New Home Construction Smart Home Help - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 77 Old 01-23-2006, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ph0n33z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here is the layout of the house in terms of what I want in each room:

Hope this helps

First Floor:
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?i...stfloor2dn.jpg

Second Floor:
http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?im...ndfloor1nd.jpg

I forgot to mention that the study will also have OTA HD and Satellite HD.

Also, I can not find a good spot for the theater equipment closet and the HA area.

Any help would be great. Thanks!

The Retrospect Cinema - My Completely DIY Home Theater Thread
Ph0n33z is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 77 Old 01-23-2006, 01:32 PM
Member
 
vince2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I hate to break it to you, but I wouldn't touch that job for your under $15K budget according to your drawings. Six touch screens alone and you're half way there. Doesn't leave a lot left over for source equipment, wiring, or your 12 pairs of speakers! Why not use other types of controllers and maybe just one touchscreen on the main level? As I mentioned previously, how often do you see yourself going over to a touchscreen to change settings vs. just grabbing a remote control panel (or PDA, or laptop)? If you're going for the biggest bang for the buck, six touchpanels throughout the house is not the best route IMHO. If, on the other hand, your budget is just for the control system, I would go with Crestron's Adagio and Infinet gateway for the automation/security.

http://www.crestron.com/downloads/ap...ams/adagio.pdf
vince2 is offline  
post #63 of 77 Old 01-23-2006, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ph0n33z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My original intention for that drawing was to wire for touchscreens, but only buy 1 or 2 for the security/hvac/lighting control in a main area like the hallway and family room.

For the other rooms, I am probably going to go with PDA's or some type of remote device. I agree with the "going over to the touchscreen" to have to do everything. It would be much nicer to be able to have a pda docked on a table/desk in each area to access everything.

What do you guys think?

BTW, we are probably not going to buy all the speakers up front, but wire for them down the road.

The Retrospect Cinema - My Completely DIY Home Theater Thread
Ph0n33z is offline  
post #64 of 77 Old 01-23-2006, 03:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
K-Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
From my own investigations into this, wired touchscreens are about $400/piece for good quality RS232 or USB ones. Add to this the likely need to extend the VGA and RS232 signals from touchscreen to the host PC -- again, about $400 for remote Cat5 extenders (or you can run VGA and hardwire RS232). You can drive multiple touchscreens from a single PC with multimonitor cards, but there are compromises in such an implementation. In the end, I went with Viewsonic Airpanels for my remote touchscreens with one hardwired touchscreen in the theater on the other side of the wall from my server.

The Tatung 2000 webtablet is a viable alternative because its wireless and portable and can be moved from room to room. You can just set up multiple docking stations so that it can be recharged conveniently.

Still another option is the RedRadio I/O -- small, one-gang touchscreens controlled by a small, dedicated PC running CQC.

If I were doing it again and had my walls open, I'd wire for hardwired touchscreens in one central location per floor (plus the theater), install RedRadio touchscreens in additional locations, and budget for one Tatung wireless unit for comprehensive coverage.

- Ken
K-Wood is offline  
post #65 of 77 Old 01-23-2006, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ph0n33z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks ken!

I have been looking at the Rad-i/o system, and have even been contacted to see them in person! I will probably take him up on this offer.

My only concern, was that with the low quality of the resolution, I would not be able to browse the music cover art in order to make my selections. This is important to me, but I know the rad-i/o is a nice option.

BTW,
How much do the Tatung wireless ones go for? And the Viewsonic Airpanels??

Also, I am meeting with a pre-wire rep in about 1 hour, so I will have details for you soon!

The Retrospect Cinema - My Completely DIY Home Theater Thread
Ph0n33z is offline  
post #66 of 77 Old 01-23-2006, 04:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
K-Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Tatungs were about $1400 a few months ago, but that price may have changed. Check eBay for V150 and V110 Airpanels, no longer in production. The V210 is still produced and considerably more expensive than the older ones you can find on eBay.
K-Wood is offline  
post #67 of 77 Old 01-23-2006, 09:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
AI Limited's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The biggest reason the blue chip control companies, and I suppose even the smaller ones, are pushing wireless technology is because there is a much bigger retrofit market than new construction. Think about it, how many homes are being built compared to the number of homes that already exist?!?

If you were in their shoes, would you market a product that is affordable in 10% of all households, or 99%?

