Best non-proprietary touch panels? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Who makes the best non-proprietary (non-dealer-only) touch screens? I know of many vendors, but I'm interested in anyone who's had hands-on experience with the products they're recommending and what their satisfaction level is.

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post #2 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 03:35 PM
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You mean like a flat touch screen computer monitor or a tablet PC?

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post #3 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcjo
You mean like a flat touch screen computer monitor or a tablet PC?
Yes, without a stylus, most likely to be used as a wall mount home automation controller interface....for example if I wanted to avoid the cost of a Crestron panel but still wanted an active matrix 7"-12" screen.

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post #4 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 03:48 PM
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Viewsonics are nice. I think that is what Creston uses or at least modifies.

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post #6 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcjo
Viewsonics are nice. I think that is what Creston uses or at least modifies.
They look good for a wireless option, but with my family, there needs to be at least a couple interfaces attached to a wall or a desk or a very large heavy person that doesn't leave the couch very often. :D

Nevo looks interesting from a wireless perspective as well. The Viewsonics seem to be the only product in the list that there is actually a user base for...

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post #7 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 04:04 PM
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The problem is they all rely on MSwindows to function.
You have the boot up time/viruses/worms/OS patches associated with Windows.

I prefer on non-windows OS touch panel

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post #8 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 04:04 PM
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For a hard-mounted touch screen, the Planar 15" screens are a good deal. They are about $650 (probably you can find them for less if you look around) and they work just fine. You can use one of those for the main video output.

Once you move beyond that, the ones linked above are the most common options. The Airpanel isn't really good for a hard mounted, hard wired option. And it also is really only useful as an RDP client, which means it takes over your main machine's login session unless you use something like Thinsoft or Windows Server to get multiple RDP sessions.

The Tatung is really a nice little unit. We had one in for evaluation, and liked it. We are waiting for them to put out an SP2 eXP based model, and some other improvements that they seem to be making and I think we may standardize on it as the touch screen unit we sell through as part of our hardware solution.

The Kubes look very promising and I really hope someone gives them a try. They are very nice looking and seem to be a good match. They also have a nice wall mount that lets you mount them on the wall normally but pull them off when you want to, though you could hard mount it as well I'm sure.

Sahara has some pretty full XP and eXP tablets, but they are more expensive since they are full computers.

http://www.tabletkiosk.com/products/touch_screens/

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post #9 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 04:06 PM
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BTW, the Sahara folks told me that they do understand the need for a smaller, dumber, lighter, cheaper CE type touch screen and that they are working on such a beast. I did my best to make it clear what the needs are for the automation world, where I think that a lot of their sales could be made, so hopefully they'll come up with something nice. He said it was an 8" device.

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post #10 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
The problem is they all rely on MSwindows to function.
You have the boot up time/viruses/worms/OS patches associated with Windows.

I prefer on non-windows OS touch panel
As has geen pointed out, Crestron sells (for a lot of money) a touch screen based on eXP and the Viewsonic 210 tablets. Many of the devices above are CE.Net based or eXP based, so they don't have long boot times, can be solid state if you want, and are competely stable and safe because the OS is a fixed image.

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post #11 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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The Tatung is nice, but what's the $$$?

Anyone got a source for VESA rough-in brackets (if they exist)?

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post #12 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 04:54 PM
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The Tatung is at retail I think is just under $1K as I understand it. Not cheap but competitive with similar offerings from dedicated automation companies like Crestron. And it's not a closed system so you can install software on it if that is desirable.

As long as you can get a money back guarantee, I'd take a chance on some of those Zykroniz devices for small, wall mounted devices. They look very promising, but no one has given them a try yet AFAIK. I doubt that they suck or anything, but there could be some glitch or another that made them uacceptable for your particular need, so you'd want to be able to send them back if it didn't work out.

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post #13 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Those Zykronix Z6 and Z10 consoles don't look flush mountable. The room by room might work but they don't show the full line of products on line, which is scary.

Is that a camera? IR port? Zwave would be usefull for...??? Odd website...Nice manufacturing plant.

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post #14 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 10:01 PM
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The Z-Wave stuff would mostly only be useful if you use Z-Wave. Hopefully they'll have Z-Waveless stuff for those folks who don't need it, if it reduces the price by any noticable amount. The web site is a piece of crap, most definitely. I assume that they didn't have much time after setting up the plant to work on the web site :)

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post #15 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I notice you're the only one responding? Seems like the Crestron guys aren't interested. I wonder what makes them think I'm not interested in running XPanel to something other than a Crestron screen?

