New DVDO iScan Duo [2.0 firmware released] - Page 97 - AVS Forum
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post #2881 of 3835 Old 10-17-2011, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

You might consider getting the ISF guy to come back and recalibrate with the Duo's CMS. It worked wonders on my setup when I recalibrated.

Actually I was thinking about a check-up on the TV, though it isn't obvious one is needed and I hadn't considered involving the Duo's CMS. I have a Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD plasma, which has excellent color to start with. I have no complaints about the color as is, but you're indicating a different level is possible. That's scary.
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post #2882 of 3835 Old 10-17-2011, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Actually I was thinking about a check-up on the TV, though it isn't obvious one is needed and I hadn't considered involving the Duo's CMS. I have a Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD plasma, which has excellent color to start with. I have no complaints about the color as is, but you're indicating a different level is possible. That's scary.

I've never done a 111 but if all that is available on the display is what is shown on the ControlCal attachment then unless your TV is a complete freak you should be able to improve color, grayscale, and gamma using the Duo.
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post #2883 of 3835 Old 10-17-2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

No offense to you or your wife, but tell her that Kilgore, a guy on AVSforum, says that if she can't use a Harmony remote, she's an idiot who's being difficult for no good reason..

To watch TV, click the Watch TV button.

If that's too complicated, she needs a brain scan.

(Clearly, I jest, but you get the point)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

No offense to you or your wife, but tell her that Kilgore, a guy on AVSforum, says that if she can't use a Harmony remote, she's an idiot who's being difficult for no good reason..

To watch TV, click the Watch TV button.

If that's too complicated, she needs a brain scan.

(Clearly, I jest, but you get the point)

Someone doesn't what to stay married. Remember they will get 1/2....1/2 of the HT!!! Keep'um happy but at the same time work on your HT system constantly and they just think you are doing your normal geek thing
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post #2884 of 3835 Old 10-17-2011, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I've never done a 111 but if all that is available on the display is what is shown on the ControlCal attachment then unless your TV is a complete freak you should be able to improve color, grayscale, and gamma using the Duo.

It's difficult to imagine it being much better than it is now since the color is excellent to begin with, but not impossible . So if/when I get around to having the ISF tech back, I'll certainly bring this up. I had an EDGE (no CMS) when the 111 was first calibrated. If it can get even better than it looks now that would be amazing.
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post #2885 of 3835 Old 10-17-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

Someone doesn't what to stay married. Remember they will get 1/2....1/2 of the HT!!! Keep'um happy but at the same time work on your HT system constantly and they just think you are doing your normal geek thing

Which is why I had to get another Duo.

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post #2886 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 05:59 AM
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Well I got my Duo on Friday. Updated the firmware and hooked everything up without any problems. I started doing some calibration with Calman and my i1pro using the Calman Duo workflow.. Which I found out wasn't what I really wanted to use! Around 2am I gave up as my picture was looking pretty bad.

I started again the next evening using the Calman standard interactive workflow (after setting everything back to defaults) and I am happy to say things are looking pretty good. It is nice to be able to enable and disable the CMS to see the difference quickly! What I have found is that my projectors colors are a bit under saturated to begin with. They all fall pretty much inside the triangle on the color chart. It seems no amount of changes I made will get an under saturated color to move further out to it respective point. Greens have always looked very very bad with my projector Mits HD1000U. My primary green when I started was basically at 1:00 on the color chart. It was on the line of the triangle but closer to yellow than it should be.

Using the interactive workflow and Calman you basically drag the color point you just measured to where you want it to be, and Calman takes a bunch of measurements and automatically changes the settings in the Duo to move your point. The only point I was able to get spot on was Yellow. I was able to get green moved over directly under where it is suppose to be, but it is still almost 3/8" away from its perfect point. Even though green is very under saturated, which I thought would be a problem. Grass actually looks like it should!!! Trees and shrubs actually look correct. That was one of the biggest complaints I had and it seems it has taken care of that. The Duo has made calibrating fun again. I am now learning even with a very good CMS on a system their are still limitations.

