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post #271 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Yes, This would be killer for the Lumagen Radiance. The ability to set different inputs with different Darbee settings is intriguing

Exactly, and even going further and setting different levels based on input resolution and/or Memory A-D.

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post #272 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

Sorry, we can't say who we are talking to.
-DD

Understood. I would simply suggest that if you aren't talking to Jim Peterson at Lumagen, you should.

Thanks,

Shawn
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post #273 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Exactly, and even going further and setting different levels based on input resolution and/or Memory A-D.

Shawn

Maybe it's just me....other owners can chime in, but source variables in whichever input on a Lumagen lets say....you have preset DVP for on each input....will require quick fine tuning for each new disc or program. It's OK having starting points for say....Bluray one input, HDTV tuner another input, Gaming another input, etc. But not all of any of those are created equal. I've found certainly with Bluray if there is an amount of grain in the director's style for the movie, it will need a more conservative setting. Avatar....have at it. That movie is made for what the Darblet can do....beyond fidelity enhancement.
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post #274 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

It's not that long of a thread yet, nickbuol, and those observations are definitely in it already coming from people with displays with excellent quality recent calibrations by one of the best.... Jeff Meier or "umr" on this site. Even comments from the calibrator himself in his own review on his site. My RS50, a Sony 95, even the new 4K VW1000ES. Another person in the $20,000+ forum with a Lumis. Snake oil....smoke & mirrors....hardly.


I will say if im flat out wrong and will consider purchasing one if I can get a professional calibrator like d-nice, or chad b confirming that it does not create inaccurate or oversaturated colors. Furthermore alot of us who spend time in blu-ray forum I would love to hear a vote of confidence from some of them who i do consider video purists. Contrast boosting which it seems sort of like what this is...is frowned upon generally as well as artificial sharpening.

If i can get some endorsements from an established calibrator, or purists from the blu-ray forum i would be on board and willing to buy one. Generally I dont agree with gimmicks as they artificially create unrealistic pictures, but again I might be completely wrong about this.

And the reason I mention blu-ray forum users is because i want to make sure there is no artificial ee or ringing created, or additional noise or pumped up contrast being added..there is very few pictures posted even on here. The general philosophy on there is to bypass all processing, and we dont like oversaturated, Edge enhancment, or contrast boosting some studios seem to enjoy.
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post #275 of 8188 Old 05-24-2012, 11:31 PM
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Would anyone be able to post one of your split-screen-shots showing a greyscale ramp and some sharpness test patterns (without re-calibrating)

I'm with Murilo
I can see here that the images do "pop".. but why do they pop?

I can put a still on my plasma, wind up the sharpness and it does pop.
then you change to some fast moving sport and it all turns to garbage.

I'm not against processing if it does enhance the image in such a way as to not produce any negative artifacts
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post #276 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

I will say if im flat out wrong and will consider purchasing one if I can get a professional calibrator like d-nice, or chad b confirming that it does not create inaccurate or oversaturated colors. Furthermore alot of us who spend time in blu-ray forum I would love to hear a vote of confidence from some of them who i do consider video purists. Contrast boosting which it seems sort of like what this is...is frowned upon generally as well as artificial sharpening.

If i can get some endorsements from an established calibrator, or purists from the blu-ray forum i would be on board and willing to buy one. Generally I dont agree with gimmicks as they artificially create unrealistic pictures, but again I might be completely wrong about this.

And the reason I mention blu-ray forum users is because i want to make sure there is no artificial ee or ringing created, or additional noise or pumped up contrast being added..there is very few pictures posted even on here. The general philosophy on there is to bypass all processing, and we dont like oversaturated, Edge enhancment, or contrast boosting some studios seem to enjoy.

Have you looked over the images on the Darbee website?:

http://darbeevision.com/gallery

Try the slider viewing option. This provides a better indication of the effect than my shakey-cam shots have. The demos use a stronger setting than I prefer, but they do show what it's capable of. You can choose whatever enhancement level you like from over-enhanced to undetectable. If you prefer subtle, set the level to be subtle.

I believe that AV Science will accept returns if you don't care for it. (You pay the shipping.) If you like what you see in the gallery demos, give it a try. If you're against any forms of enhancement out of principle, then don't...
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post #277 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 08:04 AM
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Any update on when they are expected to be in stock again?

barry
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post #278 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 08:59 AM
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This product does not function like the current detail enhancement circuits or sharpness controls. It appears to alter the local gamma with a variable bandpass logic. It is effective at restoring image sharpness lost from excessive electronic filtering or less than perfect optical systems without the characteristic edge enhancement from older methods. It is also capable of further enhancing the object contrast when the level is action is increased.

