Official Lumagen RadianceMini 3D thread. - Page 42 - AVS Forum
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post #1231 of 1317 Old 07-29-2014, 09:13 AM
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I have to ask, are there any more KNOWN fixes planned before we download this again?
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post #1232 of 1317 Old 07-29-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by avfile View Post
i have to ask, are there any more known fixes planned before we download this again?
lol
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post #1233 of 1317 Old 07-29-2014, 02:01 PM
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It's a little bit like the Whack-A-Mole game...
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post #1234 of 1317 Old 07-29-2014, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
I have to ask, are there any more KNOWN fixes planned before we download this again?
We are always working on improving things. So, there is always this chance. However, yes, we are working on a release for this week.

This release is to improve the Chroma Burst pattern on the Spears and Muncil disc. It turns out there are two concerns with the patterns themselves. One is that they violate Nyquist sampling. This is a common thing in test patterns and so is not unexpected. However, do note that real video obeys Nyquist sampling criteria. So, these type of test patterns must be taken with a grain of salt.

The second issue is these patterns, when converted to RGB, create negative RGB values. These values would not be generated by real video, or even animated video, since they start in the RGB domain and values would be no less than zero.

We have always clamped RGB into the correct range, but Patrick added some new FPGA code to help with this particular exception to normal video.

We did find a Chroma filter in our FPGA code that was supposed to be off, that was actually still on. We will correct this setting as well. This change will show a small improvement in Chroma bandwidth since it eliminates the unnecessary filtering.
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post #1235 of 1317 Old 07-29-2014, 03:10 PM
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Jim

Is it ok to run the 2143 with the fan off in a climate controlled room, with the unit sitting open on a tabletop, nothing above it? Finding the fan even in low mode is a little wheezy...

Thanks
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post #1236 of 1317 Old 07-29-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
It's a little bit like the Whack-A-Mole game...
LOL...

Not how I imagine the value of free improvements but the word picture is amusing, and has some truth to it. If you want the best video you will be doing a Radiance software update on a regular basis, and just before the next release
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post #1237 of 1317 Old 07-29-2014, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Is it ok to run the 2143 with the fan off in a climate controlled room, with the unit sitting open on a tabletop, nothing above it? Finding the fan even in low mode is a little wheezy...
For 2K output this should be fine. For 4k output, if we allow "off" as an option (I think we do), and you have a normal room temperature (say 75F, 24C) with plenty of air space around the 2143, it should be fine with the fan set to off. I have tested 4k60 output here with the fan off and vents blocked and it worked. However, this could be different on different units as the FPGA chips vary in speed.

Note that there are two temperature standards for the FPGA. The lower temperature is for meeting specified performance specs. This is the temperature we shoot for and why there is a fan. If you exceed this temperature, no harm will come to the chip, but it might not function at maximum speed, and in this case you would notice issues with the video. So if you have solid video with the fan off, your specific unit in your specific environment is okay with the fan set to off.

There is a much higher temperature specification for maximum recommended operating temperature. Above this temperature you are affecting the life of the FPGA. However, the unit would almost certainly begin to show video issues well below this temperature. However, as I found in my testing for this case, I do not think you would get close even with the fan off and the vents blocked.

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post #1238 of 1317 Old 07-31-2014, 11:51 PM
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Lumagen Radiance (XE/XE+/XE3D/XE/XE+/XE3D/Mini-3D/XD/XD3D) New 072014 Firmware Update

Release Notes

Small horizontal and vertical chroma improvements.

Added a CUE (chroma upsample error) setting under Input: Video Setup: RES: Picture.

Fixed an issue to handle 720p50 framepacked 3D source. (Update time ~9 minutes @57k)

Download Link

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #1239 of 1317 Old 08-02-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
xvYcc color is not currently supported by Radiance units. It is on our "under consideration" list. However, since it extends the range of data required I expect it to require more additional FPGA resources than available in the XE/XD/XS/Mini units. So, when we tackle xvYcc color, it will likely only be available in the 20XX and 21XX units.
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The second issue is these patterns, when converted to RGB, create negative RGB values. These values would not be generated by real video, or even animated video, since they start in the RGB domain and values would be no less than zero.

We have always clamped RGB into the correct range, but Patrick added some new FPGA code to help with this particular exception to normal video.
Does this mean XvYcc could soon be passed? I would really like this ability.