I plan on wiping everything out and doing it again. I was able to get almost a perfect 2.2 gamma across the board, and my grey scale was under 3 I believe in all but 2 positions... 10% & 100%.
Over all I am very happy and basically within 2 days of fooling around I was able to get a much nicer picture than I had before!!

Dave N
Joppa, Maryland
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post #2887 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 09:22 AM
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No CMS in the world can fix undersaturated colors. They can only reign in overstatured colors and move things around a bit inside the palate the display give them. That said, I have never heard of a display with undersaturated colors before, or at least certainly not to the extent you describe. Is this repeatable? I wonder if your meter is faulty.
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post #2888 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post

No CMS in the world can fix under saturated colors. They can only reign in over statured colors and move things around a bit inside the palate the display give them. That said, I have never heard of a display with under saturated colors before, or at least certainly not to the extent you describe. Is this repeatable? I wonder if your meter is faulty.

When I say the colors are under saturated a bit green was by far the worst. When I do this again, I will post some results. The CIE chart is actually still up on the laptop screen but it wont let me save my work. I unplugged the meter when I was done and maybe that is what is causing my save problem. I should of saved before I unhooked everything, including the serial control cable to the Duo..
Anyway, green is by far the worst. Blue was very close. I think it was almost touching the box it should be in on the CIE Chart. Red was almost the same as blue. It was almost touching its box on the CIE chart. Cyan was off because green is so far off to the right. If you draw a line between green and blue it does interconnect with Cyan.

I don't really think it is a meter problem. I have a brand new 47" Vizio I just calibrated the grey scale on, and it looks incredible! I did not measure the primaries on that because I have no CMS on that TV to be able to adjust any. I can do a run with the meter on that TV to make sure it isn't the meter. Although I am only a home calibrator, I have been doing it enough I think I could tell if I had a meter problem. maybe not ha ha. I have not gotten into CMS calibration until now so this is a new world. I'm diggin it though! Thanks for your comments and help guys.

Dave N
Joppa, Maryland
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post #2889 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 01:42 PM
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Just had a thought... Would bumping up the COLOR setting push all my colors further out of the CIE Chart? I realize there are possible limitations within the display itself, but if they are all slightly undersaturated I am wondering if that would help me. knowing I can always tame them back individually with the DUO.... Easy enough for me to do a quick run sometime to see what it changes. I love the interactive feature of the Calman by the way. It may still have a few hiccups here and there but it is nice!

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post #2890 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 01:55 PM
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does your projector have any different color space or gamut options? if it does, use that option. This way your duo is able to pull them back into spec.
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post #2891 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 02:02 PM
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1forsnow... I don't believe it does. It is a Mitsubishi HD1000U. It must be about 4 or 5 yrs old at this point. I will have to check deeper in the other menus but I think I am stuck with the basics on this model...

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post #2892 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpnaylor View Post

Just had a thought... Would bumping up the COLOR setting push all my colors further out of the CIE Chart? I realize there are possible limitations within the display itself, but if they are all slightly undersaturated I am wondering if that would help me. knowing I can always tame them back individually with the DUO.... Easy enough for me to do a quick run sometime to see what it changes. I love the interactive feature of the Calman by the way. It may still have a few hiccups here and there but it is nice!

Usually not. Color setting usually affect luminance (Y) but not saturaton/hue (x,y)...
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post #2893 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 03:34 PM
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Is everyone on the latest firmware or 2.0 (thread title), just wondering if all the bugs are worked out and its safe to load 2.3??
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post #2894 of 3835 Old 10-19-2011, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanhdtv View Post

Is everyone on the latest firmware or 2.0 (thread title), just wondering if all the bugs are worked out and its safe to load 2.3??

Yes i am using the latest firmware and all seems fine. I have not had it very long but i have put it through its paces with auto calibrate and using the serial communication port as well. Has anybody used the serial communication port at a baud rate higher than 19200 when using Calman?

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post #2895 of 3835 Old 10-20-2011, 10:44 AM
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Latest here and no issues. Well except one minor thing. When changing from computer to video levels the image cuts out a couple seconds. That never happened on other Duos or Edges I had here before. Before someone asks why I switch it's for football.

