VP50 with SDI input and SDI dvd player vs Duo with CMS? SDI to HDMI into Duo? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 09-19-2010, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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What would give the most benefit? Using a DVDO VP50 with SDI input for DVD's or using the CMS of the Duo?

I suppose I am asking people's opinion here. One question would be, do you feel the Duo is good enough to replace the VP50 if you have been using the VP50 with an SDI DVD player. One thing that appears to be missing on the Duo is user defined aspect ratios.

Also, would it make sense to get an SDI > HDMI converter to run the SDI dvd player into the Duo?
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post #2 of 14 Old 09-26-2010, 10:27 AM
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I think I answered a post similar to yours but here is my prospective. The VP50 does have more features like SDI inputs and custom defined aspect ratios. If I were staring from scratch I would opt for a good BD player with a good VP processor that would up-convert DVDs and extract 24 fps film material. That would take care of the SDI issue. As for output flexibility I believe the DUO can achieve variable aspect ratios but it is not as simple as the VP50. Also in my case I need 48p for my projector so I will stay with the VP50 for a while. The DUO is superior in that it has signal processing similar to the VP50-Pro but it does lack some of the flexibility. Hope this helps.
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post #3 of 14 Old 09-27-2010, 12:50 AM
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I have both a VP50 with an SDI card fed by an SDI'd Panasonic RP82 and a Radiance XS. As I watch most DVDs I also bought a second hand Oppo 980H thinking its HDMI output at 480/576i would match the SDI combo so I could sell the VP50+Panny combo. After some testing comparing the picture of the Oppo trough the XS to that of the RP82->VP50 (only deinterlacing)->XS I found that the SDI gives a sharper more defined picture. It is not a night and day difference but still is easy to see. As in theory there shouldn't be such difference, I phoned a friend who has a "sharp eye" and asked him to come over and give me his opinion. We went though a few DVDs comparing scene after scene and the difference was there for him too. Last we played a sharpness pattern and that made much easier to spot that the SDI had a more defined image, specially revealing was text. It was a if the Oppo was slightly out of focus compared to the SDI pic. In the end I've decided to keep the Pana+VP50 as my DVD source (the Oppo will stay as a backup). I don't know if the advantage lies in the Panny's MPEG decoder being better than the Oppo's or in the absence of further processing (HDMI).

Depending on how much DVD you watch and how picky you are on IQ the VP50 can be a better choice, more so if your TV/Proyector has some decent calibration options. But, if that is not the case and you cannot get a reasonable accurate picture out of it, then probably is better trading some DVD PQ in favour of the good gamma, gray and color adjustments the Duo has.

Javier
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post #4 of 14 Old 09-27-2010, 01:00 AM
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keep in mind there are some folks(actually rather large videophile members of this forum) that still prefer the image from the VP50pro vs the Radiance

the image from my VP50pro is video perfection when combined with a videoEQ unit..LOL

-Gary
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post #5 of 14 Old 09-27-2010, 01:10 AM
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Haven't tried the VideoEQ but VP50 for deinterlacing + XS for scaling+EE+NR+Calibration is stunning.
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post #6 of 14 Old 09-30-2010, 12:59 PM
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I agree with JavierS. DVD via SDI is cleaner. It was Gary Murrell (thanks Gary) for bringing it to my attention. I bought a SDI kit for the VP50 and purchased a SDI modified Denon 2900. It was worth it. Thinking about HD-SDI but not ready to jump in yet. Has anybody puchased an SDI to HDMI converter and then into a DUO? I wonder if that would give the same picture quality?
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post #7 of 14 Old 09-30-2010, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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My SDI Panasonic CP 72 is a Gary M hot-rod model too. In addition to installing SDI, he also added digital audio coax output, installed a region free mod and did the spindle upgrade.

Ok, fair enough. So I guess I could just get a Video EQ Pro and try it with the VP50 I have now if I need a CMS. I could also do the de-interlacing with the VP50 and let the projector scale, since I am deciding between a Mitsubishi HC7000 or JVC HD 250 projector, they both have Reon chips, which scale well. Does the Reon have noise reduction?

Also, any thoughts on the ability to go SDI > HDMI into the Duo or into a projector?

I think I could always try a Video EQ Pro if I get a JVC projector with over saturated colours. If I just get the Mitsubishi HC7000 I think it can be tamed well enough for my liking without a separate/external CMS, despite it's lack of full CMS and no direct primary/secondary colour controls. All the reviewers said that they were able to get the colours good on the HC7000 using it's calibration controls. The JVC is a big question mark since I don't even know if it's going to be accurate to start with, or be oversaturated.