Thanks for the updates.

Stefan

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post #1240 of 1317 Old 08-02-2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Lumagen Radiance (XE/XE+/XE3D/XE/XE+/XE3D/Mini-3D/XD/XD3D) New 072014 Firmware Update

Release Notes

Small horizontal and vertical chroma improvements.

Added a CUE (chroma upsample error) setting under Input: Video Setup: RES: Picture.

Fixed an issue to handle 720p50 framepacked 3D source. (Update time ~9 minutes @57k)

Download Link
A bug was found so this version was pulled and is being reworked...
Not shocked, as it sounds like a fairly major update.
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post #1241 of 1317 Old 08-03-2014, 05:46 AM
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Lumagen Radiance (XE/XE+/XE3D/XE/XE+/XE3D/Mini-3D/XD/XD3D) New 072114 Firmware Update

Release Notes

Small horizontal and vertical chroma improvements.

Added a CUE (chroma upsample error) setting under Input: Video Setup: RES: Picture.

Fixed an issue to handle 720p50 framepacked 3D source. (note: bug occurred in 072014 and this update replaces it) (Update time ~9 minutes @57k)

Download Link

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post #1242 of 1317 Old 08-05-2014, 03:47 PM
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Hello,


I just joined the Lumagen mini 3D club so to speak and have a question:


I want to use the Lumagen for full screen 2.35 instead of the projector zoom and test out the NLS feature with 16.9 content; I started with a full top to bottom 16.9 image, I then followed Brolicbeasts video on the subject however do not get a full sized image in either 16.9, 2.35, or enabling NLS all have huge black bars top and bottom.


I went over Brolic's settings several times to make sure I did not miss anything, where might I have gone wrong?


Thanks


EDIT: To get this to work properly does the projector have to have the ability to output 2.35 aspect ratio?


My JVC X30 only does 4.3 and 16.9.

Last edited by Socio; 08-05-2014 at 05:22 PM.
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post #1243 of 1317 Old 08-05-2014, 11:04 PM
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Socio:

You need to first setup the Radiance for 2.35 by following the instructions in our TechTip 16. Among the steps include setting the Radiance output aspect ratio setting to 2.35, and using the "Output Shrink" to only use the 2.35 portion of the projector raster. TechTip 16 is on our support/manuals page.

The projector should be set up in normal 16:9 mode, and does not need to have a 2.35 mode.

That said, I don't understand why you have excessive black at the top and bottom. So to help we will need more information. I suggest we take this off line and ask that you email us at support@lumagen.com with more information, or call us at 503-574-2211.

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post #1244 of 1317 Old 08-06-2014, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post
I want to use the Lumagen for full screen 2.35 instead of the projector zoom and test out the NLS feature with 16.9 content; I started with a full top to bottom 16.9 image, I then followed Brolicbeasts video on the subject however do not get a full sized image in either 16.9, 2.35, or enabling NLS all have huge black bars top and bottom.

I went over Brolic's settings several times to make sure I did not miss anything, where might I have gone wrong?

Thanks

EDIT: To get this to work properly does the projector have to have the ability to output 2.35 aspect ratio?

My JVC X30 only does 4.3 and 16.9.
Your projector has a 1920x1080 pixel panel. It projects a 1.78:1 image. There is nothing a Radiance or any other external electronic device can do to change that. The only way to alter the shape of the projected image is to add an anamorphic lens in front of your projector.

With that said, if you wish to use the "Zoom Method" for Constant Image Height, the Radiance can shrink all content you watch down to fit within the middle 2.35:1 portion of the frame (using only approximately 800 pixels of height). You will always have black bars at the top and bottom of the projected image. That cannot be helped without an anamorphic lens. The idea is that you zoom your projector so that the letterbox bars spill off the top and bottom of your 2.35:1 screen onto your wall. If your wall is a dark color, the letterbox bars should not be noticeable there.
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post #1245 of 1317 Old 08-06-2014, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Your projector has a 1920x1080 pixel panel. It projects a 1.78:1 image. There is nothing a Radiance or any other external electronic device can do to change that. The only way to alter the shape of the projected image is to add an anamorphic lens in front of your projector.

