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post #271 of 1249 Old 11-12-2011, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post

Typically the color, Hue and offsets are not needed if you calibrate the primary and secondary using the Gamut controls. In this case the color, hue and offsets would only be needed to compensate if the display or projector has red and/or green push.

I think your question really relates to the fact that we have a real 3D linear-Gamma RGB color palette CMS instead of the mathematically incorrect HLS color space Hue, Saturation, Lightness used by everyone else. So you just need to switch to using our Color Gamut CMS calibration methodology.

I think the best option is to purchase a color calibration software tool for this. Spectracal and ChromaPure software both work with the Radiance and can help you walk through the calibration process with the Radiance CMS and grayscale calibrations.

I just got a Mini3D today (thanks Mark) and overall find it to be a great unit, better than the Duo. I'm using with the Chromapure (auto cal), and it generally does a very good job. But I am confused on how to adjust saturation, hue and lightness with the Mini - I understand you are using a different, and I suppose, more accurate model, but when manually tweaking CMS, if my Blue, Cyan and Magenta are showing a little over or under stauration, and some hue or lightness offset in Chromapure, how do I go about dusting this up?

Is there some more detailed documentation on the CMS operation, as to how things work, and what sequenced steps should be taken if I wanted to do a complete manual attempt?

I'm 98% there...



I understand Chromapure will come out with an upgrade early next year that will allow manual control of the Lumagen from within there software, so I presume manual tweaks will be easier as it will manage the translation of adjusting HSL into your model, but until then, some additional guidance would be appreciated.
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post #272 of 1249 Old 11-12-2011, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


I just got a Mini3D today (thanks Mark) and overall find it to be a great unit, better than the Duo. I'm using with the Chromapure (auto cal), and it generally does a very good job. But I am confused on how to adjust saturation, hue and lightness with the Mini - I understand you are using a different, and I suppose, more accurate model, but when manually tweaking CMS, if my Blue, Cyan and Magenta are showing a little over or under stauration, and some hue or lightness offset in Chromapure, how do I go about dusting this up?

Is there some more detailed documentation on the CMS operation, as to how things work, and what sequenced steps should be taken if I wanted to do a complete manual attempt?

I'm 98% there...

I understand Chromapure will come out with an upgrade early next year that will allow manual control of the Lumagen from within there software, so I presume manual tweaks will be easier as it will manage the translation of adjusting HSL into your model, but until then, some additional guidance would be appreciated.

Can you show a graph the shows the dE's of the HSLs?

Tyler Pruitt - Pro Calibrator - BionicAV
Technical Support - SpectraCal

THX Certified - Video Calibration

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post #273 of 1249 Old 11-12-2011, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

Can you show a graph the shows the dE's of the HSLs?

This?



Thanks
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post #274 of 1249 Old 11-12-2011, 08:03 PM
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Like Thrang, I too would greatly appreciate some tips on how to work with the color space used by the Radiance in their CMS. I am very familiar with how to determine the proper xyY targets for each of the primaries and secondaries.

However I'm not sure how when looking at a measured result how to go about adjusting the Radiance CMS controls to increase or decrease each of the x, y, and Y values to move it where I want it.

For example let's say I am trying to get Red to 0.640 (x), 0.330 (y), 21.26 (Y). Now assume I take my Red measurement and I get 0.635, 0.320, 20.26. Which CMS controls would I use and in which direction would I move them to make the needed adjustment. An explanation of that would explain what I and I believe Thrang (and others!) need to know. Thanks.
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post #275 of 1249 Old 11-12-2011, 09:04 PM
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You did select the HSL colorspace in the Chromapure Color Management Tab right?

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post #276 of 1249 Old 11-12-2011, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

You did select the HSL colorspace in the Chromapure Color Management Tab right?

I am not using Chromapure, but Thrang is.
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post #277 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 03:24 AM
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Just to agree with Geof I'm using the HSL setting in Chromapure when I adjust my Mini3D CMS. I'm not sure if Calman allows you to do this, but I'd be surprised if it didn't. It threw me a bit at first, but once you've set HSL it's really easy to adjust the CMS...takes me about 20 minutes after I've adjusted the greyscale and gamma first (about 20-30 minutes from scratch too).

