Full home solutions cost too much!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I cant believe we accept these prices, I just got two quotes back for home wiring and home automation and they have to be kidding, who actually agrees to buy this stuff?

The market has to come down. There is a huge hole here for someone to walk in and take the low end. Crestron is way overpriced!! Russound full system is way over priced when you consider the limited HD it has.

Component prices tend to be overpriced too.....unless you hunt for them on ebay.
I just received a quote from an auopatch distributor for ONE I/O wide band video card and its was $1000!!! Give me a break!


Im happy I have been going down the DIY route, I really think I will save 20+K and have a great quality solution.

Its a niche market today but there is a huge opportunity for low priced,high quality solutions. If I didnt already have a good business running now I would try to fill this need.

Thanks for listening to my rant. :D

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post #2 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 08:11 AM
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Get over it. If you want performance, you're going to have to pay for it. If you don't, then you can do it on the cheap and live with what you have. Obviously not everyone thinks its overpriced as people /ARE/ buying the equipment to get whatever they want done. If the market was there to sustain low cost high performance product - you would see it. But since this IS a niche market space - the companies that are in it do need to recoup their R&D expense and keep things priced appropriately to stay in business and compete.

Dont forget that you need input and output boards for the autopatch. The input boards are about 1/4 to 1/3 the price of the output boards. It's a well made unit, and only a few manufacturers can compete up in the space. Also, be careful with what actual cards you have in the unit. If you have the older units that use 120mhz boards, you shouldn't mix the 200mhz boards in. If you have 200mhz boards, you shouldnt mix older 120's in.

Just curious, how many units do you think Autopatch/XN sell a year ? For the support, lifetime warranty, R&D into current and future products, payroll on staff - what do you think they need to charge to stay in business ?
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post #3 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I dont need to get over it, they just wont get my money :)

Yes people buy it because they just want it done without doing it themselves, they have no alternative if they want audio/video distribution.

Volume is low because prices are too high for the average person. These systems cost more then cars for most people and that is the problem.

prices will come down, there will be a low cost, high quality player in about two years.The writing is on the wall for the premium Crestron type companies. This market is just opening up and there is a huge hole in it! Its too obvious.

btw, I will get the same performance for a fraction of the cost.

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post #4 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 09:20 AM
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So, go ahead and wait two years. At two years, it might do what you want, it might not. It might still be priced out of your bracket. It's not like there aren't options now, there is Crestron, AMX, Control 4, Russound, etc ,etc down to HAI and other solutions. You can gerryrig a PC solution together right now if you wanted. I mean, you aren't complaining about Crestron, you're already complaining about the lower end solutions. Trust me, there will always be new developments constantly along the way. Half the equation is the design/sweat/implementation. The other half is in the actual gear. One half of that will probably never go away - the other half is subject to constant innovation and improvement.

Everyone has their budget and the goal is to try to fit what you want/can accomplish within that budget. Even the Crestron guys - some are full blown systems, others are single room single control jobs. Pick your poison - just not worth waiting around years for things to possibly shape up or not and lose out on personal enjoyment. . .
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post #5 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 09:21 AM
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Don't get me wrong, i'm not about to disrespect the whole upper-end market, but there is something else afoot here.

There was an interesting article in the WSJ/NYTimes a few weeks back about the few remaining opportunities for the conspicuous consumption/display of wealth. The advent of timeshares not only in houses, but in cars & planes means the dude in the convertible ferrari next to you in the Hamptons may really just be a schmuck making $150K/year. Mass manufacturing & the recent stock market run up means everyday folks can spend $4 on a cup of coffee [I say as I sip my triple-grande-nonfat-latte], $800 on a Louis Vuitton purse [or 5, as my wife did before she met me].

This is one of the few remaining places where folks can say "yeah, i just had my guy come in and do <xxx>".

$30K on an entry level system, $150K on an upper-end system has nothing to do with earned value, perception is king. It gives you bragging rights on the golf course. I have a buddy who spent $150K on his H/T setup. Of course, he was the #5 guy at Vitria, so that alone made him $100M.

He seriously hates coming over to my house, b/c for $5K i've done nearly everything he can do, and my functionality and quality FAR exceeds his.