With that said, if you wish to use the "Zoom Method" for Constant Image Height, the Radiance can shrink all content you watch down to fit within the middle 2.35:1 portion of the frame (using only approximately 800 pixels of height). You will always have black bars at the top and bottom of the projected image. That cannot be helped without an anamorphic lens. The idea is that you zoom your projector so that the letterbox bars spill off the top and bottom of your 2.35:1 screen onto your wall. If your wall is a dark color, the letterbox bars should not be noticeable there.
I see; I have been using the projector zoom for full 2.35:1 screen image with 2.35: 1 sources.

So what I have to do is use that same zoom setting with the Lumagen modified image for full screen image on my 2.35:1 screen.

Makes sense, I was thrown off a bit by Brolicbeasts video as it looked like the Lumagen replaced projector zoom when it really has to work in conjunction with it.


Thanks!
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post #1246 of 1317 Old 08-13-2014, 03:08 AM
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Lumagen Radiance (XE/XE+/XE3D/XE/XE+/XE3D/Mini-3D/XD/XD3D) New 072214 Firmware Update

Release Notes

A bugfix for CUE filtering from 072114 firmware when upscaling.

Improved the CUE filter menu, filter did not immediately turn on when enabled (Update time ~9 minutes @57k)

Download Link

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #1247 of 1317 Old 08-17-2014, 09:14 AM
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My mini stopped working suddenly. It powers on and "appears" to respond to remote clicks since the led flashes...

Setup: Denon receiver -> mini input 1 -> projector


I did the following:
1) I restarted the mini by unplugging it. After restart same issue.
2) I replaced the HDMI from the receiver to the mini - same issue
3) I tried using the HDMI Input 2 BUT, since I never really changed inputs and since I don't have an image to look at, I typed 2 - Input to change to input 2. Not sure if that did it though? But any case, still no image.

If I bypass the mini by plugging the receiver into the projector directly I get my image back.

The mini was purchased in 2011 so warranty is out... Is it time to send it in for service or are there any other troubleshooting steps I can take?

Thank you.

GO HABS GO!
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post #1248 of 1317 Old 08-17-2014, 10:43 AM
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zbroke:

When the Mini is on if you press OK do you see the Info screen? If so, it might actually be HDMI cabling related. We have found that HDMI cables (and connectors) do show age sometimes. If you see the Status Screen look to see if HDCP is On for the input but Off for the output. This would say that an issue developed that the Mini cannot validate the projector HDCP. One thing to try is to (with all power in the theater disconnected) unplug and re-plug all the HDMI connectors a few times each. We have seen that this can help clean the contacts and restore operation in some cases.

If you do not see the status screen when you press OK, then it could be the power supply failing, or it could be the Mini. It takes less voltage from the power supply to light the LED, and it might not be enough to power the unit. You can measure the supply voltage under load by taking the cover off, and measuring from the back pin of the power connector to the case with a DC volt meter. It should measure about 5 VDC. You can purchase a new Power supply from us, or buy a 5 VDC (make sure it is NOT more than 5 VDC) at 4 Amps with a 2.5 mm positive center-pin barrel power connector, if it is the power supply.

It is possible a bit in the Flash ROM has "flipped" which can keep the unit from working. This is not common but can happen. If this is what happened, and the bad bit is not in the Boot Sector, you might be able to recover the unit with a boot-mode update as described in the TechTip that comes with the update.

If the issue is not resolved after trying the above, we would need you to send us the unit for evaluation.

Please continue this conversation by emailing support@lumagen.com so we can discuss further options.

Jim Peterson
Lumagen

Last edited by jrp; 08-17-2014 at 11:02 AM.
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post #1249 of 1317 Old 08-17-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
zbroke:

When the Mini is on if you press OK do you see the Info screen? If so, it might actually be HDMI cabling related. We have found that HDMI cables (and connectors) do show age sometimes. If you see the Status Screen look to see if HDCP is On for the input but Off for the output. This would say that an issue developed that the Mini cannot validate the projector HDCP. One thing to try is to (with all power in the theater disconnected) unplug and re-plug all the HDMI connectors a few times each. We have seen that this can help clean the contacts and restore operation in some cases.

If you do not see the status screen when you press OK, then it could be the power supply failing, or it could be the Mini. It takes less voltage from the power supply to light the LED, and it might not be enough to power the unit. You can measure the supply voltage under load by taking the cover off, and measuring from the back pin of the power connector to the case with a DC volt meter. It should measure about 5 VDC. You can purchase a new Power supply from us, or buy a 5 VDC (make sure it is NOT more than 5 VDC) at 4 Amps with a 2.5 mm positive center-pin barrel power connector, if it is the power supply.

