My plan for HD to other rooms need experts opinions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 02-08-2008, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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OK guys here is what I have in my plan.
I am having a Dish 722 DVR instaled tomorrow, all 3 of these TV's share the same channel and are controlled with UHF remotes and i want to feed HD to all of them. my plan seems cost effective if anyone see's a problem let me know. Or if I am right on let me know too LOL

TV1 42 Inch Olevia (is at location of 722DVR)
TV2 32 Inch Vizio (is about 10 feet from 722DVR)
TV3 19 Inch Westinghouse (about 15 feet otherway from 722DVR)

My plan to to install a monoprice 1x4 powered HDMI Splitter (when they are back instock)
So one output from it would feed right in to the 42 Inch Olevia at the same location.
The other 2 TV's I plan to use HDMI over cat5e units, I can get them with good looking specs for about 65.00 per set shipped in.
this will leave one open port on the splitter amp. will leaving the one port open matter?
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post #2 of 26 Old 02-09-2008, 11:04 PM
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Well a splitter will confine you to sharing the same src on all TVs... Other than that I'd just say good luck w/HDMI handshaking. I'm going component to avoid problems.
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post #3 of 26 Old 02-10-2008, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geek4rent View Post

TV1 42 Inch Olevia (is at location of 722DVR)
TV2 32 Inch Vizio (is about 10 feet from 722DVR)
TV3 19 Inch Westinghouse (about 15 feet otherway from 722DVR)

The other 2 TV's I plan to use HDMI over cat5e units, I can get them with good looking specs for about 65.00 per set shipped in.

Why do you need cat5e baluns for these lengths? Monoprice has tons of HDMI cables that would span those lengths with no problem.
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post #4 of 26 Old 02-10-2008, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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BDmac,
all 3 tv's share the same channel now so that part is ok and we are good with them sharing the same one. I am also considering component too, so far from what I have seen the picture looks very good, I ran a test RGB cable to the bedroom and the quality looked good, care to share what all equipment you plan to use.




Ace Cannon,
the reason I was looking cat5e was because I could run cat5e where the existing coax was, with HDMI have to make holes large enough for the end to go through, I have a old home which is all tongue & groove walls and every thing will have to go through the flooors in each room, having a basement does make it a bit better
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post #5 of 26 Old 02-10-2008, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bdmac97 View Post

Well a splitter will confine you to sharing the same src on all TVs... Other than that I'd just say good luck w/HDMI handshaking. I'm going component to avoid problems.

I was looking around at your idea, are you going to use a componet splitter amp for signal and then just splt the audio with a Y? I have not seen a splitter amp that does the audio too


My big issue is going to be the easiest way to run with out having to cut HUGE holes
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post #6 of 26 Old 02-10-2008, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by geek4rent View Post

I was looking around at your idea, are you going to use a componet splitter amp for signal and then just splt the audio with a Y? I have not seen a splitter amp that does the audio too


My big issue is going to be the easiest way to run with out having to cut HUGE holes

ooppss I lied I just found one

http://salestores.com/celaav40hipe.html
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post #7 of 26 Old 02-28-2008, 09:45 AM
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Has anyone tried this unit (CE Labs AV 400COMP)? I'm considering it for sending HD dvr feed to far flung areas of the house, 50 and 75ft runs.
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post #8 of 26 Old 02-28-2008, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geek4rent View Post

ooppss I lied I just found one

http://salestores.com/celaav40hipe.html

I am curious as to what kind of feedback you are going to receive from the experts on these forums...in reference to this unit.....for that price I would definitely consider one of these units....just one question...are you able to watch different HD stations or channels in other rooms or do will it only distribute whatever the main display is showing? Hope that makes sense.....

Anyway, man I was considering modulating and sending signal over RF coaxe but for this price this would be a no brainer....(if only I can figure out how to run addtl wires to the bedrooms upstairs...
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post #9 of 26 Old 02-28-2008, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1chael View Post

I am curious as to what kind of feedback you are going to receive from the experts on these forums...in reference to this unit.....for that price I would definitely consider one of these units....just one question...are you able to watch different HD stations or channels in other rooms or do will it only distribute whatever the main display is showing? Hope that makes sense.....

Anyway, man I was considering modulating and sending signal over RF coaxe but for this price this would be a no brainer....(if only I can figure out how to run addtl wires to the bedrooms upstairs...

Well its a one in 4 out splitter. One box in. Whatever that one box is tuned to, thats what is distributed.
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post #10 of 26 Old 02-28-2008, 12:36 PM
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Question to the OP. Where can you get HDMI baluns for $65? Intelix and Gefen are around $500 each.
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post #11 of 26 Old 02-28-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch999 View Post

Well its a one in 4 out splitter. One box in. Whatever that one box is tuned to, thats what is distributed.

Oh, that explains it...thought it was to good to be true...another question if you don't mind...can you get such a device that would distribute different video/audio to various displays instead of sharing with the original?

