CMS for VP50 Pro coming? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 216 Old 01-01-2009, 03:17 PM
Senior Member
 
reg152's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Red Lion, PA, USA
Posts: 447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Guys, sounds like the CMS is in development. I email'd DVDO and here is the response I received from Ken...

Hi Ryan,

Thank you for your email and I apologize for the late response.
We are still developing CMS for the VP50PRO. I do not have any specific timeline for completion.

Thanks and regards,
Ken Nguyen
National Sales & Support
Phone (408) 395-4455 ext. 226
Fax (408) 395-1579
ken@anchorbaytech.com
Anchor Bay Technologies
www.anchorbaytech.com
Home of DVDO and VRS

Currently programming my Pronto TSU9600....I think I need some Tylenol.

Now Featuring the Klipsch THX Ultra2 System (Quad KW-120's)
Integra DTC 9.8 / Emotiva MPS-1
reg152 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 216 Old 01-01-2009, 03:19 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
jackox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: France
Posts: 633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Cool !
I knew I was right to keep the VP50Pro longside the EDGE !
jackox is offline  
post #93 of 216 Old 01-01-2009, 05:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
fastl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston
Posts: 589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 11
... Interesting - I've never heard of chroma ringing. Do you have an example ....

Most noticeable where you have a solid background color with white lettering in foreground. Typically during screen titling. You will see a halo around the lettering, which sort of looks like a faint echo of the lettering. Some DVDs exhibit it noticeably ... some not at all. I recall that Joe Kane made a similar comment regarding Blu-Ray quirks in a Widescreen Review article. Don't remember the date.
fastl is offline  
post #94 of 216 Old 01-01-2009, 06:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dave G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

... Interesting - I've never heard of chroma ringing. Do you have an example ....

Most noticeable where you have a solid background color with white lettering in foreground. Typically during screen titling. You will see a halo around the lettering, which sort of looks like a faint echo of the lettering. Some DVDs exhibit it noticeably ... some not at all. I recall that Joe Kane made a similar comment regarding Blu-Ray quirks in a Widescreen Review article. Don't remember the date.

That sounds a lot like edge enhancement.
Dave G is offline  
post #95 of 216 Old 01-01-2009, 08:04 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
are you talking about y/c delays?

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #96 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 01:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Oliver Klohs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hi,

this is a very interesting debate and I would like to address a few points:

1. Regarding lacking SDI/HD-SDI and RGBHV in- and outputs: Lumagen is a highly priced product compared to even the top end DVDO units and as far as street prices go might even be more expensive than the Crystalio offerings so it will always be compared to these that have both this connection options. Lumagen also does keep their products up to date longer and has a history of providing at least an option for SDI inputs and analog outputs with their lesser processors that is now gone for their highest priced processor - makes no sense to me. So the Radiance will always be compared to both older Lumagen units and to the other two manufacturers' products and it it the only processor in this little niche market not to offer said functionality, not even as an upgrade. Bad decision imo and I have said that from the start. I know about a dozen CRT people who now have DVDO and Crystalio because of the combined SDI/RGBHV issues and I think that many would have gone with the Radiance if it had offered said connections, but of course I am talking about a nice within a niche

2. Players with unmolested HDMI output: The new Pioneer players have a source direct mode that looks very nice and that can be set to have zero ringing and very nice color decoding from my tests, they can also be set to output only 422 - tested with the Pioneer 51 FD. No problems outputting whatever is on the disc including 576i and 480i. There is also an HD-SDI mod available for this one but I live in Europe and have to pay about triple for a player that has that implemented comparing to what I have to pay for a normal unit - too bad or I might be inclined to test HD-SDI vs HDMI. To sum things up: To my knowledge the Pioneer players are the first players to offer such a source direct mode for HDMI that is implemented correctly and they should be commended for it, how about trying one out Glimmie ?

3. Glimmie is right that there are issues with analog inputs to the Lumagen, I am currently using my Radiance with a Holo 3D card because of it. I have contacted Lumagen about this issue but not heard back from them with regard to doing something about this, maybe I am the only one to complain ? In a nutshell the analog inputs seriously underperformed in my tests with SD inputs and seem to have too much, not too little filtering which affects fine detail and gives the image a soft and at the same time processed look, not very nice. Ringing was not really what I thought to be the biggest problem with this though, it was the pastyness and lack of detail in the picture that seemed so wrong that I now use the Holo card and feed the Radiance a 576p pr 480p signal from it, the Radiance then does the upscaling and also adjusts for shifted chroma with the Holo. In my tests I have compared the Radiance against a few other solutions with an higher end Muse LD-Player with normal LD's (don't laugh, what else would I want to feed analog, as Glimmie still did not mod my LD-Player to digital output ) and broadcast TV and the other solutions all had certain advantages over the Radiance.

