Where can I find a Optoma HD3000 for around $500ish? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 03-17-2010, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have any tips where to find a Optoma HD3000 at a good price?
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post #2 of 23 Old 03-17-2010, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hexcode99 View Post

Anyone have any tips where to find a Optoma HD3000 at a good price?

Hehe, no love for the Edge?

And you're asking way too much for an Optoma at $500
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post #3 of 23 Old 03-17-2010, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hexcode99 View Post

Anyone have any tips where to find a Optoma HD3000 at a good price?

There was one on the US ebay a ways back. IIRC he was asking $299 and not one bid.

I bought mine for 300 Euro--came to just over $500 CAD. The thing is buggy man, but I put up with it. Nice to have a CMS too, though I can't really get a handle on how it's implemented...
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post #4 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mustangs1 View Post

Hehe, no love for the Edge?

And you're asking way too much for an Optoma at $500

From what I understand, the Optoma does a lot better job scaling video games then the EDGE.

What kind of bugs did you encounter, HDgaming42?
Do you know if the HDMI ports are able to pass LPCM 8Channel audio?

Thanks
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post #5 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexcode99 View Post

From what I understand, the Optoma does a lot better job scaling video games then the EDGE.

What kind of bugs did you encounter, HDgaming42?
Do you know if the HDMI ports are able to pass LPCM 8Channel audio?

Thanks

I'm fairly sure it features Gennum VXP??? If so, scaling may be slightly better (less ringing). but deinterlacing is so so. SD deinterlacing is nowhere near the Edge, in fact it is behind DCDI. (I think they feature DCDI as well) by Faroudja. On HD, 1080i, it comes fairly close to the Edge, but the Edge is still king of deinterlacing.

I would say with the Edge, scaling to 1080p, with +20 detail Enhancement, and -15 Edge Enhancement, comes very close to a perfect image. Ringing is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. Really good, natural, film like results. Are you returning the Edge?

Just curious, why is it a lot better for games? I can hardly notice the lag in COD MW2, and that is without game mode. Again, with +Detail and -Edge, games look AMAZING, everything pops just right, and I'd even go as far as saying that it improves my score.
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post #6 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, my EDGE is defective. So I can return for a replacement or refund (paid $499.99).

According this article (http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/), the Optoma HD3000 does a lot better job scaling. I have been talking with the author for awhile now, when using the EDGE for scaling he said try -5 for EE and -20 for DE. You are saying +20 DE and - 15 for EE. So I don't know. Maybe the author of the article will will reply here if he sees this thread.
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post #7 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by hexcode99 View Post

Well, my EDGE is defective. So I can return for a replacement or refund (paid $499.99).

According this article (http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/), the Optoma HD3000 does a lot better job scaling. I have been talking with the author for awhile now, when using the EDGE for scaling he said try -5 for EE and -20 for DE. You are saying +20 DE and - 15 for EE. So I don't know. Maybe the author of the article will will reply here if he sees this thread.

Well with -20 DE, and -15 EE, the picture is WAY too soft. With -15 EE, it removes most of the ringing, while keeping edges natural. DE adds NO visible artifacts, and makes everything pop. It is the most lifelike and natural image. Everything looks perfect.

BTW, with all of these high end scalers at default settings, which are all excellent by the way, you will hardly be able to tell a difference. Again, VRS is the algorithm/chip of choice for the highest end video gear, from the 6,000 marantz BD player, to the $400 Oppo. With the settings I've said, the image cannot get any better.
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post #8 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 07:03 AM
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Well with -20 DE, and -15 EE, the picture is WAY too soft.

It's a matter of personal taste. Initially the above setting will indeed seem soft and they surely are for SD or ED (480p) material, but if grow to hate even the slightest hint of ringing in the processing of videogame signals, you learn to appreciate such settings. For scaling 720p to 1080p on a 50pro I currently use DE: -20 / EE: -30 and it provides the most CRT-like astonishing results you can imagine.

Sadly the ABT-based processors produce a lot of artifacts when processing 240p or 480p videogame material. The processing results of the HD3000 are different on the first view. While the interpolation is crappy in parts and jaggies will remain on curved lines where the ABT processors succeed in delivering amazing results, the artefact-free processing makes a day and night difference when it comes to graphics.

