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post #301 of 1410 Old 11-21-2009, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

New firmware update - game mode! YES!

XD - Production 111509
XE - Production 110109
XS - Production 111509

Dave -

I think you have a typo for XE -- should be 111509

Thanks for the updates and testing...

Mike
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post #302 of 1410 Old 11-21-2009, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

And I don't speak for the majority of PS2 games, I speak for the majority of MY PS2 collection.

Fair enough - so I stand by my statement; the indiscriminate 480i -> 240p might be okay with you, but at first sight I'd say it's far from ideal.
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post #303 of 1410 Old 11-21-2009, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Dave -

I think you have a typo for XE -- should be 111509

Thanks for the updates and testing...

Mike

Good catch! I fixed it... the link was correct though
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post #304 of 1410 Old 11-22-2009, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

As much as I'd like one of those high end toys myself - come on. You're going to get amazing results with an i1 or C5. And unless you do calibrations day in, day out, I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference in the end between calibrations done by different meters. You know, diminishing returns and all that.

Joe, I went from a d2lt to a c5 myself, and it's a huge improvement. The picture out of my rs1 looks nothing short of spectacular. If you can wrap your head around the XD's calibration workflow, there's no reason that your display won't look equally as good. The bonus is you can do regular touch ups yourself. It's your choice really; if you pay someone with a really expensive meter, the results are going to be theoretically better; theoretically being the operative keyword here. Meaning they may or may not be better, and you may or may not see the difference.

Believe what you like, but if the i1-Pro and Chroma 5 were good enough, nobody would use more expensive instruments.

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post #305 of 1410 Old 11-22-2009, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Believe what you like, but if the i1-Pro and Chroma 5 were good enough, nobody would use more expensive instruments.

I'm sure they're not perfect instruments. What I'm saying is that they're more than good enough for the average Radiance DIY-er. I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference. Maybe you would, but most of us wouldn't.
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post #306 of 1410 Old 11-22-2009, 11:15 AM
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I've gotten outstanding results using my i1 Pro. I simply could not justify using anything more expensive for my cinema.

"Worth waiting for"
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post #307 of 1410 Old 11-23-2009, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

I've gotten outstanding results using my i1 Pro. I simply could not justify using anything more expensive for my cinema.

Ditto with my c5.
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post #308 of 1410 Old 11-23-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

I'm sure they're not perfect instruments. What I'm saying is that they're more than good enough for the average Radiance DIY-er. I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference. Maybe you would, but most of us wouldn't.

The whole point of the Radiance is to make images just about "perfect" in regards to grayscale, gamma, and color. To spend $4000-$6000 on a Radiance and not use an instrument "worthy" of the Radiance's performance capabilities seems... odd. If you're on a severe budget... you do what you can. But most people willing to shell out the cost of a Radiance aren't exactly scraping the bottom of the barrel and paying for professional calibration employing an instrument that's equal to the Radiance's performance/adjustment capabilities is really the whole point of the Radiance. Part of the "Radiance experience" is KNOWING you can't make the picture any better -- it takes a meter of very high performance capabilities to achieve that level of confidence (mostly for color, though, the C5 and i1Pro are ok for grayscale).

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post #309 of 1410 Old 11-23-2009, 04:25 PM
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I really like all of the FW updates for new features and bug fixes.
I was wondering when the Radiance manuals get updated to help figure out how to use all of this new stuff.

The online manual is from 072009.

Mike
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post #310 of 1410 Old 11-23-2009, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Part of the "Radiance experience" is KNOWING you can't make the picture any better

No. I couldn't disagree more - on several levels.

First, I don't want a 'Radiance experience'. I want to forget about the equipment and just enjoy my shows and movies. The Radiance happens to be in the chain and helps me control two independent displays somewhat seamlessly, and also helps me tune the picture. Great! But - it's in a closet, out of mind and out of sight.

