before we have RF DSS remotes all over. I'd need to expand the system to one other TV in the main house that is equidistant from the original room. (The Master Bedroom) And possibly my dad's office. The office is in the garage. The garage is far off the house but the Sony RF remote can still reach the main house. Sometimes you have to aim the remote at the house depending on the house. So I need to expand the system to 2 more TVs and maybe even more in time.

Being a student I'd really like to keep costs down when doing the one TV. If the parents expand it they have lots of $$$ and can pay but for the beginning lower cost is best.

Hmmm I think that is all. Please help. I sure do appreciate it.



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Old 03-16-2001, 03:29 PM
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Evan,
I'm a little confused about the comment "The system has IR for the IR DSS but it has never worked. Even with help from tech support."
Are you referring to the ChannelPlus product? If so, let's get that working. That would probably be the cheapest route. What model ChannelPlus do your folks have?


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Old 03-16-2001, 04:09 PM
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I am a bit confused also.
Are you asking how to distribute the signals in our parents house or in your school dorm room?

Do you already have video distributed using a ChannelPlus modulator and need help with the IR remote control only?

I feel you are asking about different scenarios at once so I don't know where to start. Where is the TiVo now? Is the TiVo signal as of now being distributed to any other room and how? Which rooms do you want the TiVo signal distributed to? How many coaxial cable runs are currently wired in the house?

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Old 03-16-2001, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Well they don't care anymore about getting the channel plus to work, he went out and bought all those expensive RF remotes. It had these emitter things that you stick over the receiver’s IR on the front. They had little red lights and got plugged into the channel plus box. Then there were little boxes at each TV that the coax plugged into. You were supposed to put the box on top of the TV to get it to work for ir. It never worked.

Now what I'm doing is getting a TIVO for my self at school. I think the TIVO would be a boon to my parents. What I'm going to do over the next two / three weeks is set up my TIVO at home so my mom can get a taste. If she likes it, she'll force Dad to get his own.

My mom can't walk up stairs anymore so she only uses the downstairs TV. So I need to get an IR signal to the TIVO upstairs where it will be plugged into the IR DSS receiver that is no longer used but they still pay for each month. It runs a big TV that they watch movies on once a month. It is either a Sony SAT A-2 and a Sony SAT B-2. (whichever one is an IR only receiver) I don't want to touch other DSS which is a RF receiver. My dad uses that in his office and I want mom to have freedom to enjoy the TIVO.

Then after a few weeks I'm going to take the TIVO to school. I'd like to put the TIVO in my living room and use it with my main TV. Then I'll route the coax cable to my bedroom TV into the TIVO. I'd like to have a non-invasive solution for that. Landlords don't like it when I go drilling into their drywall.

Essentially it is two questions, one for my parent’s home and one for school. I'd like to kill two birds with one stone.

I'll get that Channel Plus model from my dad ASAP.


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Old 03-16-2001, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Rich,
could you take a look at: http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000460.html
it is a problem my dad has had and neiter of us can figure out.

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Old 03-16-2001, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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K he took a look at it. All he could see on the unit is listed below.

Channel Plus
Dual Video Modulator
Broadband Amplifier
IR Repeating System

He is going to take the screws out tomarow and see if there is anything on the back / wall side.

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Old 03-16-2001, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I found the little black boxes that never worked:
http://www.channelplus.com/images/products/2133sm.jpg

The wire that went from the channelplus box to the DSS reciever:
http://www.channelplus.com/images/products/2173sm.jpg
(looks the same but the one he has, has a end nub that looks much more smooth)

This is the channel plus box but on the back it says 3024 not 3025.
http://www.channelplus.com/images/products/3025.jpg


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[This message has been edited by eaadams (edited 03-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by eaadams (edited 03-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by eaadams (edited 03-17-2001).]

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Old 03-17-2001, 05:04 AM
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Evan-
I know that myself and others would sure like to try and help, but your descriptions are still very confusing. If you can figure out a way to better articulate what you're trying to do, I'm sure you'll get plenty of help.

I'm not sure if you're aking about how to distribute IR or how to distribute video, and I'm not sure where you're trying to distribute it. Look at www.xantech.com for info about distribution. Also read this http://www.channelplus.com/AP_note_files/howdoi.htm and see if it helps.