Mini3D was the best upgrade I've done on my system: I've seen an X7 (RS50) in THX mode and it didn't really look any better than my lowly HD350 plus Mini3D apart from better motion. I'm sure an X7 plus Mini3D would look better, but I didn't see that combo and it saved me from wanting to upgrade.

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post #278 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I just got a Mini3D today (thanks Mark) and overall find it to be a great unit, better than the Duo. I'm using with the Chromapure (auto cal), and it generally does a very good job. But I am confused on how to adjust saturation, hue and lightness with the Mini - I understand you are using a different, and I suppose, more accurate model, but when manually tweaking CMS, if my Blue, Cyan and Magenta are showing a little over or under stauration, and some hue or lightness offset in Chromapure, how do I go about dusting this up?

Is there some more detailed documentation on the CMS operation, as to how things work, and what sequenced steps should be taken if I wanted to do a complete manual attempt?

I'm 98% there...



I understand Chromapure will come out with an upgrade early next year that will allow manual control of the Lumagen from within there software, so I presume manual tweaks will be easier as it will manage the translation of adjusting HSL into your model, but until then, some additional guidance would be appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Like Thrang, I too would greatly appreciate some tips on how to work with the color space used by the Radiance in their CMS. I am very familiar with how to determine the proper xyY targets for each of the primaries and secondaries.

However I'm not sure how when looking at a measured result how to go about adjusting the Radiance CMS controls to increase or decrease each of the x, y, and Y values to move it where I want it.

For example let's say I am trying to get Red to 0.640 (x), 0.330 (y), 21.26 (Y). Now assume I take my Red measurement and I get 0.635, 0.320, 20.26. Which CMS controls would I use and in which direction would I move them to make the needed adjustment. An explanation of that would explain what I and I believe Thrang (and others!) need to know. Thanks.

Hi both,

It's actually quite easy once you've got your head around it.

The principle is that you affect directly the RGB values for each color, adding or substracting the right channel(s) to get where you want to be.

So if luminance is too low for one color, you raise all RGB values in the same proportion (see below possible restriction).
If luminance is too high, you lower them in the same proportion.
For saturation and hue (slightly trickier), I suggest you read the following thread in the Radiance forum, it's pretty clear.
http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum...9d24#msg_15153, especially Gordon's post at the bottom of the page (and following).
I, like many others, prefer to use the matrix mode rather than the single color mode (except when adjusting gamut white, see below).
The most important thing when adjusting gamut is that if your luminance is too low for some colors to be adjusted, you need to lower gamut white, which will raise the relative luminance of all colors until no color has too low a luminance, as you can't raise luminance in the Radiance (unless you have already lowered it of course), only lower it.
See this thread http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum...hite#msg_17713 for more info on the gamut white adjustment.
Also always adjust RGB white balance at 100IRE using the gain controls in the display - when possible - to make sure you have a correct starting point for either a manual or autocal.

Workflow goes like this:
1) Set gains at 100IRE (using the display's controls) to get white right at that level.
2) Measure all colors
[step added following edit, see below] 2a) make sure you select a color profile in the display where all colors sit outside the rec-709 triangle. Undersaturation is NOT correctable.
3) If luminance is too low for any color, adjust gamut white (lower its luminance, ie lower RGB for gamut white in the same proportion) until no color has a low luminance, otherwise you won't be able to adjust it/them
4) Adjust each color (following method and Gordon's advice in linked thread), giving priority to luminance for primaries and hue for secondaries if you have to make compromises

I'm sure Jim and others will help if you're still stuck (or correct me if I'm wrong)