Second - you seem to imply that the idea that the picture is the best it can be, the psychological certainty of it if you will, is all that matters. I do believe that's what you're saying, because you didn't dispute that a high-end meter wouldn't bring dramatic calibration improvements over a c5 or i1pro, just incremental at best - not to mention whether those improvements would be visible at all. But hey, you used a $10k probe so it's gotta be better right? Well, if that helps some people sleep at night - good for them. I can't afford that kind of sleep problems.

I must admit I'm a bit peeved by the way you talk about the i1pro or c5, dismissing them out of the gate as if they would yield terrible calibration results. Well, they don't. Not even close.

I won't even go into the "if you spent 4 to $6k on a radiance what's another 10 for the meter" argument. Please.
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post #311 of 1410 Old 11-23-2009, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

I really like all of the FW updates for new features and bug fixes.
I was wondering when the Radiance manuals get updated to help figure out how to use all of this new stuff.

The online manual is from 072009.

Mike

Well if you ask nicely I'm sure they'll get to it Is there anything in particular you're looking for? In the meantime, the update page (linked in the first post) is your best resource, unfortunately.
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post #312 of 1410 Old 11-23-2009, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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New firmware update - the output select bugfix is one I reported... yesterday! Don't you love Lumagen?

XD - Production 111609
XE - Production 111609
XS - Production 111609

Quote:
Production 111609- Improved analog component inputs for some sources that had a slight flicker. Bugfix for setting output1 video off for all mems and all resolutions which would turn off video on output 2 instead.

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post #313 of 1410 Old 11-24-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

I really like all of the FW updates for new features and bug fixes.
I was wondering when the Radiance manuals get updated to help figure out how to use all of this new stuff.

The online manual is from 072009.

Mike

We are working on an update. Should have soemthin on our website in the next week or so.

Jim Peterson
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post #314 of 1410 Old 11-24-2009, 02:14 PM
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A question asked earlier was: Does Game mode bypass the Gennum (now Sigma) GF9450?

Didn't see an answer so here it is:

Yes, the new Radiance game mode does bypass the GF9450. We choose this to minimize latency. So, the GF9450 enhancements are not available in game mode.

Note: Game mode is not intended for (EDIT) interlaced video program material, such as TV shows. You can, of course, use game mode for games with interlaced output modes. Since the GF9450's diagonal deinterlacing is not available in game mode, using the Auto or Video-only deinterlacing mode for interlaced TV program material will provide better results.

Note: Turning on Genlock will minimize the total latency (and provide a constant latency) since the input and output always have the same input-to-output frame phase relationship. Normal Genlock restart delay applies. So if you have a game that switches between 480i and 240p you might want to leave genlock off to avoid the few second time of video mute needed to relock the genlock during the input resolution switch.

Jim Peterson
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post #315 of 1410 Old 11-24-2009, 02:47 PM
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The Film mode also bypasses the Genum, so does that reduce latency over the auto/video modes? Is the latency similar to game mode?
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post #316 of 1410 Old 11-24-2009, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

Well if you ask nicely I'm sure they'll get to it Is there anything in particular you're looking for? In the meantime, the update page (linked in the first post) is your best resource, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post

We are working on an update. Should have soemthin on our website in the next week or so.

Thanks.
Lot's of great updates since the manual was last updated.
It would be just good to see a little more explicit "manual-like" details to help us Radiance newbies.

Mike
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post #317 of 1410 Old 11-24-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

No. I couldn't disagree more - on several levels.

First, I don't want a 'Radiance experience'. I want to forget about the equipment and just enjoy my shows and movies. The Radiance happens to be in the chain and helps me control two independent displays somewhat seamlessly, and also helps me tune the picture. Great! But - it's in a closet, out of mind and out of sight.

Second - you seem to imply that the idea that the picture is the best it can be, the psychological certainty of it if you will, is all that matters. I do believe that's what you're saying, because you didn't dispute that a high-end meter wouldn't bring dramatic calibration improvements over a c5 or i1pro, just incremental at best - not to mention whether those improvements would be visible at all. But hey, you used a $10k probe so it's gotta be better right? Well, if that helps some people sleep at night - good for them. I can't afford that kind of sleep problems.