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post #6 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 09:50 AM
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Well, I tend to agree, but prices ARE coming down and the technology is getting better. Just needs a little more time before most "average" homes will have some sort of automation. High quality will always come at a high cost though. You have to pay up for the latest greatest. Both the Ferrari and the Volkswagon will get you somewhere but in very different ways. And both are better for most consumers than a home-built jalopy. Keep in mind that home values have soared as well. Is 10% of the cost of the home too much for technology that is used daily? I don't think so.
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post #7 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Both the Ferrari and the Volkswagon will get you somewhere but in very different ways.

The difference is that my wife can tell the difference between those two cars and therefore will appreciate the price of the Ferrari. She will never appreciate the 100k system because it will not give her much more then the 20K system or a 10K DIY system.

Heck we own an Acura MDX over the KIA Surrento (sp??) because she could tell the difference but when we went to a crestron demo, a control4 demo and then came back to our PCHT, she wonder how it can give us 20 to 50K in value. She said, the movies and sounds are the same (if not better) and if we are too lazy to turn off a light then we have a problem ;)

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post #8 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 10:31 AM
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Well, you know what ? If you can't tell the difference - then no point in trying to spend more for the same amount of actual/perceived performance. Stick with what you have :-).

If you use that as the basis for judgement, then perhaps you have overspend on your audio/video components if you have anything more than a $35 apex DVD player (maybe its cheaper than that now), the basic 5.1 home theater, and who knows - maybe the absolute cheapest PC from peoplePC (they used to give it away for free). . . I'm sure she's more than likely to not be able to tell a discerible difference there than even the light switches that you mention before.. .

I'm sure from a performance perspective, very few people can tell a difference between the $35 Apex player to the top of the line Denon or Linn/Arcam/Ayre for DVD or CD listening. .
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post #9 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Is 10% of the cost of the home too much for technology that is used daily? I don't think so.

lol, yeah and the cabinet people say 10% of a home's costs is in Cabinets also :D

Pool/Spa, people say 10% of the home cost is in Pool and accessories for it. :D


Before I know it, 10 items take up 100% of my current budget for the new house Yikes!!

In the end all these percentages are only what we except to be the norm.

Im not waiting 2 years either, I will have a solution that is just as good as a 50K solution and I will be under 20K, maybe even 10K. Heck NOT one big name solution out there handles DVDs ripped on storage network anyways unless I buy a 25K Kaleidoscope solution (sp??) which is completely proprietary.

Im just venting after getting quotes back. Also the differences between the quotes from different companies is too funny.

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post #10 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Anthem, I hear and respect what you are saying. Its sounds like you are in the industry so I would expect you would defend the products and pricing. I do in my industry (software development) all the time.

Maybe I shouldnt care and just put the 50K system in since it is 10% of my house cost but I just have hard time believing its better then the 10-15K DIY solution or the 25K solution. Thats not even considering that it should be 2-3 times as good since its 2 to 3 times the cost.

How do I even figure out if its 2-3 times better?

Besides that, I have a list of functions needed and only the DIY solution meets them all. I know my needs are not generic and that most likely is the biggest problem but even if I settle just for having generic needs the price tag was hard to handle (hence my rant :D)


Damn, I have to stop me rant :D

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post #11 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
Is 10% of the cost of the home too much for technology that is used daily? I don't think so.

lol, yeah and the cabinet people say 10% of a home's costs is in Cabinets also :D

Pool/Spa, people say 10% of the home cost is in Pool and accessories for it. :D


Before I know it, 10 items take up 100% of my current budget for the new house Yikes!!

In the end all these percentages are only what we except to be the norm.

Im not waiting 2 years either, I will have a solution that is just as good as a 50K solution and I will be under 20K, maybe even 10K. Heck NOT one big name solution out there handles DVDs ripped on storage network anyways unless I buy a 25K Kaleidoscope solution (sp??) which is completely proprietary.

Im just venting after getting quotes back. Also the differences between the quotes from different companies is too funny.
Depends on where your priorities are. If its the wife's kitchen, well, yes, you will probably allocate 10% (possibly more) for doing a kitchen. I'll also add that I wholeheartedly agree that spending 10% on a home theater does NOT have the same RIR as say spending it on Kitchens or possibly other areas of the house. You will probably realize more value in enlarging your house by 10% then building a theater in most cases. . The RIR for theater use is better measured in use that you will get out of it, as any measurement for resale value would be pretty ugly.

