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post #271 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

Not only can EDGE output 1080p-24 from 1080i content, it can do this with 480i, 480p and 720p content using our Precision Deinterlacing and Progressive Cadence Detection. No other video processor on the market (other than the VP50/VP50PRO ) can do this.

This is inaccurate...My Lumagen VisionHDP upscales and deinterlaces all scan rates to 1080p24 or 1080p60.
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post #272 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Outputting 1080p-24 or 1080p-60 is one thing outputting the original 24 frames that exist in a 480p or 720p broadcast at 1080p-24 is another thing.

Josh Allen
DVDO Product Manager
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post #273 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgarner View Post

1. Can the Edge convert a 1080p to 720p?
...

Yes

...


Regarding 1080p24 to 720p conversion: 720p at 24 or 48 Hz?
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post #274 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_N View Post

Regarding 1080p24 to 720p conversion: 720p at 24 or 48 Hz?

720p at 24Hz/48Hz/72Hz are not default output formats of EDGE.

Josh Allen
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post #275 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

720p at 24Hz/48Hz/72Hz are not default output formats of EDGE.

Ok, thanks for you answer. I understand it as that 1080p24->720p is not possible at any (output) refresh rate. Correct? Or do I get 720p60?

Feeling a bit confused
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post #276 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

Not only can EDGE output 1080p-24 from 1080i content, it can do this with 480i, 480p and 720p content using our Precision Deinterlacing and Progressive Cadence Detection. No other video processor on the market (other than the VP50/VP50PRO ) can do this.

This is inaccurate...My Lumagen VisionHDP upscales and deinterlaces all scan rates to 1080p24 or 1080p60.

I believe what Josh is referring to is the ability to perform cadence detection on progressive sources, not just interlaced ones. (If you look at the post he originally responded to this becomes clear.) This allows DVDO products to perform IVT from formats like 480p60 and 720p60 to 1080p24. Note that he's not talking about simple frame rate conversion from 60 Hz to 24 Hz, but rather true IVT from 60 Hz progressive formats with 3:2 pulldown to 24 Hz. (The DVDO processors can do the same with 50 Hz progressive to 25 Hz as well, by the way.)

At time I developed this technology -- about 2 years ago -- there was no one else doing it, including Silicon Optix, Gennum and Lumagen. While I suppose it's possible that they've done this in the meantime, I have yet to hear of it or see any confirmation of it.

Just to be clear here: You're claiming that your Lumagen HDP will convert a 720p60 source with 3:2 pulldown to 108p24, showing each original film frame exactly once?

- Dale Adams
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post #277 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_N View Post

Ok, thanks for you answer. I understand it as that 1080p24->720p is not possible at any (output) refresh rate. Correct? Or do I get 720p60?

Feeling a bit confused

You can get 720p60 with 3:2 pulldown. You just can't get 720p at 24, 48 or 72 Hz.

- Dale Adams
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post #278 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_N View Post

Ok, thanks for you answer. I understand it as that 1080p24->720p is not possible at any (output) refresh rate. Correct? Or do I get 720p60?

Feeling a bit confused

can't your display accept 1080p?

anyway, asking the 3rd time.....how's the control for overscan and underscan? by percentage or a fixed amount which can't be configured?
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post #279 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by iMbEst View Post

how's the control for overscan and underscan? by percentage or a fixed amount which can't be configured?

There's no overscan control, per se. But the zoom control, which performs a similar function, goes by percentages. Underscan is not by a fixed amount, but is adjustable on a scale from 0 to 100. I'm not sure what the maximum underscan percentage is, but the steps would appear to be less than 1% each.

- Dale Adams
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post #280 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams View Post

There's no overscan control, per se. But the zoom control, which performs a similar function, goes by percentages. Underscan is not by a fixed amount, but is adjustable on a scale from 0 to 100. I'm not sure what the maximum underscan percentage is, but the steps would appear to be less than 1% each.

- Dale Adams


If underscan is the same as the VP50pro, it can't go below 75% which is not enough to center a 16/9 image on a 2.35 screen.

And if zoom is the same as the VP50pro, it can't go below 100% so it can't be used to center a 16/9 image on a 2.35 screen too.

Richard.
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post #281 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams View Post

(The DVDO processors can do the same with 50 Hz progressive to 25 Hz as well, by the way.)

Can DVDOs extract 25 Hz frames from 60 Hz sources? I had a discussion related to this with a BD mastering person here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14315180

--Andre
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post #282 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreYew View Post

Can DVDOs extract 25 Hz frames from 60 Hz sources? I had a discussion related to this with a BD mastering person here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14315180

No. And you may well not want it to, anyway.

Some professional standards conversion systems blend original frames together to produce a different output frame rate. In some of the 50-to-60 Hz conversion results I've seen, all of the original frames are no longer present in the converted video. That may even be the case for state of the art systems using motion compensation, as conversion from 25 Hz to 60 Hz results in some original 25 Hz frames not having an exact temporal alignment with the 60 Hz output frames.

In other words, it may not be possible to extract the original frames (if you could even identify them) since they are not all still there after the conversion. Even if they were all there, the current cadence detection logic in the ABT2010 chip (which is used in the Edge) does not perform the necessary type of analysis to identify the original frames in this type of source material.

- Dale Adams
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post #283 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 02:33 PM
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Hi Dale........ nice to see you back around the Dungeon!

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post #284 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams View Post

Just to be clear here: You're claiming that your Lumagen HDP will convert a 720p60 source with 3:2 pulldown to 108p24, showing each original film frame exactly once?

- Dale Adams

I confirmed the VisionHDP does not have this capability.
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post #285 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams View Post

No. And you may well not want it to, anyway.

