"Official HD-SDI Discussion, Comparisons & Etc..." - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I just thought it would be a good idea to start a thread for HD-SDI users and for those thinking about getting into it. Currently I have the VP50 pro and am seriously contemplating doing the HD-SDI route. I know some now are using the Panny BD30 Blu ray player with the HD-SDI mod and I am curious to know what their thoughts are. I would like to know how hard it is to do the HD-SDI mod to other units. How long does it take and about how much we can expect the price to be around. I like the BD30 and have two of them actually but I am really considering waiting and doing it with the new Pioneer 51 Blu ray player shipping next month. Of course there may not be an advantage to wait for it and going the BD30 route may be more optimal. Any thoughts?

I also know Gary Murrell is a key expert in doing HD-SDI mods and I especially welcome his knowledge on the HD-SDI subject as well. I would really like his thoughts and or comparisons (and anybody elses) versus HDMI...

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post #2 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 05:41 PM
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I will be glad to add tons of stuff to this thread Joe, right now I am looking at the BD30 I just finished modding and I like what I see

-Gary
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post #3 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 05:58 PM
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I just waiting for mods to become available.

Gary, is your mod based on the previous available mod from JVB or are there any other manufacturers in the HD-SDI modkits business ?
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post #4 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 07:45 PM
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don't look for any HD-SDI kits to hit anytime soon, it just can't be done, code has to be written and programmed for each and every device out there, would be a nightmare for someone to implement commercially like PMS etc.

I have mods going now, just completed my personal BD30

-Gary
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post #5 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 08:31 PM
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I may have to send you my BH 100 or 200 to look at too gary.

Athanasios
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post #6 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 08:35 PM
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this isn't a thread without some............. PICS!!!

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post #7 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, we need to get some good pics going...

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post #8 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 10:04 PM
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got one, it is a little boring:



will have some screens from the BD30 and VP50pro soon

I am aweing over the HD-SDI image, must.... stay.... in my system

bring it on Athan

-Gary
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post #9 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 10:21 PM
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Gary,

Boring to some perhaps, quite meaningful to others I assure you.
UPS tracking indicates my unit has made it to Tenessee.

Mark Conner
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post #10 of 190 Old 06-24-2008, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon View Post

Gary,

Boring to some perhaps, quite meaningful to others I assure you.
UPS tracking indicates my unit has made it to Tenessee.

thanks Mark

yes I should have said that, not boring to me at all for sure

for those wondering what Mark is talking about, I am going to be installing a HD-SDI output on his VP50pro unit, weird you might say? not when you want your scaler to feed one of the CRT projector blend units a HD-SDI signal

I have requests for HD-SDI input mods for the Radiance and HDx Lumagen lines as well and will be looking into those for sure

-Gary
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post #11 of 190 Old 06-25-2008, 02:24 AM
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I know some now are using the Panny BD30 Blu ray player with the HD-SDI mod and I am curious to know what their thoughts are.

I have two of the Panny BD30's that have the HD-SDI mod done by JVB. I have tried them both with a VP50Pro and using the HDMI output just for audio. In one application I am using the Integra 9.8 pre/pro and in the other an Onkyo receiver (forget which model, but it is one of the new 1.3's).
In both cases, I am getting absolutely no audio what-so-ever. If I switch to spdif, I then get the down-rezzed audio.
I have had conversations with JVB, and I am convinced they will do whatever they can to help solve this problem.
They have tested using both a Denon and Pioneer receivers and had no issues. Perhaps it is some form of incompatibility. Don't ya just love HDCP?!?!
I have even hooked up a Moome external box to the output of the receiver to make it think it was feeding an HDCP compliant TV, and still no audio.
Maybe someone else has tried this combo with positive results?
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post #12 of 190 Old 06-25-2008, 02:25 AM
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OH-OH - Forgot to say that the HD-SDI video works perfectly and is nothing short of awesome!
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post #13 of 190 Old 06-25-2008, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I like the pics!

Can't wait for screen shots...

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post #14 of 190 Old 06-25-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post

I have two of the Panny BD30's that have the HD-SDI mod done by JVB. I have tried them both with a VP50Pro and using the HDMI output just for audio. In one application I am using the Integra 9.8 pre/pro and in the other an Onkyo receiver (forget which model, but it is one of the new 1.3's).
In both cases, I am getting absolutely no audio what-so-ever. If I switch to spdif, I then get the down-rezzed audio.
I have had conversations with JVB, and I am convinced they will do whatever they can to help solve this problem.
They have tested using both a Denon and Pioneer receivers and had no issues. Perhaps it is some form of incompatibility. Don't ya just love HDCP?!?!
I have even hooked up a Moome external box to the output of the receiver to make it think it was feeding an HDCP compliant TV, and still no audio.
Maybe someone else has tried this combo with positive results?