EDIT: Thrang, be aware that no external VP or internal CMS can correct UNDERSATURATION, ie it's not possible to invent colors that the display is not able to reproduce. When you measure your gamut before correction, if it shows undersaturation for any color, no calibration, auto or manual, will be able to correct it. You need to select a color profile in the display where ALL the colors are OUTSIDE the rec-709 triangle, or you won't be able to correct them. With the latest JVCs, it often means selecting profile off and using the service menu to correct the gains at 100IRE, but that's only possible if you have enough range in the controls (both in the PJ and the Radiance) to correct greyscale and gamut, as profile off gives a very green/blue greyscale and a very oversaturated gamut. Most of the time, you'll get bettter results living with the small undersaturation of a profile which is slightly undersaturated (yours seems absolutely fine!). Sometimes, trying to correct minor errors can actually produce WORSE results visually (adding posterization or clipping) even if your graphs and charts look nicer... All your dEs are below 1, which is a great result. It's unlikely any correction could improve this visually, provided your meter is accurate.
EDIT2: be careful when measuring blue, it's a notoriously difficult color to measure for most non pro spectros, especially if you're measuring off a large screen without zooming your patterns down, or if your lamp is getting old. If a DIY meter (even an i1pro) tells you it's undersaturated, it doesn't necessarily mean it actually is...
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post #279 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

You did select the HSL colorspace in the Chromapure Color Management Tab right?

I had but this was confusing compared to the lumagen model

But I've since I discovered the rgb ColorShare measurement option, it became clearer how to use the color decoder and gamut controls inside the mini3d. I've done another cal this way and is it outstanding

But I've uncovered a different issue - I was having problems with then mini staying locked onto a frame packed 3d signal from my blu ray player - every few minutes the screen would go blank, show a quick band of digital snow, and, a few seconds later, the image would return followed by the 3d emitter reactivating. Obviously not good, and certainly not good for my projector bulb, which is quickly cycling between low and high lamp mode (low is my standard, and high is enforced in the Sony for 3d) when watching sbs directv content, it appears stable without any loss of sync.

All source go through my classe ssp800 1.4 processed, and then to the lumagen (previously a duo) and then to the Sony vpl-vw95es. Going through the duo or direct to the Sony does not exhibit this issue with the Samsung blu ray player. I have a Sony blu ray player I will try this am as well...

I've tried both auto and yes in the 3d display type option in the lumagen, but not sure what else to check..

Any help on this, because I cannot keep the mini with this issue, despite it's stellar performance otherwise

I haven't yet checked what firmware I have and what's available, but I'm assuming for the moment that avs science stock is current...
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post #280 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 05:41 AM
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So the mini I received from AVS was several iterations old firmware wise, and I was having issues with frame-packed 3d staying in sync (projector would blank out ever few minutes and they come back)

I downloaded the latest firmware and applied as instructed - no errors, dialog box said it was successful. Turned the Lumagen back on, and it seems to be stuck in a reboot mode - no image, my projector alerntates between blu and black screen - I've even disconnected the input to the Mini, and it continues to to this. I tried unplugging, replugging, starting it up, and reconnecting with the firmware uploader within 10 seconds to see if I could reply the firmware, but it says there is a failure to connect with the Mini.

Is this thing bricked after 8 hours of calibrating work last night?

Any ideas how to get this back to life?

Thanks
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post #281 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 06:08 AM
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I was able to figure out how to reload the firmware within 10 seconds of replugging wer, but this did not change the condition

Now trying to update it with the original shipping version to see if if comes to like

What is the auto vs force option in the uploader?

Thanks
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post #282 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 06:18 AM
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Ok so I stepped back down to 090511, the version it shipped with, and it rebooted.

So are these update cumulative or incremental? Because i originally downloaded the latest and none of the interim updates. Do I need to update one at a time to get to the latest release?

Trying the 090911 version next...
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post #283 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 06:28 AM
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There is no need for incremental updating - each release contains all previous fixes. Are you 100% positive that the version you used to update (to a brick) was for the Mini3D?

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post #284 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 06:28 AM
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They aren't incremental I've jumped a few recently as I hadn't updated mine for a while. I'm successfully running 102111 but I did see on the Lumagen forum that someone had an issue when updating, though only that the Radiance didn't reboot afterwards. A manual restart seemed to sort it though.

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post #285 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

There is no need for incremental updating - each release contains all previous fixes. Are you 100% positive that the version you used to update (to a brick) was for the Mini3D?

