Can Control4 cut it? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 272 Old 05-10-2006, 03:19 PM
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Please, Mr. Roddey. Yours is the far easier job with far less responsibility.
I wouldn't go that far. The whole 'Walk a mile in my shoes' thing and all that. My job has it's own set of demands that some folks would never accept. I've not taken a single day off in ~4 years now, and except for the occasional break at 10pm to watch a movie before going to bed (once a week if I can), I work from 10am to midnight or later 7 days a week, without a day off. It's not a job, it's a lifestyle. And my income right now is about $26K a year (in the middle of Silicon Valley no less, with rent of $1160/month right now). Though, that is way up from the zero it was for the first couple of those years.

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post #92 of 272 Old 05-10-2006, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean Roddey
I wouldn't go that far. The whole 'Walk a mile in my shoes' thing and all that. My job has it's own set of demands that some folks would never accept. I've not taken a single day off in ~4 years now, and except for the occasional break at 10pm to watch a movie before going to bed (once a week if I can), I work from 10am to midnight or later 7 days a week, without a day off. It's not a job, it's a lifestyle. And my income right now is about $26K a year (in the middle of Silicon Valley no less, with rent of $1160/month right now). Though, that is way up from the zero it was for the first couple of those years.
Dean,

Sitting naked in front of the computer and watching porn for 12 hours a day and coding for 2 hours a day doesn't qualify as hard work. Of course I'm only commenting on what I've heard second hand.
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post #93 of 272 Old 05-10-2006, 04:15 PM
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Sometimes watching porn takes a second hand.

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post #94 of 272 Old 05-10-2006, 05:08 PM
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Of course, if I could do all this stuff on two hours a day, I'd be one of those folks lying by the pool while you work your butt off in my conspicuously consumptive home.

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post #95 of 272 Old 05-11-2006, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by bigpapa
I don't think any of us here are common, whether it be financial or technical.
Technically, I'm very common. That's why I appreciate all the pros who post here and provide us with their valuable time, for free (that never gets lost on me).

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Originally Posted by bigpapa
TJK, I think it's apparent that you're poor... when compared to the wealthy clients who have 3 monster homes!
I only feel poor when I read some stuff here on AVS :)

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Originally Posted by bigpapa
The 'poor' jab to tjk was intended to be a pun, nothing negative or disrespectful. I do think he's wealthy compared to me, and I don't think he's 'common' in the sense of income or affordability. Not meant to be an insult at all. I hoped somebody laughed, especially him.
I definitely laughed - and I would have responded sooner but I was up to my ass in work yesterday. Then I brought my 6 week old into my office to show her off and she crapped on my desk :eek: It was a busy afternoon.

I feel bad for some of the CI's on this forum that come here out of goodwill and have to read posts that say they're overcharging and screwing customers over. I would find it offensive that some people are so outraged that an installer/dealer/programmer is actually turning a profit! My God, how egregious! We all work to make money to buy things and spend time with our families and friends. CI's, dealers are no exception and everyone is entitled to make a buck. I have no idea how common or wealthy bigpapa is - nor do I care. I hope he has a very successful business, and I hope he has so many installs to do that he's paying someone to install a $1M system in his oceanfront home. Do some installers/dealers suck? Sure - and when someone is trying to sell something for more than MSRP or charging too much for programming, they can and should be called out on it. But let's not bash the whole industry, particularly the folks that post here FOR FREE.

There are a lot of folks at AVS that have systems that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Part of the magic of AVS is when these folks can advise someone where to get budget gear or cables that have a high value proposition. What I think a lot of people get annoyed with, however, is when SOME posts take a different tone. As an example (and this is just an example), someone may ask where to find cheap speaker cable, and you get a response from someone akin to saying that if you don't have some brand of cable that costs $200 a foot then why are you even wasting your time? Again, that's just an example, and maybe a poor one since cable debates always spark emotion.

My point is, and this is where it relates to this thread, is that SOME posts with respect to C4 seem to take a similar tone. No, C4 can't do what a $1M custom Crestron job can do. I think when someone asks what Crestron can do that C4 can't, it's a legitimate question, and I think the comparison they're looking for is more like a C4 installation to a low-end Crestron system ($20 - $50K range). No one in their right mind would think that C4 could do everything a $1M+ Crestron system can do - so saying you get ALL the functionality at some fraction of the price is misleading when taken in that context.