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Old 03-17-2001, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The parents allready have a video distribution system. I know how to do that. However, I still need to get the IR signal from one room to another. The channel plus should beable to do the IR work if I can get it working. But if I can't. I need a solution to send the IR signal from my parents family room to a room upstairs. If they don't like the TIVO then I'm taking the IR system to school with me. So I dont want to have to run any wires if I can help it because I may need to take it with me.

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Old 03-17-2001, 04:09 PM
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Evan,
Do you have the manual for the 3024? Pleaer refer to it, or download a 3025 manual from our web site.

Hooking up the 2133 and checking it ...
1) Disconnect the coax from the rear of the TV in the kitchen.
2) Connect this coax to the SYS connector on the 2133.
3) Add a coax jumper from the TV connector on the 2133 back to the TV.
4) The TV should work OK now. Set the 2133 near the TV, not on it yet.
5) With all TVs in the house ON, look at the 2034. There is an LED that has "IR" labled on it. This LED should be off. (There are several possible causes if this LED is not off. We will have to stop and fix before continuing.)
6) Have someone direct the TIVO IR wand at the 2133 and push buttons. The IR LED on the 3024 should blink. (If not, we will have to stop and fix before continuing.)
7)Plug in the 2173 IR emitter. Direct this at the front of the TIVO from about 1 foot away. If the TIVO is responding to the IR signals, locate the IR sensor on the TIVO and stick the 2173 over the sensor. If you can't see the sensor, you may have to move the 2173 around while someone pushes buttons on the remote.

My guess is that you will have a problem at step 5, 6 or 7. Let me know.

Problem 2 ... static in audio when DSS switches. Here is what I think you are telling me:
1) This only happens on one DSS receiver.
2) This only happens on one TV.
Do I understand correctly?

I usually only look at AVS once or twice on weekdays. So I may not see any response before Monday.
I designed all of this stuff. We should be able to get it to work. Most problems are installation related. The IR sections virtually never fail. We are sorry that our customer service was not able to help your father. Troubleshooting over the phone is often very difficult. We would like to keep trying.

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Old 03-17-2001, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I'll take a look at the IR stuff next week when I get home after finals to try this out.

W/ Problem two:
Yes, it is only one DSS
- The RF sony DSS
Yes, it is only one TV
- The TV in his office, cable run from the house to the garage.
- The cable is underground in a conduit that has other AV cables.
- The only other cables in that conduit is 6 phone lines, and the DSS main cable. The DSS Satalite Dish is on the roof in the Garage.

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Old 03-19-2001, 01:29 PM
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Evan,
Regarding your 'noisy audio when DSS changes channels' problem ...

You first need to isolate the cause of your problem. Change only one thing at a time and evaluate if the nature of the problem changes.

First, determine if this is an incompatiblility between the TV and ChannelPlus, or the TV and the DSS receiver. Exchange the DSS inputs (move the wires from input A to input B). Do not re-program the 3024. Is the problem still associated with the same DSS receiver on its new channel, or is the other DSS receiver now showing this problem?
Let me know what happens.

Good luck with finals. What is your major?

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Old 03-22-2001, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm done with finals and on spring break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YAHOOOO ... I had real good finals this week. I think I got a 4.0
I'm a political science student, I'd like to be a lobyest for the A/V industry when I'm all grown up. (bout 20-30 years)

I'm on my way home and am going to work on this at the sorce of the problem. Expect a flood of posts in about 4 hours.

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Old 03-22-2001, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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HAHA! So I get home and follow the instructions to check everything on getting the IR to work. I go to the channel plus ... everything hooked up and the little red light is blinking. Then I take a closer look. The IR cable out of the channel plus and to the DSS reciever has a piece of tape on it. It turnsout that my dad when he was instaling it cut the IR cable in half to try to make it longer. He connected a speaker cable between the cable. I could have never guessed it.

So can he do this? Use a speaker wire to extend the signal? If not I need to get a new IR cable. How do I buy one? How do I get a long one? How do I extend a short one?

Thanks!