I must admit I'm a bit peeved by the way you talk about the i1pro or c5, dismissing them out of the gate as if they would yield terrible calibration results. Well, they don't. Not even close.

I won't even go into the "if you spent 4 to $6k on a radiance what's another 10 for the meter" argument. Please.

I never made an arguement that $4-$6K on a Radiance justifies $10K on a meter... you did that all by yourself. I was suggesting that paying a calibrator with a $10K+ meter to make sure things are "right" (and that implied that you could then measure with your meter and note any "offsets" so you can re-tune in the future). Your own argument seems... odd at best. If you weren't into having the best possible picture (so you could forget about it) you wouldn't HAVE a Radiance - which puts you squarely in my "Radiance experience" definition whether you like it or not.

Once again, the whole point of the Radiance is to make the picture as perfect as it can be... so you CAN forget about all the tech and enjoy the picture. Being able to forget about all the tech is the whole point of "the Radiance experience". The C5 and i1Pro both have limitations - different limitations for each. And those limitations are primarily in the accuracy of color measurements - the limitations are well documented and don't need any further characterization by me. I never characterized either the C5 or i1Pro as providing terrible results - you did that yourself. My "characterization" merely implied that they would not provide the same result as a meter with good color measurement capabilities (and those are never inexpensive meters). And that also means that the Radiance is capable of providing better results if it is used with a meter that is as good/accurate as the Radiance can be. There isn't anything heretical or hateful in that statement - it is merely accurate.

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post #318 of 1410 Old 11-24-2009, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatjulio View Post

The Film mode also bypasses the Genum, so does that reduce latency over the auto/video modes? Is the latency similar to game mode?

For Film-only mode, we need to do cadence detection. The latency for film-only mode is effectively the same as "Auto" and "Video-only" modes.

So, game mode has a shorter latency than any of these other modes.

Jim Peterson
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post #319 of 1410 Old 11-25-2009, 11:16 AM
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i have been following this thread for a while, it seems like there are very regular firmware updates for the XD and the XE, which is fantastic.
however do the firmware updates wipe the settings and are there any firmware updates that once the update is done i would have to calibrate again?

my ideal would be to have the radiance, hire a calibrator and then leave it except for the annual or so touch up, however i like the idea of constant bug fixes and improvements, can i have both, a set-it-and-forget-it with constant updates?
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post #320 of 1410 Old 11-25-2009, 11:24 AM
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The settings are almost always preserved on applying new firmware. Lumagen would let us know if they weren't. To be honest, I think the development cycle has reached the point where preserving settings is mandatory.

"Worth waiting for"
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post #321 of 1410 Old 11-25-2009, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savefarris View Post

however do the firmware updates wipe the settings and are there any firmware updates that once the update is done i would have to calibrate again?

No and no.

Quote:


my ideal would be to have the radiance, hire a calibrator and then leave it except for the annual or so touch up, however i like the idea of constant bug fixes and improvements, can i have both, a set-it-and-forget-it with constant updates?

Pretty much. Sometimes you'll want to look at the new settings that are provided though, a recent example would be video-only deinterlacing. But none of your old settings will change.
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post #322 of 1410 Old 11-25-2009, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

The settings are almost always preserved on applying new firmware. Lumagen would let us know if they weren't. To be honest, I think the development cycle has reached the point where preserving settings is mandatory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

No and no.



Pretty much. Sometimes you'll want to look at the new settings that are provided though, a recent example would be video-only deinterlacing. But none of your old settings will change.

Great, thank you guys both very much!
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post #323 of 1410 Old 12-05-2009, 06:26 PM
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the firmware question was my last sticking point. I went ahead and ordered a radianceXS from sencore.
i previously had a dvdo edge, i got my radiance this week and have been going through the set-up. havent gotten through nearly all the settings yet, but i am very impressed so far, both with the product and the customer service from Jim at Lumagen and from everyone I have spoken with at Sencore.

to me it is a noticeable upgrade (at the price it should be)
thanks everyone for their help
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post #324 of 1410 Old 12-14-2009, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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New firmware update. Just loaded it up myself...

