Official RadianceXD support thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 1407 Old 01-11-2010, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

I stand corrected - but sorry, I don't see it happening. As I said above, it's not just the hdmi that would need updating, it's the whole device - every single link in the chain. Hence your 'update' would be an entirely new machine.

Is 4k on the horizon? I haven't really been following stuff out of CES. I don't really see it happening though. As far as I'm concerned, 1080p is plenty, and I'm not even particularly interested in 3D. In any case, I think this question is a tiny bit premature .

4K projectors are available but expensive.
There isn't a ready source of much 4K program material.

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post #332 of 1407 Old 01-11-2010, 06:29 AM
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It would not surprise me if 4k became more mainstream in the next 2-3 years. Even if sources are not 4k. Epson has announced 4k chips, and they are not exactly boutique or super-high-end, and there was also something mentioned in the >$3000 forum about JVC coming out with 4k at enthusiast prices in the next year. I personally don't care much about 4k, but if I were a maker of anything in the video chain (especially VP), I certainly would be preparing for it.
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post #333 of 1407 Old 01-14-2010, 01:08 AM
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Meridian's 810 4k projection system looks superb with 1080p material. I've not seen it on a *huge* screen though.

"Worth waiting for"
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post #334 of 1407 Old 01-14-2010, 10:17 AM
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I think there is a JVC 4K projector for around $175K.

I'm not too concerned about missing out on 4K -- or 3D for that matter, but I agree that it would be interesting to hear Lumagen speculation on these trendy hot topics.

Mike


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post #335 of 1407 Old 01-16-2010, 12:51 PM
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Hi there......someone have see the the differences between a Pioneer KRP ISF calibrated and a KRP ISF calibrated + RadianceXD? any comment?
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post #336 of 1407 Old 01-17-2010, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven9x7 View Post

Hi there......someone have see the the differences between a Pioneer KRP ISF calibrated and a KRP ISF calibrated + RadianceXD? any comment?

I've combined an Elite TV with an XD, essentially the same thing. It was the best video image I've ever seen - of any kind, including front projection.

On the other hand, it wasn't $4000+ better than the Elite by itself.

Getting the primaries and complimentaries accurate in all 3 dimensions is NOT as big of a deal as getting the grayscale right. That is if the errors are on the order of the Elite/KRP's in regards to xy and luminance. If there are large xy or luminance errors, getting rid of them is a pretty big deal.

Being able to get gamma right at 2.3-2.35 with the Radiance was "perfect" shadows and highlights still looked natural but the midrange was just dark enough to show that unmistakable 3-D look you get when the gamma is "right". But still... not a $4000+ difference over the Elite on its own.

Combining a Kuro like this with a Radiance is something I'd do if I won 10-figures in the lottery, but not something I do if I was on any kind of budget at all.

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post #337 of 1407 Old 01-17-2010, 03:03 AM
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Thanks....but before the radiance ,the KURO was ISF calibrated or not?
Id'like to know the difference between kuro isf and kuro isf with radiance
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post #338 of 1407 Old 01-17-2010, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

I've combined an Elite TV with an XD, essentially the same thing. It was the best video image I've ever seen - of any kind, including front projection.

On the other hand, it wasn't $4000+ better than the Elite by itself.

Getting the primaries and complimentaries accurate in all 3 dimensions is NOT as big of a deal as getting the grayscale right. That is if the errors are on the order of the Elite/KRP's in regards to xy and luminance. If there are large xy or luminance errors, getting rid of them is a pretty big deal.

Being able to get gamma right at 2.3-2.35 with the Radiance was "perfect" shadows and highlights still looked natural but the midrange was just dark enough to show that unmistakable 3-D look you get when the gamma is "right". But still... not a $4000+ difference over the Elite on its own.

Combining a Kuro like this with a Radiance is something I'd do if I won 10-figures in the lottery, but not something I do if I was on any kind of budget at all.

One thing to keep in mind when considering the $4k is that the owner can use it on their next "Kuro". Most of us who are willing to get an XD/XE (I have an XD) upgrade our displays frequently.
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post #339 of 1407 Old 01-18-2010, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven9x7 View Post

Thanks....but before the radiance ,the KURO was ISF calibrated or not?
Id'like to know the difference between kuro isf and kuro isf with radiance


Yes, the Kuro was calibrated first - the whole purpose of the experiment was to see what the Radiance would do for a TV that was already as good as it could be. I could see the difference. I had the luxury of using 2 inputs to the Kuro, one with the Radiance video, one that bypassed the Radiance, but was identical to the input to the Radiance. I spent quite a bit of time watching the beginning of a scene, switching inputs and backing up to the beginning of the same scene again to detect differences. I'd give the Elite Kuro about a 9.6 for video image quality on it's own. Add the Radiance and you're up to 9.8 (assuming we are talking about BD image quality). The Radiance was also a bit better at converting DVD to 1080p than the Kuro - though Kuros have really good DVD upconversion as TVs go. Of course an Oppo BD-83 is just as good, to my eyes, at upconverting DVD as a Radiance.