I know what kind of trouble you are having Bob, I encountered this a little with my BD30 I modded and my Onkyo 885/Integra 9.8

here is what you need to do, you must have a output device connected to the Integra(something 24p capable), connect the HDMI from the BD30 to the Integra put it on that input and start a movie, you should have sound and video as normal, while the movie is still playing flip over to your HD-SDI input on the Pro(during this process before flipping to the HD-SDI input have the pro on another input), you now have HDMI audio and HD-SDI video

the problem is that the HDMI output must first authenticate and start rolling then you can switch to HD-SDI

-Gary
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post #15 of 190 Old 06-25-2008, 03:09 PM
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Quote:


here is what you need to do, you must have a output device connected to the Integra(something 24p capable), connect the HDMI from the BD30 to the Integra put it on that input and start a movie, you should have sound and video as normal, while the movie is still playing flip over to your HD-SDI input on the Pro(during this process before flipping to the HD-SDI input have the pro on another input), you now have HDMI audio and HD-SDI video

I don't have a 24p capable device. I tried it with Moome's 1st generation exterior box, but did not hook up its output to anything.

If I get this working, am I going to have to do this everytime!!!?

Thanks,
Bob
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post #16 of 190 Old 06-25-2008, 03:11 PM
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you must have a output device connected to the Integra(something 24p capable),

Gary - What do you use as a 24p sink?

Thanks,
Bob
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post #17 of 190 Old 06-26-2008, 12:28 AM
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yes Bob, you will need to keep this system setup to be able to do what you want

I connected the Onkyo output to a input on the VP50pro, that way you could flip over to it to get the audio flowing and then flip back to HD-SDI on the pro to get the HD-SDI video

I have a feeling it is just the Onkyo units

-Gary
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post #18 of 190 Old 07-03-2008, 09:42 PM
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as I promised I said I would take some screenshots and give some more info/feedback on HD-SDI

later on I will address those that asked me technical questions about the mods, source of hardware used etc.

after viewing HD-SDI for about a week now all I can say is that I am totally obsessed, the PQ is simply unreal, noise and edginess is certainly down to a minimum if not totally gone compared to the HDMI output on the Panny BD30, colors and gradients are improved as well, the image is simply more natural looking

feeding the VP50pro a HD-SDI image also allows the unit to do it's magic with a higher end signal and give that much better of a higher quality image vs HDMI as the end result, it is amazing

for my viewing and tests I used 1080p/24 4:2:2 HD-SDI output, this is the purest form of output available from this player via any connection, HD-SDI 1080p/24 4:2:2 is where it is at folks, even if your end result is a 60hz output from your scaler (such as me) 1080i and 720p outputs are available as well, although the later is of no usage, 1080p/60hz is not capable via single link HD-SDI, so you get a yellow unrecognized signal via the pro with that, but again it is not what you want anyway, straight disc playback via HD-SDI at 1080p/24 4:2:2 should be all that matters

on to the screenshots, equipment used is in my sig:













-Gary
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post #19 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 12:24 AM
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Very impressive shots Gary, those screen shots look extremely clean and pure,Do you use A Colorimeter for your gray scale and Gamma settings. When are you looking at getting the new moome HDMI 1.3 input card for your Highend NEC 1352LC so you can output A pure untouched YcBcR 4:2:2 from the 50pro into you NEC projector instead of RGB ?. In regards to the VP50pro's HD-SDI input, IT would apear DVDO have ironed out the bugs with the latest fix's which is Excellent news for all that bought the HD-SD module....
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post #20 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 12:32 AM
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Well, to be honest, Blu-Ray photos scaled down like this always look great. Any difference between SDI and HDMI is surely not to be seen at such scaled down photos. Usually you need blown up screenshots and not scaled down screenshots to show any differences. That said, I like (HD-)SDI cause I've learned not to trust source devices.
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post #21 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Well, to be honest, Blu-Ray photos scaled down like this always look great. Any difference between SDI and HDMI is surely not to be seen at such scaled down photos. Usually you need blown up screenshots and not scaled down screenshots to show any differences. That said, I like (HD-)SDI cause I've learned not to trust source devices.

of course madshi, no difference at all with these shots

I merely wanted to show that I actually have HD-SDI on screen and I am not talking out of my ass without actually looking at it

that said this is a CRT projector(which alot of folks wouldn't believe from the shots), which are said to not be sharp, all the more the better with HD-SDI,

-Gary
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post #22 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

Very impressive shots Gary, those screen shots look extremely clean and pure,Do you use A Colorimeter for your gray scale and Gamma settings. When are you looking at getting the new moome HDMI 1.3 input card for your Highend NEC 1352LC so you can output A pure untouched YcBcR 4:2:2 from the 50pro into you NEC projector instead of RGB ?. In regards to the VP50pro's HD-SDI input, IT would apear DVDO have ironed out the bugs with the latest fix's which is Excellent news for all that bought the HD-SD module....