In the end, my main processor is a ABT machine nevertheless - just lovin' it.
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post #9 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 07:09 AM
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hexcode--I have an HD3000 that I'd be willing to part with. I bought it primarily for the CMS and gamma adjustments (though its scaling and deinterlacing are better than the other parts of my system), but since I have the VideoEQ now, I've thought about removing it from the chain. Mine is one of the older ones however, and I don't believe it will scale to 1080p (though supposedly it can be upgraded by Optoma). Anyway, PM me if you're interested or have questions.
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post #10 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 07:12 AM
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Be aware that the Optoma does not handle 240p, so for legacy gaming you need to convert 240p to something the Optoma will accept--like VGA 640x480. I do this with an XRGB2+.

Unfortunately all our experiences are relative. One individual can claim a processor produces horrible results (and to them it IS horrible) while another person might a) not see any difference or b) think it looks better than the alternative.

If you take a look at Fudoh's site and examine the license plate comparison of Outrun; that's a pretty good indication of the differences you'll see between an EDGE and the HD3000.

Not mind-blowing, but certainly noticeable.

As for bugs, it seems I need to perform a factory reset about once a month, and I need to power it down and back up daily to get it to handshake with the rest of my gear. Minor really, but certainly wife-poison. Hence its status as retro-gaming box and not "our tv depends on this" box.

Overall, I would guess more people would be happy with a (non-defective) EDGE to be quite honest. You've got to have a serious hate-on for ringing to consider the HD3000. And even then you need gear before it to feed it anything sourced from 240p.

I've thrown over $800 at the XRGB2+/HD3000 chain and don't regret it, but everyone has different expectations...

Oh, and I don't know what systems you plan on using, but certainly try to get a SCART/RGB setup. THAT makes a tremendous difference. There is no comparing s-video SNES to RGB SNES. I would bet that moving to RGB would be a bigger visual improvement that the difference between ABT and Gennum scaling.
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post #11 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

It's a matter of personal taste. Initially the above setting will indeed seem soft and they surely are for SD or ED (480p) material, but if grow to hate even the slightest hint of ringing in the processing of videogame signals, you learn to appreciate such settings. For scaling 720p to 1080p on a 50pro I currently use DE: -20 / EE: -30 and it provides the most CRT-like astonishing results you can imagine.

Sadly the ABT-based processors produce a lot of artifacts when processing 240p or 480p videogame material. The processing results of the HD3000 are different on the first view. While the interpolation is crappy in parts and jaggies will remain on curved lines where the ABT processors succeed in delivering amazing results, the artefact-free processing makes a day and night difference when it comes to graphics.

In the end, my main processor is a ABT machine nevertheless - just lovin' it.

Awesome website !. Thats unfortunate that the Edge sucks with 240p and 480p. I was thinking the 720p XBOX games.

And yeah, I love my Edge. Awesome viewing results, but those -DE settings appear way too soft to me for SD upconversion. I also like the +DE for 1080i compressed cable. Makes that pop too,
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post #12 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 07:26 AM
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but those -DE settings appear way too soft to me for SD upconversion.

I use the ABT mainly only for 480i videogame material. Usually with DE +5 and EE about -5. For DVD movie material (SDI) I usually have DE +8 to 10 while EE to -5 to +3 depending on the EE present on the actual disc. The 1080p sources (BD) I have EE to -1 and DE from -4 to +4 depending on the source (Dark Knight for example needs softening to cure the flickering of details...).
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Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

I use the ABT mainly only for 480i videogame material. Usually with DE +5 and EE about -5. For DVD movie material (SDI) I usually have DE +8 to 10 while EE to -5 to +3 depending on the EE present on the actual disc. The 1080p sources (BD) I have EE to -1 and DE from -4 to +4 depending on the source (Dark Knight for example needs softening to cure the flickering of details...).

