HD Fire Fury (as opposed to HDfury)? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I've read about this HD Fire Fury that is supposedly a ripoff of the original HDfury. I haven't gotten a conclusive answer though: is it worth buying, or will it really fry my display or source, as some websites have claimed?
Is there some kind of standalone surge protector or voltage regulator for HDMI/DVI and VGA/RGBHV cables that I can purchase as a precaution?
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post #2 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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And what about those generic ones from Hong Kong and China that claim to be HDCP 1.2 compliant?
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post #3 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P719C1 View Post

Is there some kind of standalone surge protector or voltage regulator for HDMI/DVI and VGA/RGBHV cables that I can purchase as a precaution?

Protect against what, a poorly designed connected device? No.
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post #4 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by P719C1 View Post

I've read about this HD Fire Fury that is supposedly a ripoff of the original HDfury. I haven't gotten a conclusive answer though: is it worth buying, or will it really fry my display or source, as some websites have claimed?
Is there some kind of standalone surge protector or voltage regulator for HDMI/DVI and VGA/RGBHV cables that I can purchase as a precaution?


If you really are looking for a HIGH QUALITY HDMI>Comp.RGB/VGA converter then forget the rest and buy the best, HDFury 2 or 3,they're the best on the market.Forget about cheap knock-offs,because you'll only be wasting your $$$$ not saving it.Also,if you should have a problem with your Fury,the Co. has good customer support.Just post your problem on their forum and you WILL be helped.I have a Fury2 and it works flawlessly. G.
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post #5 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greaser View Post

I have a Fury2 and it works flawlessly. G.

Do you use the GammaX with it? Do you think it would be worth the extra $60 to go with the Advanced Kit and get it? (it appears there aren't many to be had besides those bought directly from their website)
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post #6 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I plan on using it with my CRT monitors and possibly a CRT projector.
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post #7 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by P719C1 View Post

Do you use the GammaX with it? Do you think it would be worth the extra $60 to go with the Advanced Kit and get it? (it appears there aren't many to be had besides those bought directly from their website)

No i don't use the GammaX.Actually i forget what the GammaX is used for!lol Is it used for gaming purposes??
The ONLY place to buy the Fury is directly from them in Taiwan.There are a few other foreign websites you could buy from but they cost quite a bit more from those places.The Fury is no longer allowed to be sold by domestic vendors as of roughly the beginning of this year. G.
PS:I hesitate to tell you whether the advanced kit is "worth it" or not because it all depends on what and how you will use your Fury.
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post #8 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 04:48 PM
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I just went to the Fury website and re-read what the GammaX is used for.It's of no use to me cuz i use Component video.If you have a VGA input it may very well be worth the xtra $$. G.
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post #9 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greaser View Post

No i don't use the GammaX.Actually i forget what the GammaX is used for!lol Is it used for gaming purposes??
The ONLY place to buy the Fury is directly from them in Taiwan.There are a few other foreign websites you could buy from but they cost quite a bit more from those places.The Fury is no longer allowed to be sold by domestic vendors as of roughly the beginning of this year. G.
PS:I hesitate to tell you whether the advanced kit is "worth it" or not because it all depends on what and how you will use your Fury.

Wow, I didn't even realize that. I believe it though. So that would explain why all three HDfury models are listed as discontinued on monoprice.

I mean, I'd rather not spend that kind of money if I don't have to, but I'll pay more for good picture quality--and the assurance that I'm not getting something that others have said damaged their other equipment.

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I just went to the Fury website and re-read what the GammaX is used for.It's of no use to me cuz i use Component video.If you have a VGA input it may very well be worth the xtra $$. G.