thanks a bunch, that is exactly what I am trying to describe HD-SDI as, clean and pure

the first thing I want to say that these shots are a little messed up from what I see, my camera has some red push in the greyscale and oversaturates colors a bit

I do use a colorimeter to set greyscale and gamma

the VP50pro HD-SDI module is 100% perfect as of now IMHO, all the problems have been corrected as far as I am concerned, I am thankful to have the capability with the VP50pro, it is just awesome

I am thinking of trying the moome HDMI card, though I may go back to RGBHV output from the VP50pro, another benefit to HD-SDI

-Gary
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post #23 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 04:36 AM
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Yeah it is sort of funny with us CRT pureist's using A (inferior) Digital camera to take screen shots of our (superior) CRT'S in action , But there the sacrafices you have to make sometimes, That last picture is as good as it gets!! full of visual Bliss so 3D life like, detail is Crisp clean and pure!!
What type of Colorimeter do you use Gary ?....
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post #24 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 10:03 AM
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Im new to this HDi concept but had a few questions.

Why use the BD30 if it can't output 480i?
Wouldn't the display need to be HDi in order to not kill any advantage HDi has?
Whats something like this cost?
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post #25 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 10:30 AM
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The advantage of an SDI connection is that, at least in theory, you can get no processing of the content done by the source and a digital link to your external scaler or display. SDI is also easy to terminate "in the field" and can easily be run long lengths, unlike HDMI.

There are two "flavors" of SDI: SD-SDI and HD-SDI. Further, there are three versions of HD-SDI: single link, dual differential, and 3 gig. The VP50PRO uses single link which is capable of accepting 720p-60, 1080i-50/60, and 1080p-24/25/60. 1080 24PsF, progressively segmented frames, is not currently supported on the VP50PRO but it is a format that we are looking at adding.

For an HD source like the BD30, 1080p24 is the optimal output because that is what is encoded on the disc. I am sure that Gary has an SD-DVD player with SD-SDI that he is running into the other SDI input on his VP50PRO that he uses for watching DVDs.

I believe Gary said the mod for your source is about $800 and the HD-SDI input module for the VP50PRO is $599.

Another advantage is that there is no HDCP on the digital signal which means that you can use the analog outputs of the VP50PRO to connect to a CRT projector, or older display without a digital input.

Josh Allen
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post #26 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 10:49 AM
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How is the audio handled?
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post #27 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

The advantage of an SDI connection is that, at least in theory, you can get no processing of the content done by the source and a digital link to your external scaler or display. SDI is also easy to terminate "in the field" and can easily be run long lengths, unlike HDMI.

There are two "flavors" of SDI: SD-SDI and HD-SDI. Further, there are three versions of HD-SDI: single link, dual differential, and 3 gig. The VP50PRO uses single link which is capable of accepting 720p-60, 1080i-50/60, and 1080p-24/25/60. 1080 24PsF, progressively segmented frames, is not currently supported on the VP50PRO but it is a format that we are looking at adding.

For an HD source like the BD30, 1080p24 is the optimal output because that is what is encoded on the disc. I am sure that Gary has an SD-DVD player with SD-SDI that he is running into the other SDI input on his VP50PRO that he uses for watching DVDs.

I believe Gary said the mod for your source is about $800 and the HD-SDI input module for the VP50PRO is $599.

Another advantage is that there is no HDCP on the digital signal which means that you can use the analog outputs of the VP50PRO to connect to a CRT projector, or older display without a digital input.

Thanks Josh. Is it possible to have a BD player that outputs 480i for DVD's and 1080p/24 for BD with only using an HDi or would I also need an SDi for standard def?
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post #28 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Thanks Josh. Is it possible to have a BD player that outputs 480i for DVD's and 1080p/24 for BD with only using an HDi or would I also need an SDi for standard def?

It depends on the mod.

There is no HDi and SDi (at least when it comes to digital interfaces).

SDI = Serial Digital Interface.

SD-SDI = Standard Definition SDI

HD-SDI = High Definition SDI

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post #29 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

It depends on the mod.

There is no HDi and SDi (at least when it comes to digital interfaces).

SDI = Serial Digital Interface.

SD-SDI = Standard Definition SDI

HD-SDI = High Definition SDI

Ok... what exactly would I need to get this option from a BD player and the Pro?
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post #30 of 190 Old 07-04-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

Yeah it is sort of funny with us CRT pureist's using A (inferior) Digital camera to take screen shots of our (superior) CRT'S in action , But there the sacrafices you have to make sometimes, That last picture is as good as it gets!! full of visual Bliss so 3D life like, detail is Crisp clean and pure!!
What type of Colorimeter do you use Gary ?....

I use a laptop dedicated to this purpose with HCFR software, I use the Eye-One display LT pro

-Gary
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