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Old 03-22-2001, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by eaadams:
HAHA! So I get home and follow the instructions to check everything on getting the IR to work. I go to the channel plus ... everything hooked up and the little red light is blinking. Then I take a closer look. The IR cable out of the channel plus and to the DSS reciever has a piece of tape on it. It turnsout that my dad when he was instaling it cut the IR cable in half to try to make it longer. He connected a speaker cable between the cable. I could have never guessed it.

So can he do this? Use a speaker wire to extend the signal? If not I need to get a new IR cable. How do I buy one? How do I get a long one? How do I extend a short one?

Thanks!

</font>
It will work just keep the polarity correct.



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Old 03-23-2001, 09:17 AM
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If you don't want to use speaker wire, you can always buy this extension cable.

http://www.smarthome.com/8186.html

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Old 03-23-2001, 04:04 PM
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Evan,
David and Steve both give good advice.

You can extend this wire quite a distance before getting into trouble. Just make sure that when you're done, the white stripe wire on the plug end is still connected to the white stripe wire on the LED emitter end.

If you don't have a soldering iron, you can even use wire nuts (gray size) for a temporary fix. Don't just twist the wires together.

Good luck.

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Old 03-24-2001, 01:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes it works!
I just used the speker wire that was in the wall to extend the signal. Right now it is just twisted together but mabie tomarow I'll solder it together. The video looks good and the IR can move! It's a little laggy but I guess that should be expected.

My Dad and I say THANK YOU! We are very http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Now to work on the audio static problem. I'll troubleshoot it over the weekend.

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Old 03-25-2001, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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WOW I soldered it and it goes 10x faster! HUGE DIFFERENCE!

How bright should the red light be on the channel plus when someone uses the IR? Any way to amplify the IR signal more so we get 100% reliability? Rightnow the IR emmiter is held onto the TIVO w/ electrical tape. Is that ok? Any way to increase its effeciency?

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Old 03-26-2001, 01:37 PM
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The brightness of the LED is a function of the IR signals "duty cycle" i.e. the percentage of time the IR LED is on.

Factors affecting IR repeating robustness:
1) Distance from IR wand to the target (2133 in your case) ... A typical IR wand will saturate the target up to about 20 feet away. Further away and the signal starts to drop off.
2) Optical noise that the target can see ... The target will respond to changing IR levels within its bandwidth. The most notorious noise makers are flourescent lights with solid state ballasts. In a home, this usually would only be in a kitchen. (Where your mother's TV is located.) If there is an optical noise problem, the LED on the 3024 will be glowing all of the time. Covering the target with something would make this noise disappear. If you have an optical noise problem, you can put a shroud over the target so it does not "see" the fixture (as the bill of a ball cap will shade your eyes).
3) Static IR ... sunlight will saturate the photodiode in an IR target, so it cannot see the changing IR of a remote control wand. Be sure the target does not easily 'see' a window.
4) Electrical noise, both conducted and radiated ... If the LED on the 3024 glows all of the time, even if you cover the front of the target, a TV is putting electrical noise into the system. Connect the TVs one at a time to the 3024 and determine if one has noise on its coax. Do this even with TVs that have no IR target. If only the TV with the target is contributing noise, reposition the target until the LED is out. If TVs without IR targets are contributing noise, tell me and I'll give you some fixes for that circumstance.
5) Poor positioning of the LED emitter ... Taping the emitter to the TIVO is fine. Just be sure you are positioned over the sensor. If you are not sure, move the emitter from side to side and up and down while someone else sends IR commands to the TIVO. This should allow you to home in on the sensor.

Good luck.

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Old 03-26-2001, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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what do you mean by a "shroud?" Won't that block the IR signal from the 2133?

What do you mean by the IR target does not "see" a window? So it should not face a window? You can see where it is (on the TV) below.

The room is Saturated in sun during the day and I see that the response goes down during the day. How can I best fix this? It seems to work best in the back of the room (B&C) at any time of day.

Room Layout

+------- x ----- x -----+
| TV A B |
| | |
| | |
| C |
+ y -------------------+
x = Window
y = open space into kitchen
A,B,C = Viewing possitions

The reciever is on top of the TV. It seems that from possition A the IR works the worst but from B and C it works much better yet still it is rather unreliable.

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Old 03-27-2001, 11:01 AM
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Try this
http://www.channelplus.com/files/ir_target_shroud.pdf

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