I think most of us still participating in this discussion violently agree. I can therefore end my rant and sum up the whole thread :D :

1. Yes, Control4 can cut it in terms of its business plan and the market it is going after.
2. Crestron, whether directly or indirectly, is responding to Control4 and other "entry level" control systems with Adagio. Control4, CQC, and others have provided folks, even those that could afford a full-blown Crestron install, with another viable option at a lower price point. The announcement of Adagio, particulary well before Crestron typically announces products, means someone at Crestron realizes C4 will take share away from Crestron, and they want to put a stop to that (by definition, if one person goes into a dealer looking for a Crestron system and they walk out a C4 customer), then Crestron has lost share.
3. Crestron and AMX will be around for a long time. This is not the end of them.
4. With a good product, C4 will also be around for a long time.
5. There's two ways to increase revenue in the business world: steal someone else's piece of the pie, or make the pie bigger. C4 will do a little of both, but much more so I believe everyone hopes that they will make the pie bigger, expanding Home Automation from the niche market it is now to something a few more people (but still a small percentage of the population) will implement. The untapped 99.9% of the home market is what makes this industry so attractive.

OK, I'm done. Time for some actual work.

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post #96 of 272 Old 05-11-2006, 10:26 AM
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Alright, which one of us paid TJK to write that? It wasn't me. ;)

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post #97 of 272 Old 05-11-2006, 10:28 AM
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1. Agreed
2. Not necessarily agree... there's some speculation that Adagio was announced by Crestron to actually get people to hold off on C4 purchases... I wouldn't put it past them. That action is a direct reaction to C4, yes. But the development and marketing of Adagio isn't related to C4 at all, it's a reaction to that market that C4 has share in. Crestron decided to partake of that market because of the growth potential, and I think they recognize that this market segment has the potential to dwarf the ultra luxury/high end market in a few years.

So, if you say Adagio is a direct reaction to C4, I don't agree. If you say Adagio is a direct reaction to the development of the entry level automation market that C4 and others are capitalizing on, then I would agree.

3.Agreed
4.Agreed. I hope they survive. I might actually make some money on them should they survive.
5.The Pie will get ginormous. I expect 20% or more of homes will have automation of some kind in the next ten years. I expect 2nd tier tract homes to all have automation (not an upgrade) in 5 to 10 years.

That's a big industry.

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OK, I'm done. Time for some actual work.
There's no work in web design! I worked commercial in the early 2000's, you guys play foosball all day and get catered lunches. Don't worry, I won't tell. ;)
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post #98 of 272 Old 05-11-2006, 03:00 PM
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From the horse's mouth: Crestron began to visit dealers whom they thought were doing what Crestron felt was significant business with them. They sat down with those dealers and discovered that they were doing 2 to 3 times more with lower priced alternatives such as Russound, Elan or Speakercraft. Crestron wanted that business and so Adagio was born. It was not conceived as a answer to C4. I suspect much like Replay and Tivo, both products were conceived at the same time for similiar reasons. Did Crestron have some idea that lower priced alternatives might come to market? Perhaps. But as I have no access to their engineering or marketing data I can only guess. Crestron does wish to play in the bigger pond where what someone above called the "common folks" swim. Not everyone, even those like AJF who can afford anything they desire, wish to spend what a full blown balls to the wall AMX/Crestron system costs.

It seems to me that the success or failure of C4 will depend on their ability to offer relable products that do 80% of what other systems offer. I think reliability is the most important criteria in their success. It will not matter if you can only interface into a few particular sub systems. If you want to interface into a security sysetm and they can only automate one system then you will purchase that system. If they can only talk to one brand of thermostats then it will be that brand which will be installed. But they need to develop a serial driver utility that permits sending dynamic values. And thier products need to be proven reliable. If they can attain these outcomes they will be successful. I have no idea where they fall on this scale. I can postulate that it would be a difficult system to turn a profit on if there were any kind of installation issues. Their price points are attractive to the great mass of consumers but inversely attractive to a professional. Some problem always occurs that is unexpected. If installing C4 becomes as simple as installing a consumer router and more or less as reliable then it will be extremely successful.

Unfortunately automation is not a closed system where everyone observes a common protocol. RC5 IR toggle codes, no discrete codes, serial protocols that almost, sorta work. Note how difficult it is to roam on consumer wireless gear. Might this prove an issue to multiple C4 wireless devices sitting on their network? It is to these issues, not to say the relablilty of their large, inexpensive panels that will ultimately prove how successful they are. Mr and Mrs America want value but value is defined as something that works 95% of the time not 50% of the time. Cool graphics will be a nice edition but hardly something that will make or break their system.