Don't be discouraged though Dean, it seems to me like I could gamble $300 on your software and if it doesn't work for me, I could step into a CP2E or AV2, etc., more easily than I could do the reverse....if Gamble is the right word for it.

Any dissenters? Probably not this late...

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post #16 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 11:02 PM
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Just FYI the tatung is what control4 uses. Nice piece. very happy with it.
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post #17 of 131 Old 10-14-2005, 11:05 PM
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Also check out aurora multimedia. Nice in-wall and wireless options. You will notice that there in wall is strikingly similar to the zykronix. :)
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post #18 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 11:06 AM
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So, I just received a bid from an installer for home automation. It is basically a Crestron/Kaliedascape/HAI system. For the control panels, he is recommending a Crestron in wall 17" control/computer/HDTV, and two Crestron ISYS 10" portables. The cost of these three units itself is approx. $22K. I find it hard to justify spending this amoiunt of $$$$ on three display panels. Can I get the same functionality from any of the non proprietory panels being discussed here? or does the Crestron offer something way beyond any of these to justify the price. With lesser price of the non propriety panels, I could have more touchscreen panels throughout the house, than the three Crestrons, and not have to carry the portables from room to room.
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post #19 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 05:06 PM
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One reason some of us do not respond is that we have limited time and cannot respond to everyone's requests. This is supposed to be a DIY formum so it's not unreasonable for your fellow DIYs to chime in. Secondly, I, for one, do not have unlimited devlopment time. I do a bit of beta testing for manufacturers and that takes up some free time. Then there are the realities of having to spend some time with family and friends. I for one do not have unlimited devlopment funds. Taking a chance on a possible solution is not part of my business plan. But you guys are supposed to want to go after the least expensive, cutting edge solutions. Which means my playing here is supposed to save me the development time you are hoping I will spend to make your engineering time less. Now were you a client, there might be some financial incentive to work out such a solution. It's not that we only want expensive solutions we do not always have the time and money to put into development that you seem to think we do.

Mr. Roddey has little choice but to spend some development dollars and time on these products. He is in many ways better placed to evalutate them then we are. He does not need to deal with entitled decorators and clients who expect us to pull rabbits out of our hats. He has both the time, expertise and financial incentive to spend his time evaluating these solutions. Now were you to do some work for me and figure out which of these panels worked best I might certainly deploy them. Shouldn't information on inexpensive alternatives come from DIYs looking for deals? The expectation that a Crestron dealer playing here has some incentive to help you is funny. It's not as if you are a client and we are working together on a solution. You are seeking free advice. You get what you pay for.

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post #20 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 05:33 PM
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gijay

Yes and no. Please see you dealer who will perform your install for details.

Dave


Alan 100%. That is the #1 reason I don't post as much as I use to. We are over X mill a year and my part in the company is very demanding. I'll be more than willing for put a solution together for $ but my days of free design has long past , as all that I ever received in response is criticism from DIYers in this forum.
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post #21 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 06:11 PM
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Not to mention that most CI companies worth their salt are about as busy as we can possibly be...

Why would we want to seek out a LOWER cost solution when we have clients ringing our phones off the hook to have us install what we are currently using??

The continually dropping cost of plasmas and projectors already has me scrambiling to make up that revenue each year. Unlike the retail comunity, the quantity of units sold can't go up enough to take advantage of the lower pricing and equal out the loss of revenue per unit... we can still only get into so many homes in a year.

I can add a few more PDPs into those projects and/or move a few of them up a size or two, but it is not enough to compensate. The dropping prices cost me money.

Adding bigger touchscreens and more elaborate control is the natural choice to keep the ledgers penned in black ink.

Besides, nobody is asking us to integrate fewer sytems into their screens, they all want MORE!!

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post #22 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 07:32 PM
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Dave and Alan,
Why bother posting on this thread if you feel it is a do it youself thread.
Sounds like you two are primadonnas, who enjoy flaming in a fashionable techie kind of way.
Just cut the crap please and either help with a sensible post that answers the man's question or don't bother posting at all.
I have to go now and get back to my company that makes trillions of dollars in business, but I promise i will still have time to post.

