Best comb filter EVER? C2? Holo? Entech? Put on your gloves! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Video Processors > Best comb filter EVER? C2? Holo? Entech? Put on your gloves!
matumba's Avatar matumba 03:50 AM 12-29-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post


Unfortunately the LX70's HDMI output is HDCP protected at all times. Still the component output has great quality and allows me to feed the signal into an analogue Algolith Mosquito.

Fudoh, why the HDCP protection is relevant when you want to output to HDMI an originally analog signal? I assumed that a DVR would digitize and then encrypt the digital signal specifically for outputting it to an HDCP compatible device.

Also do you have an idea if there is a considerable difference between LX60/61 and LX70 in terms of composite>component or composite>hdmi PQ? I have spent hours searching and the only difference besides the disk size that I found was in the *video* DAC width (12bit vs 14bit). And I have no idea where the video DAC width is important (as opposed to ADC). Thank you.

Fudoh's Avatar Fudoh 05:23 AM 12-29-2012
HDCP is not relevant and it's not required by any means, BUT the Pioneer encrypts it's HDMI signal output, no matter what the source is, so you can't use the HDMI output for capturing without further hardware.

I don't know if there's any visible difference between the LX70 and LX60/61, sorry.
Glimmie's Avatar Glimmie 05:43 PM 01-03-2013
Poineer and other manufactures often exceed the HDCP requirements. It's either a cost issue, or just playing it safe. For example my Pioneer BluRay shuts off the composite and Svideo with using HDMI. Why? HDCP allows SD resolution on analog outputs at any time. Most people would not care but I use the composite and Svideo outputs for monitoring and to feed the video window on my audio analysis software. They should not be disabled under HDCP but the manufacture is free to do so if they wish.
dokworm's Avatar dokworm 06:32 PM 01-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post

hey balboarules

I remember seeing a pioneer dvd-r machine at your place when I stopped by to pick up the C2. You said you didnt like the picture.

I agree with your results. C2 brings my LD picture near DVD. I have 2 squeezed LDs, those match DVD resolution. C2 is an amazing machine. If only it had HDMI 1.3, it would still rule the VP market.

I have tried the entech, dvdo vp30 abt102, faroudja nrs, 3d cf in my pioneer plasma, C2 was better than those by margin. Pio plasma was good but deinterlacing was poor.Also tried analog devices design 3d cf in my yamaha and denon receivers.

btw balboarules knows what he is talking. I have personaly seen him test all of those equipment

I have the CII but am unhappy with the results. Care to share your settings as I think I am doing something wrong.
dokworm's Avatar dokworm 07:10 PM 01-15-2013
dokworm's Avatar dokworm 07:13 PM 01-15-2013
Any idea what the comb filter/vp chip is in the LX70? I've been unable to find an LX70 so I am looking to see if other pioneer models might share the same chipset.
balboarules's Avatar balboarules 04:39 PM 01-25-2013
There are several adjustments on the Crystalio.. I wish I could remember the settings, but with not having the unit any longer, I do not remember. Knowing me though, I will probably buy another one, as I just got another laserdisc player from craigslist.. 40.00 for a CLD-79 with remote.. just could not turn it down.. already thinking I want to find another CLD-97 though.
balboarules's Avatar balboarules 02:02 PM 01-28-2013
Another crystalio is on it's way.....I knew it!
matumba's Avatar matumba 03:19 AM 02-12-2013
Does anybody know if Entech is an analog or a digital comb filer?
uderman's Avatar uderman 07:34 PM 02-12-2013
I am pretty sure its a 2D digital comb filter.
balboarules's Avatar balboarules 05:51 PM 02-15-2013
Me too...i had it and got rid of it quickly!
balboarules's Avatar balboarules 05:52 PM 02-15-2013
Dok....send me a pm..maybe i can help with the settings
uderman's Avatar uderman 09:35 AM 02-26-2013
this idea just came to me


Pioneer CLD-97 or LD-S2 or HLD-X0 composite out ->

composite in -> Crystalio II = adjust Chroma trap filter, Dotcrowl, 3D Y/C spiltter , Y/C delay settings to best possible = disable de-interlacing and scaling, noise reduction -> 480i HDMI out

HDMI in -> Algolith mosquito HDMI = use DNR(instead of MNR), adjust 3D(motion) and 2D(still) settings to the best -> 480i HDMI out

HDMI in -> Lumagen Radiance = de-interlace and upscale to 1080p24fps
Josh Z's Avatar Josh Z 11:19 AM 02-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post

HDMI in -> Algolith mosquito HDMI = use DNR(instead of MNR), adjust 3D(motion) and 2D(still) settings to the best -> 480i HDMI out

The type of digital noise that the Mosquito and similar digital NR filters are programmed to detect and filter is very different from the analog noise you'll get from a Laserdisc. In my experience, modern NR filters don't have much affect on LD. They look for pixelation, and don't do anything if they don't see blocking or hard pixel edges.
Fudoh's Avatar Fudoh 02:01 PM 02-26-2013
@Josh: The Mosqito can be switched between digital Mosquite noise detection and a classic analog noise detection (called Dynamic NR by Algolith). It works very nice.

@uderman: The CII can't output 480i. 480p is the minimum. You might try to use forced 2:2 deinterlacing on the Faroudja though and have a DVDO or Radiance reinterlace the picture. A forced 2:2 deinterlacing in just a simple weave, so it should not affect the 2nd processor's performance.
HDgaming42's Avatar HDgaming42 06:33 PM 02-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The type of digital noise that the Mosquito and similar digital NR filters are programmed to detect and filter is very different from the analog noise you'll get from a Laserdisc. In my experience, modern NR filters don't have much affect on LD. They look for pixelation, and don't do anything if they don't see blocking or hard pixel edges.

The Flea can deal with analog noise--their test dvd even showcases it...
dokworm's Avatar dokworm 06:23 AM 04-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

Pictures.


From to top to bottom all the 3D Y/C settings of the Pioneer DVR (Video Essentials):

















Toy Story - from top to bottom


- X0 S-Video

- X9 S-Video

- X9 Composite -> Pioneer -> Moquito











The Mosquito's settings for the last capture:





Toy Story Clip: http://www.sendspace.com/file/3cmgv9

(X9, Composite, Pioneer DVR, Mosquito, IVTC filter, h.264 encoding, 45mb)


So, yes the X0 is a tiny bit better with it's magic comb filter, but the X9 is pretty close this way



PS: the differences in saturation are caused by me playing with the 0 / 7.5ire settings. I'm still not sure if it's better to have the LD player remove the brightness offset, to have the capture card do it or to leave the +7.5ire in the picture and adjust it afterwards. Any ideas on that ?

The verical stripe texture on the box in the image through the Pioneer /Mosquito capture have almost completely disappeared. So it is losing quite a bit of detail compared to the X0.
Fudoh's Avatar Fudoh 06:42 AM 04-11-2013
necro-bump ??

Yeah, but that's the Mosquito's fault, not that of the Pioneer's comb filter. I can't remember the Mosquito settings used for this - might have been a little too aggressive.
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