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post #2896 of 3835 Old 10-21-2011, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Latest here and no issues. Well except one minor thing. When changing from computer to video levels the image cuts out a couple seconds. That never happened on other Duos or Edges I had here before. Before someone asks why I switch it's for football.

I didn't realize that was not normal.

My Duo which is old hardware but up to date firmware has always lost both audio and video for about 2 seconds whenever I change video output from any Duo output format to another.

Depending on change type, I usually get audio first then video (both within 2 seconds), sometimes with a flashing blue screen. However all Duo output choice video formats are playable on my Toshiba LCD with this latest firmware.

Sorry Joe, just noticed you said 'video levels' not 'video outputs'.
Change of 'video levels' on my Duo is seamless.
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post #2897 of 3835 Old 10-21-2011, 10:35 AM
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Not sure if anyone else is seeing this, but if you change the display device, the DUO asks to input a name for the display. After I've done this the DUO CMS was set back to 0.

Always back, and put the values of the DUO and display in a spread sheet. My spreadsheet has all of the Display setting, The DVDO settings, has pictures of the calibration (which show the DVDO settings from Calman's perspective). I am planning to 1 day make a spreadsheet that will extract the DVDO data points. That is if I can ever going a weekend without trying to calibrate the displays again.
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post #2898 of 3835 Old 10-21-2011, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

.....
Always back, and put the values of the DUO and display in a spread sheet. My spreadsheet has all of the Display setting, The DVDO settings, has pictures of the calibration (which show the DVDO settings from Calman's perspective). I am planning to 1 day make a spreadsheet that will extract the DVDO data points. That is if I can ever going a weekend without trying to calibrate the displays again.

In case you ever get tired putting the data manually in your spreadsheet, there is a little utility around (search this subforum) that allows to save and restore the Duo settings, incl. CMS.
____
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post #2899 of 3835 Old 10-22-2011, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
In case you ever get tired putting the data manually in your spreadsheet, there is a little utility around (search this subforum) that allows to save and restore the Duo settings, incl. CMS.
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There certainly is....

 

DVDO iScan Duo Control Panel.zip 159.4892578125k . file

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post #2900 of 3835 Old 10-22-2011, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

There certainly is....

Been using this for some time know, but I like to have what the Control Panel Values and the values Calman has on the Graph. The spreedsheet I want to make extracts the the data values from the Control Panel app.
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post #2901 of 3835 Old 10-23-2011, 12:23 PM
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Was looking for something to improve my viewing experience of dvd based content from an htpc. I'm not expecting miracles but would like to hear from people who may be running similar source and content. What kind of improvements were noted? Thanks!
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post #2902 of 3835 Old 10-23-2011, 07:24 PM
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Contemplating purchasing an Iscan Duo and had a question - Can the Iscan Duo take in RGB input and output to HDMI? what about other analog video sources as input, can they be converted and output into the HDMI out
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post #2903 of 3835 Old 10-23-2011, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rman66 View Post

Contemplating purchasing an Iscan Duo and had a question - Can the Iscan Duo take in RGB input and output to HDMI? what about other analog video sources as input, can they be converted and output into the HDMI out

Absolutely. That's one of the main principles behind the use of a video processor like the DUO (among other things).
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post #2904 of 3835 Old 10-24-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biznus97 View Post

Was looking for something to improve my viewing experience of dvd based content from an htpc. I'm not expecting miracles but would like to hear from people who may be running similar source and content. What kind of improvements were noted? Thanks!



No opinions on how the unit handles upscaling of dvd ?
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post #2905 of 3835 Old 10-24-2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

Absolutely. That's one of the main principles behind the use of a video processor like the DUO (among other things).

great.. just bought one.
My setup is as follows:
  • Denon 4806CI AV receiver
  • LG 50PK550 plasma TV
  • Oppo BDP-93 bluray player
  • Nintendo Wii
  • Apple TV
  • Roku
  • Universal Remote PS2 Ipod Dock
  • Sonos ZP-90
  • Nuvo Essentia 6/6 distribution amplifier
  • Dell Studio Hybrid PC
  • Apple TV
    plus the DVDO ISCAN DUO
The denon only has 3HDMI and 1 DVI in, and 1 HDMI out.. hoping that the Iscan Duo can increase the capacity.