Yeah, I'm thinking I might go with the HDfury2 advanced kit for the extra $60, since the GammaX alone is $99 from Curt Palme. I probably won't need the extra cables, but they're nice to have, and if they're crappy ones I suppose I can always sell them on eBay or something!
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post #10 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 05:10 PM
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HA!!!Monoprice got a batch in back in January,was listed for about 3 days then....GONE!! I don't know of course,but i have a "feeling" that they were told to stop offering them.
Your question about the GammaX got me to thinking.I have an input on my tv that i have never used.It's a queer looking input.I wonder if it might be a VGA input.Hmmm.I'll have to look at it when i get home from work tonight.If it is then i might also be interested in buying the GammaX cuz with certain movies the pic.is to dark and the GammaX would probably "fix it"!
Since the Fury2 is a HDMI>Comp.RGB/VGA converter it would work for me too!
IF that input is actually a VGA input. I would definitely stay away from Curt Palme's site cuz he's toooo expensive. G.
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post #11 of 28 Old 07-13-2011, 08:43 PM
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Oh i just thought of something.I must clarify a point.I only get some dark-ish scenes in 'some' commercial movies that i buy.Not from any other source.
The GammaX would make the scenes in those few movies look better.
From ANY source(a few scenes from a few movies excepted)the Fury produces a seemingly exact reproduction of the original source,at least as far as human eyes can detect.You need an oscilloscope to 'see' the diff.between HDMI signals and the converted signal.Some people claim that the converted signal looks better than straight Component does.I personally can't see a diff.between the two,the PQ is that good. G.
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post #12 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greaser View Post

Oh i just thought of something.I must clarify a point.I only get some dark-ish scenes in 'some' commercial movies that i buy.Not from any other source.
The GammaX would make the scenes in those few movies look better.
From ANY source(a few scenes from a few movies excepted)the Fury produces a seemingly exact reproduction of the original source,at least as far as human eyes can detect.You need an oscilloscope to 'see' the diff.between HDMI signals and the converted signal.Some people claim that the converted signal looks better than straight Component does.I personally can't see a diff.between the two,the PQ is that good. G.

Yeah, I had that thought in the back of my mind too: if the Fury is so great as-is, then why would it need an extra enhancer? And it did seem like Curt Palme pushes the GammaX more than the HDfury people themselves.

I just thought of another crazy idea regarding the HDfury2, but it could backfire on me miserably. (Just typed it out but decided maybe I shouldn't post it publicly so I deleted it...PM me instead)
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post #13 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by P719C1 View Post

Yeah, I had that thought in the back of my mind too: if the Fury is so great as-is, then why would it need an extra enhancer? And it did seem like Curt Palme pushes the GammaX more than the HDfury people themselves.

I don't think an extra enhancer is needed.It may be that some tv's may need to be re-calibrated and Curt Palme may be taking advantage of peoples ignorance towards re-calibration(there's a sucker born every minute).I think my occasional dark scenes are caused by my player when i play a certain few movies and isn't common at all.It NEVER happens when i watch tv.So it's not the fault of the Fury,if it was i and others wouldn't think so highly of this device.I would have probably returned it if it was.In fact,i researched this product as heavily as i could,reading user reviews wherever i found them,and i can say truthfully that i have NEVER seen such positive reviews for any product as i have seen for the Fury!! G.
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post #14 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Indeed. Plus when you consider the VGA phaseout to be completed in about 4 years, I see demand for the HDfury exploding!
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post #15 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 11:05 AM
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Indeed. Plus when you consider the VGA phaseout to be completed in about 4 years, I see demand for the HDfury exploding!

If there is a demand for them(and there is)it is NOW,and for the next year or so.4 yrs.from now the landscape for tv viewing will IMO have changed drastically. The primary reason for the Fury's existence is for people who have older non-HDMI,non HDCP compliant HDTV's.Four yrs.from now a lot of those tv's probably won't be around anymore.At least most of them won't be.My tv does have a HDMI input but it's broken so i rely on my Component video input and the Fury fits the bill PERFECTLY! My laptop is my blu ray player and only has HDMI out. My tv cost toooo much $$$ to just throw away,just because of a bunch of Hollywood nut cases who don't like Component video or ANY analog inputs at all and demand that everything be done over HDMI G.
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post #16 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I guess that makes sense. Not everyone thinks like I do--I will probably still be using CRTs two decades from now.