But in regards to a 50K system. If the K-scape system is part of that 50K equation, there is no way you will achieve something 'just as good' in 10K or 20K. And I'm pretty sure that if you left your wife be the judge of that with costs not being a factor or exposed to her in a useability test - that it will be a no-brainer that she will choose the 50K system with k-scape over ANYTHING you can conjure up for 10 or 20K.

There are some other media storage solutions out there, but they cost about half to 2/3 as much as a K-scape, maybe a bit more. (Axionix, Mirv, AMX Max). Remember that there is a minimum base cost just in the disk storage alone - you can't go below that.

I'm not saying that everyone should go for the k-scape system or advocating it, but I will say that no one else has come close to it just yet in terms of ease of use/performance. Some are partially there and companies are trying real hard, but no one is that close. It is costly and one does have to justify if its anywhere near worth it - but saying that you can make something just as good for less is just plain foolish. Then again, saying you can make something just as good for more is not even possible right now.

And no, I am NOT in the industry. I'm not protecting anybody's interest (including probably my own :). These are my own thoughts w/o any bias or prejudice.
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post #12 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I wasnt sure about your status in the industry, just assumed so since your stance is very much protecting it. I didnt mean to offend you if I did and I'm happy you do respond, it gives a counter arguement to mine. It gives me a point of view different with many valid points.

There are some other media storage solutions out there, but they cost about half to 2/3 as much as a K-scape, maybe a bit more. (Axionix, Mirv, AMX Max). Remember that there is a minimum base cost just in the disk storage alone - you can't go below that.


You can store 1 Terabye worth of movies and mp3s for under 2K
you can serve them up easily with a 1K PC with the best sound and video cards. You can distribute that source two 4 different zones for under $1500.
7.1 amps per room, speakers (1K each for good quality, 500 for cheaper ones) x4 some software to control the devices
add another PC or 2 and you have a video distribution system

Thats around a 10K solution. Thats a quality start for video distribution and the components could be easily cheaper.


add n-zone audio control (2-5k)
add wireless control of the system and other controls (2-5K)

and you have a sub 20K solution that would be equal to the quality of a crestron/K-scape solution.

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post #13 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the multi-posts.......

Now yes, the DIY stuff isnt for everyone but someone for sure can see this as a package solution and start a business doing it. They can under cut the best by 2 or 3 times the price tag. Buy all the components (get discounts on bulk), custom set up the full system and install for anyone.

Its a DIY solution that can be repeated 100 times over for a fraction of the cost.

Of course, you wont convince some people that a 15K solution is as good as 50K or 100K solution because human nature gets in the way.

example, I bid against, IBM and other consultants who quote $250 or more per hour, I dont quote that much at all. Amazingly some clients think IBM is better because they price they charge, the statement they have to be good because they charge so much is often said. Way too funny because in the end IBM sends a Junior guy out to your office and he knows squat even though they still bill you $250/hr ;)

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post #14 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
[i]... Heck NOT one big name solution out there handles DVDs ripped on storage network anyways unless I buy a 25K Kaleidoscope solution (sp??) which is completely proprietary.....
Well, that's because this one is purely a legal issue. Big name companies don't offer ripped DVD storage mainly because they fear being sued - not because they couldn't deliver an easy-to-use product at reasonable price (which they could). Heck, even Kaleidascape had a contract with the DVD licensing cartel to specifically allow their product (part of the reason their product is so expensive). And guess what? They're being sued by the licensing cartel anyway!

They're not likely to sue individuals or small mom & pop system builders - which is why ripped DVD servers are still mostly a DIY project.
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post #15 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I always forget about that great point.

They should offer a solution that allows an individual to create their own DVD backups though but Im sure they would get sued over that too :(


I do own 100% of my DVDs ripped, I just hate going to the cabinet and looking for them and I cant use a disk changer because I want to be able to play Movie A in Room 1 and Movie B in Room 2 at the same time.

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post #16 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 11:30 AM
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Hey this is Mike from TVA. We just got into the world of home control solutions, check out Control4 at control4.com; they offer entry level control systems that are moderately priced. If you have any questions about it TVA Tee, or Ryan spent week in Salt Lake City training with the good folks over at Control 4. You can give Ryan a call at 888.286.5353 x507.
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post #17 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
You can store 1 Terabye worth of movies and mp3s for under 2K
you can serve them up easily with a 1K PC with the best sound and video cards. You can distribute that source two 4 different zones for under $1500.
7.1 amps per room, speakers (1K each for good quality, 500 for cheaper ones) x4 some software to control the devices
add another PC or 2 and you have a video distribution system

Thats around a 10K solution. Thats a quality start for video distribution and the components could be easily cheaper.


add n-zone audio control (2-5k)
add wireless control of the system and other controls (2-5K)

and you have a sub 20K solution that would be equal to the quality of a crestron/K-scape solution.