I am still not completely sure how going this route of buying the Iscan Duo is better than the alternative which is getting rid of the Denon and getting a current receiver with 8HDMI input for around the same price.. I heard about color management, auto switching etc but will it make a difference to my setup as listed above?

thanks.
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post #2906 of 3835 Old 10-24-2011, 03:23 PM
 
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So where are the announcements for updates and new features, etc? Or am I the only one that had a dream that some guy from Simplay Labs was promising updates and new features?
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post #2907 of 3835 Old 10-24-2011, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biznus97 View Post

No opinions on how the unit handles upscaling of dvd ?

It handles it well, but nothing will be as good as your HTPC for upscaling DVDs.
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post #2908 of 3835 Old 10-24-2011, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rman66 View Post

great.. just bought one.
My setup is as follows:
  • Denon 4806CI AV receiver
  • LG 50PK550 plasma TV
  • Oppo BDP-93 bluray player
  • Nintendo Wii
  • Apple TV
  • Roku
  • Universal Remote PS2 Ipod Dock
  • Sonos ZP-90
  • Nuvo Essentia 6/6 distribution amplifier
  • Dell Studio Hybrid PC
  • Apple TV
    plus the DVDO ISCAN DUO
The denon only has 3HDMI and 1 DVI in, and 1 HDMI out.. hoping that the Iscan Duo can increase the capacity.

I am still not completely sure how going this route of buying the Iscan Duo is better than the alternative which is getting rid of the Denon and getting a current receiver with 8HDMI input for around the same price.. I heard about color management, auto switching etc but will it make a difference to my setup as listed above?

thanks.

The Duo will do a better job scaling your Wii than a receiver. The Duo has Prep, which can take a DVD that is using 3:2 pulldown and get it back to 24fps, and then scale it to 1080p/24. No AVR that I know of can do that. The Duo's lip sync feature can work in both directions. The Duo has a lot more features than any AVR I have seen (I have an Onkyo 3007 that is pretty feature-rich video processor wise for an AVR, and I turn it all off). Finally, do not underestimate the CMS. The CMS alone is worth the price.
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post #2909 of 3835 Old 10-24-2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post

The Duo will do a better job scaling your Wii than a receiver. The Duo has Prep, which can take a DVD that is using 3:2 pulldown and get it back to 24fps, and then scale it to 1080p/24. No AVR that I know of can do that. The Duo's lip sync feature can work in both directions. The Duo has a lot more features than any AVR I have seen (I have an Onkyo 3007 that is pretty feature-rich video processor wise for an AVR, and I turn it all off). Finally, do not underestimate the CMS. The CMS alone is worth the price.

thank you for making me feel good about my purchase.

So, what can CMS do for my setup? I havent got the slightest clue. I will probably do a search and try to find out but also would like to know your thoughts on that. I had been toying with the idea of upgrading the TV to a LG 55LHX, if I can find a buyer for my TV which is less than 6 months old
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post #2910 of 3835 Old 10-24-2011, 05:38 PM
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I have to agree. The CMS is the sole reason I bought this.
Other than that, it actually also serve as a nice pattern generator.
Personally, I do not see big differences in PQ improvement for Wii, but it might be because my screen is only 50"... if you have bigger screen, it should be better.
Another advantage is change of color space, and also give you information on your EDID data...
auto-standby never works for me because my DISH send signals even it goes to standby.
I also really like the HDMI Audio passthrough. If I can only find a good AVR that have the high-end MultiEQ, without all those legacy RCA/optical/coax input and video processing... Sadly, these days, if you want to have good high-end multi-EQ and sound processing, they bundle with high end video processing (which is probably just the same quality as a DUO) that I cannot use but I still need to pay for it..
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