Crestronand AMX ain't going away either. What will happen to the Elans, Russound, and Niles will be the real question.

Alan
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post #99 of 272 Old 05-11-2006, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by audiblesolutions
...even those like AJF who can afford anything they desire...Alan
Reports of my vast wealth have been greatly exaggerated . (sorry Mark Twain )

You know I'm self employed just like you guys . You have a good year, you start thinking Crestron, not so good year, X-10 .

But I think I can average out at Adaggio or C4 now that those options are available . :)
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post #100 of 272 Old 05-11-2006, 05:07 PM
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This came in my email today:
"Adagio is Now Shipping! "

The next question will be if either Tony or Dave will finally move off of the fence or continue to be living archetypes for J. Alfred Proofrock.

"
And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?"
Time to turn back and descend the stair, ..............
Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach........ "

Might it be a time of reckoning for either of these two famous procrastinators to sing an other song?

Alan
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post #101 of 272 Old 05-11-2006, 05:29 PM
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I certainly stumbled headlong into your trap Alan . You're much more devious than I could have imagined .
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post #102 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 09:42 AM
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Crestron began to visit dealers whom they thought were doing what Crestron felt was significant business with them. They sat down with those dealers and discovered that they were doing 2 to 3 times more with lower priced alternatives such as Russound, Elan or Speakercraft.
lol, I dont know how many times I have sat in a boardroom talking about new software development with management and heard the reasons really for it and then read the public reasons for it. What spin! ;)

Crestron is obviously a leader and a good company so with that there is no doubt they know what their competitors are doing, they know who the new players are and they research the market segments the C4s of the world are going after. Directly or In-directly doesnt matter C4 and others have given the industry new focus on that new growth market called the "common folk" segment ;)

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post #103 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 12:24 PM
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Directly or In-directly doesnt matter C4 and others have given the industry new focus on that new growth market called the "common folk" segment
Actually, C4 isn't the 'leading' force in this new industry, at least to the level that some posters seem to state here. I'm not trying to marginalize them here, but this 'new focus' was developing several years ago with Phast and whatnot. I consider C4 a big player in this market at this time, but there's so many other players out there that I'd be shocked if they even had a majority of market segment. Omni and HAI might actually be bigger, I think they've been shipping product for longer.

I don't know why C4 has been elected the representative alternate/cheaper automation platform on this forum, but I guess it works for us all. Let's give them the kudos they deserve when they've actually earned them.

The reality isn't that Crestron reacted to the market, powered by the demand, created by the previous 'first adopters' and the AMX's and Crestrons of yesterday. I now consider the C4's et al the current 'first adopters' because this market and platform is still in it's relatively early phases. I just don't agree that Crestron is entering the market just because C4 is 'doing so welll.' That to me is spin.

By the way, I don't consider Alan a politician. We all have bias, yes, but I'd never expect him to spin or BS anything. It's not in his 'code' to BS.
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post #104 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bigpapa
Actually, C4 isn't the 'leading' force in this new industry, at least to the level that some posters seem to state here. I consider C4 a big player in this market at this time, but there's so many other players out there that I'd be shocked if they even had a majority of market segment. Omni and HAI might actually be bigger, I think they've been shipping product for longer.

I don't know why C4 has been elected the representative alternate/cheaper automation platform on this forum, but I guess it works for us all. Let's give them the kudos they deserve when they've actually earned them.

I just don't agree that Crestron is entering the market just because C4 is 'doing so welll.' That to me is spin.
I'm in no way trying to be argumentative, and really who cares why Crestron or AMX do what they do (unless you own stock in the company). But, from my layman's perspective, why do I think Control 4 is being anointed as the alternate automation platform? Abt Electronics in the Chicago area is one of the biggest electronics dealers in the country. The sell a mix of high end and "common folk" stuff, so they're really all over the map in terms of who they sell to. They're far too big for a lot of folks who like to shop in the boutique type high-end stores, not to mention they also sell appliances. But they are very well respected, and they used to be a Crestron dealer (still listed on CEDIA's site as being one). But go to their website - no mention of Crestron - they are now exclusively Control4.

Regardless of what you think of Abt and the markets they cater to, the fact is I can say without doing any research that I'm certain they do more custom installs and home theaters in Illinois than any other retailer/installer. Every C4 system they install is another potential Crestron customer lost. My point is, they must have been pretty impressive for Abt to have dropped Crestron in their favor. At least the sales prospects must have been pretty impressive, and that is what Crestron is "reacting" to with Adagio.

