Official Lumagen RadianceMini 3D thread. - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1277 Old 08-30-2012, 02:29 AM
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IFD sets the sensitity of the filmmode detection. If you have mixed content (e.g. TV shows which are shot on film, but have scrolling banner text which is a video overlay, or commercial breaks or mixed material in general), then the deinterlacer has to decide wether to apply video deinterlacing or film deinterlacing to that part of the picture. If film deinterlacing (weaving) is applied to video material you get combing errors. Pausing your TV picture doesn't help, you need moving material. The areas in which I noticed combing on the Radiance is when you watch TV interviews and pay attention to the persons' mouths (or corner of their mouths). There's often little movement on the faces, so weaving is applied, but due to the talking, there's movement in the mouth area and when the deinterlacer isn't good or fast enough to detect this, you get get combing there. Just try to record a bunch of interviews and look for errors. You can then play back the same scenes over and over again and experiment with the IFD setting.

Reinterlacing only makes sense for 480p, 576p and 1080p (DVDO offers it on 1080p as well, while Lumagen does not). Reinterlacing is only possible if the video stream has not previously been scaled. If you set your cable box to 720p for SD channels, the channels have been scaled already. To watch 720p HD channels with 1080i output isn't ideal, but the Lumagen is a great machine, so it's ok tongue.gif
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post #542 of 1277 Old 08-30-2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

IFD sets the sensitity of the filmmode detection. If you have mixed content (e.g. TV shows which are shot on film, but have scrolling banner text which is a video overlay, or commercial breaks or mixed material in general), then the deinterlacer has to decide wether to apply video deinterlacing or film deinterlacing to that part of the picture. If film deinterlacing (weaving) is applied to video material you get combing errors. Pausing your TV picture doesn't help, you need moving material. The areas in which I noticed combing on the Radiance is when you watch TV interviews and pay attention to the persons' mouths (or corner of their mouths). There's often little movement on the faces, so weaving is applied, but due to the talking, there's movement in the mouth area and when the deinterlacer isn't good or fast enough to detect this, you get get combing there. Just try to record a bunch of interviews and look for errors. You can then play back the same scenes over and over again and experiment with the IFD setting.
Reinterlacing only makes sense for 480p, 576p and 1080p (DVDO offers it on 1080p as well, while Lumagen does not). Reinterlacing is only possible if the video stream has not previously been scaled. If you set your cable box to 720p for SD channels, the channels have been scaled already. To watch 720p HD channels with 1080i output isn't ideal, but the Lumagen is a great machine, so it's ok tongue.gif

Thanks for the great explanation! So this means the values closer to 0 will have the mini3D applying film mode deinterlacing so the foreground assuming its film base programmes being clear but scrolling text if any being blur or combing. I will assume that this does not have much effect if the programme is video base right? This should mean that for cabletv type prograames like TV series and most reality shows and sports, its still better to have IFD at 7 or higher. This should not matter for bluray as most are film base programme except for concerts type programmes. Did I get it right?

I do not understand why reinterlacing does not make sense for 720p but does for 1080p? My box does not allow me to pause or record unless I upgrade to a higher fee plan. And every change in resolution has to be done in the system menu with a 5 sec test to ensure it works correctly. This makes comparing the difference a little difficult what with the compression artefacts and different sections you are viewing after the change. I am less concern with SD channels as I avoid them if possible. Most of the new programmes are shot in HD at this time. However, are most programmes shot in 1080i or 720p? I guess its moot as I understand from a engineer from my provider that they broadcast in 720p. To scaling or deinterlacing is done already at their end. Their also do not support native output which is a bummer.
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post #543 of 1277 Old 08-31-2012, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverlim View Post

I do not understand why reinterlacing does not make sense for 720p but does for 1080p? .

From what little I understand, both 1080i and 720p use approximately the equivalent bandwith. It's your choice, you just have to stay within the same bandwith space limitaiton.
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post #544 of 1277 Old 08-31-2012, 04:27 PM
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re-interlacing only makes sense for 1080p content that was originally broadcast as 1080i. it makes no sense for SD material upscaled to 1080P. It would only make sense for 720P material if the original broadcast was 720i.....but there is no such standard.

The purpose of the re-interlace features is to get back to the original, unprocessed and uncorrupted broadcast fields. Any scaling of the original content makes this impossible.

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post #545 of 1277 Old 09-04-2012, 09:37 PM
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Some p0rn for you guys:
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post #546 of 1277 Old 09-04-2012, 10:25 PM
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My setup got 4 sources and 2 output, wonder how you guys handle similar situation and what hardware, like HDMI switches you are using to overcome the Mini's limit on HDMI I/O. Thanks.

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post #547 of 1277 Old 09-05-2012, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazishere View Post

From what little I understand, both 1080i and 720p use approximately the equivalent bandwith. It's your choice, you just have to stay within the same bandwith space limitaiton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

re-interlacing only makes sense for 1080p content that was originally broadcast as 1080i. it makes no sense for SD material upscaled to 1080P. It would only make sense for 720P material if the original broadcast was 720i.....but there is no such standard.
The purpose of the re-interlace features is to get back to the original, unprocessed and uncorrupted broadcast fields. Any scaling of the original content makes this impossible.

