Official Lumagen RadianceMini 3D thread. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1277 Old 03-09-2012, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afss View Post

Hello,

Was anybody sucessfull using the capability of converting 3D-SBS to frame-pack 3D at the mini3D ?

I have a file that is 1080p 23.97fps, containing side-by-side 3D. It's being played off my OPPO BDP93. My output is setup to 3D auto (goes to a JVC RS40 projector), but nothing happens from the mini3D perspective. The image is passed as standard 1080p, and I see each half of the screen with left/right eye information.

When I go to the mini3D menus, I try to find a place to specify that the input is 3D SBS, but could not find it.

Please, appreciate if anybody has been succesfull on doing this before.

Thanks in advance !

Try change your projector 3D setting to SBS and see if it work.
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post #452 of 1277 Old 03-09-2012, 06:04 AM
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Thanks for the reply, but I don't want to use SBS on the projector, as the 3D performance is inferior (pannels would be working on 120Hz, thus showing more ghosting).

The idea is to use Frame-Packed 3D, which drives the projector into 96Hz mode, with the best 3D performance overall.

The mini3D supports this feature, so just looking for a way to make it work.

Regards.

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Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Try change your projector 3D setting to SBS and see if it work.

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post #453 of 1277 Old 03-09-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afss View Post

Thanks for the reply, but I don't want to use SBS on the projector, as the 3D performance is inferior (pannels would be working on 120Hz, thus showing more ghosting).

The idea is to use Frame-Packed 3D, which drives the projector into 96Hz mode, with the best 3D performance overall.

The mini3D supports this feature, so just looking for a way to make it work.

Regards.

Oh.. I did not know that mini can change SBS to frame-pack. Would be good to know how too as well.
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post #454 of 1277 Old 03-09-2012, 11:35 AM
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What is the source for this 1080p24 SbS video? Is it from satellite?

Randy Freeman
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post #455 of 1277 Old 03-09-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afss View Post

Thanks for the reply, but I don't want to use SBS on the projector, as the 3D performance is inferior (pannels would be working on 120Hz, thus showing more ghosting).

The idea is to use Frame-Packed 3D, which drives the projector into 96Hz mode, with the best 3D performance overall.

The mini3D supports this feature, so just looking for a way to make it work.

Regards.

I've been trying to get this sbs auto-conversion to work with game consoles as a source.....any guidance would be most appreciated.
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post #456 of 1277 Old 03-09-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfpublic View Post

The RadianceMini is packaged in a small metal case and the case serves as the heatsink to cool the unit. Setting the Mini directly on top of a hot amplifier is not recommended.

Randy Freeman

Randy,

I've isolated the Mini3D and recently have been getting the picture freezes again when the unit is used over 2 hrs. Any advice?
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post #457 of 1277 Old 03-09-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

I've been trying to get this sbs auto-conversion to work with game consoles as a source.....any guidance would be most appreciated.

Currently there is no way to set up this conversion. This is the first time anyone has asked for this. Normally everyone uses a mode that is faster than 24 Hz for playing games. The 24 Hz modes are primarily used for watching movies. What game console are you using?

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post #458 of 1277 Old 03-09-2012, 08:21 PM
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I asked for a similar feature about a year ago in the XD thread. I wanted top and bottom converted to frame packed because the projector displayed much better at 96Hz than 120Hz. This would be useful for my cable system witch has all of its 3D as top and bottom. The response I received is that they were working on it. I don't know if they are but it is still not a feature.
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post #459 of 1277 Old 03-12-2012, 06:55 AM
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Here is an extract from the firmware list:

Production 040111 Adds conversion of 720/1080 side-by-side 3D to frame-packed 3D (need to have Input:Video Setup:RES:3D OutSelect set to "Auto"). Also adds converting from side-by-side to frame-sequential 3D (used by CRT's) and for this you must select an output mode and 3D type in the 3D OutSelect menu. Note: currently side-by-side 3D sources cannot be cropped or adjusted for aspect scaling but we will be adding this ability in soon.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef View Post

I asked for a similar feature about a year ago in the XD thread. I wanted top and bottom converted to frame packed because the projector displayed much better at 96Hz than 120Hz. This would be useful for my cable system witch has all of its 3D as top and bottom. The response I received is that they were working on it. I don't know if they are but it is still not a feature.

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post #460 of 1277 Old 03-12-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfpublic View Post

Currently there is no way to set up this conversion. This is the first time anyone has asked for this. Normally everyone uses a mode that is faster than 24 Hz for playing games. The 24 Hz modes are primarily used for watching movies. What game console are you using?

Randy, converting side-by-side 3D to frame-packed 3D would be useful in conjunction with certain 2D-to-3D conversion boxes, such as the 3D Bee, which converts 2D imagery to side-by-side 3D. My display (JVC RS40 projector) has really lousy peformance with tons of bad crosstalk on side-by-side input signals, but fares much better with frame-packed 3D.