Who knows, maybe they were a lousy Crestron dealer, and they did Crestron a favor. But I think if a company like Abt kicked me out for a competitor, I would take notice. That's one reason why I, at least, keep bringing up C4 as a big deal - they've established a pretty impressive distribution system, at least here in Chicago. Just my $.02.

Edit: My bad, they don't show as a Crestron dealer anymore. But I could swear they did a month ago when I looked.

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post #105 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 01:08 PM
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I think what separates C4 from other systems such as HAI, Premise Systems, Homeseer, etc. is that they provided a total package, hardware and software, similar to that of Crestron/AMX at an unbelievably low price (in comparson). Not only that, their system uses the latest technologies: IP based, wireless, Zigbee mesh etc.
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post #106 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 01:47 PM
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With respect to the big boys and the common folk, every player in the industry understood two factors. A retrofit solution was going to yield more sales than one predicated upon wiring in preconstruction. In other words there are more existing structures than new or ones under renovation. A product that could be retrofitted would garner more sales than one that required wires. There might be some trade offs in terms of speed or distance or some other factor ( like price ) but it was a much larger market then new or rennovated homes.

2. Every manufacturer wishes to move boxes. The fewer obsticles to placing a product into a major discounter and the more the liklihood is that sales will go through the roof. The biggest stumbling block has been the requirement to program these systems. Huge investments in software wizzards were made by Crestron and AMX and to varrying degrees they have been successful; sort of and within some limitations.

They have been trying to reach into a different market for years. I suspect this is partly why AMX bought Phast years ago ( although conspiracy theorists may wish to suggest that their real purpose was to kill it ). I have no idea what Crestron knows " they know what their competitors are doing, they know who the new players [are]" or not. Did they know that C4 was coming to market with a particular product skew? Perhaps or not. Crestron certainly knows the market has changed. They sponsored marketing training for their dealers these past 2 years to hammer home this point that the world had changed and that business models would need to as well. I doubt that Crestron or any other existing manufacturer needed any prodding in terms of the burgeoning untapped market of value consumers or "common folk." How Chinese made equipment fits into the Crestron made in the USA philosophy is beyond me to guess. But a Product like Adagio does not get conceived, designed and built in just a year. Just the OEM negotiations might take a year or more. Clearly all players in this industry have sort to target this segment to one degree or an other.

The issue with respect to C4 will be to what degree that can make their products reliable and to the degree they can support them. I can almost never understand any Indian tech support rep with whom I am forced to converse to solve some problem. Those in South America are a little easier but not very much so. If their hardware, whatever its limitations, is stable, its software works within its limitations and its price remains what it is then all of you will be happy. I can assure you that while I may not survive in this industry Crestron and AMX will survive. Adagio provides a lower priced alternative from the best in the industry. That may even make a famous procrastinator such as Tony come down from the fense. Then again, perhaps not. But providing a lower cost alternative was clearly on Crestron's radar screen for some time.

Alan
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post #107 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 03:12 PM
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Maybe you will knock me off the fence when you let us know what you think of Adagio after you've installed it in your toture chamber . Or will you keep that to yourself ?
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post #108 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 03:15 PM
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I think AJF really hit the point. Crestron is known as a real end to end solution provider. A very robust, top of the line control system, full range of audio/video and lighting. All in one neat, albeit expensive, package. C4 has taken direct aim at the type of solution Crestron provides, not the same market, but the same approach, end to end solution. They also offer control, a/v and lighting in one package. Aimed at totally different markets, but a similar approach.

The other players in the C4 market like HAI, ELk etc, are controllers/security. You need to then integrate with some third parties for the a/v and lighting. Much more work to integrate for either a DIy or dealer. This is why I think C4 has been annointed the savior in this market.

As Alan says, C4 will live or die by the reliability of its equpment in the long run. If it works as advertised without a lot of bugs, it will most likely survive and even thrive. If it is buggy and a pain in the ass to live with, it will die. Just like any of the other dozens of players to come and then go in this space. I hope they do well.
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post #109 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AJF
Maybe you will knock me off the fence when you let us know what you think of Adagio after you've installed it in your toture chamber . Or will you keep that to yourself ?
Care to jump in your car and pay a visit? No, I do not have a fancy show room. Yes, I do use my family as a beta site. When my 4 year old can turn on a system and tune it to the Disney Channel I believe I have programmed a system that anyone can use. When my 9 year old can find a DVD on a Video Requst or record a show on to a ReplayTV and watch that recording I believe that most anyone can do it. I have far fewer Adagios in the line as I tend to do more automation than some and I am a very small house. QQQ probably does more systems in a month then I do in a year. But I will have the Adagio in house with the APAD if for no other reason then to put it through its paces. However, I just received the new Sherbourn Tuner ( the one that is supposed to have a working AM section ) and I have promised them a working Crestron macro. That will come first and I need to finish my project in the Great White North. First comes contractual responsiblilites. Next promises I have made. Finally research and development.