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post #340 of 1407 Old 01-18-2010, 01:42 PM
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Thanks Doug....a very little difference in BR,as I thought
How much improvement in % for the SAT?
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post #341 of 1407 Old 01-19-2010, 01:23 AM
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Satellite and cable are a lost cause. I don't pay much attention to them. Every program is different, every channel is different. You calibrate the TV and you get what you get for cable or satellite. If you try to make one channel look better, 20 more will look worse. And what looks "perfect" now won't look perfect at all an hour or two later. It's the nature of the beast. Last night I saw a slow-rolling horizontal band of discoloration on a satellite channel - just like the old analog days. It would have been interesting to find out where something like that originates in an all-digital distribution system.

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post #342 of 1407 Old 01-19-2010, 04:08 AM
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OK and for the BR,the difference with Radiance was more sharpness,color,definition or what?
Thanks
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post #343 of 1407 Old 01-20-2010, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven9x7 View Post

OK and for the BR,the difference with Radiance was more sharpness,color,definition or what?
Thanks

The Radiance allows tuning out any residual grayscale errors (pretty minor though - the panel tracks very flat from step to step), the main improvement I got was 30% and lower - but these are hard to see in moving content because of the low luminance levels. You almost have to train yourself to see the difference.

Residual color errors are tuned out as well - and there are some of those with the Kuro monitors and Elites... mostly in luminance. So you will tend to see the right SHADE of a given color, but it will tend to be too dark or too light - the Radiance removes that also. Again, hard to see in moving images unless you have some time to train yourself to find it.

Finally, the Radiance allows you to get gamma set to 2.3-2.35 which, to my eyes, is the sweet spot for Kuro panels. It gives the most dimensional appearance to images without shadows seeming unatural or highlights seeming too dim (from a higher gamma) or for the picture to seem dimensionally flat (from a lower numeric gamma). The settings available in the Kuros tend to jump over the 2.3-2.35 range so the Radiance can get you right into the sweet spot. But again, unless you have trained yourself to see the difference between 2.25 and 2.3, it could be pretty hard to detect the difference.

There is absolutely no difference in sharpness from any 1080 source - it's a digital image with fixed pixels. Unless the softness is encoded on the disc (by intentional soft focus or whatever) you shouldn't see any difference/improvement (from using a Radiance) for good quality sources in regard to image sharpness.

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post #344 of 1407 Old 01-21-2010, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

The Radiance allows tuning out any residual grayscale errors (pretty minor though - the panel tracks very flat from step to step), the main improvement I got was 30% and lower - but these are hard to see in moving content because of the low luminance levels. You almost have to train yourself to see the difference.

Residual color errors are tuned out as well - and there are some of those with the Kuro monitors and Elites... mostly in luminance. So you will tend to see the right SHADE of a given color, but it will tend to be too dark or too light - the Radiance removes that also. Again, hard to see in moving images unless you have some time to train yourself to find it.

Finally, the Radiance allows you to get gamma set to 2.3-2.35 which, to my eyes, is the sweet spot for Kuro panels. It gives the most dimensional appearance to images without shadows seeming unatural or highlights seeming too dim (from a higher gamma) or for the picture to seem dimensionally flat (from a lower numeric gamma). The settings available in the Kuros tend to jump over the 2.3-2.35 range so the Radiance can get you right into the sweet spot. But again, unless you have trained yourself to see the difference between 2.25 and 2.3, it could be pretty hard to detect the difference.

There is absolutely no difference in sharpness from any 1080 source - it's a digital image with fixed pixels. Unless the softness is encoded on the disc (by intentional soft focus or whatever) you shouldn't see any difference/improvement (from using a Radiance) for good quality sources in regard to image sharpness.

I have to strongly disagree with your comments on sharpness. IMO, one of the best features of the XD is the ability to get rid of that "soft movie like" appearance on HD material as well as good quality SD. I like "crispness" in my PQ regardless of the directors intent. The settings under enhancement are very useful in adding crispness without visable edge enhancement. The recently activated Gennum (sp?) feature for "sharpening" deinterlaced sources particularily 1080i HD cable is excellent.
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post #345 of 1407 Old 01-22-2010, 01:39 AM
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And I guess I have to strongly disagree with diddling the picture in ways that alter what is on discs. To each his own, but I don't do it.

As for 1080i to 1080p... that is the most elementary process possible... you take 2 "half frames" and turn them into a single full frame - you just buffer the half frames, it's elementary. Digital displays don't have scanning electron beams to complicate things. In the digital domain, absolutely NO processing is needed or desired to do that. If you had a disc with the same program material recorded in 1080i and 1080p, there should be absolutely no difference in appearance on a 1080p display with or without a Radiance -- unless you add tweaks that alter the image... and to my way of thinking, that's not the point of a device like the Radiance.

