Device to flip/rotate a video signal? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 05-19-2008, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know of a device that can rotate a video signal (preferably hdmi or dvi) 180 degrees so the source can be watched upside down?

I've read that some Sharp TVs have a "picture flip" control. That's the exact function I'm looking for, but I'll be trying to do this with a Sony LCD TV.

The setup that I'm envisioning would require the TV to operate both right side up and upside down. I'm hoping to have a TV placed above a wide doorway (two pocket doors that are always open). The TV could be lowered into the doorway for better viewing. It could also be flipped upside down so it could be watched in the adjoining room. I originally wanted to have the TV rotate along the vertical axis, but the designs in my head seemed easier and cooler if it flipped on the horizontal axis.

Thanks,

Todd
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post #2 of 32 Old 05-19-2008, 04:36 PM
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There are a few extremely expensive standalone machines which can do this. Other than that running through a (HT)PC would be your best shot.
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post #3 of 32 Old 05-19-2008, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, that's what I was worried about. If cost wasn't an issue, I'd buy another TV. I could use a PC, but then I think I'm limiting myself to component video (unless dvi/hdmi capture or pass through cards are affordable and HDCP wouldn't be an issue).

Todd
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post #4 of 32 Old 06-18-2008, 09:23 PM
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I was looking for something like that too. All I want to do is flip the image horizontally, but I'd only need it for component or composite video, nothing fancy. I was hoping it'd be easy to build a circuit that did something like that.

Do you happen to have links to those machines you're talking about? Or anything that could do it for at least composite video?

Thanks!
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post #5 of 32 Old 06-19-2008, 12:31 AM
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The sad part about it is that every videoprocessor out there could easily do it, if the manufacturers would just decide to include the feature. Man, even the cheapest beamers will do it for vertical & horizontal 180° rotation...

You can google for Aurora on the expensive side. On the cheap side there's a video input card for the PC (any $30 card) and you can use VLC to process the image in realtime incl. one-click rotation and mirroring.
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post #6 of 32 Old 06-19-2008, 08:57 AM
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Lower on shelf and rotate on lazy susan type of thing

Dan
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post #7 of 32 Old 06-19-2008, 08:35 PM
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Yeah I was thinking about the video card route.
Unfortunately I've never gotten VLC to work with my card.

I was hoping I could use some code samples online or the source to vdub to accomplish what I want.

And holy crap those Aurora things are expensive. I was thinking in the hundreds of dollar range...not many thousands.

The DIDO Jr looks damn near perfect for what I want...except for the price, lol.
Why can't someone just sell the circuit to freakin flip video!!!

Do you know if any LCD TV's offer a horizontal flip option.

I know the newer Bravia's can do side by side pictures, which is a feature I wanted, but I really need to be able to flip the input.

Thanks for the leads on the Aurora's. That was neat to read about.
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post #8 of 32 Old 07-01-2008, 01:47 PM
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As others had said...super expensive to do. You wouldn't think though...probably a piece of cake to do. I suppose there isn't much interest overall though to actually implement it.
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post #9 of 32 Old 07-01-2008, 04:37 PM
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Yeah, its a shame. I was talking to a guy at work that used to work at a TV station years ago and he seemed to think it wouldn't be that hard. He was like we just had a switch that would do that.

I did find a slightly cheaper option though ($600-$700)...from TV One.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...rter_Down.html

They have an up-conveter and a down-converter that have the mirroring capability. I'm thinking one of those might work. I'm just not sure what would happen if I fed it a non NTSC resolution. The resolution is like 336x240 or something.
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post #10 of 32 Old 07-02-2008, 11:29 AM
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Not sure. If you try one please give us feedback.
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post #11 of 32 Old 07-02-2008, 02:17 PM
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The Vantage-HD2 will do this! If you set the output to Projector then you can flip the image horizontally and/or vertically to allow for the projector being in front/behind the screen or inverted. Of course you also get the excellent de-interlacing and top notch scaling of the Realta T2 processor.

http://www.calibreuk.com/Vantagehd2.php
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post #12 of 32 Old 07-02-2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Not sure. If you try one please give us feedback.

I might be able to swing the cost of the TV One unit. I'll be sure to post back if I get it. I figure I'd email the company first to make sure it can take the inputs I want and do what I need it to do.

Zax, That unit looks pretty neat, but it's a bit on the expensive side for me.

I'm just glad to know there's lots of options out there. It's really heard to figure out what to even search for.
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post #13 of 32 Old 07-03-2008, 08:47 AM
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{I also sell the TVOne units here in the UK, the C2-100 will do mirroring but it is a down convertor for high res and HD signals to SD (NTSC or PAL) via composite or s-video outputs only, not an up convertor to 720 or 1080 and no HDMI or DVI at all. The C2-200 will do what you need but it doesn't have HDMI or DVI outputs, only RGBHV/RGBs/RGsB and YPbPr all via a 15 way "D". I can email you the full specification and manual if you pm me.

If you want HDMI/DVI in and HDMI/DVI out and mirroring then there are few cheap choices. The TVOne 1T-AVPC-HDMI has the HDMI/DVI in/out but no mirroring.}

Edit: Had a look through the entire TVOne line(s), nothing to do exactly what you want, and those that are closest (C2-200) don't have HDMI/DVI output OR user selectable output resolutions to let you make a 1:1 pixel mapped output.

Edit2: D'OH! Sorry buaku, I just spotted you aren't the OP so you don't need HDMI/DVI - give the 1T-C2-200 a try in that case but I am sure it won't like non-standard resolutions!!
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post #14 of 32 Old 07-03-2008, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buaku View Post

I might be able to swing the cost of the TV One unit. I'll be sure to post back if I get it. I figure I'd email the company first to make sure it can take the inputs I want and do what I need it to do.