I do have the IPOD interface. It's still boxed but within 2 weeks it will have my daughter's IPOD in it and if she has a smile on her face I'll know if it's a winner.

Now can you teach me to take a photograph that is not blurred?

Alan
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post #110 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 06:50 PM
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I think what separates C4 from other systems such as HAI, Premise Systems, Homeseer, etc. is that they provided a total package, hardware and software, similar to that of Crestron/AMX at an unbelievably low price (in comparson).
Duly noted, I think that's a key point. That also seems to be where AMX and Crestron separate also... I don't think I've ever seen an AMX amp or AV switch. As far as control and interfaces go, AMX otherwise is about as seamless as it comes.
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post #111 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 07:19 PM
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I really don't know much about Abt (yet I've heard of them). I don't know if I'd necessarily trust a company to do a full blown Crestron system in a monster home, and install the fridge too. Maybe the reasons for the switch are as you think, or maybe something else. I have only my experience to rely on, so you'll get a feel for my unknowing sentiment about Abt;

I've cut my teeth on tract homes. Used to prewire 2 a day (smaller ones), 1 a day for bigger ones. Lower floor alarm, sometimes intercom systems, etc. 5.1 prewires well before 7.1.

A big system for them back then was a Unity system... giant monitor, one color, touchscreen. We tried to work in monster homes, got a few, didn't screw one up but weren't exactly German efficiency if you know what I mean.

Nowadays, I work at a place that is in magazines, president is board member of CEDIA, projects in very expensive markets with large budgets. We're good at it(well, according to some people, but I'm a perfectionist and there's room for improvement). I work with some big talent, we do some awesome stuff, I'm proud to be here doing what I'm doing. I'm not showing off, I'm making a point....

I don't think the company I work at now should be doing lower floor alarms with 5.1 prewires in tract homes, it's just not our deal. As for Abt, I'm wondering why they're doing (or were doing) Crestron... is it because they just think C4 is better stuff, do they just think they can make more money on it, or is it just easier to deal with and fit into their business model?

It might be just one of them, or maybe all three. Hell, maybe the Crestron rep didn't take the CTO to golf enough, I really don't know. It's just that I would be surprised if they dumped Crestron and went to C4 purely because C4's the future.

I'd guess most C4 installs weren't Crestron's to lose to begin with, unless Adagio could get to market soon. You might say that Adagio might've lost some jobs to C4.

I think part of their decision maybe that they realized that they weren't doing the monster homes enough to make a difference, so they went with value. I really don't know, but I'd love to hear from a tech who works there. Anybody out there?
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post #112 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 07:22 PM
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Crestron IPOD interface box is sweet. Lots of two way and control. Works great. Put my first one in two weeks ago.
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post #113 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tjk
But they are very well respected, and they used to be a Crestron dealer (still listed on CEDIA's site as being one). But go to their website - no mention of Crestron - they are now exclusively Control4.

Regardless of what you think of Abt and the markets they cater to, the fact is I can say without doing any research that I'm certain they do more custom installs and home theaters in Illinois than any other retailer/installer. Every C4 system they install is another potential Crestron customer lost. My point is, they must have been pretty impressive for Abt to have dropped Crestron in their favor. At least the sales prospects must have been pretty impressive, and that is what Crestron is "reacting" to with Adagio.

Who knows, maybe they were a lousy Crestron dealer, and they did Crestron a favor. But I think if a company like Abt kicked me out for a competitor, I would take notice. That's one reason why I, at least, keep bringing up C4 as a big deal - they've established a pretty impressive distribution system, at least here in Chicago. Just my $.02.

