I need to build an AV room - help please! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 73 Old 06-01-2006, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help!

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #2 of 73 Old 06-01-2006, 04:10 PM
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When money isn't an issue, I'd say you're the perfect candidate for a custom installer. Call two or three high end shops in your area and get bids, pick the one that offers the best solutions, get the work done, pay them, and enjoy!

Oh, and Control4 can't cut it, or so I'm told. ;)

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post #3 of 73 Old 06-01-2006, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks but im looking to keep it in house, once i have a setup, it will be a standard used in 30 other places.

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post #4 of 73 Old 06-01-2006, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metric
Thanks but im looking to keep it in house, once i have a setup, it will be a standard used in 30 other places.
What does "keep it in house" mean? Do it yourself?

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post #5 of 73 Old 06-01-2006, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVB
What does "keep it in house" mean? Do it yourself?
Yep, sorry. I want to source the equipment myself, have my own staff install it, have my devs write the netremote controls for girder, and then package the kit as an AV solution standard that can be used over and over.

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post #6 of 73 Old 06-01-2006, 06:32 PM
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If budget isn't an issue and you're reselling this, why would you use netremote & girder instead of something more robust?

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post #7 of 73 Old 06-01-2006, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Not reselling, all internal use... what is more robust that can give me the functionality?

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #8 of 73 Old 06-01-2006, 07:50 PM
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Based on what you want to do, CQC. See the posts I've made about that. For not much more $$, you get 10x more functionality, and certainly 10x the robustness. it's designed to be network distributable. It's targeted towards a higher-end/professional market, but it's DIY-friendly.

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post #9 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, i did a search, but exactly what does it give me? and what is the hardware solution available? have you tried it?

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post #10 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVB
Based on what you want to do, CQC. See the posts I've made about that. For not much more $$, you get 10x more functionality, and certainly 10x the robustness. it's designed to be network distributable. It's targeted towards a higher-end/professional market, but it's DIY-friendly.
I know this is gonna come off rude and I really dont intend to be but here goes...

Are there any other users of CQC? I've been trolling this forum for some time trying to decide on an exact plan for audio distribution in my house and keep reading your posts about CQC. Your setup looks very cool. But it seems you are the only voice promoting, or even using, CQC.

Is the userbase very strong? I'd be curious to see what others have done with it...
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post #11 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 06:57 AM
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Perhaps you might want to visit the CQC forums where you'll be able to read posts from more users.
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post #12 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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A link?

This is one part of the info I need... if anyone has any comments on matrix boxes, or balans etc - please chime in :)

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post #13 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 07:29 AM
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Very strong userbase, but for some reason, I notice no one talks about what they're personally using for this on almost any forum I'm on. I find that odd, as if I've found a successful way to do something, I should probably share so that others don't waste their $$ or time on paths that don't work.

Unfortunately, the old forum got nuked by CQC's ISP 5 days ago, and there's a new forum up. There's a distinct possibility the old one may not be able to be exported to the new one.

Here's a link to the "User Systems" forum on the old one, but you won't be able to post questions there. You'll be able to see what folks have done: http://72.41.26.33/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=10

Here's a link to the new forum, posts are slowly being manually migrated: http://www.charmedquark.com/vb_forum/index.php

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post #14 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 08:21 AM
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I know that most of the readers have been expecting this answer, but Crestron has been providing this solution for at least twenty years. This solution is pretty much available off the shelf from any decent commercial integrator (or residential for that matter). Why reinvent the wheel in a commercial endeavor where budget is not a concern?
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post #15 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch999
Why reinvent the wheel in a commercial endeavor where budget is not a concern?
There's certainly a lot of validity to that statement. I may be a consummate DIY'er, but I have to admit, if I had an unlimited checking account, I'd certainly pay someone else to do it while I sat by the pool.

Esp after spending my entire non-work/non-familytime life running ($&*%* cables all over my house for the last month, and only being halfway done.

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post #16 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I am thinking of using these products; thoughts?