On another note, while 802.11n looks promising, I'd still rather push my HDTV over IP across a wired gigE network, and I'm an RF Engineer. Shannon's law will always exist for wireless networks (bandwidth is relative to signal/noise ratio and spectrum available) meaning wired networks, though also limited (usually by distance), tend to be more reliable.

My sister's internet connection drops when her old wireless phone rings because they were both at 2.4GHz. She replaced her phone, but it's a good example. In new construction it's best to plan for both wired and wireless systems to co-exist. Just my $.02! :D

AI Limited
AI Limited is offline  
post #68 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 07:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
bigpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kailua Kona, HI
Posts: 915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I can see all kinds of spots for your equipment. I'd say that you need a minimum of 24" deep, and there seems to be no shortage of dead spaces available to you.
The Theater wall is all dead space... any 24" depth there?

Have you considered racks? You can get Middle Atlantic BRK series racks for cheap; melamine boxes with rack rail. Buy some shelfs, some casters from Home Depot, and you got a professional rack.

Also, have you considered buying cheap speakers for now and upgrading later? I'd say that because it's more difficult to find wires and cut out speakers later, after you consider sheetrock dust, layout with other things on the ceiling, and so on. Even for a pro, even if you take pictures and measure your wire stubs, it just never seems to go easy. If you want to look at this route, find your ideal speakers, get their footprint, and buy the cheapest one you can find to match it. You might have to fuss with sheetrock a little, but not cut out anew.

Have you considered building back boxes for your speakers? I'd at least try to do it for your theaters... but if you do that, you'd probably find out that it's not that hard and do it for the rest of them. This can be done with materials found on the job site, in most cases. Let me know if you're interested. It might be a good chore for your dad is he's got a little carpenter bug in him.

Back boxes will greatly improve the sound, as well as provide some more DIY'er gratification.

I'd have to agree with Vince, you have a substantial system to install. But, it can be done without being a money pit.
bigpapa is offline  
post #69 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ph0n33z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I met with the pre-wire guy last night. In summary, lets just say the guy was arrogant and tried too hard to sell us. He insulted my theater room(said it was way too small, because the theaters HE BUILDS are 30x40 minimum.......yea...I know LOL). He also spoke down to me the whole time, probably thinking I didnt know anything about wiring/tech. He was going on about how RG6 cables were WAY into the future, and that by using them we are future proof. (That is when I realized he was talking out of his......well u know).I was polite and did not tell him what I knew, but I am certainly not going to be going with him.

Not to mention it was going to be $12,000 just in LABOR for only 4 rooms, security, and 4 room music!!! Yea.........

However, there may be light at the end of the tunnel. My brother use to own an outdoor living company, and is friends with an electrician. I spoke with the electrician, Mike, last night. He said he would be more than willing to take a look at the blueprints and let me know if he thinks he can do it. He said he wanted to do it right, and not just take it on because my brother is his close friend. So he is picking them up tonight, and should get back to me tomorrow or wednesday.

What I like about him, is the fact that he could be my muscle(he and his buddy), while I can be the "supervisor" in instructing him on what to do. This way, I can learn what needs to go where, and also be able to see it done.

What do you guys think? Do you think I can figure out all the wiring specs myself and then show him where to do it?

I was also talking with some guys over on the CT forums, and they recommended that we do the termination ourselves. What do you guys think?

BIGPAPA: I am going to be working on the theater design all day today. Hopefully I can post that up so it can help solve the pre-wire issues.
When you spoke about the "dead space", what area were you referring to? Which wall?

The Retrospect Cinema - My Completely DIY Home Theater Thread
Ph0n33z is offline  
post #70 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 09:50 AM
IVB
AVS Special Member
 
IVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 5,325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
what's a "back box"?

------------------------------------
I'm on Google Plus a lot more than online forums now, contact me there if you want something.