This contradicts in my view the recommendation Josh gave me for exactly that purpose: proper deinterlacing and scaling of transcoded material (NTSC to PAL)

So what is the deal, will the EDGE do a proper job or not?

Neko
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post #286 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuroNeko View Post

This contradicts in my view the recommendation Josh gave me for exactly that purpose: proper deinterlacing and scaling of transcoded material (NTSC to PAL)

So what is the deal, will the EDGE do a proper job or not?

Andre asked about frame rate conversion, and, in particular, extraction of original film frames to be used as the basis of that frame rate conversion.

You're asking about deinterlacing and scaling, and that's a very different issue. For transcoded material the real problem is deinterlacing - i.e., will the deinterlacer properly handle material where a repeating cadence (if present) has been distorted, possibly severely, due to the transcoding process. In this case, what you really want the deinterlacer to do is to stay in video mode all the time. The Edge's deinterlacer has logic to identify cases such as transcoded material and handle it appropriately. Whether the end result meets your definition of "proper" or not is a subjective call that only you can make.

- Dale Adams
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post #287 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

I confirmed the VisionHDP does not have this capability.

That is correct. Additionally, I've followed the Radiance thread pretty closely and I don't believe it will do this either. The only other processor that I'm aware of that will is what's in the Pio Kuro displays. It will take a 720p60 film source, extract p24 and display at p72. It works ok but with some artifacting (occasional jerkiness in the image).
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post #288 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post



This is inaccurate...My Lumagen VisionHDP upscales and deinterlaces all scan rates to 1080p24 or 1080p60.

Are you 100% sure it will take a 720p/60 input and output it at 1080p/24 ?

edit: oops, for some reason my browser only showed the first post on this page at first :blush:
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post #289 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyates69 View Post

Any chance of a corrected 50Hz porch output for CRT users?

E.g an extra two or three output modes

CRT - 720p@50Hz
CRT - 1080i@50Hz
CRT - 1080p@50Hz

I think with the value of CRT's becoming lower this could open up your market to a range of CRT users that don't want to pay big bucks for a processor, but would like to use this in conjunction with a HD Fury etc.

So no chance of any extra CRT friendly fixed resolutions?
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post #290 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyates69 View Post

So no chance of any extra CRT friendly fixed resolutions?

We have no plans to support non-standard formats on EDGE. These include these resolutions that you are asking about.

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post #291 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams View Post

No. And you may well not want it to, anyway.

Thanks Dale. That was very helpful information.

--Andre
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post #292 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams View Post

There's no overscan control, per se. But the zoom control, which performs a similar function, goes by percentages. Underscan is not by a fixed amount, but is adjustable on a scale from 0 to 100. I'm not sure what the maximum underscan percentage is, but the steps would appear to be less than 1% each.

- Dale Adams

Thanks! That's good enough, I always have this problem with my Samsung 5084 for non-JustScan setting, it always overscan by 5% and this can't be adjusted. So underscan 7-10% should do the trick well.
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post #293 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 10:20 PM
 
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josh i sent in my form for beta tester,when will i be contacted? will it be from a dealer in VANCOUVER BC.Or someone from AVS forum.?
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post #294 of 7106 Old 07-28-2008, 11:49 PM
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I scanned the thread but didn't spot an answer to the following question (Sorry if I missed it).

My SkyHD box will potentially output 576p,720p or 1080i. Given these will be on a single input can the Edge assign different settings for different res/freq on the same input ?

D
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post #295 of 7106 Old 07-29-2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

My SkyHD box will potentially output 576p,720p or 1080i. Given these will be on a single input can the Edge assign different settings for different res/freq on the same input ?

And will it auto-switch?

"Worth waiting for"
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post #296 of 7106 Old 07-29-2008, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlemesle View Post

If underscan is the same as the VP50pro, it can't go below 75% which is not enough to center a 16/9 image on a 2.35 screen.

This sounds about right since I have mine set to 20 out of 100 to correct for around 5% (a number I discovered using my Nvidia software) . It seems that each increment is very close to 1/4 percent. My television also doesn't quite display a perfect 1.78:1 at this setting and I need to use the Aspect ratio setting at 1.77:1 to have the image fit perfect along with a +1,-2 shift. As I mentioned before this is one of the main reasons why I bought a DVDO, and wouldn't consider a processor without these features.
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post #297 of 7106 Old 07-29-2008, 06:05 AM
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Josh,

I believe that there are a number of CIH users who are interested in the product based on some of the posts here and also in the CIH forum. However several (including me) are still confused about the product and the ability to use it with a CIH system. Can you check in on this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post14376541 thread or add additional information here?

Thanks,
T.Wells
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post #298 of 7106 Old 07-29-2008, 10:00 AM
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Hi Josh,

The EDGE looks very promising and I can't wait to beta test it. Will it come with a DVDO test DVD or BluRay disk?

Cheers.
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post #299 of 7106 Old 07-29-2008, 10:44 AM
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Good day,

Is there any way that the Mods can create a special "Beta Forum" where the users in the Beta program can share information? I would assume that you can restrict it to Beta test users?

This could help having the beta testers send you questions / concerns that might be similiar to other requests.

Hoping the Beta machines ship in the next week. Got lots of time and test material to go thru.

Thanks and have a good day!

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post #300 of 7106 Old 07-29-2008, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgarner View Post

Good day,

Is there any way that the Mods can create a special "Beta Forum" where the users in the Beta program can share information? I would assume that you can restrict it to Beta test users?

This could help having the beta testers send you questions / concerns that might be similiar to other requests.

Hoping the Beta machines ship in the next week. Got lots of time and test material to go thru.

We plan on doing this ourselves. All information will be communicated directly to the Public Beta testers just prior to recieving their EDGEs.

Josh Allen
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