I wonder if there will be an upcoming HDfury that will support dual-link and can do higher than 1080p/UXGA60. Would be particularly useful for those who own Sony GDM-FW900s and the like and still plan on using them 4 years from now--without having to use old graphics cards. Plus if very high resolution standards make it to market (UHDTV, 2K) it could be useful for Barco 909s, Sony G90s, etc.
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post #17 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 01:33 PM
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Yeah I guess that makes sense. Not everyone thinks like I do--I will probably still be using CRTs two decades from now.

I wonder if there will be an upcoming HDfury that will support dual-link and can do higher than 1080p/UXGA60. Would be particularly useful for those who own Sony GDM-FW900s and the like and still plan on using them 4 years from now--without having to use old graphics cards. Plus if very high resolution standards make it to market (UHDTV, 2K) it could be useful for Barco 909s, Sony G90s, etc.

There is another Fury coming out sometime this year.Unfortunately,due to new HDCP compliancy rules the output of the Fury must shut down whenever HDCP is detected. The original Fury and Fury's 2 & 3 do not kill their outputs when HDCP is detected.So i don't think id'e be looking for an even better,more capable unit to be coming out.
Ya know,if i could find a CRT tv that was HD capable i would buy it in a NY minute even if it weighed 400 lbs.and i had to have professional movers carry it in to the house cuz i think that CRT still has the best PQ of any of the tv's. G.
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post #18 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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There is another Fury coming out sometime this year.Unfortunately,due to new HDCP compliancy rules the output of the Fury must shut down whenever HDCP is detected. The original Fury and Fury's 2 & 3 do not kill their outputs when HDCP is detected.So i don't think id'e be looking for an even better,more capable unit to be coming out.

Seriously? That is quite unfortunate. They will provide firmware upgrades for the HDfury2 and HDfury3 if I recall correctly...because I wouldn't put it past the DCP people to pull almost all the old HDCP keys. Just one more reason I guess why to go with the real thing instead of one of the cheaper generic ones.

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Ya know,if i could find a CRT tv that was HD capable i would buy it in a NY minute even if it weighed 400 lbs.and i had to have professional movers carry it in to the house cuz i think that CRT still has the best PQ of any of the tv's. G.

? ? ? ? Do you mean a new one?
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post #19 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 02:44 PM
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Seriously? That is quite unfortunate. They will provide firmware upgrades for the HDfury2 and HDfury3 if I recall correctly...because I wouldn't put it past the DCP people to pull almost all the old HDCP keys. Just one more reason I guess why to go with the real thing instead of one of the cheaper generic ones.



? ? ? ? Do you mean a new one?

Yes i mean a new one.I think there are RP CRT tv's but that's not what i want. I like to have a CRT tv just like the ones i used to know,except that it would be HD capable.Except i don't know where HDMI would fit into the picture.

I posted a question on the Fury forum asking about key revocation/nullification.The answer from "Wildchild" was:"we're ok for now"
Since these devices are fully re-programmable i'm hoping that these units will last for quite awhile after the analog sunset,and am hoping that the Co.is interested enough to help keep them working.I don't have much hope for the cheaper converters though.To me at least,it's obvious that the makers of the cheap stuff won't support their product,if they had any real interest then they probably wouldn't be making junk,and i know that there are A LOT of junk converters out there cuz iv'e seen them. G.
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post #20 of 28 Old 07-14-2011, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes i mean a new one.I think there are RP CRT tv's but that's not what i want. I like to have a CRT tv just like the ones i used to know,except that it would be HD capable.Except i don't know where HDMI would fit into the picture.