Actually you can do way better than that. you can store 2TB for 2K in a standalone Gigabit Ethernet solution (Lacie Ethernet disk). No OS to worry about. But that isn't the point. Even your system at 10K, 20K or 100K. Put them in a side by side useability test against the K-scape/Crestron system and you are nowhere near 'just as good'. Your wife (and everybody else) will hands down pick the Crestron/K-scape system. Go see it and use it - it is THAT good. The interface is like Tivo to the rudimentary DVR's out there. They got it right and everybody else is just trying to catch up. I'm not arguing that you can do it - what I am saying is that for 10K or 20K, you can't do it as you claimed 'just as good'. And for that matter, if you spent MORE than what a k-scape costs you - you still can't because there isn't anything better right now.

Now, in regards to the legal status. Yes that is there and also one reason why the small guys aforementioned will stay small. They are living on the periphery and will perpetually remain there until they go mainstream (which I imagine they will never pony up to do). Now, in terms of that lawsuit, I'm pretty sure it will never go anywhere is my guess. From quite a few people I've heard that the DVDCCA knows they don't have too much of a case, but they want it perpetually hanging there. It's a great tool to dissuade anyone to put out anything that might incur their wrath and not go as far as K-scape did in protecting content (storing it in a format different than SMB and encrypted). So basically everybody else will treat lightly knowing this is out there - with seemingly no resolution on the horizon and neither side pressing things.

You know the phrase - no one has ever been fired for hiring IBM. . . Not always true, but perception goes a long way.
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post #18 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikieTVA
Hey this is Mike from TVA. We just got into the world of home control solutions, check out Control4 at control4.com; they offer entry level control systems that are moderately priced. If you have any questions about it TVA Tee, or Ryan spent week in Salt Lake City training with the good folks over at Control 4. You can give Ryan a call at 888.286.5353 x507.
If Russound is 'way overpriced', what makes someone think Control4 is going to be considered 'moderately priced'. . . .
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post #19 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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you can store 2TB for 2K in a standalone Gigabit Ethernet solution (Lacie Ethernet disk).

I like their products but they are not fault tolerant. Need a RAID solution still.


Put them in a side by side useability test against the K-scape/Crestron system and you are nowhere near 'just as good'.

I think this is all perception opinion the price tag gives people a bias to start with. It would be cool to have a "blind" test side by side. It would be interesting to see the results.

btw, I was not overly impressed with Crestron, no more then with Control4 actually. Dont get me wrong they are good systems but again they didnt give me anything that I couldnt do as well for 1/5 the cost (of Crestron). Control4 is a lower price and I like it but again no solution for accessing my DVDs.

I think the hype proceeded Crestron demo so much that I was let down by it. I expected it to be twice as good as others for twice the price, it is not twice as good so it should not be twice the price.


You know the phrase - no one has ever been fired for hiring IBM. . . Not always true, but perception goes a long way.


lol, so true, so true...but I know companies that have fired IBM ;)

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post #20 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 12:04 PM
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The issue for DIY isn't the hardware, it's the software and integration costs. The *hardware* list you provide does come out much less than the bids you got, but now add in the software and integration costs at your hourly rate. What's the real cost of the system?

I'm in the same boat. I write software for a living, so does my wife. I *can* develop a wicked home automation system with off the shelf parts like you listed. In fact, that is pretty much exactly what I'm doing. Though it's taking a long time to get the system up and running and in the mean time, I'm limping along with something that doesn't quite work - but it will eventually.

Think about what you're paying for in those bids. Hopefully expertise in knowing which components work well together, how to program the system for flexibility without the common pitfalls that have been identified over time, and time for all the software that's needed to pull it together.

...alan
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post #21 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
you can store 2TB for 2K in a standalone Gigabit Ethernet solution (Lacie Ethernet disk).