Thanks guys. Got it.
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post #548 of 1277 Old 09-05-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breadvan View Post

My setup got 4 sources and 2 output, wonder how you guys handle similar situation and what hardware, like HDMI switches you are using to overcome the Mini's limit on HDMI I/O. Thanks.

My setup has 3 sources (PVR, BluRay player and PC). I connect two sources through my AV processor (PVR & PC) so it does the switching and then the output of that goes to one input on the Mini3D. The BluRay player goes directly to the second input on the Mini3D, but this is just because my processor is an older model that won't pass 3D and I thought it might cause issues (I don't watch 3D or have a 3D display).

On the output of the Mini3D I had a 4 way HDMI splitter (unfortunately it failed recently), I used 3 of the outputs for a projector and TV in the same room and a second TV in a nearby room. Using the MemA, MemB & MemC memories I could use settings that ensured I saw a fully calibrated image on the appropriate display (and only 1080i output for the second TV as it can't accept 1080p input).

This, plus the various input/resolution memories that the Mini3D has makes it much more flexible than you might first think.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #549 of 1277 Old 09-05-2012, 06:31 PM
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Thanks very much for the info., a confidence boast no doubt.

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post #550 of 1277 Old 09-06-2012, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breadvan View Post

My setup got 4 sources and 2 output, wonder how you guys handle similar situation and what hardware, like HDMI switches you are using to overcome the Mini's limit on HDMI I/O. Thanks.

Well an obvious way to deal with it would be to use a Radiance XS3D instead of a mini3d. Or you can use other boxes as Kelvin has said.

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post #551 of 1277 Old 09-06-2012, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

Well an obvious way to deal with it would be to use a Radiance XS3D instead of a mini3d. Or you can use other boxes as Kelvin has said.

Yeah that would be nice if I could swing that kind of $$ !

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post #552 of 1277 Old 09-09-2012, 10:30 PM
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Hi,

looking to buy a Radiance Mini 3D, especially now with the new color cube processing...

Since it only has 2 inputs (but much more internal memories), is it possible to connect a HDMI hub to one of the inputs to use more HDMI sources ?

If so, how do I change between the internal Mini memories for all the sources of the HDMI hub ? Does the Mini recognize the different sources and then switches automatically to the associated memory / calibration profile or do I have to do everything manually (as in: manually switch the source on the HDMI hub and then manually switch to the necessary memory on the Mini) ?

Also, what HDMI hubs/ switches would you recommend ?

Thanks.

- M

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post #553 of 1277 Old 09-09-2012, 10:51 PM
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The RadianceMini has six HDMI inputs, two physical inputs, and four virtual inputs.

For example; you can connect HDMI input 1 on the Mini to a receiver or HDMI switch. Then you can select HDMI input 2 through HDMI input 6 and set these inputs to use HDMI input 1 for the signal. This way you have the full settings and memory capabilities of each input but they all use the same physical input HDMI 1.

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post #554 of 1277 Old 09-09-2012, 11:15 PM
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@ Randy: thank you for the detailed explanation, completely makes sense.

Am I assuming correctly though, that the Mini does not recognize device changes coming through the same HDMI input (meaning I have to manually switch to the correct sub-memory) ?

Also, do you have any recommendations for high quality HDMI switches ?

Thanks again.

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post #555 of 1277 Old 09-10-2012, 01:07 AM
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If you have two products attached to the switch, that both output the same signal type, say 1080i60, then the mini cannot differentiate between them and you would have to press a different input button or memory button to invoke settings specific to each product.

As each input and input memory has further sub memories which are specific to different resolutions it is possible to have multiple sources using the same input and memory , with no user intervention.

ie, a DVD player outputting 480i, BD player outputting 1080i60 and 1080p24 and a cable box outputting 720p could all share the same input and memory and still have different settings specific to each unit.

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post #556 of 1277 Old 09-10-2012, 01:22 AM
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@ Gordon: thank you, makes sense

Regarding calibration:

I assume the integrated calibration patterns are very useful but it probably makes more sense to use a pattern disc on the source device (e.g. Blu-Ray player, PS3 etc.) b/c one wants to calibrate for their specific signal output ?

Thanks.

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post #557 of 1277 Old 09-10-2012, 10:49 AM
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In this scenario, you would select the HDMI input on the receiver or switch and you would separately choose the input on the RadianceMini.

Please send an email to support@lumagen.com about your HDMI switch question.

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post #558 of 1277 Old 09-10-2012, 10:55 AM
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By far the easiest and most accurate way, to calibrate your display, is to use the internal test pattern generator in the Radiance.

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post #559 of 1277 Old 09-10-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

If you have two products attached to the switch, that both output the same signal type, say 1080i60, then the mini cannot differentiate between them and you would have to press a different input button or memory button to invoke settings specific to each product.
As each input and input memory has further sub memories which are specific to different resolutions it is possible to have multiple sources using the same input and memory , with no user intervention.
ie, a DVD player outputting 480i, BD player outputting 1080i60 and 1080p24 and a cable box outputting 720p could all share the same input and memory and still have different settings specific to each unit.
The other option is to use a remote with macro capability: One could program a macro to switch the AV Receiver to the desired HDMI source and also switch the Mini to the desirable Memory configuration. It's one button push and virtually fool proof....