The HDMI inputs do not have these issues though and I guess that is why most users do not complain much, the Radiance is indeed very powerful with HDMI sources, as soon as it is fed digital most is well, just don't use analog if you want an unmolested signal- there is no option for this (yet).

4. The scaling via HDMI for 480/576i and p sources is second to none with the Radiance and outshines all other offerings I have tested including the VP50 - no doubt about it and one of the reasons I use the Radiance.

As I said I currently use the Radiance with a Holo 3D PC attached for analog sources - it is the best out of both worlds for me at the moment

Oliver
Oliver Klohs is online now  
post #97 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 07:51 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 25,145
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

HDMI is a superb signal-transmission standard, which is why all of the connections between equipment in the studios where they master DVDs and Blu-ray disks are all done using HDMI.

Oh, wait. Actually, all of the connections are done using SD-SDI and HD-SDI.

It's only when the signal gets out to the end user that HDMI is inflicted on them.

We have a DVD player with SD-SDI out, a Blu-ray player with HD-SDI out, and (by the end of next week) a scaler with two SD-SDI/HD-SDI inputs. The goal is to provide the scaler with the cleanest video signal possible, and then drive the display in source-direct mode from the scaler to avoid having the display "help" with the signal.

A goal is a good thing to have, but some "see" SDI in the 1080p source era as a lot of extra expense to achieve very little, if any, perceptible improvement. It made/makes sense for SD-DVD, but not for progressive 1920x1080 sources.

Can anyone point to any double-blind tests comparing 1080p via HDMI to it via HD-SDI? Or is this one of those things in A/V that is accepted on blind faith with the cognoscenti huffing and puffing when challenged?
pepar is online now  
post #98 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 08:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
fastl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston
Posts: 589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Dave: that's what prompted me to say ... "some DVDs have what looks a lot of "chroma ringing" in them. Whether this is caused by poor MPEG encoding or by misapplied EE during the mastering stage, is a mystery to me. Maybe someone in the business could comment." Probably what Glimmie was referring to in his EE comments.

Gary: don't think it is y/c delay since that wouldn't cause a halo like effect surrounding the object. Don't have this adjustment on my VP, anyway.

Most processing boxes use oversampled A/D conversion on their CAV inputs. Oversampling requires decimation (FIR filtering) to reduce the sampling bitrate to the line rate. Filtering is always going to effect the transient response, causing some sort of edge aberation. The only recourse is to use 1X sampling, but then you have to carefully set the sampling clock phase. That's one of the reasons for the move to oversampling conversion.
fastl is offline  
post #99 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 11:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

Most processing boxes use oversampled A/D conversion on their CAV inputs. Oversampling requires decimation (FIR filtering) to reduce the sampling bitrate to the line rate. Filtering is always going to effect the transient response, causing some sort of edge aberation. The only recourse is to use 1X sampling, but then you have to carefully set the sampling clock phase. That's one of the reasons for the move to oversampling conversion.

Another reason is they can lose or greatly simply the analog filtering prior to the ADC. Then get rid of the nyquest problems on the digital side which is far cheaper than analog filter components. Back when I started in the business an 8 bit 15mhz ADC chip cost $700, was a 64pin DIP package, and burned up a few watts - The TRW TDC1007? Today a 12bit 300mhz ADC can be bought for pennies in quanity!

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is offline  
post #100 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 11:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Hi,

this is a very interesting debate and I would like to address a few points:


2. Players with unmolested HDMI output: The new Pioneer players have a source direct mode that looks very nice and that can be set to have zero ringing and very nice color decoding from my tests, they can also be set to output only 422 - tested with the Pioneer 51 FD. No problems outputting whatever is on the disc including 576i and 480i. There is also an HD-SDI mod available for this one but I live in Europe and have to pay about triple for a player that has that implemented comparing to what I have to pay for a normal unit - too bad or I might be inclined to test HD-SDI vs HDMI. To sum things up: To my knowledge the Pioneer players are the first players to offer such a source direct mode for HDMI that is implemented correctly and they should be commended for it, how about trying one out Glimmie ?

Well I have one, a Pioneer 05FD which is the Elite version of the 51. In fact I waited until it came out before I got into BluRay. I didn't realize it did output 480i but I still will only use it for BluRay.