It is possible a bit in the Flash ROM has "flipped" which can keep the unit from working. This is not common but can happen. If this is what happened, and the bad bit is not in the Boot Sector, you might be able to recover the unit with a boot-mode update as described in the TechTip that comes with the update.

If the issue is not resolved after trying the above, we would need you to send us the unit for evaluation.

Please continue this conversation by emailing support@lumagen.com so we can discuss further options.
Thank you Jim for the quick response. I've sent an email to support with new info to share.

Thanks.

GO HABS GO!
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post #1250 of 1317 Old 08-23-2014, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbroke View Post
Thank you Jim for the quick response. I've sent an email to support with new info to share.

Thanks.
I'm posting this here in case is helps another owner in the future. To recap the few posts above (and move info sgared via email with support), the symptoms on my mini were loud hissing sounds coming from it and it would take a long time to show an image, if at all. Once the image was on, it would be OK for as long as the mini was not put in Standby.

At the suggestion of Support (aka Jim), I purchased a new power supply. It's only been one day but so far all the symptoms are gone: no more hissing sounds, image comes on instantly, in other words, the problem appears to be solved (in a very economical way!).

Thanks Jim!

GO HABS GO!
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post #1251 of 1317 Old 08-26-2014, 06:49 PM
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I'd like to try the 21-point grayscale/gamma feature on the Mini3d. Does this work the same way as the ChromaPure control panel, which has 11-pt controls; will the Mini3 generate the patterns I need?
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post #1252 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I'd like to try the 21-point grayscale/gamma feature on the Mini3d. Does this work the same way as the ChromaPure control panel, which has 11-pt controls; will the Mini3 generate the patterns I need?
I've never used the chromapure control panel. The Lumagen allows you to throw up any of it's own test patterns for greyscale, ie apl, small, medium windows or full field...or you can use external patterns. The multi-point gamma and greyscale is simple to understand and use. If you do a 10 point then move to 21 the scaler will interpoalte the new points to speed up the next fine tuning run.

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post #1253 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 03:31 AM
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Glad to hear you say that, I thought it was meant only for the pros. Is there a demo or tech tip on how to use the Radiance CMS?
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post #1254 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 06:07 AM
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You could ask lumagen direct but i don't see one on their site. I think i wrote somethign a few years ago but i can't find the link to it.

MENU 0910 turns on service mode and gets you access to the CMS stuff.

Choose the 10 or 11 point greyscale adjustment. and press OK

You will then see on screen data stating the control level, it's luminance, then R G B values.
If you adjust R G or B levels up or down you will see the Luminance level alter,,,ie add G and luminance goes up...to maintain gamma you then go back and move the luminance back to where you need it to be for your chosen gamma target and when you do that the R G B values will move either up or down relative to each other to maintain the correct greyscale. You may find that due to the non linearity of your display you need to iterate this bit a few times.

to change the pattern used press 4 to cycle through the options.

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post #1255 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 06:57 AM
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^^^^^^
I'm no Calibration Pro, but I find the Lumagen manual controls/menus easy to navigate. I do manual 21-point greyscale/gamma, and then let Chromapure loose to do the 125-point CMS. As Gordon said, it's quicker to do an 11-point initial run, then change to 21-point, and let the Lumagen do the interpolation, then fine tune the 21-point.
You will need to familiarize yourself with the menu structure, and the number values to change patterns, etc.
DON'T forget to Save, Save, Save, your changes.
Also, make use of the extra CMS memories to allow you to retain a previous 'good' cal, while trying something new in a 'clean' memory slot.

Regards, Mike.
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post #1256 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post
You could ask lumagen direct but i don't see one on their site. I think i wrote somethign a few years ago but i can't find the link to it.

MENU 0910 turns on service mode and gets you access to the CMS stuff.

Choose the 10 or 11 point greyscale adjustment. and press OK

You will then see on screen data stating the control level, it's luminance, then R G B values.
If you adjust R G or B levels up or down you will see the Luminance level alter,,,ie add G and luminance goes up...to maintain gamma you then go back and move the luminance back to where you need it to be for your chosen gamma target and when you do that the R G B values will move either up or down relative to each other to maintain the correct greyscale. You may find that due to the non linearity of your display you need to iterate this bit a few times.

to change the pattern used press 4 to cycle through the options.

