Best comb filter EVER? C2? Holo? Entech? Put on your gloves! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 198 Old 10-26-2009, 11:51 AM
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Damn, some else got it. It said $169 buy it now. Now it says sold for $70, I would have jumped at it for that price.
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post #32 of 198 Old 11-06-2009, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre View Post

Damn, some else got it. It said $169 buy it now. Now it says sold for $70, I would have jumped at it for that price.

I live in Minneapolis, and a guy here locally on craigslist is selling an SVSI-1 for $80. If he won't ship it to you, I can get it and ship it to you. I would just ask that you pay for the unit and the shipping to Canada.

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post #33 of 198 Old 11-06-2009, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

So as far as direct comparisons, here is the rundown with subjective processor quality descending. Remember--we're only talking comb filters here! There are wonderful processors with mediocre comb filters.

GROUP ONE

  1. - Crystalio II using TI-TVP5160 (2005?)
  2. - Holo3DGraph II using SAA7118 (2001?)
  3. - Entech's SVSI-1 or CVSI-1


--------------------------

GROUP TWO

  1. -Key Digital HD Leeza
  2. -Crystal Vision VPS-1
  3. -Faroudja VS50 (1999)
  4. -Faroudja VP-100 (1997)
  5. -Audio Alchemy Visual Reality Engine (VRE)


--------------------------

Not yet worked into the picture:

- Kramer FC-4044
- Lumagen HDQ and Radiance
- DVDO EDGE and VP50 pro
- others?


I have a Crystal Vision VPS-1, and it's well known that it is a far superior 2D comb filter than the Faroudja VP-100.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...talvision.html

I'm very happy with my VPS-1 for my various LD-to-DVD transfer projects. What makes you think that the Entech SVSI-1 is any better than the Crystal Vision VPS-1?

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post #34 of 198 Old 11-06-2009, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

I live in Minneapolis, and a guy here locally on craigslist is selling an SVSI-1 for $80. If he won't ship it to you, I can get it and ship it to you. I would just ask that you pay for the unit and the shipping to Canada.

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Thank you very much, I have e-mailed them.
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post #35 of 198 Old 11-06-2009, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre View Post

Thank you very much, I have e-mailed them.

Yep. He tells me you contacted him. I just hope that I can borrow it from him before anyone buys it, just so I can do an A/B comparison between it and my Crystal Vision VPS-1.

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post #36 of 198 Old 11-06-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

Yep. He tells me you contacted him. I just hope that I can borrow it from him before anyone buys it, just so I can do an A/B comparison between it and my Crystal Vision VPS-1.

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Did he mention if he will sell it to me? I also have a US address that I can get it to.
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post #37 of 198 Old 11-06-2009, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre View Post

Did he mention if he will sell it to me? I also have a US address that I can get it to.

Other than "your friend from Canda contacted me," he hasn't said anything about it.

You are my friend, right?

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post #38 of 198 Old 11-06-2009, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

I have a Crystal Vision VPS-1, and it's well known that it is a far superior 2D comb filter than the Faroudja VP-100.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...talvision.html

I'm very happy with my VPS-1 for my various LD-to-DVD transfer projects. What makes you think that the Entech SVSI-1 is any better than the Crystal Vision VPS-1?

Man, I knew I should have called those group A and B instead of one and two!

Group one is not "above" group two. I wanted to rank comb filters on a head-to-head basis. Group one is simply a collection of processors that people have compared directly with one another. Group two is the same.

As I have not had anyone chime in and say that the Crystal is better than the Entech, Holo3DGraph or Crystalio it resides in the second list, where I have had people rank it above the VP-100 but below the Leeza.

I'm very much open to changing the rankings--my hope with this thread was to generate discussion around which is better, at least comb filter-wise. It seems to have done that.
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post #39 of 198 Old 11-06-2009, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

Man, I knew I should have called those group A and B instead of one and two!

Group one is not "above" group two. I wanted to rank comb filters on a head-to-head basis. Group one is simply a collection of processors that people have compared directly with one another. Group two is the same.

Aha. Okay. That makes sense.

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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

As I have not had anyone chime in and say that the Crystal is better than the Entech, Holo3DGraph or Crystalio it resides in the second list, where I have had people rank it above the VP-100 but below the Leeza..

