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Help with Budget Setup

1K views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  Q of BanditZ 
#1 ·
Gear on hand:


Infocus X9, 720p/1080i projector-connections on back, 1 each- component, composite, s-video, HDMI, computer.

96"d 16-9 screen

Xbox 360 connected via component

Dishnetwork duo-receiver SDTV

satellite receiver only has cable or composite out for 2nd tv.


This is set up in a smallish room, 12' x 12'. The xbox 360 looks great, even standard dvd's played through the xbox look good. The problem is satellite tv. It is only 480i and does not look that great. The duo receiver is upstairs and the projector down in the basement. I currently have it connected via coax cable to a vcr then composite to the projector.


So a few of questions. Should I get an up-converting dvd recorder/w tuner to replace the vcr. Would a run of 35' for a composite cable from upstairs satellite receiver to downstairs be too long? What video processor would work best to improve my picture?


Thanks
 
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#2 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaDad /forum/post/17285562


The problem is satellite tv. It is only 480i and does not look that great.

With a 96" screen, even the best video processor will only make your image slightly better. You can only improve 480i so much on a screen that large, particularly if the signal is coax (RF) or composite--perhaps the two last choices for clean analog video.


Might be time to upgrade the sat to HD. That will do more to improve the image than any VP.


My $0.02


Cheers!
 
#3 ·
Indeed, 480i sat will have so much artifacting that video processors are not yet all that good at fixing (and most of them, especially the cheap ones like the DVDO Edge, will barely help at all) and because of those artifacts, the superior deinterlacing found in any decent VP will not help as much.
 
#5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaDad /forum/post/17300651


Even upgrading the video from 480i to 480p would be an improvement.

Probably not.



The issue is not one of 480i vs 480p, but the quality of the signal itself. You are taking a digital satellite signal (probably over-compressed) converting it to RF (coax), re-converting it to composite with an old VCR, and finally converting back to digital within the projector including scaling the image to the projector native resolution of 720p.


Each of those steps degrades the quality of the signal, and neither the satellite box or the VCR is probably particularly good at high-quality signal conversion in the first place, so the end result is ugly. Taking a poor signal and presenting it really large is hardly ever successful, in fact it's a recipe for disaster as you have seen firsthand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaDad /forum/post/17300651


Would something like the older DVDO iScan Plus be worth trying?

Perhaps, but I very strongly suspect that you will not be satisfied. The de-interlacing performance iScan Plus probably won't matter given the source you are using. Whatever money you spend, however minor, would probably be better spent fixing the underlying issue....even if that means finding a better way to get the 480i signal to the basement. It's really hard to make a silk purse out of sow's ear, and you might "get by" with your signal path if you were watching all of this on a 17" CRT from 10'. But in a 12x12' room with a 96" screen you are going to see every issue.


After all, your projector will present a great looking image when fed a quality signal...like your xBox 360.
 
#6 ·
The coax cable and vcr where down there from the old tube tv set up. I planned on changing out the coax with composite cables to get the video/audio down there. About a 35' run. Unfortunately the satellite needs to go to a tuner first. Thus the question about getting a up-converting DVD recorder with a tuner. My thinking was the tuner in the dvd recorder would be a bit better than the old vcr.


I found an article written by Stacey Pears called "Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity". It is a bit dated but very informative. It's like reading greek but I'm starting to understand some of it.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...eo-9-2000.html
 
#7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaDad /forum/post/17303523


My thinking was the tuner in the dvd recorder would be a bit better than the old vcr.

It might be, but I would not bet on it. Most of those components are built as cheaply as possible.



One inexpensive idea (at least compared to a new VP or sat box): do you have any other high quality outputs on the sat box like component video or HDMI?


If so, you could run either one over CAT 5 or CAT 6 cable (the stuff used for ethernet on computers). You would have an adapter (balun) at each end and the cable in-between. The quality, although still 480i or 480p, would be light years beyond your current setup.


If interested, there is all sorts of info here on AVS or with a simple google search.


Once you have a good source in the basement you can re-evaluate the need for a VP.


(ps. I would still suggest HD Sat, but I can certainly understand the desire to avoid a recurring monthly payment.)
 
#8 ·
Unfortunately Dishnetwork receivers only have Coax/composite connections for tv 2. Even their HD receiver boxes. Another option I considered my was to add another sat box downstairs, but that's a monthly cost vs. a one time cost. I thought of going with Cable tv but their service s***s around here. My neighbors that have it complain about it.


I looked at the balun connectors. Sounds interesting. Looks like a better option than coax or a big composite cable run. I found a site that sells balun connectors for composite runs. Is there any signal loss over the cat 6 cable?


Thanks for the help on this.
 
#9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaDad /forum/post/17305791


I found a site that sells balun connectors for composite runs. Is there any signal loss over the cat 6 cable?


Thanks for the help on this.

I'm afraid that I have ZERO experience with composite over CAT cables.


Perhaps somebody else can chime in here, and/or you can also seek suggestions over in this AVS sub-forum.


Cheers!
 
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaDad /forum/post/17305791



I looked at the balun connectors. Sounds interesting. Looks like a better option than coax or a big composite cable run. I found a site that sells balun connectors for composite runs. Is there any signal loss over the cat 6 cable?


Thanks for the help on this.

I have done numerous balun installs with component, composite, audio, and have recognized no signal loss. I have used baluns by niles, muxlab, and Intelix, with Intelix being my favored one.

Thanks.
 
#11 ·
Just an update. I came across another forum called DBSTalk.com. Following the info I found there I changed the satellite channel output from 60 to channel 22. This improved the picture on all of the tv's connected to tv2 output from the satellite. It was explained that higher frequencies (channels) have more loss through cable and are more sensitive to lose connections ect..


This makes the projector watchable on satellite channels now. At least standard channels. While watching football I still see some blurriness and slight ghosting. This might be due more to the signal being sent to the satellite twice for sporting events vs. once for broadcast shows.
 
#12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaDad /forum/post/17332569


This makes the projector watchable on satellite channels now. At least standard channels. While watching football I still see some blurriness and slight ghosting. This might be due more to the signal being sent to the satellite twice for sporting events vs. once for broadcast shows.

Thanks for the update! Glad to hear that you have made progress.



The sat signal is definitely degraded by compression for transmission, but the result is probably only one additional factor in your signal chain. IMHO, the main culprit for the blurriness and ghosting remains your RF signal. FWIW, digital artifacting from compression, re-compression, and over-compression typically manifests itself in 'blockiness' or loss of resolution.


If going from channel 60 to 22 made a noticeable difference, I can only imagine the improvement if you were to use component (or composite) via baluns, let alone an actual HD signal.
 
#13 ·
GeorgiaDad: Far and away the best thing would be to pay the little bit of extra for real high definition content. There's so much of it now that you pretty much almost never have to watch non HD again and you don't have to pay the big bucks for the premiums (HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc. etc.)


Unless you really want them, of course.



If your current cable and/or satellite provider isn't doing what you want at the price you want you can simply threaten to go to the competition.


New customers to any of these content providers are given so many freebies and giveaways it would make your head spin. You can use that as leverage.



You can also get away surprisingly cheap with an HD antenna, even if you go with just a small indoor antenna.


My little Terk HDTVa does wonders right here in the house and I'm out in the rural areas. $35 gets me about a dozen, crystal clear, gorgeous channels including all 4 major networks in HD.
 
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