Sounds simple enough. Thanks!
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post #1257 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
^^^^^^
I'm no Calibration Pro, but I find the Lumagen manual controls/menus easy to navigate. I do manual 21-point greyscale/gamma, and then let Chromapure loose to do the 125-point CMS. As Gordon said, it's quicker to do an 11-point initial run, then change to 21-point, and let the Lumagen do the interpolation, then fine tune the 21-point.
You will need to familiarize yourself with the menu structure, and the number values to change patterns, etc.
DON'T forget to Save, Save, Save, your changes.
Also, make use of the extra CMS memories to allow you to retain a previous 'good' cal, while trying something new in a 'clean' memory slot.

Regards, Mike.

I constantly forget to Save in ChromaPure. Wish there was just one save needed, at the end of the session.
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post #1258 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 02:48 PM
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need some help with mini

I am having a bit of a time figuring out the mini. My issue is video appears jumpy in some scenes specifically during some fast motion scenes. Do I have something out of sync here or is there a setting I need to look at in particular to avoid this problem?
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post #1259 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 04:40 PM
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dynch34, I experienced "jumpy" picture with DVD and Bluray. Hope this post from jrp of Lumagen helps.
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
For DVD material there are several considerations. [EDIT] For many DVDs "24 Hertz" material has been edited and compressed as "480i" (or 576i) material. This short-cut taken by many studios can be the cause of "Bad-edits" which can in-turn cause issues with deinterlacing.

Some DVDs use a flag embedded in the material that tells the player how to convert the interlaced fields back to progressive. This can help, but one of the main encoding chips used for encoding many of the "pre-Bluray" DVDs had an error in the generation of this flag which could cause problems.

So, what's the best output mode to the Radiance for DVDs?

If a DVD is encoded as 480p24 (or 576p25), then if the player can output at 480p24 (or 576p25), then that would be the best option. I don't know if any players will do this, and I am not sure the Radiance has even been tested with this input rate. Since the Radiance NoRing(TM) scaling is best, and there may be some inverse-telecine issues in the player, we do NOT recommend outputting DVDs at 1080p24 [EDIT] from the player.

So the best option is to either output to the Radiance as 480p60 (or 576p50) and have more judder, or output as 480i (or 576i) and let the Radiance deinterlace and pull out the cadence so it can then output as 24p (or 60p, or 25p, or 50p as appropriate) to your display/projector.

If you are sending the Radiance 24p material as 480i (or 25p material as 576i), you should select "FILM" mode for deinterlacing in the Radiance. The issue is that in some frames there is not enough contrast for the deinterlacer to be certain of the existence of a cadence and the GF9450 deinterlacer will immediately revert to video mode, which will not provide the best image quality for progressive source encoded as interlace. In FILM mode deinterlacing the Radiance can override the output of the GF9450 deinterlacer and instead use its own cadence history to keep the inverse-telecine to progressive conversion working properly, and so correctly reconstruct each frame.

Also, for 24p (or 25p) source sent to the Radiance as interlace, you may want to turn on Genlock. This will insure that no frames are dropped and no frames are doubled. For Film source at 24 or 25 fps this can be noticeable. NOTE: For cable/satellite "video" source material, we generally recommend Genlock be left off since it significantly increases the switching time between inputs or for input resolution changes.

Last edited by Pres2play; 08-27-2014 at 04:44 PM.
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post #1260 of 1317 Old 08-27-2014, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
^^^^^^
I'm no Calibration Pro, but I find the Lumagen manual controls/menus easy to navigate. I do manual 21-point greyscale/gamma, and then let Chromapure loose to do the 125-point CMS. As Gordon said, it's quicker to do an 11-point initial run, then change to 21-point, and let the Lumagen do the interpolation, then fine tune the 21-point.
You will need to familiarize yourself with the menu structure, and the number values to change patterns, etc.
DON'T forget to Save, Save, Save, your changes.
Also, make use of the extra CMS memories to allow you to retain a previous 'good' cal, while trying something new in a 'clean' memory slot.

Regards, Mike.
Mike, you and Jim and few other members here tried to explain the 21-point controls to me before, but I wasn't ready; I was still learning ChromaPure and calibration basics. I'm going back now to re-read all the earlier posts and see what I missed. Thanks for the help guys.
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