Interesting. Well, I will have an Entech SVSI-1 in hand tomorrow as a loaner to compare with my Crystal Vision VPS-1. I can do some screen captures to do the comparison. I'm thinking of the Video Essentials LD and maybe a movie LD (any suggestions?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

I'm very much open to changing the rankings--my hope with this thread was to generate discussion around which is better, at least comb filter-wise. It seems to have done that.

I hope to contribute to a crossover comparison between an external comb filter from GROUP ONE and one from GROUP TWO soon!

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post #40 of 198 Old 11-07-2009, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

I can do some screen captures to do the comparison. I'm thinking of the Video Essentials LD and maybe a movie LD (any suggestions?)

I've heard that Goldeneye can be a good test disc for white smearing...
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post #41 of 198 Old 11-07-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

I've heard that Goldeneye can be a good test disc for white smearing...


but the white smearing issue has nothing to do with comb filter performance.

try some test patterns from the Video Essentials disc.


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post #42 of 198 Old 11-07-2009, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

I've heard that Goldeneye can be a good test disc for white smearing...

I concede already that my LD-S2 smears the part where Sean Bean (006) points his gun in Bond's face at the beginning of the movie, although it's not nearly as bad as it is on my CLD-79.

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post #43 of 198 Old 11-07-2009, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

GROUP ONE

  1. - Crystalio II using TI-TVP5160 (2005?)
  2. - Holo3DGraph II using SAA7118 (2001?)
  3. - Entech's SVSI-1 or CVSI-1


--------------------------

GROUP TWO

  1. -Key Digital HD Leeza
  2. -Crystal Vision VPS-1
  3. -Faroudja VS50 (1999)
  4. -Faroudja VP-100 (1997)
  5. -Audio Alchemy Visual Reality Engine (VRE)


--------------------------

Not yet worked into the picture:

- Kramer FC-4044
- Lumagen HDQ and Radiance
- DVDO EDGE and VP50 pro
- others?


I captured the same frame from the Video Essentials LD with my LD-S2 -- the Snell and Wilcox test pattern. From my point of view, my s-video capture looks the best to me, followed by the VPS-1, followed by the SVSI-1, and then the composite output last. Naturally, this is all just my opinion. You are welcome to post yours.

TLK

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LL
LL
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post #44 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 02:21 AM
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this is the same image from a Pioneer X-0 using the S-Video output.

Michael
LL
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post #45 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by nidi View Post

this is the same image from a Pioneer X-0 using the S-Video output.

Now, THAT's impressive, indeed.

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post #46 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 06:13 AM
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I still don't know why we are still looking for a better comb filter

than the one in the Pioneer HLD-X0.

all other 2D designs I had my hands on were crap, and now that I

have seen the VPS-1's screenshot of the S&W test pattern , I can say that it's in the same league as the other 2D filters


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post #47 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

I still don't know why we are still looking for a better comb filter

than the one in the Pioneer HLD-X0.

Because not all of us have the financial resources to purchase an X0?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

all other 2D designs I had my hands on were crap,

What other 2D comb filters have you tested?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

and now that I

have seen the VPS-1's screenshot of the S&W test pattern , I can say that it's in the same league as the other 2D filters

Well, that was pleasant.

I'm going to be testing the comb filter in the Faroudja NRS scaler with my LD-S2 within the coming week. I'll report my findings then.

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post #48 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

I still don't know why we are still looking for a better comb filter

than the one in the Pioneer HLD-X0.

all other 2D designs I had my hands on were crap, and now that I

have seen the VPS-1's screenshot of the S&W test pattern , I can say that it's in the same league as the other 2D filters


Michael

Perhaps I should change the thread title to denote a ranking of sorts. I believe the X0 is the best LD comb filter--that has probably been firmly established by this point.

I would like to continue to contribute to this thread and rank the remaining comb filters--external that is. I can't run my NES through an X0.
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post #49 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 09:09 AM
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I can't run my NES through an X0

but you can have it RGB-modded and stop looking for a comb filter for a videogame system

I can contribute some pictures of my HLD-X9 with and without a CVSI-1 in the chain...

















CF = comb filter setting (normal, color wide & high resolution).
The combination of the S-Video output plus the CVSI-1 allows the connection to a Mosquito or Flea which is very nice for a realtime noise reduction during capturing.


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post #50 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 10:32 AM
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I can contribute some pictures of my HLD-X9 with and without a CVSI-1 in the chain...

Very nice. I am now a believer in the comb filters for both the X9 and the X0. Wow.