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post #461 of 1277 Old 03-12-2012, 11:54 PM
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Strongly considering this unit to go with my new Epson 5010 and the Chromapure/auto calibration set up already purchased. IF I do this what is a great direct source 3D player to compliment this set up besides the Oppo?
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post #462 of 1277 Old 03-19-2012, 10:23 PM
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Lumagen now ordered. Next need is a good direct source 3D player with dual outs. suggestions?
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post #463 of 1277 Old 03-19-2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motovet View Post

lumagen now ordered. Next need is a good direct source 3d player with dual outs. Suggestions?

oppo bdp-93

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post #464 of 1277 Old 03-19-2012, 11:10 PM
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With recent research it looks like I may need to spend the extra dough, but I was also hoping the new panasonics did it as well. I do need the netflix streaming as well so.....
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post #465 of 1277 Old 03-20-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchPope View Post

oppo bdp-93

You mean like this?

OPPO BDP-93
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post #466 of 1277 Old 03-20-2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

You mean like this?

OPPO BDP-93

Yep, just like that. I tried it twice. Once I hit submit, it showed up in lowercase. Gremlins, I suspect.

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post #467 of 1277 Old 03-21-2012, 07:08 PM
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Oppo on the way.
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post #468 of 1277 Old 03-22-2012, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motovet View Post

Oppo on the way.

You won't regret it.

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post #469 of 1277 Old 03-23-2012, 01:09 PM
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Well, I installed my new mini last night. I didn't have time to do much but leave it on most factory default settings with the exception of the aspect ratio output. I tried 3 different media:

AT&T U-Verse: I could see an improvement sports motion in particular.

OPPO SD DVD: I didn't get much of an opporunity to compare the mini's performance to the OPPO's internal scaling, but just wanted to see a bit of a dvd. I did notice a distinct lack of ringing, which was a benefit that we all know lumagen markets their units on.

OPPO Blu Ray: Here's what I found distressing.....I slipped in the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo (US remake). I had read outstanding comments about the PQ. Right away I noticed in the second chapter, video noise on the wall between Daniel Craig and Christopher Plummer. That seemed contrary to the reveiws. I took the Anthem receiver out of the loop. Still there was noise. I took the mini our the loop and the image looked terrific. Running the OPPO through the Anthem or directly to the projector (without the mini) showed an ideal PQ.

What could be causing this issue? I would have thought 1080P in and 1080P out (which I confirmed) would not add any issues....but I assume there is something I am missing.

Thanks for any assitance

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post #470 of 1277 Old 03-23-2012, 02:40 PM
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Do you have any hdmi cables shorter than 6 ft in the video path? We've seen numerous noise issues with little 3 ft hdmi cables.

If answer to above question is a "no" then try temporarily setting the Mini output to 480p (press "menu 021") and see if the noise is eliminated. If it's eliminated then there's a bandwidth issue from the Mini to the display--check cables, etc. If not then it's either noise on the input path or a faulty Mini.

Another test to perform, press "menu 0939". Does this eliminate the noise. If so, then contact your dealer or Lumagen.

Patrick Harkin, Lumagen Inc. engineer
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post #471 of 1277 Old 03-27-2012, 10:40 PM
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This is a bit concerning for a potential buyer and someone who has used quite a bit of various equipment.

This product could potentially add noise to the picture due an hdmi cable length? I have some short run hdmi cables and I dont want to clutter things up with un-necessarily long runs.

Thats mind boggling. Could rboster update if this issue is fixed. And how noticeable was this, could this go unnoticed for an untrained eye?
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post #472 of 1277 Old 03-28-2012, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

This is a bit concerning for a potential buyer and someone who has used quite a bit of various equipment.

This product could potentially add noise to the picture due an hdmi cable length? I have some short run hdmi cables and I dont want to clutter things up with un-necessarily long runs.

Thats mind boggling. Could rboster update if this issue is fixed. And how noticeable was this, could this go unnoticed for an untrained eye?

Nobody else who owns a Radiance unit has mentioned this effect. Lumagen have written on this site and on the support forum for their products, that hdmi send receive chipsets are eq'd for runs over 6feet (they don't eq them for 6ft it's just the design of the chip). When trying to help their customers overcome hdmi issues they have often found that the cause of problems has been too short cable, rather than too long. Any manufacturer of an HDMI product using these chipsets could have the same issue. The only reason we even know about it is probably because Lumagen have a common sense policy to customer service. ie, they tell the consumer like it is...and they also actually know, in depth, what they are talking about. Unlike most of the folk at the end of the phone in a customer support role for a consumer electronics company.

I can understand you don't want to change cables unless it is necessary. It may well be that with some devices with certain content, it may be necessary. It may not be though. I have plenty of clients using short cables. It's just a suggestion by Lumagen that if you do have hdmi issues then it's a good place to start by looking there.

