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post #61 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fubarduck View Post

Will this product have the ability to turn off Progressive Cadence Detection for lower latency gaming with progressive-source game consoles?

OK, I feel a little left out that mine didn't get answered!

This is really the make or break feature for the EDGE becoming the ultimate HT Gaming accessory.
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post #62 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fubarduck View Post

OK, I feel a little left out that mine didn't get answered!

This is really the make or break feature for the EDGE becoming the ultimate HT Gaming accessory.

You want to know if this is what happens when in game mode, correct?

Quote:


Game Mode with very low latency (sub-1 frame delay)

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post #63 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 12:55 PM
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For people interested in ordering now, they are running a beta program. It is $500 (see sticky at the top of this forum). Follow the instructions and you can get in on the beta program!

Thanks!
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post #64 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

You want to know if this is what happens when in game mode, correct?

The Game Mode is a deinterlacing mode, which means not available when using Progressive input sources. Both the VP50 and VP50Pro suffered from this foible, which meant that you could play games lag-free at 480i but if you had any sources at 480p, 720p, 1080p (Wii, PS3, XBox 360), they would lag by three frames due to cadence detection that couldn't be turned off.

The VP50Pro corrected this issue with a firmware update (allowing you to turn off cadence detection), but the VP50 never got this feature AFAIK making it a total joke as an HT Gaming device. I sold my VP50 and "upgraded" to a VP30 with ABT102d to work around this!

I hope that DVDO can overcome this hurdle with the EDGE and create a truly end-all HT Gaming product. Perhaps a "Game Mode" for Progressive sources could be selectable to ensure that cadence detection is disabled.
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post #65 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 02:07 PM
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Didn't the VP50 (non pro) get the "cadence detection off" function quite recently with the last FW upgrade ? I think so.
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post #66 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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"Game Mode" on EDGE is different than the Game Modes on VP20/VP30/VP50/VP50PRO. The VP line of products have two different deinterlacing modes called "Game Mode 1" and "Game Mode 2". EDGE has a mode called "Game Mode" that allows a user to define whether or not a game console is connected on a specific input. Once this mode is applied the deinterlacing mode that will be used on that input (for interlaced sources) is "Game Mode 1" additionally if the input is progressive, Progressive Cadence Detection will be turned off on that input.

Josh Allen
DVDO Product Manager
Josh@DVDO.com
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post #67 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

Didn't the VP50 (non pro) get the "cadence detection off" function quite recently with the last FW upgrade ? I think so.

Yes, it did.
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post #68 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 02:20 PM
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Josh wrote:
> EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production). <<br />
I know manufacturers (and Product Managers ) like to make lists of what their products CAN do, versus what they CAN'T, and you did a great job of that with the initial post. But to avoid a gazillion questions about "can it do this and that", as well as assumptions some will make "I'm sure it will have Test Patterns", it might be a good idea to outline the boundaries for this new product more clearly, so that potential users can decide more easily if it fits their needs.

E.g., you could start with:
- no color management
- no test patterns
- no support for 768p plasmas
- limitations on preset adjustability
- etc.

Comments like Andre's about ancillary benefits, e.g. in spite of lacking 1:1 mapping, would also be very appropriate. Or, instead of making a list of NOT this and that, phrase it as a list of features that go beyond it's intended purpose (removes all the negative prefixes).

I don't see any reason why making the reasons more obvious why someone might prefer a VP-series product wouldn't be a good thing. While the Edge may be a fantastic product at a breakthough price, it's not going to be all things to all people, and avoiding a lot of speculation and disappointment should be a good thing. Otherwise, we're going to see the next 100 pages of discussion fill up fast.

- Tim

- Tim
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post #69 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

"Game Mode" on EDGE is different than the Game Modes on VP20/VP30/VP50/VP50PRO. The VP line of products have two different deinterlacing modes called "Game Mode 1" and "Game Mode 2". EDGE has a mode called "Game Mode" that allows a user to define whether or not a game console is connected on a specific input. Once this mode is applied the deinterlacing mode that will be used on that input (for interlaced sources) is "Game Mode 1" additionally if the input is progressive, Progressive Cadence Detection will be turned off on that input.

Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to clarify this feature. Sounds spot-on perfect to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

Didn't the VP50 (non pro) get the "cadence detection off" function quite recently with the last FW upgrade ? I think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hothersale View Post

Yes, it did.