Dane
I can't believe the moderator let's you two flame like this and get away with it?
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post #23 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 07:41 PM
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Danester

As a new to the forum poster I'll just chuck you comments up as new guy who doesn't really understand the idea behind the forum.

I started posting in this forum Um! 6 years ago when people were more professional and respected each other. Oh! Yea! A jab every now and then to have some fun.

Dave
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post #24 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 07:48 PM
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If you were real sincere you wouldn't have trumped my x millions with trillions. Get my drift. With trillions you can sure afford to pay us blue collar workers for our time.
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post #25 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 08:00 PM
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Dave
Iam a blue collar worker and yes I am new to the forum , but those two posts just seemed like deliberate shots at someone just looking for an answer to a simple question from experts like yourselves.
We all specialize in something, but we don't need to use the forum to flaunt it.
We as newbies to A/V systems and control depend on you for straight answers to our questions.
If I could help the person who posted ,I would. What i wouldn't do is not even try.

Dane
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post #26 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 08:04 PM
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AH !!! and respectful. Do you really believe your reply to the post was reaspectful??
I apologize for the trillions comment, but heck I just felt it, the millions comment, was not overly impressive.
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post #27 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 08:17 PM
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Professionalism is a 2-way street. You pros are more than willing to back one another in these threads yet if one of your own makes ludicrous statements or speaks up about stuff they know nothing about, none of you guys steps up to comment.

I just dont get it. When it comes to control system software, you guys are full of opinions and delivering those opinions without practical experiene. Someone asks why dont you comment on non-proprietary touchpanels and you suggest that you dont have time to research and therefore cannot comment. Seems quite inconsistent.

I probably should not have said anything...cause here comes Alan
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post #28 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Can I get the same functionality from any of the non proprietory panels being discussed here?
Yes, you can. The wireless Crestron panel is a Viewsonic panel.
Refer to the following URL for additional information:
http://www.viewsonic.com/products/mo...nitors/v210b1/

As far as the 17inch in wall, it's specs are listed on Crestron's website at:
http://www.crestron.com/downloads/pd...mc-17-qm-l.pdf

This device runs on WinXP (which I find quite funny, considering all the crap that's been said about any device that is powered by a Windows OS).

It's easy enough to compare the specs on this device vs any of the others listed within this thread or others on this forum. At the end of the day, if you cannot find a non-proprietary device with similar specs, you just have to ask yourself whether the extra $$$ is worth it for the Crestron panel.

As I mentioned in another thread, some of those non-properietary devices are in industrial environments and undergo a rather serious amount of abuse. Some of the more rugged devices in this category are built quite well and can be exposed to water or being dropped from countertop heights. Quite useful if you have young children or plan on using a portable in the kitchen/bathroom.

It has been suggested that you will experience better customer support should your Crestron touchpanel fail (product repair, replacement, etc). I dont subscribe to this but you ought to consider it and make your own decision as to how valid this might be.
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post #29 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 08:37 PM
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raydxr

Be my guest in buying a Non-prop TP. Nothing wrong with it. Being in business I need to deliver a product that works and works well. I've found it the hard way. Still mess around with some other pronto style product for lower cost options but we are putting our rep on the line. Playing it safe? Maybe! We are open enough to send our two top programmers to Control 4 training for 3 days. 2 days travel, thats 5 days out of nongenerating cash. I loved the idea but will wait on the product to mature. Would be fine for my own house.

I love the idea of CQC and I would love for Dean to make trillions of dollars. The path to that is key. Business plan and marketing isn't in Deans skill set. Sorry Dean. But Dean can code in circles around me. Knowing your strengths and weakness is key. I've built on my strengths and call the pros when needed (most of the time anyway!).

Some of us pros hang out here at AVS and bring so much to the table. There are way over 100K members who will pick apart and suggest other methods. Are those members willing to put their rep on the line and stand behind what they say?! I sure do! I've only been in the HT business for over 10 years, commercial theater before that and a repair tech on radar equipment in the Marines. Now I know what I bring to the table.


Puh! End of rant!

Dave
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post #30 of 131 Old 10-15-2005, 08:40 PM
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raydxr

Funny how you list web site for Crestron 17" new panel. I have one right next to me and I've already put the TPMC-15CH version in.

So while people post web links and talk about I'm in the real world installing these.

Want pics? I'm for real! I guess that Marine mentality is showing! LOL!
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