I am sure they are working to help this customer get to the bottom of what he is seeing. I'm also pretty sure that if you got a Radiance you'd be a happy viewer.

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post #473 of 1277 Old 03-28-2012, 07:35 AM
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sorry that I haven't updated my situation. My HT is influx due to repainting the room....which I finished yesterday. I should have things back up and running by this weekend....in time for KU Jayhawks to beat Ohio State

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post #474 of 1277 Old 03-28-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

...hdmi send receive chipsets are eq'd for runs over 6feet (they don't eq them for 6ft it's just the design of the chip). When trying to help their customers overcome hdmi issues they have often found that the cause of problems has been too short cable, rather than too long. Any manufacturer of an HDMI product using these chipsets could have the same issue...

I don't own a Mini (yet) but my setup uses a couple very short HDMI cables... only makes sense when connections are inisde the same cabinet. But one thing I've noticed is how short cables can be very stiff, which could have an adverse effect on the connection, especially considering the poor holding connectors HDMI uses to begin with. Just a thought.
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post #475 of 1277 Old 03-28-2012, 08:41 AM
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All of my HDMI cables are 3 ft except the ones from the receiver to the Mini and the Mini to the tv. I've never had a problem with mine.
I also got rid of my heavy HDMI cables and from what I've seen on my short cable runs there is no difference. I've already destroyed one of my TV's HDMI inputs with a heavy cable.

Mike

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post #476 of 1277 Old 03-28-2012, 08:46 AM
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Update: I ran home this morning for different reason...double checked my cable length....I do not have 6ft cables in the path between the source and the mini...so I placed an order this am for a pair of 6 footers...hopefully delivered on Saturday.

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post #477 of 1277 Old 03-28-2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

...I slipped in the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo (US remake). I had read outstanding comments about the PQ. Right away I noticed in the second chapter, video noise on the wall between Daniel Craig and Christopher Plummer. ... Ron

Ron:

Make sure the player is sending 4:2:2 to the Radiance and that the player is sending 1080p24 for blurays (Press OK on the Radiance remote to see what we are getting for input rate).

The Radiance defaults to RGB output since there are (still) displays/projectors that have issues with 4:2:2 inputs. Change the Radiance output to 4:2:2 (Output->Style menu). This will get you 12-bit out of the Radiance and might improve the noise you are seeing. If you still have issues then, please contact us at support@lumagen.com and we can talk about other possibilities.

-----

Note on short cables: Hdmi 1.0 and 1.1 do not have the cable EQ and so if you have these older HDMI devices on both ends short cables are fine. If you have HDMI 1.3 or HDMI 1.4 then both the transmitters and receivers have static cable EQ which is optimized for a fairly long cable (I estimate 20 to 30 feet or so). Anyone who uses these chips has EQ and so will have the potential for issues with short HDMI cables. This is NOT something speicific to Lumagen as Gordon pointed out. It's just that we were able to figure out why people were having issues with short cables at 1080p50/60. Note that the issue is less with sources running 1080i or 720p or less.

Jim Peterson
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post #478 of 1277 Old 03-28-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Randy,

I've isolated the Mini3D and recently have been getting the picture freezes again when the unit is used over 2 hrs. Any advice?

Does the Mini still respond when you have a frozen picture and can you bring up the Menu or change inputs?

It is possible there is a "weak" or "flipped" bit in the flash. You could try doing an update to the latest software. Click the "force" option to make it load the software into the flash again even if you have the current software.

When you say you have isolated the Mini, does that mean it is in a cool place with good airflow over it? We designed it to use the case as a heatsink as Randy mentioned and it is possible it would get a bit too warm with not much convection airflow. Best is to mount it vertically with nothing in front of it which is why we have the mounting tabs on it.

Jim Peterson
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post #479 of 1277 Old 03-28-2012, 11:04 PM
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I can make "video noise" appeared when the player is set to output 1080p/50/60hz on Bluray materials that are 1080p24 based , the noise is most noticeable if you output 4/2/2 to the PJ , lesser on RGB , when the the player is set to output "direct" or "auto" that is outputing 1080p24 on most bluray material , the noise disappeared , I have a Mini outputing to Epson 6010 recently installed , was not so obvious on just off the ceiling mount Sony VW85 , mightbe the noise is also PJ dependent ! I do not think cable length pay any important role here - at least in my case . 2 meters to Mini & 2 meters to PJ , also tried 3 meters to Mini and 1 meter to PJ , same result . No noise if players correct set .

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post #480 of 1277 Old 04-02-2012, 11:14 AM
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Jim: You hit the nail on the head. When I changed both the player and the mini's output to 4:2:2 setting, the noise went away. Before I made that change, I did install the two 6ft cables and noticed less noise, but still some there. The setting change took the noise out of the picture completely.

Thanks for everyone's response....it's been very helpful

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