So, essentially, your CVSI-1 is just an adapter for your X9 to output component video, it would seem.

Just so I have the right test pattern and it wasn't a demo of crappy NTSC, you got your screen caps from chapter 15 of the Video Essentials LD, right?

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post #51 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 11:35 AM
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So, essentially, your CVSI-1 is just an adapter for your X9 to output component video, it would seem.

I also use it for VHS capture and it works very nice there. Very noticeable difference between direct composite and processed picture over there.

Quote:


Just so I have the right test pattern and it wasn't a demo of crappy NTSC, you got your screen caps from chapter 15 of the Video Essentials LD, right?

yes, live, just about 15 minutes before I posted the pictures.


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post #52 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 11:39 AM
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Just for the record: If you search for some LD threads from a few years back on this board, I believe it was common sense that the X0 had the best composite output while the X9 had the best S-Video. Feeding a SVSI or CVSI-1 with composite from a X0 should result in a better picture that what the 5th picture from above shows. Judging from nidi's earlier test pics (different thread) the X0's (and of course the X9's ) S-Video output is still sharper though.


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post #53 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

but you can have it RGB-modded and stop looking for a comb filter for a videogame system


CF = comb filter setting (normal, color wide & high resolution).
The combination of the S-Video output plus the CVSI-1 allows the connection to a Mosquito or Flea which is very nice for a realtime noise reduction during capturing.

So Fudoh,

did you use the Mosquito in the chain for the test patterns ?

did you do any sharpening ?


Thanks

Michael
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post #54 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 12:36 PM
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Hey Michael,

the above screen captures are 100% raw. No sharpening whatsoever and no Algolith Mosquito in the chain. I even used a quite crappy selfmade S-Video to 2x BNC cable.

Y & C NR within the LD player were set to 3 of 8 each (but honestly I couldn't spot a difference). Y/C seperation was set to 7 of 8 (except for HR which doesn't allow a manual Y/C setting).


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post #55 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

Hey Michael,

the above screen captures are 100% raw. No sharpening whatsoever and no Algolith Mosquito in the chain. I even used a quite crappy selfmade S-Video to 2x BNC cable.

Y & C NR within the LD player were set to 3 of 8 each (but honestly I couldn't spot a difference). Y/C seperation was set to 7 of 8 (except for HR which doesn't allow a manual Y/C setting).


I'm just asking because some frequencies look like artificially enhanced.

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post #56 of 198 Old 11-08-2009, 02:22 PM
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There's still a chance that the capture device makes a difference after all. The sequences were captured uncompressed on a Blackmagic Multibridge.


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post #57 of 198 Old 11-09-2009, 08:06 PM
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Other than "your friend from Canda contacted me," he hasn't said anything about it.

You are my friend, right?

TLK

I just paid him today, $106 USD shipped to Canada. Sweet! Thanks so much TLK (my friend!)
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post #58 of 198 Old 11-09-2009, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

but you can have it RGB-modded and stop looking for a comb filter for a videogame system

And if I could find someone in Canada who was actually willing to perform mods that don't end in "chip" I'd be in business!

The NES might be a bit of lie. I don't think I'd pay to have it modded even if I had the chance. Virtual Console actually works pretty well run @ 240p through the XRGB2+.

Thanks for the screen-grabs. I think you have the best setup for this type of comparison. The Blackmagic might be adding something, but that would be equal across the board. Should be a fair comparison.
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post #59 of 198 Old 11-09-2009, 09:09 PM
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I just paid him today, $106 USD shipped to Canada. Sweet! Thanks so much TLK (my friend!)

Don't expect him to send it to you immediately. I'm still in possession of it! I'll try to get it back to him ASAP, though.

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post #60 of 198 Old 11-09-2009, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lizard King View Post

I captured the same frame from the Video Essentials LD with my LD-S2 -- the Snell and Wilcox test pattern. From my point of view, my s-video capture looks the best to me, followed by the VPS-1, followed by the SVSI-1, and then the composite output last.

Thanks for your post. I took both the SVSI-1 and VPS-1 shots into photoshop and applied a difference matte. There really isn't much difference between them at all to my eyes. Zooming in to 800% and toggling the images back and forth revealed little, other than the way they seem to handle cross-talk.

Without seeing these in motion, I think I might lean the way of the SVSI-1 myself. I'd call it a draw for the time being. I'd love for others to chime in. There has to be a set of eyes here that can make a definitive call...
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