Does 4k upscaling really do anything? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 11-21-2011, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking to get an Onkyo or Integra A/V receiver and I noticed they have "4k upscaling" [3840 x 2160 or 4096 x 2160] which is something other receiver companies do not have [yet?]. They have the Marvell Kyoto G2H chip. I've been reading around and I'm trying to clarify some of the things I've read. Although the chip is able "guess" the missing information to upscale the resolution to 4k, does it make a difference if your tv's max resolution is 1080? Would this technology be used mostly for projectors or can it be used for tv's too?

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4K upscaling means taking the native resolution of your source (be it standard definition or one of the many high definition formats such as 1080i) and upscaling it to a full resolution of 3,840 x 2,160 pixels. Bearing in mind that 1080p (the usual maximum resolution) is only 1,920 x 1,080 pixels. you can see that 4K upscaling is four TIMES the resolution.

This is an impressively large resolution, but will it mean a better picture? Well, the thing to bear in mind here is source and screen. If your source is 1080p, then the final image, even upscaled, is still based on a 1080p source - you cannot add additional information. However, with a good quality video processing chip, you can 'guess' the missing information, so theoretically yes - you can improve the picture.

However, more important is your screen. Most televisions will reach a maximum of 1080p as that is the current standard, and whilst some projectors may be able to reach these heady heights, it's not the norm. Therefore, 4K upscaling will do pretty much nothing in these instances. It's best to output to the native resolution of your screen, so check your screens resolution and choose the right format for your screen - of course, the Onkyo will let you do that!

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post #2 of 10 Old 11-22-2011, 05:24 AM
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I think the information you quoted is pretty clear.
If you do not have a 4k projector there is no point in a 4k scaler, it will do nothing to improve output to a traditional full HD screen.

That being said, the Marvell Kyoto G2H might have favourably scaling algorithms compared to other solutions.
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post #3 of 10 Old 11-25-2011, 08:38 PM
 
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That's n understatement. A 1080p can't even accept a 4K input, it can't avvept it and even if it could, I do not think a single HDMI cable can't transmit it, its bandworth isn't large enough. If HDMI is to handle it, it would have to be done by two cables.
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post #4 of 10 Old 11-25-2011, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

That's n understatement. A 1080p can't even accept a 4K input, it can't avvept it and even if it could, I do not think a single HDMI cable can't transmit it, its bandworth isn't large enough. If HDMI is to handle it, it would have to be done by two cables.

i dont think the second half of your statement is correct if i recall correctly. the "high speed" hdmi certified cables should be able to handle 4k.

that said, the first half of your statement is spot on. you need 4k devices with hdmi 1.4 specs.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/4K.aspx
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post #5 of 10 Old 11-25-2011, 11:36 PM
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No-Either the player, receiver, or display device would have to upscale 1080p to 4k, presuming you are talking about a display device with native 4k resolution.

What makes you think an a/v receiver, whose manufacturers expertise lies mostly in audio, would do a better job scaling than the display device.
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post #6 of 10 Old 11-26-2011, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 View Post

i dont think the second half of your statement is correct if i recall correctly. the "high speed" hdmi certified cables should be able to handle 4k.

HDMI can pass 4K @ 24p. Higher frames rates require multiple HDMI connections...

Here's what Jim Peterson of Lumagen had to say a few weeks back:
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post

Unfortunately, the HDMI spec for 4K only deals with "4kx2k at 24p on a single wire." This is unfortunate in that you will not be able to drive the projector/display at 4kx2k at 60 (or 50) unless it has four inputs (or at leaset 2 of the new 3GHz HDMI inputs). So video sources are left out of the 4kx2k world for the new single wire HDMI 4kx2k connection.


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post #7 of 10 Old 11-26-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

HDMI can pass 4K @ 24p. Higher frames rates require multiple HDMI connections...

Here's what Jim Peterson of Lumagen had to say a few weeks back:

yup, I was just thinking in terms of 24p blurays, so I guess we split the difference?
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post #8 of 10 Old 11-26-2011, 09:06 AM
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The primary benefit of upscaling 525/625 is the elimination of scan lines. So I really don't see much need to upscale 1920 to 4K.

But then I don't see any need for 4K in a typical HT in the first place.

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post #9 of 10 Old 11-26-2011, 09:54 AM
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Hmm two more tv-one blend units and I already have two more marquee PJ's to get a four way blend to achieve 4k, now for source material via PC !!

lol

Athanasios
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post #10 of 10 Old 11-27-2011, 05:59 AM
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Nash - You don't need another set of TVOne's or even two more projectors to get the PQ functional equivalent of 4K. Zero cost!

As has been well researched, the vertical resolution is FAR more important than the horizontal. When they decided to double the 1080 lines, they were forced to also double the 1920 pixels because pixels are square. Your projectors don't have this limitation.

Since you are wisely using "Active Area Scanning" all you care about is 800 lines.
Therefore, keep the 800 lines you are sending to your TVOne's and change the output of each TVOne to 1064X1600, and you have 2K.

Using the entire height of you tube face, your 'Quee's should be able to handle it and the bandwidth is still within the doable range.

You might want to also try 1200 just for comparison.


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