I like their products but they are not fault tolerant. Need a RAID solution still.
I don't bother with raid since I have the original. Yes its a pain to rip again, but the better solution would be to just back everyting up onto AIT/DLT/whatever tape drives and store them away, rather than running RAID. The file system TB limit (before it was 2) actually gets more in the way of things than RAID.


Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
Put them in a side by side useability test against the K-scape/Crestron system and you are nowhere near 'just as good'.

I think this is all perception opinion the price tag gives people a bias to start with. It would be cool to have a "blind" test side by side. It would be interesting to see the results.
No way. Trust me, forget the bias. Sit the wives down as most of them have no idea of the cost unless its been given away. Sit children down who have no clue as to the cost. You can't make a system com close for DVD storage that kids, wives, etc will pick over the k-scape type of setup. If there is, I haven't seen it and if someone has DIY and is willing to say there's is "BETTER" or "JUST as GOOD" I'd be all ears. No need for a blind side by side - everybody knows there isn't one better out there right now. My wife knows exactly how much it costs and she's used the Axionix, MainLobby setup, MyMovies setup, XMBC setup, and the K-scape. The K-scape is hands down, far and away that much better in terms of useability that in a blind side by side no one else stands a chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
btw, I was not overly impressed with Crestron, no more then with Control4 actually. Dont get me wrong they are good systems but again they didnt give me anything that I couldnt do as well for 1/5 the cost (of Crestron). Control4 is a lower price and I like it but again no solution for accessing my DVDs.

I think the hype proceeded Crestron demo so much that I was let down by it. I expected it to be twice as good as others for twice the price, it is not twice as good so it should not be twice the price.

If that is the case then you should be at Apex and stuck there. Mark Levinson or for that matter Denon is not 20x the performance of the cheap Apex DVD players. Yes they are easily 20x and 200x the price. . . What Crestron (and AMX) give you is a reliable system (and its 10x simpler than PC's) that works (if implemented well) day in and day out. If you enjoy tweaking forever, then it isn't the system for you. If you finally get past the tweaking and just want to plain USE the system (and have kids, wife, guests) be able to use the system - then its definitely something to consider. What Crestron excels at is the basic things that need to be done reliably. What Lutron is good at is doing those same things for lighting reliably. Yeah, the X10/UPB solutions are out there and work 'most of the time', but if you want rock solid reliability then look at the players that deliver rock solid performance. Yeah, they sometimes don't look as pretty but they can be made to look just as pretty , but their one overall purpose is to perform reliably - not most of the time.
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post #22 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks, you have some valid points.

The 1TB storage RAID is important for me because I have business database stuff and other things stored on it too so I need complete protection.

and its 10x simpler than PC's, not for my family :D Guests??? lol, they arent allowed to touch the equipment ;)


but their one overall purpose is to perform reliably - not most of the time.

There is definitely a premium to be paid for this. Im not one to worry about all the time, remember Im a software developer of the microsoft mentality things need to work most of the time ;) I will waste my money on other things and let things be imperfect since perfection is a premium only a few can truely afford.


Thanks for the discussion.

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post #23 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 12:37 PM
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You would be surprised at what a well designed guest entertainment system will buy you when you have guests/relatives/in-laws. . . I have in-laws that come in from overseas who are jet-lagged and (I don't have the k-scape system but am considering it) late into the night (or whenever you don't want to deal with them), if there is a well designed system that they can use w/o bothering you(or while you're working) - it is worth its weight in gold. They just go off and watch any DVD in the collection, or tv or whatever. This also applies to relatives and their kids, etc, etc.

What I meant by 10x simpler is that their programming is all logic based. It's symbolic and quite simple. You are limited in what you can do. You don't have to worry about things like overwriting memory because of undeclared strings, etc, etc.

Re: your database. Run a mirror/raid-1 (generally more reliable than a raid5) and its less hassle. Especially if you start spanning multiple drive systems/arrays for your media. 1 TB only holds about 160 or so DVD's. I run 6TB's right now and have space for 8. I keep critical stuff on mirrored drives that don't contain OS info either.
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post #24 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 12:50 PM
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You would be surprised at what a well designed guest entertainment system will buy you when you have guests/relatives/in-laws. . . I have in-laws that come in from overseas who are jet-lagged and (I don't have the k-scape system but am considering it) late into the night (or whenever you don't want to deal with them), if there is a well designed system that they can use w/o bothering you(or while you're working) - it is worth its weight in gold. They just go off and watch any DVD in the collection, or tv or whatever. This also applies to relatives and their kids, etc, etc.
Ah, now you're talking my language. My whole setup has been geared toward 3 people:
- M.I.L. who's a montessori school teacher who still doesn't like ATMs or self-service gas statsions
- F.I.L. who's an architect
- Primary babysitter who's an actor, and is baffled by his iPod.