I described what I observed by driving a Kuro display with a Radiance. You can't disagree with it... it is/was exactly as I described -- because I did NOT add anything artificial to the images with the Radiance.

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post #346 of 1407 Old 01-23-2010, 01:22 PM
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I wonder if Radiance owners will be getting Oppo BDP-80's for cheap ($289) since they do source direct.

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post #347 of 1407 Old 01-25-2010, 07:29 AM
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If I could buy a used XD for less than a new XS, should I do it?
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post #348 of 1407 Old 01-25-2010, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

If I could buy a used XD for less than a new XS, should I do it?

I'd say yeah, definitely.

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post #349 of 1407 Old 01-25-2010, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
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If I could buy a used XD for less than a new XS, should I do it?

I'd say more information is needed regarding your use/need.
This is a Radiance thread, so likely you will get an affirmative response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

I'd say yeah, definitely.

See!


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post #350 of 1407 Old 01-25-2010, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

I'd say more information is needed regarding your use/need.
This is a Radiance thread, so likely you will get an affirmative response.


See!


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Fair enough But come on. Just the 6 hdmi inputs instead of 4... If the price of the XD is less than that of the XS, I don't see any reason to go with the XS - regardless of use.

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post #351 of 1407 Old 01-25-2010, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

Fair enough But come on. Just the 6 hdmi inputs instead of 4... If the price of the XD is less than that of the XS, I don't see any reason to go with the XS - regardless of use.

I agree with you.

I may have read the initial question differently as "do I need a Radiance". And the interest because he found a great deal.

If the question is new XS vs. used XD, I would get the used XD.

Mike


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post #352 of 1407 Old 01-25-2010, 01:58 PM
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I'm glad that's settled then. Thanks
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post #353 of 1407 Old 01-25-2010, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

I wonder if Radiance owners will be getting Oppo BDP-80's for cheap ($289) since they do source direct.

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I've thought of doing just that - throw my BDP-83 upstairs where there's no VP, and put the BDP-80 down in the theater since I run everything through the Radiance anyways.

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post #354 of 1407 Old 01-25-2010, 07:17 PM
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Firmware Update:

XE
XD
XS


Production 011410-
Small precision improvement in video processing. Can now save last Pip source/mode per input.
Also added a default PiP mode setting under Other:PiP Setup: PiPSel/Mode.
The default Pip mode is initially set to "None" for each pip source (which means you stay with the current pip mode as you change pip sources as it acted previously).
If you set the default pip mode to 1-10 for a particular pip source then when you select that pip source it will use the assigned default pip mode.
Bugfix for occasionally powering on with a blank input which could be corrected by power cycling again.
Output sync polarities added under Output:OutputN:SyncPolarity.
Fixed label alignment in input menu.


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post #355 of 1407 Old 01-29-2010, 11:10 AM
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But RadianceXD have 21 point of gamma like RadianceXS/XE ?!
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post #356 of 1407 Old 01-29-2010, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven9x7 View Post

But RadianceXD have 21 point of gamma like RadianceXS/XE ?!

Yes.

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post #357 of 1407 Old 01-30-2010, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven9x7 View Post

But RadianceXD have 21 point of gamma like RadianceXS/XE ?!

Yes.

Did I miss this in a major firmware release? When did it go from 11 to 21??? I feel like I've been living under a rock...now I have to go turn on the Radiance and see if the 21pt correction snuck in there

Edit: Wow, this happened all the way back in September. I must be really out of it!

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post #358 of 1407 Old 01-30-2010, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Did I miss this in a major firmware release? When did it go from 11 to 21??? I feel like I've been living under a rock...now I have to go turn on the Radiance and see if the 21pt correction snuck in there

Edit: Wow, this happened all the way back in September. I must be really out of it!

Hey Hog, we have PiP now too

And more importantly, a 'video' deinterlacing mode, which is the cat's pajamas if like me you watch a lot of recorded cable.

D.


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post #359 of 1407 Old 01-30-2010, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

Hey Hog, we have PiP now too

And more importantly, a 'video' deinterlacing mode, which is the cat's pajamas if like me you watch a lot of recorded cable.

Dave -

How does the video deinterlacing work?
I don't think mine is on for my SA8300 cable box.

Mike

PS - We need another player for TX Holdem' tonight if you want to make the drive over. Snacks and drinks here.


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post #360 of 1407 Old 01-30-2010, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Dave -

How does the video deinterlacing work?
I don't think mine is on for my SA8300 cable box.

Mike

PS - We need another player for TX Holdem' tonight if you want to make the drive over. Snacks and drinks here.

Oh man thanks for the invite but I don't play cards Not that I don't want to, I just don't know how... never learned.

(Also flying out tomorrow morning for work... so not the best timing.)

Deinterlacing:
Menu -> Input x -> Video Setup -> (choose resolution) -> Control -> Deint -> Mode. If the resolution is not progressive, you should be able to choose between, film, video, or auto. Auto is pretty much useless as far as I'm concerned.

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