Given the granularity of the controls, +/- 100, its hard for me to see much effect until I get up to 10. I love having a huge variety of options regarding the sharpness of the picture. I love the fact that I can sharpen detail without sharpening the edges, etc... Where else can you get 40,000 different combinations of sharpness

I get 100 options for sharpness on my Panasonic S1, which for the record, has TERRIBLE processing.
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post #14 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I like the the EDGE because it supports 240p all the way up to 1080p with great de-interlacing. But it has no video pass-thru mode and will apply processing to video even if the input is the same as the output. Additionally, the scaler isn't good for 240p/480p. Seems like the DE/EE can be adjusted to help remove artifacts, but it can't "fix" the problem.

I'm looking for the "best" solution for gaming and upscaling. So 240p/480i/480p to 720p/1080p up-scaling in both 4:3 and 16:9 (and maybe 720p to 1080p). It would seem the Optoma HD3000 + XRGB3 is as good as it gets, but both of them have a "poor" de-interlacers from what I hear.

HDgaming42, does the HD3000 support up to 8channels of LPCM @ 48kHz with 24bps and does it support video pass-thru so video input is passed to output with no processing?
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post #15 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

There was one on the US ebay a ways back. IIRC he was asking $299 and not one bid.

I bought mine for 300 Euro--came to just over $500 CAD. The thing is buggy man, but I put up with it. Nice to have a CMS too, though I can't really get a handle on how it's implemented...

It is not really a CMS. However, it is an excellent tool for fixing color decoding problems. Use it like you would a standard color and tint control, except it offers targets controls for all of the pri./sec. colors.

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post #16 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 11:52 AM
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It would seem the Optoma HD3000 + XRGB3 is as good as it gets, but both of them have a "poor" de-interlacers

don't mention this to the Lumagen boys on here. The Radiance series of processors has basically the same deinterlacing chip and results for video and film-based deinterlacing are about the same.

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does it support video pass-thru so video input is passed to output with no processing?

no, it does not. It doesn't even have 480p output as as option.
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post #17 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know if the HD3000 supports 8channel LPCM over HDMI?

I wonder if it is really worth all the trouble trying to find a HD3000 and using it over the EDGE. Can't the EDGE be made to match the HD3000 using the settings+DE/EE control with game mode disabled? Or does it come down to better hardware scale chip?

And what do you do for 480i content? How bad is the XRGB3/HD3000 deinterlacer vs the EDGEs?
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post #18 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 01:19 PM
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Can't the EDGE be made to match the HD3000 using the settings+DE/EE control with game mode disabled?

not, it sometimes seems like it, but once you have a live comparison with the HD3000 picture, it's night and day again.

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Or does it come down to better hardware scale chip?

Actually worse. The HD3000's scaling isn't very good. You must not forget that those processors are geared towards video/film, not graphics. The ABT scaling engine produces razar sharp pictures from SD movie material, it's just "suited" for graphics.

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And what do you do for 480i content?

ABT all the way. For videogames you need a fixed videomode, not some auto detection crap.

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How bad is the XRGB3/HD3000 deinterlacer vs the EDGEs?

The VXP is ok, but has it's problems staying locked into video and filmmode. The XRGB's 480i deinterlacing is bad, actually so bad, that in B1 mode there's no deinterlacing at all. It simply displays the fields one at the time, much like a CRT display.
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post #19 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Great so you need a XRGB3+HD3000+EDGE if you want the best of everything.
Why can't there be one device that does perfect everything?
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post #20 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 01:49 PM
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I've been wondering this for years. And yes, you'd need of them. That's why I'm running a 50pro, a HD3000 and a XRGB-3 on my setup
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post #21 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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So if I ever wanted to get all three how would I set it up?
XRGB3 into HD3000 into EDGE into TV?
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post #22 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 01:56 PM
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I usually just use a 2nd HDMI input on my TV. Easier than routing the whole chain through the ABT processor.
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post #23 of 23 Old 03-18-2010, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Well XRGB3 is easy enough to find. Problem is the HD3000.

Also, the XRGB3 into HD3000 into EDGE into TV setup might work well since you can feed the audio into the EDGE and bypass the XRGB3/HD3000 and have the EDGE sync up the video and audio. Only problem is how much "damage" the EDGE will do to the XRGB3/HD3000 input stream since the EDGE will process the incoming video no matter what.

I still need to know if the HD3000 does 8channel LPCM over HDMI.
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