I'm afraid the CRT is completely dead now, at least here in the U.S. Back in April 2009 I bought an SDTV on clearance at Target, for Best Buy had already cleared out their stock, and it seemed Walmart was the only other major store still selling CRT TVs. I've read now that future Blu-Rays will only play in standard-definition over component (and that the PS3 will only display HD for Blu-Ray on HDMI), which is quite unfortunate because I have not yet had the chance to experience Blu-Ray on my Panasonic CT36HX40. 1080i-capable but no DVI and predated HDMI.


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I posted a question on the Fury forum asking about key revocation/nullification.The answer from "Wildchild" was:"we're ok for now"
Since these devices are fully re-programmable i'm hoping that these units will last for quite awhile after the analog sunset,and am hoping that the Co.is interested enough to help keep them working.I don't have much hope for the cheaper converters though.To me at least,it's obvious that the makers of the cheap stuff won't support their product,if they had any real interest then they probably wouldn't be making junk,and i know that there are A LOT of junk converters out there cuz iv'e seen them. G.

I sure hope so! About two years ago I bought a cheap (~$40) component-to-VGA transcoder from a Hong Kong seller on eBay and the description misled me into believing it scaled everything to 1280x1024. I even messaged the seller, and they told me the same thing as the description. So when I finally got it, I hooked it up to my PS2 (outputting 480i on component) and alas, no signal on my monitor. And of course the "VGA CONVERT BOX OPERATE EXPLAIN" that came with it (written in Engrish) was no help. First I tried messaging the seller again explaining, and I got no answer. So I picked up a better CRT monitor listed in my area on Craigslist, one that would display the horizontal and vertical scanrates even when the signal was out of range, and when it showed H:15.7KHz I finally figured out on my own that it didn't do any scaling despite the description, so I left neutral feedback saying that the description was misleading. Though I was able to get it to work with my PS2 once I memorized the procedure to blindly activate progressive-scan on each game (lol) I ended up selling it on Craigslist for $25 a few months later and got a line doubler instead. Also, the VGA cable that came with it (intended as a passthrough for PC) must be the worst-performing VGA cable I've ever seen--the picture was so blurry that I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't have enough bandwidth to support a composite video signal! Maybe my fault for not looking into it ahead of time, but proof that those cheap brands really don't care.

Then there's THESE blatant scams that use intentionally misleading titles like the use of the word "Converter" in there. For some lulz, read the section entitled "FQA about this item"
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post #21 of 28 Old 07-15-2011, 07:50 AM
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Hello Folks !

First of all, thanx all of ya for your support in the past years.

Here is our tribute to the discussion:

1) Stay away from HDfirefury and/or so called "HDfury pro". They are cheap clones in price but especially in quality. while they could give an illusion of decent quality on a small monitor, they will look absolutely crap on any large screen and especially projectors. Numerous are also DOA cause of poor manufacturing process and lack of decent QC.

2) There is a couple of others clones that do offer similar quality than HDfury, but their prices is within the same range than HDfury. However they are always one generation late.

3) The next gen of HDfury adapter will not output analog if HDCP is enable, however, final user might be able to flash the firmware to recover the initial reason of purchasing such device (DMCA allow reverse engineering for interoperability, isn't it ?)

4) HDfury1 is HDMI 1.1, HDfury2 is HDMI 1.2, HDfury3 is HDMI 1.3, HDfury4 will be HDMI 1.4 (aka 3Dfury and/or HDFury3D)

5) 3Dfury (HDfury3D and/or HDfury4) will allow you to do anything but not out of the box. It will now be the end user responsability to "reverse engineer" the firmware of HDfury for his interoperability needs. for ex. 3Dfury can output HDMI/DVI-D/VGA/COMPONENT, it can also work in dual projectors mode for 3D with passive glasses, or add 3D to any screen in the world from 50 to 120hz with active glasses)

6) Last but not least : We designed a small HDMI device called Dr HDMI, this device can empower and improve a HDMI signal integrity, it can also sniff an EDID from any device and store in the bank, it comes with 8 banks that allow to limit resolution, feature, or expande features so any sources can be tricked to do what ever you might need, it comes with a free software (as opposed to powerstrip) that allow to edit any part of the edid (including CEA861 extension) at will and on the fly.