I DIY'ed a system that they could understand, with a different view for me/wife who can handle more complexity. I didn't have to deal with a "lowest common denominator" mass market type of product.

Plus, I'm now giving away all those skins for free. I've walked 5 different people through the setup live, each time it took no more than 1hr to get them up&running with basic HT control over their whole setup. Not much time at all. So I'd argue that DIY'ing is a viable, if not preferable, way to accomodate a diverse set of users like you mention. You can assemble it to your specific population, not what Control4/AMX/etc think your population should be.

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post #25 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 02:26 PM
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[quote=penngray]
lol, yeah and the cabinet people say 10% of a home's costs is in Cabinets also :D
Pool/Spa, people say 10% of the home cost is in Pool and accessories for it. :D
Before I know it, 10 items take up 100% of my current budget for the new house Yikes!![quote]


That is so true. People think I'm crazy because I also think at least 20% of the budget should go towards landscaping (where most builders allocate less than 5%). It's mostly about lifestyle choices*. But it's about balancing priorities too (and who wears the pants in your family!). I think most of us here are DIY'ers or we wouldn't be lurking here. If you have the time and determination to do you own system...more power to you!. I'd say the same if you were planning to build your own cabinets. You usually get exactly what you want this way...IF you have the time (the most valuable commodity).
Another route many here go is to do part yourself (e.g. prewiring) and part with a pro. Don't expect a pro to be happy if you buy all your own equipment too though, as that is where their margin is.
One thing is for sure, if you do decide to put inexpensive solutions together for the masses, there certainly will be a market for them!

*Continuing the car comparisons, I'm always amazed that people don't think twice about dumping $35K on an average SUV they spend 2 hours a day in while balking at $35K to put entertainment into a house they spend most of their life in. But that's just me I guess.
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post #26 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by anthem
There are some other media storage solutions out there, but they cost about half to 2/3 as much as a K-scape, maybe a bit more. (Axionix, Mirv, AMX Max).
Really only two proven hard disk type servers out there. The Kaleidescape and the MAX by AMX. The MAX server will cost a bit more than the Kscape, but I prefer the Kscape over the MAX. And now Kscape just started with music storage.

JOE
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post #27 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm always amazed that people don't think twice about dumping $35K on an average SUV they spend 2 hours a day in while balking at $35K to put entertainment into a house they spend most of their life in. But that's just me I guess.

as you said its all about life choice :D, heck that isnt even that bad. I go on gambling trips 3 times a year and could lose more then what a house system would cost. I dont usually lose it but its a big bank roll and I have won big so it keeps the addiction going ;)

I cant build cars, I cant build great cabinets or do landscaping but I can build software/hardware systems and that is probably the reason I believe these big systems are overpriced.

The system IVB is building can be tweaked cosmetically and made bullet proof and there is no way Crestron would be better then a complete custom solution taylored to each individual. He could sell his custom solution for a $2000 profit and that is still a fraction of the cost. I'm Just using IVB as an example because he has show cased everything he has done for everyone.

The more I talk about this the more I think I can moonlight and make cash creating cheap custom solutions for people locally. Most cities dont even have any experts local. Of course I need to be successful at mine first :confused: :eek:

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post #28 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I've walked 5 different people through the setup live

IVB, you have been incredible so far and I would bet that its easily $5000 in your pocket if you choose to take a fee. Not saying you have to or you dont have to, totally your choice.

But the market is there and the great thing is that once you become an expert your product will be customized and awesome but still a fraction of the cost. Just seems to logical not to think that is the best route for most who dont care about a name on a box.

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post #29 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 04:04 PM
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2 words terrify me about that: "Tech Support".

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post #30 of 206 Old 03-15-2006, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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2 words terrify me about that: "Tech Support".

lol, yep it can be painful, I have a fantasy sports live draft and auction site that I have run for years for free. 200+ leagues have been run through it, 300 different users. I get 10-20 emails a week asking questions nothing to big but its all free.

now if its a business I have two great words for you "service contract" :D

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