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post #181 of 301 Old 10-24-2009, 09:51 PM
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Great post, Jon.

I find this the most interesting:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonlowe View Post

ALL of the Pioneers exhibit what I call smearing to the right of brightly lit objects on screen, causing a sort of dark shadow. I've seen this in the past, but considered it a trade off for an otherwise high quality signal. Neither of the LX-900s have any of this artifact.

The so-called "CLV White Smearing" has been a problem on every laserdisc player I've ever owned, except the HLD-X9, which is totally free of it. I have never tried an LX-900, however. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had this same experience with the model?

Jon, do you own Goldeneye on LD? That disc is my test case for white smear. Near the beginning of the movie, agent 006 (Sean Bean) points his gun at Bond's head. If the player has this problem, the barrel of the gun will smear almost all the way to Pierce Brosnan's face. Can you test the LX-900 with that scene?

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post #182 of 301 Old 10-25-2009, 06:44 AM
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Although I have a LOT of discs, I don't own that one, but based on our reply, I'm getting one with DTS sound. Will let you know.

I wish I knew the mods that were applied to the LX-900 by Runco/MSD. Supposedly something done to the video AGC.

Jon
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post #183 of 301 Old 10-26-2009, 07:11 PM
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Hey Josh (or others), I have a Pioneer CLD-D704 to a DVDO Edge to a Panasonic PT-AE3000U. Do you think I should get a comb filter such as the Entech SVSI-1 or Entech CVSI-1 to place before the EDGE? Any other suggestions for better LD playback?
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post #184 of 301 Old 10-26-2009, 07:33 PM
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Opinions on the Kramer FC-10D Composite- YC Comb Filter?
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post #185 of 301 Old 10-27-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre View Post

Hey Josh (or others), I have a Pioneer CLD-D704 to a DVDO Edge to a Panasonic PT-AE3000U. Do you think I should get a comb filter such as the Entech SVSI-1 or Entech CVSI-1 to place before the EDGE?

Never managed to get my hands on one of those to test, unfortunately.

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post #186 of 301 Old 10-27-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Never managed to get my hands on one of those to test, unfortunately.

Do you think I would benefit from some sort of external comb filter? You use a Faroudja LD-100 right? The Entech's seem to be fairly acclaimed.

The EDGE doesn't have a comb filter, right? Would the Panasonic PT-AE3000U?
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post #187 of 301 Old 10-29-2009, 03:37 PM
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Josh,
Just got the disc. No smearing in that scene with the LX-900. Enjoying the movie now, with glorious DTS sound!

Jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Great post, Jon.

I find this the most interesting:



The so-called "CLV White Smearing" has been a problem on every laserdisc player I've ever owned, except the HLD-X9, which is totally free of it. I have never tried an LX-900, however. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had this same experience with the model?

Jon, do you own Goldeneye on LD? That disc is my test case for white smear. Near the beginning of the movie, agent 006 (Sean Bean) points his gun at Bond's head. If the player has this problem, the barrel of the gun will smear almost all the way to Pierce Brosnan's face. Can you test the LX-900 with that scene?

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post #188 of 301 Old 10-30-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre View Post

Do you think I would benefit from some sort of external comb filter? You use a Faroudja LD-100 right? The Entech's seem to be fairly acclaimed.

The EDGE doesn't have a comb filter, right? Would the Panasonic PT-AE3000U?

I bought an LD-100 as an experiment a long time ago, but quickly dumped it. It very clearly caused a resolution loss and softening of the picture.

I do still have a Faroudja VP100, but don't use it for LD. I found it useful primarily for SD cable channels, and I've been watching less and less of those lately. Since Comcast in my area finally picked up FX-HD, there isn't much SD programming left that I'm interested in.

I tried the VP100 with LD, but the results were inconclusive as to whether it was better than the comb filter in my LD player or not.

The problem with these LD players is that, even if you use the Composite connection, the player still digitizes the signal first to run it through its internal comb filter and DVNR circuits, and then recombines it back to analog, where you'll have to run it through yet another comb filter externally. There's no real pure Composite Video output. A lot of the problems with the player's internal comb filter wind up "baked in" to your picture.

The Edge does have a comb filter, as does any device with a Composite input. They have to, by necessity. The question is what type of filter and how good. Traditionally, DVDO's comb filters have been pretty basic 2D circuits and nothing special.

I had an Edge for beta testing for about a week, but very quickly came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work in my system (not nearly enough aspect ratio control for my CIH screen). I returned it without trying the Composite input.