I send my SDI Panasoinc RP56 through a 1997 vintage Digital Vision DVNR box. This is an advanced noise and scratch elimenation box with a very good enhancer. It also has a very good dedicated NTSC dot crawl filter. It's SD only so they can be rescued from EWASTE piles in Hollywood. Most facilities have upgraded to the HD versions which does SD too. It really brings out the best in SD DVD - especially DVDs that were made from 1 inch NTSC tape where no film re-transfer is an option. So here even virgin 480i HDMI is not usefull to me.

Now I do feed the Pioneer BluRay HDMI into the VP50pro and I have no intention of going HDSDI here. I will only revert to HDSDI where needed as a virgin HDMI signal is just as good - IMO. But to be a usable HDMI, it must not do any internal procesing such as 444 conversion or I to P conversion. When I play a 1080i/60 BluRay, I want 1080i/60 on the HDMI output and not some half baked 1080/60P done inside the player. Otherwise what's the point of a dedicated scaler?

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is offline  
post #101 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 01:23 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

. I know about a dozen CRT people who now have DVDO and Crystalio because of the combined SDI/RGBHV issues and I think that many would have gone with the Radiance if it had offered said connections, but of course I am talking about a nice within a niche

that makes 2 of us, wonder how many others know a dozen people who would have went with a Radiance had it had RGBHV and SDI

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #102 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 01:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

A goal is a good thing to have, but some "see" SDI in the 1080p source era as a lot of extra expense to achieve very little, if any, perceptible improvement. It made/makes sense for SD-DVD, but not for progressive 1920x1080 sources.

Can anyone point to any double-blind tests comparing 1080p via HDMI to it via HD-SDI? Or is this one of those things in A/V that is accepted on blind faith with the cognoscenti huffing and puffing when challenged?

I don't understand the logic behind this

SDI means something for DVD
HD-SDI doesn't mean anything for Blu-ray/HD-DVD



there have been many of us compare 480i 4:2:2 HDMI to 480i 4:2:2 SDI and the SDI has always won, I will be the first to admit the difference between HD-SDI and HDMI on a great high-end player like the Pioneer 05FD is very very small, but those that use high-end scaler/CRT projector systems, blends etc. and are videophiles will notice the slight difference

in addition you get HDCP out of the equation and free up HDMI for audio only usage

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #103 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 02:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dave G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

that makes 2 of us, wonder how many others know a dozen people who would have went with a Radiance had it had RGBHV and SDI

-Gary

I'm sure gazillions. Clearly Lumagen are freaking idiots that they even abandoned the idea of producing an sdi to hdmi box. Because the demand was non-existent, but nevermind the details. As hogpilot says - stop pretending your anecdotal experience extends to the overall market. It. Does. Not.

Gary - what exactly do you want? You have the vp50pro, a fine piece of equipment which apparently does everything you need it to do, since CMS is so completely unnecessary for CRT projectors - according to you anyway. So why do you even care about the XD? (And btw, the lack of rgbvh output is a fallacy, since hdmi input cards are widely available from Curt/Moome.) Or why do you even care if the dvdo gets a CMS?

Quote:


HD-SDI doesn't mean anything for Blu-ray/HD-DVD (...) I will be the first to admit the difference between HD-SDI and HDMI on a great high-end player like the Pioneer 05FD is very very small, but those that use high-end scaler/CRT projector systems, blends etc. and are videophiles will notice the slight difference

Congratulations! You've managed to contradict yourself in the span of two consecutive sentences.
Dave G is offline  
post #104 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 02:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dave G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

in addition you get HDCP out of the equation

I'll give you this one. hdcp is a steaming, putrid pile of crap.
Dave G is offline  
post #105 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 02:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Oliver Klohs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Well I have one, a Pioneer 05FD which is the Elite version of the 51. In fact I waited until it came out before I got into BluRay. I didn't realize it did output 480i but I still will only use it for BluRay.

I send my SDI Panasoinc RP56 through a 1997 vintage Digital Vision DVNR box. This is an advanced noise and scratch elimenation box with a very good enhancer. It also has a very good dedicated NTSC dot crawl filter. It's SD only so they can be rescued from EWASTE piles in Hollywood. Most facilities have upgraded to the HD versions which does SD too. It really brings out the best in SD DVD - especially DVDs that were made from 1 inch NTSC tape where no film re-transfer is an option. So here even virgin 480i HDMI is not usefull to me.

Now I do feed the Pioneer BluRay HDMI into the VP50pro and I have no intention of going HDSDI here. I will only revert to HDSDI where needed as a virgin HDMI signal is just as good - IMO. But to be a usable HDMI, it must not do any internal procesing such as 444 conversion or I to P conversion. When I play a 1080i/60 BluRay, I want 1080i/60 on the HDMI output and not some half baked 1080/60P done inside the player. Otherwise what's the point of a dedicated scaler?

