New Denon DVP-602CI with Silicon Optix HQV Realta Video Processing - AVS Forum
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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DVP-602CI: Reference Digital Video Processor and HDMI Switcher Features Silicon Optix HQV Realta Video Processing For Superb High Definition Picture Quality
$2,499.00
REALTA sxT2 HQV Processing
6 HDMI 1.3a inputs
Denon's DVP-602CI video processor and HDMI switcher solves two vexing problems facing HDTV owners. Most HDTV sets don't do a very good job of upconverting standard definition sources such as DVD, and many 1080p HDTV sets are similarly ill-equipped to correctly upconvert interlaced 1080i HDTV, cable and satellite signals, with artifacts such as objectionable jaggies spoiling the picture. And, with the growing number of HDMI-equipped sources, such as cable and satellite tuners, Blu-ray and HD DVD players and HD gaming consoles, most HDTV sets simply aren't equipped with a sufficient number of HDMI inputs. The DVP-602CI solves both problems, and features the top-performing HQV Realta video processing engine that provides near-HD picture quality with standard definition sources such as DVD, and allows pristine, artifact-free high definition reproduction. As well, the DVP-602CI features 6 HDMI inputs to accommodate a full suite of source components, along with a wide range of output resolutions to match the native resolution of any HDTV set or PC monitor.



Now it seems I can sell my DVDO VP50Pro
Linkes
602CI
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4154.asp
Product Sheet
http://usa.denon.com/DVP-602CILit_1221.pdf
User Manual
http://usa.denon.com/DVP-602CI-OM-E_005.pdf
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:20 AM
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After reading the manual I find this scaler quite limited in features.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackox View Post

After reading the manual I find this scaler quite limited in features.

Yes it is.

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Old 07-15-2008, 05:27 PM
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I'm a bit surprised that this will not perform an anamorphic stretch for 2.35 viewing. Is this a potential feature at some point, I wonder?
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDH View Post

I'm a bit surprised that this will not perform an anamorphic stretch for 2.35 viewing. Is this a potential feature at some point, I wonder?

If this is definitely true that it will not perform an anamorphic stretch for 2.35 viewing, then this is very limiting. I for one am very disappointed .

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Old 07-15-2008, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pers1 View Post

DVP-602CI: Reference Digital Video Processor and HDMI Switcher Features Silicon Optix HQV Realta Video Processing For Superb High Definition Picture Quality
$2,499.00
REALTA sxT2 HQV Processing



Now it seems I can sell my DVDO VP50Pro
Linkes
602CI
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4154.asp
Product Sheet
http://usa.denon.com/DVP-602CILit_1221.pdf
User Manual
http://usa.denon.com/DVP-602CI-OM-E_005.pdf


does everyone agree that the HQV Realta is "better" and more capable than what Anchor Bay is doing for the dvdo vp50?
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_james View Post

does everyone agree that the HQV Realta is "better" and more capable than what Anchor Bay is doing for the dvdo vp50?

Absolutely NO. You are inferring that anything with the Realta is superior to the VP50. I totally disagree with that inference.

To explain both Silicon Optix and ABT have excellent SOCs/chips. Both have examples of impressive performance in devices. Reon in Toshiba XA2 and ABTs VRS in Oppos new DVD as well as in their own DVDO brand of video processors.

What is better depends on the implementation of the device manufacturer and I am sure there are examples of poor implementation as well.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:07 AM
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Regarding anamorphic stretch for 2.35 viewing, on page 17 of the Instruction Manual there is a function called "Vertical Stretch".

It's only a guess but I suppose that this is the function that is doing 2.35 stretch when using anamorphic lens...
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ht4everBE View Post

Regarding anamorphic stretch for 2.35 viewing, on page 17 of the Instruction Manual there is a function called "Vertical Stretch".

It's only a guess but I suppose that this is the function that is doing 2.35 stretch when using anamorphic lens...

I took that to mean zoom/cropping a 16:9 to a 4:3 image, based on the "full screen" description, but maybe I'm wrong?
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:28 AM
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I was wondering if anyone was using this VP and how they liked it. I cannot find any reviews anywhere for this product.
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:29 PM
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I sure seems that the stretch is very limited to 33% if that is what it means. I agree the instruction manual is very sparce on the subject. I find having variable zoom is very useful for slightly different size screens and formats. I do own the 2500 BD player and it is great, but the feature set on the this VP is very limited for use in custom setups.
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:58 PM
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would this be a good option for scaling 480i and 1080i from cable to 1080p?
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by channad View Post

would this be a good option for scaling 480i and 1080i from cable to 1080p?

Yes...but the DVDO EDGE seems to have the edge in price...
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:05 PM
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Could this thread be merged with the one below?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=906321
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Old 12-24-2008, 08:28 PM
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Well, until the threads are merged, here's a link to my initial impressions of the 602:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15376047
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:02 PM
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For anyone following this thread and not the other, this VP is a keeper IMO. A solid implementation of Realta and it's fanless.
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Old 12-28-2008, 08:46 PM
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Watched 1080i (CBS) and 720p (FOX) as well as 1080i (NBC) football today and am happy to report excellent PQ for all. The best PQ for Sunday in my HT overall seen yet. Watched via OTA as well as D* Sunday Ticket. I experimented with the "enhancer" setting but ended up preferring it at zero.
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Old 01-01-2009, 08:55 AM
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Interesting email response that I received from IDT for those not following the other thread (I sure wish the threads would be merged!):

Hello Charles,

The Realta chip was not included in the Silicon Optix products acquired by IDT. For information on the Realta products, you may wish to contact Mike Poirier, GM of the Teranex division of Silicon Optix. You can reach Mike at mike.poirier@teranex.com

All the best,
IDT HQV Team


Other thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15376047
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:55 PM
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FYI for those not following the other thread 1080p24 conversion continues to work very well for me with the 602ci. Watched CSI last night (CBS D* HD DNS ch. 390) and 1080i->1080p24 was smooth and artifact-free throughout.