Edit: My bad, they don't show as a Crestron dealer anymore. But I could swear they did a month ago when I looked.
I'm afraid your facts are incorrect. Abt is not nor have they ever been a Crestron dealer. I think your post may contain some other inaccuracies/assumptions as well :).
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post #114 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 07:55 PM
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post #115 of 272 Old 05-12-2006, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by QQQ
I'm afraid your facts are incorrect. Abt is not nor have they ever been a Crestron dealer. I think your post may contain some other inaccuracies/assumptions as well :).
Damn, tripQ beat me to it. To think of ABT as doing high end installs (high end as in price or quality of work) is one of the funniest things I have read here in a while.

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post #116 of 272 Old 05-14-2006, 11:45 AM
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What do you consider a "high end" install in terms of price and quality?

Marek
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post #117 of 272 Old 05-14-2006, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mstonkus
What do you consider a "high end" install in terms of price and quality?
How about $100K being high end.

Quality is harder to define, since you could incorporate software and GUI programming in that. Obviously running cable and connectorizing has a value, so a sloppy wiring and/or install is of lower quality.
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post #118 of 272 Old 05-14-2006, 01:43 PM
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There are two ways to look at a "high end" installation.

1. The best components. Even here what are the best components? You have all these other forums where participants argue over .00000000000000000000000001% differences between components. So might a 3 chip DLP @ 20k be "the best?" Or must one move into 150-250k digital cinema projectors? Is a good, calibrated theater speaker system "high end" or must it be some high priced esoteric brand? Might one define high end by the sound pressure it can produce, from an EQ curve or by price?

I think a high end system is not merely one where expensive components are bought and installed. It presupposes a proper installation where the equipment is installed correctly and properly calibrated.

2. A second way to look at high end is by the number of subsystems conrolled. I would argue that an automation system that controls centralized and decentralized A/V gear, lights, HVAC, pool/spa/security was high end even if the A/V equipment was not.

Might it be possible to have a sub 100k high end installation? I think so. QQQ would undoubtedly argue that a front projection system that did not incorporate a multi-aspect ratio screen was not high end. But if I had a uni-aspect ratio 16:9 screen, a scaler like a Lumagen or KDS, a front projector like the Sim2-C3x, a decent, if unspectacular surround processor like an Integra DTR-8.1 and a Triad Silver LCR system and a DVD player like a DVP-801, coupled with a HD cable or satellite box and I'd wager this a system all but a few would call high end. It would not require a really expensive control system and I think it would be under 100k; perhaps not by much but nonetheless sub 100k. Does high end also imply room correction, as in bass traps, defractors and absorbers? Does it include changing the room's dimensions to minimize standing waves? Is high end a system capable of producing ear drum splitting sound pressure levels?

Is high end merely an investment in expensive equipment? Is it an attention to detail as in redesigning the room to fit the acousitical predictions or it it the proper location and calibration of what ever equipment installed? Does it presuppose a control system or might that be considered a compromise?


Might high end be super customized software as might occur in a business where the control system must interface with a propritary software database?

Years ago when I worked in a supposedly high end audio salon high end meant very expensive equipment indifferently installed and very hard for the end user to use. I guess for me high end implies an attention to detail that most are unwiling or unable to afford and many installers are unable to attempt.

Alan
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post #119 of 272 Old 05-14-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstonkus
What do you consider a "high end" install in terms of price and quality?
I do not think "high-end" must necessarily be defined by price, though price is of course often involved. I *personally* would probably not find a 50K Control4 system to be "high-end" (IF we are reserving the term high-end for best of the best) because it has too many limitations to qualify for the term. On the other hand I think a 25K CQS system (just to pick a number) could well qualify for the term high-end IF it was well executed. Execution is everything and even an AMX or Crestron system is not high-end in my mind if it is not properly executed.

And before someone tells me I'm out of touch, certainly by most peoples standards Control4 would be high-end.

My philosphy is that I want to work for Clients that value quality and aren't looking for the lowest price (though it's certainly fair to want a fair price), and do Not limit myself only to Clients that want to spend xxxxxx dollars. My philosophy about high-end is much the same. It's not defined only by price.
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post #120 of 272 Old 05-14-2006, 02:49 PM
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"High End" simply means what the majority of people can not afford so... What do you consider a "high end" install in terms of price and quality?


In HA 20K is "high End" to the majority of people (heck 10K could be high end). Of course you guys wont consider it high end at all but then again the audience shouldnt be you guys.


How about $100K being high end. A 50K system is not high end?


This goes back to my opinion that some of you seem to be separated from most of our realities. Its hard to discuss with anyone HA when they have the opinion.... I *personally* would probably not find a 25K Control4 system to be "high-end" The point of reference simply doesnt connect with almost all of us.

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