CRM62 Component Matrix switch
http://www.video-storm.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CRM62

Audio Authority 9870 - component / audio to cat5
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro...les/aa9870.asp

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post #17 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 09:48 AM
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Don't know anything about this stuff, here's some other brands of video switchers that you may want to check out. I know there's several CQC'ers using these in their live systems, as there's already drivers written. Most folks are using the AutoPatch, but I think more and more folks are looking at the Neothings.

- AutoPatch 1YDM/4YDM
- Neothings Avalon
- DVI LInk DS-41R
- Extron SW* Switchers
- Extron System 8+
- Extron System 10+
- Key Digital KD-SW4x1
- Kramer 2053
- Zektor HDS4.2

The biggest advice I can think of is to closely check out the protocol for each, as not all of them are that easy to work with. A simple way to get an overview of them is to look at the Learn.Supported Devices page for CQC, and see what commands it supports. It's likely a subset of the overall protocol, but you can begin to get a feeling for what the options are for RS232 control, regardless of whether you use CQC or Girder.

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post #18 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Are there any other users of CQC? I've been trolling this forum for some time trying to decide on an exact plan for audio distribution in my house and keep reading your posts about CQC. Your setup looks very cool. But it seems you are the only voice promoting, or even using, CQC.

Is the userbase very strong? I'd be curious to see what others have done with it...
More and more everyday....I dont think this is the forum to post much about CQC though since CQC has its own forum.

The community is the strongest I have ever been involved with and I have been with many, many online communities for different hobbies. The knowledge and actually code shared is incredible.

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post #19 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 11:03 AM
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I want to squirt the video and audio over cat5
why? If you are creating a re-useable config and want to install many different locations you should probably just run coaxial (RG6) for your solution, plus quality should be an issue for you cat5 (should be cat6) isnt the best quality solution. You will find more devices that suit your needs for matrix solutions....neothings avalon 4x8 switch or Key Digital KD-SW4x1 are component video (RG6) solutions. Key digital had a sale recently ($199) for the key digital switch (2 would work for you solution since it looks like you need to video outs)

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post #20 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 11:04 AM
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btw, also CQC has a professional/CI section if you are considering reselling your AV/HT room design.

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post #21 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 11:14 AM
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Please don't take this wrong, but based on your original post, you don't seem to have the experience that would be necessary to pull this off. You may be able to do it for yourself, since you would live with it and be able to tweak it when needed, but I doubt that the system would be bullet-proof enough to sell or install in multiple locations.

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post #22 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
More and more everyday....I dont think this is the forum to post much about CQC though since CQC has its own forum.

The community is the strongest I have ever been involved with and I have been with many, many online communities for different hobbies. The knowledge and actually code shared is incredible.
The reason I see it differently is that most folks don't yet know about CQC. We need to inform folks of their options, let them decide.

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post #23 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperRabbit0
I know this is gonna come off rude and I really dont intend to be but here goes...

Are there any other users of CQC? I've been trolling this forum for some time trying to decide on an exact plan for audio distribution in my house and keep reading your posts about CQC. Your setup looks very cool. But it seems you are the only voice promoting, or even using, CQC.

Is the userbase very strong? I'd be curious to see what others have done with it...
I really don't want to hijack the OP's thread, but I'm another user. Actually I should say owner, my system is under developement now. I have been following the program for several years and have been "sold" on it for some time, but I have had no time for automation stuff (except prewire) untill recently. I don't have much time now. There are a number of users that are not frequent posters anywhere that I have seen, and there is just now beginning to be a group start with the product that are a bit more vocal. Many of them came to the program via IVB. There are now several integrators that are working with the product and many DIY'rs. Most of them were looking for an alternative to Crestron and AMX because they either wanted to do it themselves and/or save a few bucks. Most of us will tell you that you can save money, but not time with this approach. The program is not for everybody, but I think that most technically minded people can get behind it. The learning curve is very steep at first but seems to level off fairly quickly

To Metric; This is a fairly standard control situation and as fletch999 said this is a standard install for AMX and Crestron although I would consider CQC to be an excellent choice as well. If for some reason you are bound to keep it in house, it would be my choice. What you want to do is possible with Net Remote and Girder, but I don't think that it would be even my forth choice. If you have in house developers, they should be able to handle any additional drivers, macros etc. that you would need for CQC. I can't speak for Dean (the developer) but his support is generally excellent.