XD - Production 120509
XE - Production 120509
XS - Production 120509

Quote:


Production 120509
* Pip swap command is completed (audio is swapped)--the screen now blanks for a couple seconds when swapping.
* Color gamut calibration test patterns (under the 'Color Gamut:By color' command) can now be 75 or 100 IRE. Couple other usage improvements.
* Some shorter timeouts added for the Pip timeout option
* Fix for a horizontal tear with new game mode on+genlock+480p
* Fix for selecting inputs 10,11 on new input selection menu
* Fix for incorrect display of film/video deinterlacing mode on status screen (was broken recently when new game mode was added)
* Fix for not deactivating Pip mode after Pip has timed out. (so a number press on the remote was still interpreted as a pip source after the pip had timed out)
* Noise improvement on SD (240p too) analog inputs--completely eliminated some flickering seen on dark screens using a PS2.
* Fix for incorrect vertical cropping with game mode turned on with progressive sources (seen as scaling differences turning game mode on/off).
* Support added for 240/288p component sources (such as PS2's). Recommend enabling game mode for these sources.
* Added another condition to the output triggers (if output aspect > 2.00)

Of course the PiP and trigger stuff does not apply to the XS.
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post #325 of 1410 Old 12-14-2009, 11:37 PM
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Quote:


Production 120509
* Fix for a horizontal tear with new game mode on+genlock+480p
* Noise improvement on SD (240p too) analog inputs--completely eliminated some flickering seen on dark screens using a PS2.
* Fix for incorrect vertical cropping with game mode turned on with progressive sources (seen as scaling differences turning game mode on/off).
* Support added for 240/288p component sources (such as PS2's). Recommend enabling game mode for these sources.

I am watching this with great interest...
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post #326 of 1410 Old 01-09-2010, 03:56 PM
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Hi,the chip Gennum 9450 support in the future 4k resolution??
IF no,it's possibile an hardware upgrade?
Thanks
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post #327 of 1410 Old 01-09-2010, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steven9x7 View Post

Hi,the chip Gennum 9450 support in the future 4k resolution??

No.

Quote:


IF no,it's possibile an hardware upgrade?
Thanks

Probably not since the current hdmi specs do not support 4k either to my knowledge, and the fpga chip wouldn't be powerful enough. So you'd need an entire new chain of components. Just an educated guess though.
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post #328 of 1410 Old 01-09-2010, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

Probably not since the current hdmi specs do not support 4k either to my knowledge, and the fpga chip wouldn't be powerful enough. So you'd need an entire new chain of components. Just an educated guess though.

The current HDMI specs (v1.4) do indeed include 4k resolutions:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/4K.aspx

Given what Lumagen has hinted at in the past, it would not make sense to include 4K support on the Radiance XE....although it may make sense on an XE PRO with HD-SDI (as well).

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post #329 of 1410 Old 01-09-2010, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshA View Post

The current HDMI specs (v1.4) do indeed include 4k resolutions:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/4K.aspx

Given what Lumagen has hinted at in the past, it would not make sense to include 4K support on the Radiance XE....although it may make sense on an XE PRO with HD-SDI (as well).

I stand corrected - but sorry, I don't see it happening. As I said above, it's not just the hdmi that would need updating, it's the whole device - every single link in the chain. Hence your 'update' would be an entirely new machine.

Is 4k on the horizon? I haven't really been following stuff out of CES. I don't really see it happening though. As far as I'm concerned, 1080p is plenty, and I'm not even particularly interested in 3D. In any case, I think this question is a tiny bit premature .
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post #330 of 1410 Old 01-10-2010, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

As I said above, it's not just the hdmi that would need updating, it's the whole device - every single link in the chain. Hence your 'update' would be an entirely new machine.

This is why I suggested that it would make sense on a Radiance XE PRO, and not an XE/XD. I also believe, as your suggestions prove, that a 1080p customer and 4K customer are completely different customers. I am willing to bet that a very small percentage of 4K customers will ever post on a forum, as their systems where spec'd/installed by a high-end installer. Another thing to consider is 4K content, but that is where No Ring scaling would be incredibly beneficial with all the existing content.

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