I know this probably has been asked a million times...I just want to make sure I am on the right track...I assume extron and there were a few others mentioned (cannot think of them off the top of my head) on previous posts/threads that will do what I need....I am sure they are going to be pricey...maybe I will go back to the modulating idea

Thanks,
Michael
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post #12 of 26 Old 02-28-2008, 03:00 PM
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You can modulate standard def, but you can't modulate hidef. (well you can, its just not a consumer product)

You want a matrix switch. For example, an8x8 matrix switch can have 8 sources output to 8 displays. The inputs and outputs are independant. Source one can go to any or all of the
displays, source two etc etc.

Extron, Knox, Autopatch, Neothings, Audio Authority, Key Digital. All make component video matrix switches.
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post #13 of 26 Old 02-28-2008, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch999 View Post

You can modulate standard def, but you can't modulate hidef. (well you can, its just not a consumer product)

You want a matrix switch. For example, an8x8 matrix switch can have 8 sources output to 8 displays. The inputs and outputs are independant. Source one can go to any or all of the
displays, source two etc etc.

Extron, Knox, Autopatch, Neothings, Audio Authority, Key Digital. All make component video matrix switches.

Thanks fletch999-

Just to clear that up...one of these matrix switches would be able to say...tv1 wants to watch hd cable and so does tv2 upstairs...but they do not have to watch the same station...that is what you mean by working independently....same thing with just about any source....?

Oh yeah, the big question...I heard you can sometimes get these on ebay for 200-300 or is that incorrect...and how do you know what model is right for your application or are they all pretty much standard just with more input/outputs?

Thanks,
Michael
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post #14 of 26 Old 02-29-2008, 05:55 AM
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Oh yeah, the big question...I heard you can sometimes get these on ebay for 200-300 or is that incorrect...and how do you know what model is right for your application or are they all pretty much standard just with more input/outputs?

Trail and error sometimes or call the manufacture with the serial #. I have purchased 6 different matrix switches from ebay over the past 2 years, lots of R&D

The Extron crosspoints on ebay have been the most popular items over the past year. They are RGBHV switches and they allow you to switch component HD video (just use the RGB connections). The only thing you need to decide then is how many sources and zones do you want, also do you want analog audio on the same switch.

Make sure the ebay listing has pictures, DO NOT trust the Ebay listing description because its probably just a cut and paste from the general product spec PDF. The pictures will tell you how many zones and sources it has.

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post #15 of 26 Old 02-29-2008, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Trail and error sometimes or call the manufacture with the serial #. I have purchased 6 different matrix switches from ebay over the past 2 years, lots of R&D

The Extron crosspoints on ebay have been the most popular items over the past year. They are RGBHV switches and they allow you to switch component HD video (just use the RGB connections). The only thing you need to decide then is how many sources and zones do you want, also do you want analog audio on the same switch.

Make sure the ebay listing has pictures, DO NOT trust the Ebay listing description because its probably just a cut and paste from the general product spec PDF. The pictures will tell you how many zones and sources it has.

Penngray-

Thanks for the expert feedback...appreciate it..just two more quick questions...I don't quite understand RGB connections...the only thing I relate to RGB is pc monitor cable? I thought we were referencing component switching...maybe I am confused...anyway the only other thing is how you would hook up one of these matrix to an avr for your main tv source (living room with component for video and digital for audio) but then I would need component to all my other sources (3-5 addtl) and just analog audio to those since they are bedroom/office/etc areas? And if you get one that is only 3-5 output now can you add on another unit to this one if you decide to have more displays sharing the feed or do you have to buy another separate unit meant for that many outputs?

Sorry if this is a lot of questioning...I am a newbie at the distributing a/v stuff...but want to become more familiar with it in case it is a possibility in the near future...
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post #16 of 26 Old 02-29-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1chael View Post

Thanks fletch999-

Just to clear that up...one of these matrix switches would be able to say...tv1 wants to watch hd cable and so does tv2 upstairs...but they do not have to watch the same station...that is what you mean by working independently....same thing with just about any source....?

Thanks,
Michael

No, that is not how it works. You would need a separate cable box for each different channel you wish to watch.

ex. You have 8 HDTV's. You don't need 8 different cable boxes, only however many you want to feed different channels. I normally recommend one for each person in house. If you have 4 people living there, I set up the systems so each person has their own box. That way there is no fighting over control of a particular box. Person goes to whatever room they want and selects their box.

Hope this makes sense. Cable boxes can only output one channel at a time.
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post #17 of 26 Old 02-29-2008, 09:13 AM
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No, that is not how it works. You would need a separate cable box for each different channel you wish to watch.

ex. You have 8 HDTV's. You don't need 8 different cable boxes, only however many you want to feed different channels. I normally recommend one for each person in house. If you have 4 people living there, I set up the systems so each person has their own box. That way there is no fighting over control of a particular box. Person goes to whatever room they want and selects their box.

Hope this makes sense. Cable boxes can only output one channel at a time.

Interesting, I was under the impression that a matrix switch would allow multiple users to watch separate stations...but I guess not...Thanks.
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post #18 of 26 Old 02-29-2008, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1chael View Post

Interesting, I was under the impression that a matrix switch would allow multiple users to watch separate stations...but I guess not...Thanks.

