Connecting Cat5 for Phone and Ethernet - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 07-16-2001, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I took the advice of many people when constructing my house back in 1997 and ran Cat5 to all of the phone jacks in my house. Of the 12 jacks in the house only 4 are currently connected and just for single line phones.

I am ready to wire all the others and want to have a phone jack and ethernet jack at each outlet. Is that possible with one Cat5 cable? If so, how would I wire the outlet?

It's just fine with me if you want to just point me to a reference site?

Thanks - Owen

PS - I also have dual coax in every jack and decided not to go with home distribution. What can I do with that extra coax?
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post #2 of 14 Old 07-16-2001, 02:33 PM
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Unfortunately if I understand your installation, you will not be able to make phone and ethernet on a single cat5 cable because ethernet network are requiring 4 twisted pairs of 24 gauges cables (read 1 entire cat5 cable). The phone on the other hand for a single line and for a basic installation is using only 2 wires (1 twisted pair) but is usually wired with 2 pairs of cable.

So what are your options? With the remaining wire in the cat5 you could dispatch IR signal if you want to distribute IR around the house.
Note that with special kits (cf Xantech and OEMs) you could carry IR signal through a RG6 (coax). An other thing you could do with the coax is carrying preamplified (I don't know about amplified) signal for music. I've seen several installations where the subwoofer was fed through an RG6. An other solution is to use the cable for carrying video signal back to a central place before processing like a surveillance camera or since you have 2 of them, you could carry a composite signal and one of the sound channel.

I've found pretty useful to look at xantech web site and leviton web sire. They have a lot of wiring configuration with (of course) their product highlighted. Especially, most of the interesting information have been located in their installation/specification manual.

Anyway, if you have any question that I might an answer, feel free to let me know.

Thanks,

Frederik Delacourt

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post #3 of 14 Old 07-16-2001, 06:09 PM
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10BaseT Ethernet (10 MHz) does not use all 8 wires. 100BaseTx does. So if you're just running low-speed stuff, you can split the wire and use it for phone and computer. On a standard 10BaseT ethernet connection, the Orange/OrangeWhite pair are transmit, and the Green/GreenWhite pair are Receive. The blue and brown pairs are not used.

I also wouldn't recommend sending amplified signals down coax. Are you sure the subwoofer you saw wasn't being fed the low-level signal that way to its own internal amplifier?
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post #4 of 14 Old 07-16-2001, 08:39 PM
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another option is to run your ethernet over coax. it might be kind of hard to find a hub and network cards because cat 5 is kind of the norm but they're out there. they use bnc connectors rather than "f" for a better connection. if I remember right it allows speeds of a 100baseT but I could be wrong on that one.
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post #5 of 14 Old 07-16-2001, 11:20 PM
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The old coax ethernet standard was RG-58 thinnet cable, 50 ohms. Not compatible with your 75 ohm cable

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post #6 of 14 Old 07-16-2001, 11:34 PM
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Are you sure 100baseT uses all eight wires. I thought the pinout on 10base-t and 100base-t are the same
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connecto...et10baset.html

Pin Color Signal
1 White/Green TX data +
2 Green/White TX data -
3 White/Orange RX data +
4 Blue/White unused
5 White/Blue unused
6 Orange/White RX data -
7 White/Brown unused
8 Brown/White unused

1000Base-T (gigabit) uses all eight wires
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[This message has been edited by work permit (edited 07-17-2001).]

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post #7 of 14 Old 07-17-2001, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone for the information.

I did suspect that 100BaseT used two pair leaving the others free for phone. I did not have the details on connecting the pins.

A follow-up question...
When using the free pair of phone, will the person hear any noise from the network traffic on the other pairs in the line?

Owen

PS - next house will have dual Cat5 runs to each jack.
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post #8 of 14 Old 07-17-2001, 09:02 PM
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I think you're correct. Before I posted that last message, I was pretty sure that it was 1GHz ethernet that used all 8 wires. But I did a net search to be sure, and the first diagram I came across showed the unused pairs with a label, "Only used for 100BaseT". So that's what I wrote, but honestly I think you're right. I have a TIA wiring diagram at my office, so I'll double-check it later.

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post #9 of 14 Old 07-18-2001, 06:08 AM
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The general answer is "no cross talk should occur on properly installed Cat 5 cable" with a "but" ....
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

It depends on if the person(s) who installed the cable paid any attention to the rated pull tension of the cable. If they pulled it hard enough to straighten some of the windings or change the frequency of the windings, cross talk can occur. Another possible problem is how the installer affixed the cable to any supports (did they use a hanger or a too tight fastener). Squeezing the cable is not really a good thing as it forces the individual wires to be in closer proximity than they normally would be.

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post #10 of 14 Old 07-18-2001, 12:08 PM
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Another major source of crosstalk is the termination. The Cat 5 spec has a requirement for maximum untwisted wire length at the termination, but probably half of the installations I've seen exceeded it.

I highly recommend terminating your Cat-5 with snap connectors like those from Panduit or Northern Telecom. To use those connectors, you simply cut the insulation on the wire back, spread the wires out to match the color code on the connector, push the wires into the connector, and snap on a plate which cuts the wires to length and makes the electrical connection. It guarantees Cat-5 specs without any special skills. Panduit installed something like 70,000 in Cisco's head offices without a single failure. You don't need any special tools for this - no crimpers, strippers, etc. You can do the whole thing with an exacto knife and a set of pliers.

Another source of crosstalk is tight wire bends. The Cat-5 standard also specifies the minimum radius for a bend. So when you're pulling the wire, make sure you don't make tight 90 degree bends all over the place.

I prefer running Cat-5 in conduit to get a nice even pull and guarantee the right radius for all bends, but if you don't want to do that here's a trick I figured out on my own: Go to Home Depot and buy a few curved plumbing pieces, either for gray electrical conduit or black plumbing. They are cheap, like a buck each or so. Then, Wherever you want to bend the cable, just attach one of the pieces with some metal strapping, and pull the wire through it. That will give you a nice low-friction bend so you can pull wire without having someone else to feed it around the corner, and it guarantees a radius that is greater than Cat-5 requires. Then just leave them in the wall when you close it up.

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post #11 of 14 Old 07-18-2001, 12:22 PM
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If you do use the conduit bends or similar, install or make some sort of functional grommet for the ends of the bend, as pulling against these could easily shave the jacketing from the cable. PVC piping is also a good method for home installation of cabling when conduit is not required. (hey, I live and work in Chicago http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif conduit is everywhere)

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post #12 of 14 Old 07-18-2001, 08:14 PM
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A good point, which I neglected to mention. You don't have to use a grommet, though - a minute or so with a file can blunt the edges enough to prevent scraping.
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post #13 of 14 Old 07-19-2001, 06:00 AM
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I like the Beldon "Media Twist" It is overkill for a house, and a little harder to work with, but the Twisted pair are always where they should be. The only hard part is that the pair are bonded.

SM
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post #14 of 14 Old 07-19-2001, 11:30 AM
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I use mediatwist for just the same reason. I needed "contractor proof" wires

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