Ok, so I can try an SDI to HDMI adapter if I can get one cheap, and if necessary, I can use a Video EQ Pro rather than getting a Duo, but, with my using a VP50 and not a Pro, here's another question for you guys:

Apart from HD-SDI...how much better is the Pro over the regular flavour VP50? Are the extra features a big plus?

Which of these features is a worth-while upgrade for you?

1) Mosquito Noise Reduction - Reduces random noise which appears along the edges of compressed images.
2) Fine Detail Enhancement - Extracts fine detail in low resolution or compressed images
3) Edge Enhancement - Sharpens edges without adding ringing
4) Two Programmable 12V Triggers
5) THX Video Certification - The First and Only Processor to earn this Certification
6) ISF ccc Certification
7) Enhanced Anamorphic Lens Support
8) Upgradeable to HD-SDI (with Optional Input Module)

How much would it realistically cost me to upgrade to the Pro from my VP50? Considering selling and buying, not necessarily trading in, as it doesn't look attractive price wise.
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post #8 of 14 Old 09-30-2010, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRGINC View Post

I agree with JavierS. DVD via SDI is cleaner. It was Gary Murrell (thanks Gary) for bringing it to my attention. I bought a SDI kit for the VP50 and purchased a SDI modified Denon 2900. It was worth it. Thinking about HD-SDI but not ready to jump in yet. Has anybody puchased an SDI to HDMI converter and then into a DUO? I wonder if that would give the same picture quality?

I also stayed with my X-Card / SDI to Crystalio II system. it's much sharper
than anything I saw coming from an HDMI source.

I always wanted to try one of those SDI-HDMI converters, but last I heard
they all have blacker than black crush issues. anyone found one that's perfect?

Michael
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post #9 of 14 Old 09-30-2010, 10:35 PM
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as I understand it,

the HD-SDI signal is taken after the HDMI chip, so wouldn't yield any advantage over HDMI.

maybe there is a mod that takes the signal directly after decoding, but
I haven't heard of it (Gary?)

Michael
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post #10 of 14 Old 09-30-2010, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

as I understand it,

the HD-SDI signal is taken after the HDMI chip, so wouldn't yield any advantage over HDMI.

maybe there is a mod that takes the signal directly after decoding, but
I haven't heard of it (Gary?)

Michael

I am no longer in the mod business, but majority of the time that is the case, most of the HD-SDI mods are after the HDMI transmitter and/or the scaling/processor chips

and the SDI converters are ****..haha

-Gary
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post #11 of 14 Old 10-01-2010, 07:39 PM
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"After some testing comparing the picture of the Oppo trough the XS to that of the RP82->VP50 (only deinterlacing)->XS I found that the SDI gives a sharper more defined picture. It is not a night and day difference but still is easy to see."

You are comparing two different sources, two different digital transport mechanisms and two different scalers. Hard to know which one the difference is really from.

A better test would be a player with both HDMI and SDI output fed into the same scaler for comparison.

Shawn
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post #12 of 14 Old 10-02-2010, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

I am no longer in the mod business, but majority of the time that is the case, most of the HD-SDI mods are after the HDMI transmitter and/or the scaling/processor chips

That cannot be avoided as all bluray players use one chip video decoders that also do video processing. A chip with a "source direct" output mod is then necessary. The BD50 you modded me was not able to provide "source direct", processing was available over HD-SDI but PQ was improved nevertheless.

and the SDI converters are ****..haha

Not what you told me not long ago about the black-magic design converters

-Gary

Please stand corrected
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post #13 of 14 Old 10-02-2010, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"After some testing comparing the picture of the Oppo trough the XS to that of the RP82->VP50 (only deinterlacing)->XS I found that the SDI gives a sharper more defined picture. It is not a night and day difference but still is easy to see."

You are comparing two different sources, two different digital transport mechanisms and two different scalers. Hard to know which one the difference is really from.

A better test would be a player with both HDMI and SDI output fed into the same scaler for comparison.

Shawn

I did that.
I can say SDI still give some PQ improvements.
I would love to try a full 3G-SDI video system ... not likely to happen.
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post #14 of 14 Old 10-03-2010, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

You are comparing two different sources, two different digital transport mechanisms and two different scalers. Hard to know which one the difference is really from.

A better test would be a player with both HDMI and SDI output fed into the same scaler for comparison.

Shawn

Unfortunately I don't have such player, the RP82 has no digital video output.
As to the rest, I don't think the transport adds or removes anything to/from PQ, its basically the decoder and processing that make for a better or worse image plus possible degradation in the analogue or digital output stages. As I am outputting 480/576p off the VP50, there is no scaling but Lumagen's for both sources.
I'd like to know if Lumagen's SDI input module is a true SDI or if theres is any sort of conversion involved. I wouldn't mind selling the VP50 and spend the money on upgrading the XS.
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