So you already have the right player, you might at least try what it does for good DVD's or with test patterns.

I have checked and looked at 480i, 576i, 1080i and 1080p 24 and it was all output at 422 and the best thing is that in source direct mode it automatically switched to the resolution of the inserted media

That box sounds interesting, especially the part where you can find it for free in EWATE piles
Oliver Klohs is online now  
post #106 of 216 Old 01-02-2009, 02:46 PM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 25,145
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

I don't understand the logic behind this

SDI means something for DVD
HD-SDI doesn't mean anything for Blu-ray/HD-DVD

there have been many of us compare 480i 4:2:2 HDMI to 480i 4:2:2 SDI and the SDI has always won, I will be the first to admit the difference between HD-SDI and HDMI on a great high-end player like the Pioneer 05FD is very very small, but those that use high-end scaler/CRT projector systems, blends etc. and are videophiles will notice the slight difference

in addition you get HDCP out of the equation and free up HDMI for audio only usage

-Gary

Maybe my entire premise was wrong. Are people SDI-modding Blu-ray players?
pepar is online now  
post #107 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 11:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mdrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Maybe my entire premise was wrong. Are people SDI-modding Blu-ray players?

That what Gary does. SDI mods (and other things). I'm using one of his SDI Oppo 981's.
mdrew is offline  
post #108 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 11:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sfogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ma, USA
Posts: 5,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Gary,

"there have been many of us compare 480i 4:2:2 HDMI to 480i 4:2:2 SDI and the SDI has always won"

No, it hasn't *always* won.

Shawn
sfogg is offline  
post #109 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 12:23 PM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 25,145
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrew View Post

That what Gary does. SDI mods (and other things). I'm using one of his SDI Oppo 981's.

SDI mods on HD-DVD or Blu-ray players??
pepar is online now  
post #110 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 01:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sfogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ma, USA
Posts: 5,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
"SDI mods on HD-DVD or Blu-ray players??"

HD-SDI.

Shawn
sfogg is offline  
post #111 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 05:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post




Congratulations! You've managed to contradict yourself in the span of two consecutive sentences.

WTF are you talking about?

you are taking my posts and twisting them to try and catch me up in something

I was paraphrasing pepar and him saying HD-SDI doesn't mean anything for Blu-Ray, that was not me saying that, it was him

you say according to me CRT doesn't need CMS(again implying something)maybe you are not up on CRT projection either, check out this Marquee 9500LC color:



you would be better served addressing this discussion(and maybe actually reading my posts) than putting things in my mouth that I didn't say

lastly concerning RGBHV output and you saying that is a fallacy , I have to just laugh, you obviously aren't up on the CRT or professional world

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #112 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 05:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Gary,

"there have been many of us compare 480i 4:2:2 HDMI to 480i 4:2:2 SDI and the SDI has always won"

No, it hasn't *always* won.

Shawn

actually it has, please tell me where someone preferred HDMI over SDI? or are you saying they have tied?

I'll give you one good example, many claim the Pioneer DV79avi and its 4:2:2 480i output to be 100% equal to SDI on the same player, problem is they aren't, the HDMI output has y/c delay issues and pixel cropping to name a few

if someone wants to tick off the great 4:2:2 480i HDMI players I can comment on some of them

there is also tons of info over in AVforums in the UK, comparing 480i via SDI and HDMI

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #113 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 05:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sfogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ma, USA
Posts: 5,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Gary,

"check out this Marquee 9500LC color:"

You need to show all three coordinates for the colors, your graph is only showing 2 of the 3.

"please tell me where someone preferred HDMI over SDI? or are you saying they have tied?"

Tied. Tied is not the same thing as SDI always winning. The problem with talking in absolutes like 'always' is only one example makes the whole statement false.

Here is an example from another forum....


"To be honest, I had a modded OPPO unit which an AVS member was selling (he performed the mod himself). I compared the OPPO 980 480i via HDMI vs the OPPO SDI mod unit running both through a scaler (from a company which shall not be named Wink) and did not see the difference on a 110" screen."

Shawn
sfogg is offline  
post #114 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 05:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Maybe my entire premise was wrong. Are people SDI-modding Blu-ray players?

some blu-ray players do have SDI output capability when HD-SDI modified, like the Pioneers, insert a DVD and the SDI output goes into 480i SDI, insert a blu-ray film and the output goes to 1080p/24 HD-SDI

I have never been fond of the 480i SDI from blu-ray players though, the decoders just don't equal the classic SDI players like the Panny RP91, Philips 963a, Denon 2900 etc.