No a cable box can only output one channel at a time. You can only watch as many different stations through the house as you have cable boxes.

Comparing a cable box to a dvd may help it make more sense. Just like a dvd can only play one disc at a time, a cable box can only do the same.

In most distributed video systems, I will put in three to four HD cable boxes, 2 DVD players and whatever other various sources they want.

Hope this helps.
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post #19 of 26 Old 03-01-2008, 05:35 AM
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You must have one tuner (Satellite Box) per channel that you want to tune. An 8 x 8 matrix switch would require 8 tuners/Satellite Boxes to be able to watch 8 different shows. SAAudio is giving good advice on one box per person.
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-01-2008, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1chael View Post

Interesting, I was under the impression that a matrix switch would allow multiple users to watch separate stations...but I guess not...Thanks.

Your confusing two issues. A Matrix switch will allow multiple users to watch separate sources, where a cable box is one source. When it is that one source, you can only watch one station as that is all your cable box is capable of spitting out on the component cables. The matrix switch has no abilility beyond what it is fed.

A good example above was comparing your cable box to a DVD player. Even if it is a 400 DVD changer, it is only capable of playing one DVD at a time. The Matrix switch will let any TV in the house 'tune' to that DVD player, but you can't play multiple DVDs at once. You would need multiple players. The same for your TV Cable Box. You can 'tune' to that Cable Box from any TV, but you will see whatever station the Cable Box is currently on. If someone in Bedroom A changes the channel, then all rooms will now see the new channel. So, to have the ability to have multiple channels playing concurrently, you need multiple cable Boxes. Then, 1/2 the house could be watching Cable Box A on Station 100 and the rest of the house is watching Cable Box B on Station 200.


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post #21 of 26 Old 03-01-2008, 06:55 AM
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Your confusing two issues. A Matrix switch will allow multiple users to watch separate sources, where a cable box is one source. When it is that one source, you can only watch one station as that is all your cable box is capable of spitting out on the component cables. The matrix switch has no abilility beyond what it is fed.

A good example above was comparing your cable box to a DVD player. Even if it is a 400 DVD changer, it is only capable of playing one DVD at a time. The Matrix switch will let any TV in the house 'tune' to that DVD player, but you can't play multiple DVDs at once. You would need multiple players. The same for your TV Cable Box. You can 'tune' to that Cable Box from any TV, but you will see whatever station the Cable Box is currently on. If someone in Bedroom A changes the channel, then all rooms will now see the new channel. So, to have the ability to have multiple channels playing concurrently, you need multiple cable Boxes. Then, 1/2 the house could be watching Cable Box A on Station 100 and the rest of the house is watching Cable Box B on Station 200.

That clears it up....I got it now...great explanation by everyone...sorry for the stupid newbie questions
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-01-2008, 07:11 AM
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I install home audio/video for a living and 75 ft. with hdmi is a long run but I have had some
success. It's a 50/50 thing
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post #23 of 26 Old 03-13-2008, 09:21 AM
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Question on best practices in controlling the matrix switches and the channels.... So, to use the example that each child has their own cable box and can watch it in any room... I am assuming you have the control system, which ever kind you have for your house, set up in such a way that the child can quickley route the cable box to any room and then control it to change channels... So, do you do your zones around people rather than rooms... Just curious of the logistics on the set up...
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post #24 of 26 Old 03-13-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:


So, do you do your zones around people rather than rooms... Just curious of the logistics on the set up...

That is a good question.

I dont believe a cable box is need per person in the house, like in the business world where I design systems around "concurrent" usage. I believe the home can be designed the same way. (but that is just my opinion)

How many times does someone have a person watching a different channel in a different room at once?

maybe a better question would be

NORMALLY how many different channels are on in the house at one time (and being watched)?

That is the number that we can use to decide how many cable boxes are needed. If you have 5 people in the house but only 3 different channels are ever one then 3 boxes are needed and you can share them to all rooms.

Now you will ask what about if 3 boxes are in use and I want to watch another TV channel at the same time....hmmmm....DVR? Record it and watch later. 4 different programs at once...no one really watching the same show? No DVD to watch instead or music to listen too. What about direct cable into the TV for "basic" cable?

It sounds like a compromise and if it does then get the extra boxes but then you really are not sharing sources.

There is a trade off and sometimes people will want a cable box per person instead of trying to share resources better.

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post #25 of 26 Old 03-13-2008, 11:43 AM
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The question of how many cable boxes is more, for me, a question of DVRs. HOw many different DVRs are needed. Typically, cable DVRs are very limited in storage, especially for HD content. Plus, mom and dad will record many programs that are innappropriate for kids.

So, I try to design around that need. One for Dad, one for Mom, one for the kids, maybe one spare. That way, DVR space for Mom and Dad isn;t wasted with 100 episodes of Sesame street or, my favorite, Thomas the Tank Engine.
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post #26 of 26 Old 03-13-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch999 View Post

....or, my favorite, Thomas the Tank Engine.

You too, huh...Thank god for Sprout Channel on Demand, which runs Thomas episodes. Our 3 year old is as addicted to Thomas as I am to HA


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