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post #189 of 301 Old 10-30-2009, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonlowe View Post

Josh,
Just got the disc. No smearing in that scene with the LX-900. Enjoying the movie now, with glorious DTS sound!

Very interesting indeed. I wish I could check one out.

I don't suppose you can pause on that scene and take a close-up photo of the gun barrell off your screen?

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post #190 of 301 Old 10-30-2009, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I bought an LD-100 as an experiment a long time ago, but quickly dumped it. It very clearly caused a resolution loss and softening of the picture.

I do still have a Faroudja VP100, but don't use it for LD. I found it useful primarily for SD cable channels, and I've been watching less and less of those lately. Since Comcast in my area finally picked up FX-HD, there isn't much SD programming left that I'm interested in.

I tried the VP100 with LD, but the results were inconclusive as to whether it was better than the comb filter in my LD player or not.

The problem with these LD players is that, even if you use the Composite connection, the player still digitizes the signal first to run it through its internal comb filter and DVNR circuits, and then recombines it back to analog, where you'll have to run it through yet another comb filter externally. There's no real pure Composite Video output. A lot of the problems with the player's internal comb filter wind up "baked in" to your picture.

The Edge does have a comb filter, as does any device with a Composite input. They have to, by necessity. The question is what type of filter and how good. Traditionally, DVDO's comb filters have been pretty basic 2D circuits and nothing special.

I had an Edge for beta testing for about a week, but very quickly came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work in my system (not nearly enough aspect ratio control for my CIH screen). I returned it without trying the Composite input.

Thank you very much for the great information Josh! I guess I will just stick to my current setup for laserdisc unless I can get a SVSI-1 for cheap.
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post #191 of 301 Old 10-30-2009, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The problem with these LD players is that, even if you use the Composite connection, the player still digitizes the signal first to run it through its internal comb filter and DVNR circuits, and then recombines it back to analog, where you'll have to run it through yet another comb filter externally. There's no real pure Composite Video output. A lot of the problems with the player's internal comb filter wind up "baked in" to your picture.

The Edge does have a comb filter, as does any device with a Composite input. They have to, by necessity. The question is what type of filter and how good. Traditionally, DVDO's comb filters have been pretty basic 2D circuits and nothing special.

I had an Edge for beta testing for about a week, but very quickly came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work in my system (not nearly enough aspect ratio control for my CIH screen). I returned it without trying the Composite input.

Why use Composite instead of S-Video, if available (I've heard some do this under certain circumstances)? Isn't S-Video supposed to be a better connection, at least in theory?
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post #192 of 301 Old 10-30-2009, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Why use Composite instead of S-Video, if available (I've heard some do this under certain circumstances)? Isn't S-Video supposed to be a better connection, at least in theory?

Because the s-video outputs of lasedisc uses the internal comb filter separating the luminance and color parts of the signal which is not as good as most of the ones currently used in TV's etc. The composite outputs although not pure, are better. There may be a better explanation but that is pretty close.

It is generally better to use the composite output on laserdiscs instead of s-video.
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post #193 of 301 Old 10-31-2009, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre View Post

Because the s-video outputs of lasedisc uses the internal comb filter separating the luminance and color parts of the signal which is not as good as most of the ones currently used in TV's etc. The composite outputs although not pure, are better. There may be a better explanation but that is pretty close.

It is generally better to use the composite output on laserdiscs instead of s-video.

Maybe I will try this out. I have a Pioneer Elite DVL-91 combi-player, running an S-Video connection to an EDGE then on to a Pioneer Elite 111FD plasma. It means buying a composite cable, which I'd prefer not to, but we'll see.

I note that running the LD through my EDGE as opposed to direct to the TV does improve the picture slightly, notably in terms of contrast and color.
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post #194 of 301 Old 10-31-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Maybe I will try this out. I have a Pioneer Elite DVL-91 combi-player, running an S-Video connection to an EDGE then on to a Pioneer Elite 111FD plasma. It means buying a composite cable, which I'd prefer not to, but we'll see.

I note that running the LD through my EDGE as opposed to direct to the TV does improve the picture slightly, notably in terms of contrast and color.

Please report back once you have tried the composite output.
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post #195 of 301 Old 11-01-2009, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre View Post

Opinions on the Kramer FC-10D Composite- YC Comb Filter?