IVB is offline  
post #71 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ph0n33z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had the same question bud hehehe

The Retrospect Cinema - My Completely DIY Home Theater Thread
Ph0n33z is offline  
post #72 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 10:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
bigpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kailua Kona, HI
Posts: 915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVB
what's a "back box"?
A "Box" behind the speaker and sheetrock, in "Back" of it. An In-Wall enclosure.
bigpapa is offline  
post #73 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 10:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
bigpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kailua Kona, HI
Posts: 915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph0n33z
BIGPAPA: I am going to be working on the theater design all day today. Hopefully I can post that up so it can help solve the pre-wire issues.
When you spoke about the "dead space", what area were you referring to? Which wall?
The wall with the unused space in it... entering from the hallway, to your right. I realize it might be shelves, but you're better off with a hole in the wall with a rack for your equipment. It makes service and install way easier. Don't be a Shelf Stacker for your main HE! :eek:
bigpapa is offline  
post #74 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ph0n33z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hehehe

I was thinking of placing the equipment in that wall on the far right(as if u had just walked into the theater from the hallway). However, I do not think there is 24" inches there. I think it is just under 2 feet. Would a smaller built-in rack work? Like the 19"? Also, would I not have to get the kind that slide out in order to service them?

I will be posting the theater design in a bit........although this is not exactly the right forum. So maybe ill post it in my old theater thread.

Thanks bud!

The Retrospect Cinema - My Completely DIY Home Theater Thread
Ph0n33z is offline  
post #75 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 01:09 PM
Member
 
vince2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Limited
...Shannon's law will always exist for wireless networks (bandwidth is relative to signal/noise ratio and spectrum available) meaning wired networks, though also limited (usually by distance), tend to be more reliable....


Come on now, as an engineer, surely you realize the short distances we are talking about. Furthermore, home automation controls (e.g. lighting, thermostat, security, etc..) hardly require high bandwidth. Even current technologies are robust enough. I agree though, as I previously stated, that wired solutions are preferred for the video and audio systems. Regarding the industry pushing wireless...I learned long ago not to fight them.
vince2 is offline  
post #76 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 02:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
AI Limited's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince2
Come on now, as an engineer, surely you realize the short distances we are talking about. Furthermore, home automation controls (e.g. lighting, thermostat, security, etc..) hardly require high bandwidth. Even current technologies are robust enough. I agree though, as I previously stated, that wired solutions are preferred for the video and audio systems. Regarding the industry pushing wireless...I learned long ago not to fight them.

Good point about the low bandwidth requirement, and yes, distance is rarely a problem in residential unless you have a monsterous house (in which case $ is usually abundant to overcome those issues). I just wouldn't put a mission critical system in (security and lighting) that relied on wireless. Some of the newer mesh networked systems are supposedly pretty reliable but for new construction I would think wired is cheaper (and still more reliable). I've never compared the two side by side or anything, but I'd venture to guess that a wired network has a quicker response time too. Didn't mean to hijack the thread though, sounds like Phon33z is getting some good feedback.

AI Limited
AI Limited is offline  
post #77 of 77 Old 01-24-2006, 02:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
bigpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kailua Kona, HI
Posts: 915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph0n33z
hehehe

I was thinking of placing the equipment in that wall on the far right(as if u had just walked into the theater from the hallway). However, I do not think there is 24" inches there. I think it is just under 2 feet. Would a smaller built-in rack work? Like the 19"? Also, would I not have to get the kind that slide out in order to service them?

Thanks bud!
22" might be alright, check depth of a Middle Atlantic BRK series rack. Add a little room for wire management and air circulation, as well as room out the front for knobs, should you have a door. I did notice that there was a deeper area in the space in question, out towards the middle. Not only do you have more depth there, there's more room for running conduit, if that's still a consideration.

As for slide out racks, there are many styles and apps available, buy you're being budget concious. I've used BRK racks many times in closets, and just went to Home Depot and bought casters for the bottom. Middle Atlantic has them, but they mark em up more. If you want to go with a nicer or more heavier duty solution, I have extensive experience with Middle Atlantic Products. There are many other rack manufacturers though, might be a good thread to start.

If you're on carpet, get larger casters (for a BRK rack), or have a piece of thin HDF to roll the rack out on. There's your access, not too much $$. I just saved you some for speakers! :D

There are many tricks to manage the cables and keep it clean, I'll go into detail a little later. There are a coupla caveats you need to know for pre-wire, then we'll get into more detail later.

Also, we need to talk cooling! Where are your amps going? Also, satellite recievers and cable boxes generate as much if not more heat than many amplifiers. When they get hot, they seize up a lot and need to be reset. :mad:

I've got cool solutions for cooling brah :cool:
bigpapa is offline  
Closed Thread Home A/V Distribution

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off