7) We also worked on an amazing upscaler that will be released this year, and the generation of products that will comes out after 3Dfury release will include this work so the device will be able to take anything as input and you will be able to set it to output in any mode you want. The kind of quality is beyond everyone expectations since it's using same ic than today 1000usd processor !

Others good stuffs will be included but it's a bit too early for a full disclosure, just for your information, things like triple frame from 24hz source (24 > 72) etc.. will be there !

---------------------------------------------------

End of communication !
Have fun with your hardware paid with hardly earned money.
We won't give up cause of so called "legal" BS !
Business conspiracies to restrict technology should be illegal, and we will fight for it.
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post #22 of 28 Old 07-15-2011, 09:46 AM
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HELLO 3Dfury!! Glad you found the AVS Forum.Judging by your post you must work for HDFury?? I have been using the Fury2 for a while now and i think you guys make a great product.I have tried to tell others about the Fury converters.Unfortunately many people seem to like crappy converters,don't ask me why because i can't figure it out.But that doesn't stop me from telling people anyway.
We really need people like you here so that we can be kept informed about technical developments in the Fury products and to dispel myths and lies some people like to tell about the Fury products.
Glad to hear about the free software instead of Powerstrip and would like to know more about it so i and others can keep our converters up to date.
Am interested in Mr HDMI too.From your post i gather that the Fury4 will be user re-programmable? That's great! Gives hope to those of us that like the Fury products,that we will be able to continue to use these devices into the future despite more and more draconian restrictions being heaped upon us.
3Dfury i have so many questions i really don't know where to begin,but i sure am glad your here.Maybe you can moniter this site and help people who are looking for a high quality converter to answer their questions? Especially about the software that helps people re-program our converters.
Can you tell me how to get more info. about the software and where i can obtain it?
Thanks again for posting here and please don't be a stranger to this forum.Post again soon!! G.
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post #23 of 28 Old 07-15-2011, 11:22 AM
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Hi Greaser

Thanx for your words,

The current HDfury3 shipping is already user upgradable through USB.
The previous white HDfury3 had a small nokia style connector for power supply.
The new HDfury3 is black color with a mini usb style connector, it can be used for power and/or USB upgrade.

I'll provide some pictures later today or tomorrow

PS: Any HDfury products will always work, there is nothing they can do against this, the master key is leaked and public, so even if they revoke some keys that they don't know and have no way to know or list, using the master key you can "un-revoke".

The revocation process is very easy, it's initialy made to break HACKED KEYS, let's say someone sniff or hack a HDCP key, he could then produce hardware using this Key, note that here we are talking about multiple hardware using the same Keys.

But how do you want them to manage to get the list of LEGIT HDCP keys wiht paid royalties embedded within IC that was bought in small qty from various location. So, they can stop 1 HDfury eventually, the one they would have bought for the purpose, means, not yours ! they can't stop all HDfury.

Btw, while they are chasing up HDfury, they let crap and cheap converter be sold on the market, said otherwise, people who want the high quality converter for their high end displays have problem getting some, people who want the cheapest one to record content at the cheapest cost have no problem in getting as many as they want. Go figure what's wrong in their minds !
LL
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post #24 of 28 Old 07-16-2011, 09:04 AM
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P719C1,Iv'e seen a lot of converters and iv'e seen that one to,many times and i can say without a doubt, that it is the most ridiculous thing iv'e ever seen!!
What's really strange is that there is actually a legitimate use for it! It's use is confined to 1-2 obscure applications,i forget what they are but 99 percent of people would never need them.Some people buy them in the mistaken belief that it is a 'cheap' way to solve a problem but end up very disappointed. G.
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post #25 of 28 Old 07-16-2011, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 3Dfury View Post
3) The next gen of HDfury adapter will not output analog if HDCP is enable, however, final user might be able to flash the firmware to recover the initial reason of purchasing such device (DMCA allow reverse engineering for interoperability, isn't it ?)