Zax, That unit looks pretty neat, but it's a bit on the expensive side for me.

I'm just glad to know there's lots of options out there. It's really heard to figure out what to even search for.

No problem. Keep us posted.
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post #15 of 32 Old 07-20-2008, 11:55 AM
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Hrmm I guess I never subscribed to this thread, so I didn't know anyone responded!
I emailed the TV One people and they said it wouldn't support the resolutions I wanted.

So then I decided to pursue the expensive path....the DIDO Jr from Aurora Multimedia! They were responding quickly to my questions at first and now it's been about a week since I wrote my last email. I'm still waiting for a response.

It sounds like it could do it. They say you can set up custom resolutions, but I want to make damn sure it will work because that it one expensive piece of hardware!! If they can make me think it would really work I might have to think really hard about getting one. I'll just have to find a place with a really good return policy because that thing would have one hell of a restocking fee I bet.
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post #16 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 04:55 PM
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It appears someone may have tried to make one in the past, like 7 years ago.
http://marcusgun.awardspace.com/newvidproc.html
If only I knew something about programming microcontrollers...
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post #17 of 32 Old 08-28-2008, 02:03 AM
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There's a Silicon Optix Image Anyplace in the classified ads section ($2100 instead of $2500 retail). It will do all kinds of rotation and flipping. Very nice unit, but too expensive for me to buy it just to experiment around a little bit.
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post #18 of 32 Old 09-01-2008, 10:22 PM
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Thanks for the info!
That thing looks pretty nifty. It's always nice to see other options out there.
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post #19 of 32 Old 01-25-2009, 09:22 PM
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Any advances in this field?
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post #20 of 32 Old 01-26-2009, 03:27 AM
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I've recently done this for SD-based content. You can read about it here:
http://yokotate.hazard-city.de/

Using a HDMI input card like the BlackMagic Intensity together with the Pivot function of your graphics card, the very same thing should be doable for 720p and 1080i content. I've just sent an email to a friend to ask if Fullscreen desktop preview is available for the Blackmagic cards.
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post #21 of 32 Old 01-27-2009, 10:21 PM
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I'd thought about doing the same sort of thing using VLC to flip the video.
It has the ability to open up a capture device and it has bunch of filters to flip or rotate the video. I'm just not sure if theres a way to apply those filters to a live video stream as opposed to just playing some video clip.

This machine has an older hauppage cap card. It was a pain to get VLC to open it, and afterwards I think my machine freaked out. Maybe it was bad drivers or something.

I've never tried VLC with my Intensity. I'd imagine it could use it and then you could go fullscreen after that.

I've also thought about grabbing the source code for those programs and seeing if I could figure it out. I searched once for code samples on flipping video signals, but I wasn't finding too much that made it clear to me.

You got some neat info on your page Fudoh. That was fun to look through!
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post #22 of 32 Old 01-28-2009, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
I've never tried VLC with my Intensity. I'd imagine it could use it and then you could go fullscreen after that.

works fine. I had friend try it yesterday. VLC can also flip the picture.
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post #23 of 32 Old 01-28-2009, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

works fine. I had friend try it yesterday. VLC can also flip the picture.

That's good to hear! Can it flip the live image?
I forget if I was able to find that feature, or maybe I needed to use a different video renderer or something.

I'll have to find time to mess with that this weekend.
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post #24 of 32 Old 01-29-2009, 04:31 AM
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Quote:


Can it flip the live image?
I forget if I was able to find that feature, or maybe I needed to use a different video renderer or something.

It's hidden somewhere in the advanced features. They also move around all the options a lot when changing from a version to another.
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post #25 of 32 Old 03-07-2009, 09:26 AM
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I found where to apply the transformation in the filters section.
It looks like there are two places to apply filters on the filter screen.

Under filters theres a Video filter module and a Video output filter module. I needed to check the transformation box under the video output filter module. That allowed me to flip the screen. I tried this with a regular no frills capture card in that machine.

I cannot figure out how to get VLC to stream from the Intensity. I either get no picture, or VLC complains that the decklink device doesn't support the options I'm passing to it. At one point it was able to get sound out of the Intensity.

When you set up your Intensity with VLC was it an NTSC/PAL signal or was it something HD?
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post #26 of 32 Old 03-09-2009, 11:01 PM
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Well I got the card to work with VLC. Turns out I had some deinterlacing filter turned on and it didn't like that. I turned off all filters and I got a picture in VLC.
Also MPC was able to open the NTSC signal with no problem.

Neither program appears to play nice with an HD signal though. I have to use Vdub or the supplied program to see those. That's not a big deal now, but it'd be nice to get it working just for the sake of completeness.
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post #27 of 32 Old 03-10-2009, 04:13 AM
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I'm pretty sure we tried with a HD-SDI signal, but I have to confirm. What happens in VLC when you choose a HD source ?
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post #28 of 32 Old 03-13-2009, 03:48 PM
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I think I either got a black screen or I got some color, but it looks like a blurred mess. I think the VLC log said the screen size was something like 1280x30 or something like that. I had the card set for 720p.

Unfortunately the Intensity doesn't like the output from my arcade board. According to some poking around online the board puts out 60Hz exactly, so maybe that's too out of spec for it on the NTSC side.
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post #29 of 32 Old 03-13-2009, 06:04 PM
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Buy A Lumagen XD,,,,,,, your done
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post #30 of 32 Old 03-24-2009, 10:54 PM
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According to Lumagen support their devices don't flip signals like that.
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