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post #560 of 1277 Old 09-13-2012, 03:47 PM
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New Lumagen 125-point CMS (5x5x5 color cube)

The latest Radiance software adds a 125-point CMS color calibration.
http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=updates

Calman and Chromapure will be posting new versions of their automatic calibration software with support for this new feature.

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post #561 of 1277 Old 09-13-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfpublic View Post

New Lumagen 125-point CMS (5x5x5 color cube)
The latest Radiance software adds a 125-point CMS color calibration.
http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=updates
Calman and Chromapure will be posting new versions of their automatic calibration software with support for this new feature.
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Kudo's to everyone at Lumagen for dreaming this gem up. Can't wait to give it a test drive....smile.gif

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post #562 of 1277 Old 09-13-2012, 04:17 PM
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Some first hand reports of how well the 125 point cube calibration works: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1427834/radiance-3d-lut-5x5x5-cube-calibration-with-calman-5/60#post_22400106

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post #563 of 1277 Old 09-16-2012, 03:30 PM
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Hi, could anyone post their manual timings for 1080p output? I have a VPS3300 and am having blacking issues (source shows up then goes black over and over).
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post #564 of 1277 Old 09-16-2012, 07:42 PM
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to clarify: he needs the timings of the 2nd (alternative) 1080p60 timing the Radiance units offer once you switch to 1080p60.
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post #565 of 1277 Old 09-22-2012, 03:50 AM
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Hi,

I have 3 questions about the lumagen mini, I hopy you guys can help me out.

1. Is it true that the difference between the mini and the other lumagen radiance units is only the in and outputs? The functionality/performance otherwise is identical?

2. I have about 4 or 5 devices that need to be connected to my tv. Now they are plugged into my Onkyo TX-NR597 AV receiver, and 1 HDMI runs from my Onkyo to my tv. Would connecting the Radiance mini between my receiver and my tv give me all the functionality of the mini?

3. I have, for bluray watching, a PS3 slim and a Panasonic 65VT50. Would I still benefit from the radiance mini? Would it help me to overcome the lousy European firmware running on my tv that keeps my ISF controls-setting way too dark?

Thanks!
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post #566 of 1277 Old 09-22-2012, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter73 View Post

Hi,
I have 3 questions about the lumagen mini, I hopy you guys can help me out.
1. Is it true that the difference between the mini and the other lumagen radiance units is only the in and outputs? The functionality/performance otherwise is identical?
2. I have about 4 or 5 devices that need to be connected to my tv. Now they are plugged into my Onkyo TX-NR597 AV receiver, and 1 HDMI runs from my Onkyo to my tv. Would connecting the Radiance mini between my receiver and my tv give me all the functionality of the mini?
3. I have, for bluray watching, a PS3 slim and a Panasonic 65VT50. Would I still benefit from the radiance mini? Would it help me to overcome the lousy European firmware running on my tv that keeps my ISF controls-setting way too dark?
Thanks!

1: No it is not true. Peformance is the same but functionaility is not. XE/XD have Picture in Picture. Mini3D has more virtual HDMI inputs than XS3D.

2: Yes

3: Yes. To get round the low light I would suggest using GAME mode in the VT50. I find it has the least PWM noise of all the modes that you can turn up the contrast on. The gamma is crap in that mode but you can sort all that in the mini. I have several clients with mini3d and vt50's. Now, with the added 125 cube you can have a supremely accurate and bright image.

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post #567 of 1277 Old 09-29-2012, 10:06 AM
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question in addition to that:
If I'm right, the Mini 3D works with a Sil9135A = HDMI 1.3, and so it can pass through bitstream audio (True HD for ex.). But the XS/XD has only HDMI 1.1 Chips.
Is that correct?

_________
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post #568 of 1277 Old 09-29-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Harry* View Post

question in addition to that:
If I'm right, the Mini 3D works with a Sil9135A = HDMI 1.3, and so it can pass through bitstream audio (True HD for ex.). But the XS/XD has only HDMI 1.1 Chips.
Is that correct?

No that is not correct either.

Only the XD is hdmi1.1

XE/XS/MINI are all HDMI1.3 chips and all,

XD, XS, XE, mini CAN BE UPDATED TO hdmi1.4 spec devices with a firmware update...although the XD is still limited to the hardware limitations of the hdmi1.1 interface it has.

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post #569 of 1277 Old 09-29-2012, 04:05 PM
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It's been pointed out that i should mention that the mini has always been mini3d and so has always been hdmi1.4 spec device....the others were available in 2D only spec and those may be upgraded with software to 1.4...and XD can be upgraded to XE by purchasing new hardware upgrade.

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post #570 of 1277 Old 09-30-2012, 04:00 AM
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Thank you for clarifying this.
So I guess, audio bitstream (including the dts/DD HD formats) is no issue for the XE, XS and Mini 3D ?

_________
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