Yes, I'm on the mini 3d download page

So far, two incremental updates have worked...I'll see where the failure occurs, if anywhere. But going directly to the latest prevented it from working, even after unplugging and replugging it in...
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post #286 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Yes, I'm on the mini 3d download page

So far, two incremental updates have worked...I'll see where the failure occurs, if anywhere. But going directly to the latest prevented it from working, even after unplugging and replugging it in...

I haven't had any issues with skipping right to the latest update. Lumagens' Tip 006 (Updating the Software) states: "You can download the latest software to your Radiance no matter what version of software is currently loaded." Not sure what's happened in your case but I'm interested to see how you make out (I haven't update my mini in a month or so).

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post #287 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I haven't had any issues with skipping right to the latest update. Lumagens' Tip 006 (Updating the Software) states: "You can download the latest software to your Radiance no matter what version of software is currently loaded." Not sure what's happened in your case but I'm interested to see how you make out (I haven't update my mini in a month or so).

Perplexing to me as we'll...maybe it had to do with my starting point and some bug jumping from that

So far I'm on the fourth incremental update and it is working...
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post #288 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 07:12 AM
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But even if I get through all the updates, I hope the 3d loss of sync issue I'm seeing is fixed, or it's all for naught...
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post #289 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 07:38 AM
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SO I can update up to and including 101811 firmware, but 102111 or 110111 causes the endless boot lockup on the unit...

Bad HW Mark?
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post #290 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

SO I can update up to and including 101811 firmware, but 102111 or 110111 causes the endless boot lockup on the unit...

Bad HW Mark?

That's interesting. Maybe there is something wrong with the bits you downloaded or its getting corrupted somehow?

Have others here upgraded their units to 102111 and 110111 without a problem?
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post #291 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Hi both,

It's actually quite easy once you've got your head around it.

The principle is that you affect directly the RGB values for each color, adding or substracting the right channel(s) to get where you want to be.

So if luminance is too low for one color, you raise all RGB values in the same proportion (see below possible restriction).
If luminance is too high, you lower them in the same proportion.
For saturation and hue (slightly trickier), I suggest you read the following thread in the Radiance forum, it's pretty clear.
http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum...9d24#msg_15153, especially Gordon's post at the bottom of the page (and following).
I, like many others, prefer to use the matrix mode rather than the single color mode (except when adjusting gamut white, see below).
The most important thing when adjusting gamut is that if your luminance is too low for some colors to be adjusted, you need to lower gamut white, which will raise the relative luminance of all colors until no color has too low a luminance, as you can't raise luminance in the Radiance (unless you have already lowered it of course), only lower it.
See this thread http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum...hite#msg_17713 for more info on the gamut white adjustment.
Also always adjust RGB white balance at 100IRE using the gain controls in the display - when possible - to make sure you have a correct starting point for either a manual or autocal.

Workflow goes like this:
1) Set gains at 100IRE (using the display's controls) to get white right at that level.
2) Measure all colors
[step added following edit, see below] 2a) make sure you select a color profile in the display where all colors sit outside the rec-709 triangle. Undersaturation is NOT correctable.
3) If luminance is too low for any color, adjust gamut white (lower its luminance, ie lower RGB for gamut white in the same proportion) until no color has a low luminance, otherwise you won't be able to adjust it/them
4) Adjust each color (following method and Gordon's advice in linked thread), giving priority to luminance for primaries and hue for secondaries if you have to make compromises

I'm sure Jim and others will help if you're still stuck (or correct me if I'm wrong)

EDIT: Thrang, be aware that no external VP or internal CMS can correct UNDERSATURATION, ie it's not possible to invent colors that the display is not able to reproduce. When you measure your gamut before correction, if it shows undersaturation for any color, no calibration, auto or manual, will be able to correct it. You need to select a color profile in the display where ALL the colors are OUTSIDE the rec-709 triangle, or you won't be able to correct them. With the latest JVCs, it often means selecting profile off and using the service menu to correct the gains at 100IRE, but that's only possible if you have enough range in the controls (both in the PJ and the Radiance) to correct greyscale and gamut, as profile off gives a very green/blue greyscale and a very oversaturated gamut. Most of the time, you'll get bettter results living with the small undersaturation of a profile which is slightly undersaturated (yours seems absolutely fine!). Sometimes, trying to correct minor errors can actually produce WORSE results visually (adding posterization or clipping) even if your graphs and charts look nicer... All your dEs are below 1, which is a great result. It's unlikely any correction could improve this visually, provided your meter is accurate.
EDIT2: be careful when measuring blue, it's a notoriously difficult color to measure for most non pro spectros, especially if you're measuring off a large screen without zooming your patterns down, or if your lamp is getting old. If a DIY meter (even an i1pro) tells you it's undersaturated, it doesn't necessarily mean it actually is...