Cool, haven't been keeping up with the VP50 updates since I sold mine. Better late than never.
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post #70 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

"Game Mode" on EDGE is different than the Game Modes on VP20/VP30/VP50/VP50PRO. The VP line of products have two different deinterlacing modes called "Game Mode 1" and "Game Mode 2". EDGE has a mode called "Game Mode" that allows a user to define whether or not a game console is connected on a specific input. Once this mode is applied the deinterlacing mode that will be used on that input (for interlaced sources) is "Game Mode 1" additionally if the input is progressive, Progressive Cadence Detection will be turned off on that input.

What about combo game/film devices like the PS3? If the Game mode is tied to an input, then I hope it is easy to turn on/off (remote button or code?). I watch BluRays and play games on my PS3.
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post #71 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ View Post


It's enough of a giant killer that I can't imagine that DVDO doesn't consider a price drop on some of their other products when Edge hits the streets in a few months or whenever it is. Compare the specs that Josh cites in the first post here vs. those of the VP50 and VP50 Pro and then think about the huge price differences between those vs. the Edge.

Something's got to give.

I'm not so sure. Time will tell, but basically, if the EDGE covers your needs (it does have features that the VP50 doesn't), why would you care if a VP50 was 2x or 3x the price? You wouldn't buy the VP50 anyway, even if the price increase diminished. Likewise, if the EDGE does not cover your needs (say you need custom resolutions), would you buy it just because it is cheap? They are different products for different markets. Obviously the EDGE will take away _a lot_ of the VP50 sales, because a lot of the VP50 buyers really don't need the flexibility etc. that the VP50 has to offer. But that's a calculated risk. Now that the EDGE _IS_ here (well, will be), and it will take away some VP50 sales, all DVDO can do about it is make sure they make the most of it - and I'm not sure they will maximize their income by bringing down the price of the VP series.

If anything, the EDGE slowing down sales of the VP series might make the VP's even more of a niche product, making the need for higher margins on this product even higher.

I do suspect that the VP line would be cut in numbers though. With the recent price cut of the VP50, is there really a need for a VP30? (in this country at least, VP30 + ABT102 is MORE than a VP50...) And the VP20, most people in the target group will buy an EDGE instead. My guess (!) would be that the line will be cut down to EDGE, VP50 and VP50Pro, with the latter two remaining at the current price points.

Mvh. Otto, AV Precision
Installer/Calibrator
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post #72 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 03:10 PM
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Anyone respond to the beta tester survey and get an out of office reply in their email inbox? (out of office until 7/28)

I just want to make sure it is definitely received as Jason's sticky indicates I will know something in about 3 days.
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post #73 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post

Josh wrote:
> EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production). <<br />
I know manufacturers (and Product Managers ) like to make lists of what their products CAN do, versus what they CAN'T, and you did a great job of that with the initial post. But to avoid a gazillion questions about "can it do this and that", as well as assumptions some will make "I'm sure it will have Test Patterns", it might be a good idea to outline the boundaries for this new product more clearly, so that potential users can decide more easily if it fits their needs.

E.g., you could start with:
- no color management
- no test patterns
- no support for 768p plasmas
- limitations on preset adjustability
- etc.

Comments like Andre's about ancillary benefits, e.g. in spite of lacking 1:1 mapping, would also be very appropriate. Or, instead of making a list of NOT this and that, phrase it as a list of features that go beyond it's intended purpose (removes all the negative prefixes).

I don't see any reason why making the reasons more obvious why someone might prefer a VP-series product wouldn't be a good thing. While the Edge may be a fantastic product at a breakthough price, it's not going to be all things to all people, and avoiding a lot of speculation and disappointment should be a good thing. Otherwise, we're going to see the next 100 pages of discussion fill up fast.

- Tim

A great idea, and very well said.
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post #74 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production).


Thanks for the clarification Josh.

I have to say, it is one VERY nice looking processor and to say its fully loaded is an understatement!


Paul
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post #75 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

Anyone respond to the beta tester survey and get an out of office reply in their email inbox? (out of office until 7/28)

I just want to make sure it is definitely received as Jason's sticky indicates I will know something in about 3 days.

Yeah, I got one of those after beta signup, I sent an email to the edge beta email address and got a reply from the person who was "out of the office" saying that the auto-responder was not supposed to be on.
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post #76 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

Anyone respond to the beta tester survey and get an out of office reply in their email inbox? (out of office until 7/28)

I just want to make sure it is definitely received as Jason's sticky indicates I will know something in about 3 days.

I got the same out-of-office auto-reply messages from two different anchorbay email addresses. Hopefully, the completed survey was automatically emailed to multiple anchorbay folks.