Also, FYI, Realta white paper from Teranex:
http://www.teranex.com/sites/default...Whitepaper.pdf
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackox View Post

After reading the manual I find this scaler quite limited in features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Yes it is.

On paper (key phrase) I find that I still have this impression going into it although I have been following cpcat and some others on this unit.

What I wonder about is: I know that people can get VP50 Pros legit for basically around the MSRP of this Denon unit.

And then of course we know about the Edge and how well it performs at its price.

So boiled down: What's the draw on this unit?

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ View Post

So boiled down: What's the draw on this unit?

2 letters: PQ.

It's the best I've seen in my HT and I've owned Lumagen HDP, Anthem AVM50 (Gennum VXP), Integra DTC-9.8 (Reon), and DVDO Edge.

The 602ci is the only HDMI 1.3a VP at anywhere near its price point to include top notch scaling/deinterlacing for SD/HD sources as well as fully capable noise reduction (both MNR and temporal NR). It is the only unit I've had that actually provides consistent artifact-free 1080p24 from both SD/HD sources (including broadcast sources and even 480p/720p film sources). Additionally, it also happens to be well implemented HDMI 1.3a (6 independently configurable inputs including output res and dual output) ---fully functional with bug-free audio including multichannel PCM.
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

2 letters: PQ.

It's the best I've seen in my HT and I've owned Lumagen HDP, Anthem AVM50 (Gennum VXP), Integra DTC-9.8 (Reon), and DVDO Edge.

The 602ci is the only HDMI 1.3a VP at anywhere near its price point to include top notch scaling/deinterlacing for SD/HD sources as well as fully capable noise reduction (both MNR and temporal NR). It is the only unit I've had that actually provides consistent artifact-free 1080p24 from both SD/HD sources (including broadcast sources and even 480p/720p film sources). Additionally, it also happens to be well implemented HDMI 1.3a (6 independently configurable inputs including output res and dual output) ---fully functional with bug-free audio including multichannel PCM.

I've been following you on this and I'm impressed so far with what you and a few others have reported on this. I'll be keeping tabs on things. I appreciate the information.

I just wanted to tip my hat and let you know that there are plenty of lurkers like me out there paying attention.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ View Post

I've been following you on this and I'm impressed so far with what you and a few others have reported on this. I'll be keeping tabs on things. I appreciate the information.

I just wanted to tip my hat and let you know that there are plenty of lurkers like me out there paying attention.

Thanks. I'm hoping I eventually won't be the only owner posting.

It would be great if the mods would merge the two threads as well. There are many good earlier posts that should be included from both of them.
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:04 PM
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Well, as I indicated in the initial review, the Realta/602ci is not absolutely perfect when it come to video deinterlacing. I've noticed slight jaggies when watching HD football/basketball (especially with near-horizontal lines ie. boundary lines or the teardrop-shaped "yards to go" overlay on NBC). It's roughly equal to ABT 2010, Pio Kuro and Gennum VXP in this regard (so still good performance), but not excellent. Reon, on the other hand, seems to do the best job at this of any deinterlacer I've seen. For now, for critical viewing of HD 1080i video sources, I'll use Reon to deinterlace (Integra DTC-9.8) and still allow the 602ci to do its magic with noise reduction. This will include the SUPER BOWL obviously.

It would seem logical that the Reon performance with video deinterlacing could be matched or possibly even surpassed with added tweaks to Realta's firmware. Denon, are you listening?
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:31 PM
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Are not the Reon and Realta from the same company?
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta-kid View Post

Are not the Reon and Realta from the same company?

Yep, although technically not now. Both Reon/Realta used to be owned by Silicon Optix. Reon is now owned by IDT while Realta is owned by Teranex. At least this is the best I've been able to determine.

That's why I suggested that Realta should certainly be firmware-tweakable to equal or surpass Reon's performance with video deinterlacing.

The advantage/disadvantage to Realta is that its performance is very much software dependent. Reon's is more or less hard-wired into the chip. Thus, Realta's performance very much depends on its implementation and Realta can be more easily upgraded via firmware.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:03 PM
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...The advantage/disadvantage to Realta is that its performance is very much software dependent....

The -feature set- as implemented by a video processor vendor is more flexible than the Reon because it is software programmable, but the actual raw video processing capability in the Realta (including de-interlacing performance) eclipses that of the Reon.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

...The advantage/disadvantage to Realta is that its performance is very much software dependent....

The -feature set- as implemented by a video processor vendor is more flexible than the Reon because it is software programmable, but the actual raw video processing capability in the Realta (including de-interlacing performance) eclipses that of the Reon.

Nice to have a new face here. Thanks for the input.

I've read through various posts by oyfoo and Andy Kromkamp that indicate the same. However, "reading b/w the lines" so to speak, it would seem that tradeoffs are made. For example, asking the Realta to do more computations to improve diagonal filtering of near-horizontal lines may take away from processing power better used for noise reduction. I still feel that the algorithms could be tweaked to at least equal Reon in that regard without sacrificing NR performance, but that's pure speculation as I'm an amateur and not a software engineer.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...22#post7391122
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:05 PM
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There was a pretty good dissertation of the processors a few years back from a design engineer that actually worked at Silicon Optix. Don't remember what the thread title was.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

There was a pretty good dissertation of the processors a few years back from a design engineer that actually worked at Silicon Optix. Don't remember what the thread title was.

That would be oyfoo and Andy but alas I assume they are now elsewhere.
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