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #115 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 05:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post


Here is an example from another forum....


"To be honest, I had a modded OPPO unit which an AVS member was selling (he performed the mod himself). I compared the OPPO 980 480i via HDMI vs the OPPO SDI mod unit running both through a scaler (from a company which shall not be named Wink) and did not see the difference on a 110" screen."

Shawn

well always is probably a harsh word and while I appreciate the experience and opinion from whomever that was I don't entirely agree, I have found the Oppo 980 4:2:2 480i HDMI to be the closest thing to SDI there is, but we can't compare on the player because the 980 can't be SDI modified, the closest we got is the 981 via SDI, offhand I don't remember if the 980 and 981 use the same mediatek decoder

I have used a 980 alot and it is a wonderful 480i feed but my Yamaha CX1 via SDI is easily better

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #116 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 05:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Gary,

"check out this Marquee 9500LC color:"

You need to show all three coordinates for the colors, your graph is only showing 2 of the 3.

Shawn

those results are from Craig Rounds, you can question him as this is not mine:

http://www.cir-engineering.com/

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #117 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 05:30 PM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 25,145
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

some blu-ray players do have SDI output capability when HD-SDI modified, like the Pioneers, insert a DVD and the SDI output goes into 480i SDI, insert a blu-ray film and the output goes to 1080p/24 HD-SDI

I have never been fond of the 480i SDI from blu-ray players though, the decoders just don't equal the classic SDI players like the Panny RP91, Philips 963a, Denon 2900 etc.

-Gary

No doubt about it, Gary, you are a True Believer. And I have no doubt that you prefer SDI to HDMI. And I'd even accept that you can identify it, oh maybe, 4 out of 5 times in a double-blind test. But to many it seems like expending a lot of energy and money to chase the smallest of incremental improvements.

Now how did this "CMS for VP50 Pro coming?" thread get off onto this?
pepar is online now  
post #118 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 05:35 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Gary Murrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 10,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

No doubt about it, Gary, you are a True Believer. And I have no doubt that you prefer SDI to HDMI. And I'd even accept that you can identify it, oh maybe, 4 out of 5 times in a double-blind test. But to many it seems like expending a lot of energy and money to chase the smallest of incremental improvements.

Now how did this "CMS for VP50 Pro coming?" thread get off onto this?

no problem with that, HD-SDI is for video freaks that demand that last extra 1% and get excited about it and don't care to pay for it

lets do get back to CMS for the pro, although I would rather see point greyscale and gamma at this time

-Gary
Gary Murrell is offline  
post #119 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 06:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dave G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 949
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

I was paraphrasing pepar and him saying HD-SDI doesn't mean anything for Blu-Ray, that was not me saying that, it was him

My bad - but then that double blind test shouldn't be an issue, right?

Quote:
you say according to me CRT doesn't need CMS(again implying something)maybe you are not up on CRT projection either, check out this Marquee 9500LC color:

Your words, not mine:

Quote:
Dave, not all systems need CMS, 11 point gamma and greyscale, high-end CRT systems certainly don't in most cases, colors are nearly spot on with color filtering, greyscales usually come out quite well

Anyhoo.

To be honest, looking at dvdo's track record re: firmware updates, I have to revisit my statement above. Lumagen sweated blood and tears to get a working CMS going (a real one, with independent adjustments in all corners of the cube). They might kick it up a notch by allowing correction at different % stim points (current recommended workflow is to adjust at 100% stim, they would add 75, 50 and 25%) and more importantly direct adjustment of luma (as opposed to 'getting there' by tweaking the RGB values) - I seriously doubt we'll see something from dvdo approaching this level of functionality anytime soon.

Slightly off topic, but FWIW: I reported a bug to Lumagen on Tuesday. The issue was triggered by my slightly unusual setup. I sent my config file and a new firmware which fixes the issue was up yesterday (Friday). Probably would have gotten it Thursday if it weren't for new year/new year's eve. We can argue for/against CMS/sdi/what have you, but in the end that level of support trumps pretty much everything else in my books.
Dave G is offline  
post #120 of 216 Old 01-03-2009, 07:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sfogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ma, USA
Posts: 5,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Gary,

"no problem with that, HD-SDI is for video freaks that demand that last extra 1% and get excited about it and don't care to pay for it

lets do get back to CMS for the pro, although I would rather see point greyscale and gamma at this time "

For those that need it a CMS will give *far* more then a 1% improvement....













Shawn
sfogg is offline  
Reply Video Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off