I have a Kramer FC-10D Composite- YC Comb Filter, also a Pioneer CLD-504 that was fixed up by Kurtis Bahr before I bought it and a Marantz LV500U that unfortunately does open the door anymore. Always wondered what the Kramer did but could never really see a huge difference, maybe I was expecting to much. If there's some kind of test with the Kramer I can do I'd love to see it.
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post #196 of 301 Old 12-21-2009, 04:57 PM
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Sorry for bringing up an older thread but it hits the nail on the head with my question. From reading this thread, is the conclusion to hook the laserdisc player directly to the display? Besides some one off posts that is the conclusion I came to after reading the whole thread. I have what is considered a "good" LD player in an HLD-X9. I have an o 720p Sony LCD XBR2 display. Should I just keep the two hooked up and not bother with any all in one video processor or their earlier incarnations (scalers, line-doublers, etc.)?
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post #197 of 301 Old 03-22-2010, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post

well then should the history be re-writen I have been reading for the past year , also in the archives that X9 has the best S-Video output and X0 has the best composite output. I think its still agreed that X0 for the best composite output but also the S-video as well over the X9?

but its a tricky question if the answer is "no" X9 has the best s-video output, since there is no external comb filter that beats X0's internal one(well most agree that it does) and the internal comb filter of X0 is inferior to X9(and again most agree that it is) then X9 is a better LD player :P I hope you got the logic here and hope again that the answer for the above question will be "yes"

I wish I could answer that question but I have not seen any of those machines in action. I have seen some screen captures in archives and impo X0's s-video is superior to x9's s-video but again the results should vary depending on the display and processing between the unit and the display.

my knowledge on these subjects are limited to what I read here and there so if I am wrong anywhere, I dont mind being corrected I am here to learn about such stuff anyway



I had two HLD-X9 and two HLD-X0 (I tested both so the difference wasn't due to equipment problem) and I did a lot of test, using 3-4 different displays and 15-20 different laserdisc's. In my opinion the s-video output from the X0 is better than the X9. The X0 is not perfect but it is the overall best image from laserdisc I have ever seen (I tested against R7G, LD-S9, CLD-925, DVL-919, HLD-X9, and some more).

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #198 of 301 Old 03-22-2010, 07:32 PM
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So what VP for best de-interlacing and scaling to 1080P from good s-video from the X0? DVDO iScan VP50PRO or something else? How about the other DVDO units?

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #199 of 301 Old 03-22-2010, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.master.dre View Post

Do you think I would benefit from some sort of external comb filter? You use a Faroudja LD-100 right? The Entech's seem to be fairly acclaimed.

The EDGE doesn't have a comb filter, right? Would the Panasonic PT-AE3000U?

The EDGE analog input uses an Analog Devices ADV7800 which has a 3D comb filter.
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post #200 of 301 Old 04-26-2010, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark10001 View Post

The EDGE analog input uses an Analog Devices ADV7800 which has a 3D comb filter.

I just picked up a Faroudja LD-100 and the Entech SVSI-1. I planned to use one in my theatre before my DVDO Edge and Panasonic PT-AE3000U. The other before my Plasma.

How do you think the Analog Devices ADV7800 3D comb filter will compare to these units?

Also, do you happen to know what, if any, 3D comb filter the Panasonic PT-AE3000U has?
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post #201 of 301 Old 05-01-2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

I had two HLD-X9 and two HLD-X0 (I tested both so the difference wasn't due to equipment problem) and I did a lot of test, using 3-4 different displays and 15-20 different laserdisc's. In my opinion the s-video output from the X0 is better than the X9. The X0 is not perfect but it is the overall best image from laserdisc I have ever seen (I tested against R7G, LD-S9, CLD-925, DVL-919, HLD-X9, and some more).


Amen to tha,

I kept saying that for the last 8 years doing extensive tests.

there migt still be a very good 3D comb filter somewhere in an

S-VHS player or DVD-R-recorder.

it's nfortunate that most filters cannot be tweaked.

I was very amazed how well the Crystalio 2's internal 3D design could

be improved with the lush settings it provides.

there's a guy who modified an old Runco scaler and he claimed

to have the best result (maybe his site can still befound, he was the guy

with the Star Wars LD project)


Michael
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post #202 of 301 Old 05-01-2010, 07:09 AM
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unfortunatly, the site doesn't exist anymore, but I fould a thread


http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/top...ad/topic/1640/



Michael
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post #203 of 301 Old 09-05-2010, 03:27 AM
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Hi again guys

I have been modding my player quite a bit now, watching the Star Wars 97' special edition i was unsure i were watching Dvd or Ld

Here are some pictures of the mods, and as you can see this player outputs Ntsc straight from the Tbc chip. No comb filtering has been done to the signal. The short black capacitors are Black gate Pk's.

Input (from pickup)


Rf demodulator (video)



Tbc, last chip that handles the Ntsc direct output.