Manny,

Thanks - this is brilliant! Makes total sense. Just a few follow up questions please:

1) It makes sense that the Lumagen can only reduce Y, and that lowering Y for white in the Lumagen is a good trick if Y for all 6 colors is not enough to begin with.

However I was wondering - does this have the affect of lowering the overall light output of the projector? It seems to me it would, which would then also compress the dynamic range and result in a lower ON/OFF contrast.

So instead, couldn't you just raise the Color control in the display, instead of lowering Y for white in the Lumagen? I say this because my understanding is that the Color control basically just increases Y for each of the 6 colors. Of course this assumes the Color control is implemented properly, but assuming it is...

2) So clearly the workflow should start by setting the display's brightness, then contrast, then gains at 100%. But my question is this - do you think its best do grayscale and gamma before the CMS work, or do you like to do the CMS work first?

It seems that if you will be using the Lumagen to lower Y for white, then you would want to do the CMS first. Otherwise perhaps the grayscale/gamma should be done first?

3) Are there any circumstances where you would want to adjust little x and y (xy) for white in the Lumagen? I would think this is not necessary if you have the gains and grayscale set properly in the first place. But then again, since this control is there, it seems there may be a situation where it would be helpful or necessary. Just trying to understand what that would be.

Thanks!
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post #292 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

SO I can update up to and including 101811 firmware, but 102111 or 110111 causes the endless boot lockup on the unit...

Bad HW Mark?

I'll try updating mine later today and let you know what happens....

Geof
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post #293 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Manny,

Thanks - this is brilliant! Makes total sense. Just a few follow up questions please:

1) It makes sense that the Lumagen can only reduce Y, and that lowering Y for white in the Lumagen is a good trick if Y for all 6 colors is not enough to begin with.

However I was wondering - does this have the affect of lowering the overall light output of the projector? It seems to me it would, which would then also compress the dynamic range and result in a lower ON/OFF contrast.

So instead, couldn't you just raise the Color control in the display, instead of lowering Y for white in the Lumagen? I say this because my understanding is that the Color control basically just increases Y for each of the 6 colors. Of course this assumes the Color control is implemented properly, but assuming it is...

2) So clearly the workflow should start by setting the display's brightness, then contrast, then gains at 100%. But my question is this - do you think its best do grayscale and gamma before the CMS work, or do you like to do the CMS work first?

It seems that if you will be using the Lumagen to lower Y for white, then you would want to do the CMS first. Otherwise perhaps the grayscale/gamma should be done first?

3) Are there any circumstances where you would want to adjust little x and y (xy) for white in the Lumagen? I would think this is not necessary if you have the gains and grayscale set properly in the first place. But then again, since this control is there, it seems there may be a situation where it would be helpful or necessary. Just trying to understand what that would be.

Thanks!

Hi Ric,

You're welcome. Glad to help when I can, you've taught me so much...

Here is my take on your follow-up questions:

1) yes, it does affect the overall brightness and contrast, but so does almost any calibration. You can indeed raise the color control on the display, as long as it doesn't create other problems (I'm thinking linearity with saturations). In my experience, the color control has more effect on the luminance of the primaries than the secondaries. I usually leave it alone when I'm using the Radiance to correct the gamut.

2) I always do gamut work before gamma, because I don't think you want to correct a gamut when gamma corrections are applied. The only exception to this is that I correct 100IRE with the gain controls in the display, to have a proper starting point. The other reason is because I correct the gamut with my i1pro facing the screen, and only when the gamut is correct I trained myChroma5 facing the PJ to the i1pro facing the screen to work on greyscale/gamma. I do not entirely trust working on the gamut from a trained metter. It does work if the changes are not drastic, but I believe you lose a bit in accuracy given the way the profiles are calculated (from the primaries). The i1pro has no problems correcting the gains at 100IRE, so this is my favorite way to proceed.