John
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post #77 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 03:39 PM
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deleted because it was off topic
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post #78 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hothersale View Post

I really doubt this is going to happen because these signal types are not video standards like 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc.

The required signal timings for 1366x768 (for example) vary *a lot* between display manufacturers -- there is no one "1366x768 signal" that will work for everyone. (I made this mistake when I bought a VP20; it *looked* like it had the preset resolution I needed, but it didn't work with my display at all.)

By sticking to just the standard signal types, DVDO avoids this can of worms entirely.

Or may be not
Josh said it would apply prefered res in EDID.So EDID-emulators may work.
http://www.spatz-tech.com/spatz/hdmiwizard.htm
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post #79 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post

Josh wrote:
> EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production). <<br />
I know manufacturers (and Product Managers ) like to make lists of what their products CAN do, versus what they CAN'T, and you did a great job of that with the initial post. But to avoid a gazillion questions about "can it do this and that", as well as assumptions some will make "I'm sure it will have Test Patterns", it might be a good idea to outline the boundaries for this new product more clearly, so that potential users can decide more easily if it fits their needs.

E.g., you could start with:
- no color management
- no test patterns
- no support for 768p plasmas
- limitations on preset adjustability
- etc.

Comments like Andre's about ancillary benefits, e.g. in spite of lacking 1:1 mapping, would also be very appropriate. Or, instead of making a list of NOT this and that, phrase it as a list of features that go beyond it's intended purpose (removes all the negative prefixes).

I don't see any reason why making the reasons more obvious why someone might prefer a VP-series product wouldn't be a good thing. While the Edge may be a fantastic product at a breakthough price, it's not going to be all things to all people, and avoiding a lot of speculation and disappointment should be a good thing. Otherwise, we're going to see the next 100 pages of discussion fill up fast.

- Tim

^^ I definitely second this request, please.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #80 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

Anyone respond to the beta tester survey and get an out of office reply in their email inbox? (out of office until 7/28)

I just want to make sure it is definitely received as Jason's sticky indicates I will know something in about 3 days.

Your questionnaire was received and we will get back to you.

Josh Allen
DVDO Product Manager
Josh@DVDO.com
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post #81 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Per several requests I have added a PDF that compares EDGE to the VP50PRO and VP50 to the opening post of this thread.

Josh Allen
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post #82 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 08:00 PM
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Thanks Josh, that's very helpful.

So what are the differences between beta and production cosmetics/hardware?

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post #83 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

This can be accomplished using the input aspect ratio of EDGE but it is not as easy as it is on the VP50PRO which has specific features (Output Aspect Ratio controls for Display and Screen) which EDGE does not.

Thanks Josh
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post #84 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino AUS View Post

Thanks Josh, that's very helpful.

So what are the differences between beta and production cosmetics/hardware?

The hardware of the Beta units is exactly the same as production units. The chassis (cosmetics) of Beta units is different from production units in that the plastics on the front of the the production units will have a higher quality finish on them.

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post #85 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreYew View Post

You won't get 1:1 pixel mapping, so your display will be applying its own scaling on top of the EDGE's. But you still do benefit from what is probably the best deinterlacing in the world, as well as the MNR, cadence detection, etc. of the EDGE.

--Andre

thanks, i need to check out some of the other dvdo products i guess, it just seems that they may be out of my price range.
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post #86 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 08:39 PM
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i see that the dvdo vp20 supports 1024x768 under "pc resolutions," is this only through "pc" inputs or will it output this through hdmi?
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post #87 of 7106 Old 07-22-2008, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_james View Post

i see that the dvdo vp20 supports 1024x768 under "pc resolutions," is this only through "pc" inputs or will it output this through hdmi?

This is supported on both analog and digital, HDMI, outputs.

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post #88 of 7106 Old 07-23-2008, 02:30 AM
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> Per several requests I have added a PDF that compares EDGE to the VP50PRO and VP50 <<br />
Thanks for the quick response on that, Josh.

- Tim

- Tim
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post #89 of 7106 Old 07-23-2008, 05:59 AM
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Comparison PDF is nice. It shows how serious DVDO is about the performance of The Edge. Still though, you can see where it is not for the serious VP crowd. I still would really like to put one in my set up and see just how well it performs with my vast assortment of components...

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post #90 of 7106 Old 07-23-2008, 06:42 AM
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DVDO did receive quite a few inquiries. Not sure why the autoreply, but if anyone is concerned, feel free to email me at jason@avscience.com and I can confirm that you are on the list.

Thanks!
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