The things to do is adding some Os-cons for the power rails, more black gates and expensive Amtrans caps. And reclocking the Tbc chip with superclock-4s. The thick double shielded Coax cables are for Rf input and Ntsc direct output to Bnc.
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post #204 of 301 Old 09-05-2010, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleks.J View Post

Hi again guys

I have been modding my player quite a bit now, watching the Star Wars 97' special edition i was unsure i were watching Dvd or Ld

Here are some pictures of the mods...

Impressive. Most impressive.
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post #205 of 301 Old 09-07-2010, 05:06 AM
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Which player are you modding?

I've always wanted to do the direct composite mod to my LD-S2 which I heard a rumor that MSB at one time did that might make it the best LD player out their.
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post #206 of 301 Old 09-08-2010, 10:04 AM
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Sony C2ex, its nowhere near stock by now tho. Im glad this player dont have a single mechanical part that is common with the US models wich i wouldn't think of modifying to this degree (Some had a single plastic rail for the pickup, this has 2 and is all steel..). The biggest gripe i had was the upper disc lock clamp (plastic with metal insert) wich has been beefed up with a thick steel type from an old Pioneer Cld 1750. Soon to come is the merging of my Mdp-999 (Heaviest Sony ever made) and C2ex chassis. With the granite slab im going to put in the middle the final player is probably going to end up weighing over 40kilos.
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post #207 of 301 Old 09-20-2010, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleks.J View Post

Sony C2ex, its nowhere near stock by now tho. Im glad this player dont have a single mechanical part that is common with the US models wich i wouldn't think of modifying to this degree (Some had a single plastic rail for the pickup, this has 2 and is all steel..). The biggest gripe i had was the upper disc lock clamp (plastic with metal insert) wich has been beefed up with a thick steel type from an old Pioneer Cld 1750. Soon to come is the merging of my Mdp-999 (Heaviest Sony ever made) and C2ex chassis. With the granite slab im going to put in the middle the final player is probably going to end up weighing over 40kilos.

Franken-player....

In real life I am Dot Mongur champion of the International Pacman Federation. I don't play the game, I operate it.....no dot is safe from me....

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post #208 of 301 Old 12-06-2010, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Can someone compare Crystalio II 3300, Lumagen Radiance XE and DVDO and Iscan Duo? (Pros vs Cons and overal choice)

-my primary player is a McIntosh MLD-7020(Pio CLD-97), I will buy a HLD-X0 next year sometime)

-Primary display is Pio Pro-141FD monitor(9.5th-10th gen plasma)

-will watch 1.33:1 ratio content-old films(%10), TV shows(%50 X-files, Star Trek etc..)-Music&Concerts(%30)-other(%10), a few films in 1.85:1, and 2.35:1(Star Wars, DTS LDs, LD exclusive cuts etc..) so would like a good aspect ratio management

thanks in advance
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post #209 of 301 Old 12-06-2010, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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my impressions so far;

-my pio display has decent comb filter and video processing but can be improved with better equipment.

-since my cld-97(most other) re-combines y/c, prefered output is s-video which rules out the need for a good comb filter.

-if i get a HLD-X0, the player will read/process/output video better in every aspect and I can utilize a better comb filter via its bnc composite out.

-Crystalio II has a custimizable 3d 5line comb filter, choice of Faroudja dcdi and gennum vxp de-interlacers and gennup vxp scaler/noise reduction etc.. on paper seems very appropiate for laserdisc playback

-Lumagen has the best scaling which will give me the best cable tv picture as well(for 720p content)

-DVDO Iscan duo has abt 2010 with fast cadence pick up/de-interlacing, good for both 1080i to 1080p

I am (with my limited knowledge) leaning more towards lumagen vs crystalio however I read great things about lumagen(mostly about updates etc..) vs bad things about crystalio

thanks
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post #210 of 301 Old 12-08-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleks.J View Post

Hi again guys

I have been modding my player quite a bit now, watching the Star Wars 97' special edition i was unsure i were watching Dvd or Ld

Here are some pictures of the mods, and as you can see this player outputs Ntsc straight from the Tbc chip. No comb filtering has been done to the signal. The short black capacitors are Black gate Pk's.

Input (from pickup)


Rf demodulator (video)



Tbc, last chip that handles the Ntsc direct output.



The things to do is adding some Os-cons for the power rails, more black gates and expensive Amtrans caps. And reclocking the Tbc chip with superclock-4s. The thick double shielded Coax cables are for Rf input and Ntsc direct output to Bnc.

Are you thinking about doing this as a side business? I'd like my Laserdisc player upgraded (at least some minor upgrades)

Nothing in this posting/signature really means anything in the long run.
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