3) If you can't adjust the gains properly in the display, then you can of course use the controls in the Radiance to correct x,y while you adjust Y. The advantage is that as I understand it corrects white at all levels, not only at 100IRE. The downside is that if you need to switch the color profile off on your display and get a very wrong greyscale to start with, you might not have enough range in the radiance to get 100IRE correct without creating unwanted side-effects. Out of 1024 steps, I think Lumagen recommend not going beyond 400 steps in any direction if at all possible to preserve PQ. Also, in the end the loss of brightness is identical. So I - and others - recommend adjusting 100IRE with the display controls (this means using the service menu in the JVCs if you switch the profiles off as the user gains are not accessible anymore in that case).

Again, I'm sure Jim and others will correct me if I'm wrong or if they can offer preferable alternatives depending on the display, as my experience is restricted to the JVCs.
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post #294 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 11:34 AM
 
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Lumagen frequently makes software fixes and improvements and it is very likely that shelf stock, though very recent will not have the latest software. I tend to check back about once a month to se if I need to load new software into mu own Lumagen but unless you have a problem or need a recently added feature, there really is no need to stay current. Every software update is a reload of the entire software package and if you missed an inbetween update there is absolutely no need to load it. I can't stress enough about doing RGB 100IRE white by your display controls first and setting your display to the widest color space it will do.
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post #295 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 11:35 AM
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I'll try updating mine later today and let you know what happens....

According to Jim, who emailed me before, this is a known issue with the updater - whether it affects all or some units, I don't know yet...they are working on a fix apparently.
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post #296 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 11:39 AM
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I don't know if it has any bearing on the matter, but I always use my old Toshiba (600Mhz ) laptop for updates as it has a serial port built in. It runs Windows 2000 too, if that makes any difference.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #297 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 11:59 AM
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According to Jim, who emailed me before, this is a known issue with the updater - whether it affects all or some units, I don't know yet...they are working on a fix apparently.

Well given that info I won't update just yet since I'm not having any issues. Thanks for passing that along....How are you making out on the 3D problem??

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post #298 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 12:00 PM
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I don't know if it has any bearing on the matter, but I always use my old Toshiba (600Mhz ) laptop for updates as it has a serial port built in. It runs Windows 2000 too, if that makes any difference.

I've had no issues using a Mac running XP. I wonder if 32 v 64 bit OS makes a difference?

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post #299 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 12:26 PM
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I've had no issues using a Mac running XP. I wonder if 32 v 64 bit OS makes a difference?

I updated all f/w until the latest as of today using an MBP running Win7 Ultimate x64 on Bootcamp, and I had no problem whatsoever.
I'm using a Keyspan adapter though (com3, 57600bps), and they are very good.
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post #300 of 1249 Old 11-13-2011, 12:35 PM
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I can't stress enough about do RGB 100IRE white by your display controls first and setting your display to the widest color space it will do.

Agreed with the 100IRE white, but selecting the widest color space means possibly more correction than necessary, which can lead to other issues. What you want is a color space where all the colors (before correction) sit outside of rec-709, and which offers good linearity at different saturation and stimulus levels.

For example, on the JVC X7, the widest color space (and sometimes the only one which allows all colors to be corrected by an external VP) is colour profiles off, but the gamut is so wide and the greyscale is so off that it might be an option when the lamp is new (and the red deficiency is not too bad), but after a few hundred hours 100IRE is not correctable anymore using the service menu (the range is too limited) and you need to find a better compromise, which might be a coulour profile where one color (usually blue) is slightly undersaturated, and therefore uncorrectable. As blue is the least noticeable color when it's wrong (as it represents only about 8% of the whole luminance), it doesn't necessarily matter visually.

Colour profile off also means that you have no access to the user settings (including CMS, sharpness, dark/bright, color temp, CMD) which means you have to correct color temp using the gains in the service menu, but you lose all the other display controls, which for some can be a compromise too far.
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