I started to respond to this last night, but I went on to other things. Is there some reason that you are so interested in moving the AV over CAT5? It sounds like this a a big board room or small auditorium. If that's the case and running wire is possible, using CAT5 will only add to your box count. One other thing that I had reservations about was "presenting" to the projector wirelessly. I'm not certain what you're trying to do there, and I would think this could be done, but I don't think I'd want to be giving my annual presentation to the CEO over it. Maybe the pros will have some good ideas on that. Most venues that I have been in like this have had a connector available to allow a presenter to connect their laptop etc.

I took off this week to catch up on some personal business and develop my own CQC interfaces, so I guess I ought to go do some of that!

Good Luck,
Mike

Mike

An avid DIY'r and a proponent of Firewire
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post #24 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies; for the record i am a lowly network admin that has been given a remit for this setup... ive built my own home theater before but using conventional technology and budget solutions like girder. This isnt rocket science, so i dont see an issue doing this myself but this side of technology is new to me as is my ever changing requirements.

CQC is the way to go for what we want as we are already looking at HAI for other things. I dont have to run any HD source over cat so thats one thing less to consider.

Im not reselling, but packaging a solution for our business units to copy, thats all.

Thanks for the help; I guess im now looking for simplist solution that CQC supports... avalon probably wont be a go because its coax/optical audio.

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #25 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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It will be for board rooms yep :) and i didnt choose cat as the cabling :)

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post #26 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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This is what I plan to use for wireless presentation:

http://www.projectorpeople.com/scree...t.asp?sid=OVWJ

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post #27 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 01:42 PM
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In a corporate setting, the number one priority in a system like this is reliability. Bullet proof reliability. When the CEO needs to have a meeting and the projector won't fire up or the audio is out of sync or whatever, the homegrown solution cobbled together from various parts, no matter how well thought out, is the wrong solution. Crestron and AMX have built probably a million rooms exactly like you are describing and they work every time. With very little support.

Do yourself a favor and call a large integrator that specializes in Board room/conference room systems. Ther are even several that are nationwide and can support all your locations.

This is in no way a slam against CQC, which by all accounts is a great product, or against the OPs capabilities, but Crestron/AMX specialize in this business.

And, oh yeah, Crestron has off the shelf video distribution over Cat5 that works without question.
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post #28 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice but I will be proceeding with my own solution; thank you though.

I want to die in my sleep like grandpa... not kicking and screaming like the people in his car.
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post #29 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 07:24 PM
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This is in no way a slam against CQC, which by all accounts is a great product, or against the OPs capabilities, but Crestron/AMX specialize in this business.
A professional install of CQC or many other product is just as reliable as Crestron or AMX period. Its the person involved that makes the product reliable not the hardware itself since hardware in general are "dumb" devices.

The OP has already posted he wants to have his people in house do the job.

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post #30 of 73 Old 06-02-2006, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
A professional install of CQC or many other product is just as reliable as Crestron or AMX period.
"Period"? Have you installed all 3 products as well as "many other products" and had them in the field for years integrated with hundreds of other products so you can make such a statement? I'm NOT saying CQC cannot be as reliable, rather I'm just humored when people pretend to have such confidence ("period") that they are stating fact when it's nothing more than opinion (BS? ;)) with no facts to back it up. And yes, I have the same opinion when custom installers who have never even used CQC start commenting that CQC can't possibly be reliable because it's based on Windows when they have never even tested it - I especially have a problem with it when they don't add any qualifications to the statement. For instance, there's clearly a HUGE difference between the potential for problems between an installation of CQC that runs on a dedicated PC (good) versus one that runs on a PC that's being used as a house PC running a bunch of applications (probably Not good). Which relates to your next statement.
Quote:
Its the person involved that makes the product reliable not the hardware itself since hardware in general are "dumb" devices.
I mostly agree though even the best person can't make unreliable equipment reliable.
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