4) HDfury1 is HDMI 1.1, HDfury2 is HDMI 1.2, HDfury3 is HDMI 1.3, HDfury4 will be HDMI 1.4 (aka 3Dfury and/or HDFury3D)

5) 3Dfury (HDfury3D and/or HDfury4) will allow you to do anything but not out of the box. It will now be the end user responsability to "reverse engineer" the firmware of HDfury for his interoperability needs. for ex. 3Dfury can output HDMI/DVI-D/VGA/COMPONENT, it can also work in dual projectors mode for 3D with passive glasses, or add 3D to any screen in the world from 50 to 120hz with active glasses)
Excellent! I was afraid at first when I heard about the DCP people with their ever more restrictive mandates, but I figured you guys wouldn't give up that easily, and you delivered. I'm looking forward to purchasing a a HDfury2 or two. (I'd like the 3 but don't know if I could afford it now. Not that it isn't worth the money though)



Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dfury

6) Last but not least : We designed a small HDMI device called Dr HDMI, this device can empower and improve a HDMI signal integrity, it can also sniff an EDID from any device and store in the bank, it comes with 8 banks that allow to limit resolution, feature, or expande features so any sources can be tricked to do what ever you might need, it comes with a free software (as opposed to powerstrip) that allow to edit any part of the edid (including CEA861 extension) at will and on the fly.

7) We also worked on an amazing upscaler that will be released this year, and the generation of products that will comes out after 3Dfury release will include this work so the device will be able to take anything as input and you will be able to set it to output in any mode you want. The kind of quality is beyond everyone expectations since it's using same ic than today 1000usd processor !

Others good stuffs will be included but it's a bit too early for a full disclosure, just for your information, things like triple frame from 24hz source (24 > 72) etc.. will be there !

---------------------------------------------------

End of communication !
Have fun with your hardware paid with hardly earned money.
We won't give up cause of so called "legal" BS !
Business conspiracies to restrict technology should be illegal, and we will fight for it.
Sounds great, looking forward to these new products. And way to stick it to the man. Keep it up! Don't let the DCP people (and really anyone who's pushing to phase out component and analog RGB) bully you around and screw over us honest consumers who don't want to replace our perfectly-good equipment.
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post #26 of 28 Old 07-26-2011, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got my hands on a HDfury2. So far I've only been able to test it with a set-top box that has DVI output and a PC graphics card, but it seems to work great!
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post #27 of 28 Old 07-27-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P719C1 View Post

Just got my hands on a HDfury2. So far I've only been able to test it with a set-top box that has DVI output and a PC graphics card, but it seems to work great!


You should have good luck with it.If you run into a problem you can go the the HDFury forum,describe your problem and you will be helped.If there is a defect they will replace it free under warranty G.
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post #28 of 28 Old 08-13-2011, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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By the way, I think eBay bans sales of the HDfury. I search "hdfury" at least once a day just out of curiosity to see if there are any new postings. Whenever I see one I add it to my watch list (and I've even placed a couple bids on auction listings), just to receive a MC999 eBay Listing Removed notice several hours later.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH...a posting for the HD Fire Fury ripoff (the one I originally asked about in this thread) with the intentionally misleading name HD FURY - DVi to VGA Convertor for Non HDCP Projectors has been up for the full 30 days, no problem. Hmm....I suspect some funny business going on here. Maybe the DCP people have their hands down the pants of eBay, similar to how YouTube censors videos that its sponsors and partners don't like, and how NBC news affiliates didn't report on the fact that GE didn't pay taxes.
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