I will be purchasing this for my projection system, but not my Pioneer Elite plasma.
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post #279 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

This product does not function like the current detail enhancement circuits or sharpness controls. It appears to alter the local gamma with a variable bandpass logic. It is effective at restoring image sharpness lost from excessive electronic filtering or less than perfect optical systems without the characteristic edge enhancement from older methods. It is also capable of further enhancing the object contrast when the level is action is increased.

I will be purchasing this for my projection system, but not my Pioneer Elite plasma.

So in your opinion this wiil not benefit or improve on the pq of a properly calibrated Pioneer Elite plasma?

barry
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post #280 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 09:55 AM
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I have used mine on both my projector on a 127 X 54 screen and on my Pioneer Kuro Elite FD-151 (60") plasma. It works on both and improves the image on both (depending on personal preferences and settings, of course) - but, it is definitely more noticeable on the Projector/Screen than the plasma. The Kuro image is definitely enhanced, but it is far more subtle than the large projector/screen (Epson 6010/Stewart 137"D 2.35 aspect) at the same Darbee settings. I enjoy both and, in fact, am ordering a 2nd unit from AVS so that I don't have to keep switching the unit between the two displays. Bottom line, IMO, if you have a real HT with projector/screen you will likely appreciate the enhancement more than on a plasma. But that's not to suggest you won't like the plasma improvement - just that it's a bit more subtle if the image is already tweaked well, as my Kuro is.

Ray
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post #281 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post

So in your opinion this wiil not benefit or improve on the pq of a properly calibrated Pioneer Elite plasma?

barry

It is an enhancement on a Pioneer Elite that is properly setup and not a restoration of lost information. You may or may not like that. I do not. I am sure it would be worth while to those with less than perfect vision and those who like an enhanced image.

With my JVC projector it makes the image look very close to a $50,000 three chip DLP by restoring most of the lost sharpness from a lower system MTF without a significant increase in artifacts. That is easily worth the price of admission with this product for me. I have purchased no other external video processor in the past so I am no huge fan in general of these products, but this is an exception in my opinion.
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post #282 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

It is an enhancement on a Pioneer Elite that is properly setup and not a restoration of lost information. You may or may not like that. I do not. I am sure it would be worth while to those with less than perfect vision and those who like an enhanced image.

With my JVC projector it makes the image look very close to a $50,000 three chip DLP by restoring most of the lost sharpness from a lower system MTF without a significant increase in artifacts. That is easily worth the price of admission with this product for me. I have purchased no other external video processor in the past so I am no huge fan in general of these products, but this is an exception in my opinion.

Thanks for the explanation.

barry
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post #283 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post

Any update on when they are expected to be in stock again?

Can't say I understand it, but you can order one by phone (I just ordered one from Mark H yesterday), though they say they don't have enough to stock the online store.

Noah
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post #284 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Can't say I understand it, but you can order one by phone (I just ordered one from Mark H yesterday), though they say they don't have enough to stock the online store.

I was referring to the AVS store. I though they were only available through distributors now.

Thanks,
Barry
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post #285 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

It is an enhancement on a Pioneer Elite that is properly setup and not a restoration of lost information. You may or may not like that. I do not. I am sure it would be worth while to those with less than perfect vision and those who like an enhanced image.

With my JVC projector it makes the image look very close to a $50,000 three chip DLP by restoring most of the lost sharpness from a lower system MTF without a significant increase in artifacts. That is easily worth the price of admission with this product for me. I have purchased no other external video processor in the past so I am no huge fan in general of these products, but this is an exception in my opinion.

Still on the fence on this one. I have d-nice scheduled to tune-up my 600M in about 2 weeks and trying to decide if this would be worthwhile. I have never been a fan of any artifical enhancement but it seems this may be a different animal.

I may wait and get his input.

barry
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post #286 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post


I will say if im flat out wrong and will consider purchasing one if I can get a professional calibrator like d-nice, or chad b confirming that it does not create inaccurate or oversaturated colors. Furthermore alot of us who spend time in blu-ray forum I would love to hear a vote of confidence from some of them who i do consider video purists. Contrast boosting which it seems sort of like what this is...is frowned upon generally as well as artificial sharpening.

If i can get some endorsements from an established calibrator, or purists from the blu-ray forum i would be on board and willing to buy one. Generally I dont agree with gimmicks as they artificially create unrealistic pictures, but again I might be completely wrong about this.

And the reason I mention blu-ray forum users is because i want to make sure there is no artificial ee or ringing created, or additional noise or pumped up contrast being added..there is very few pictures posted even on here. The general philosophy on there is to bypass all processing, and we dont like oversaturated, Edge enhancment, or contrast boosting some studios seem to enjoy.

If you want strictly accuracy to what the source was encoded as, then you are pretty much are out of luck in regards to most of the video enhancement gear. Their whole purpose is to modify the picture, to give you something more pleasing.

The Darbee will change your picture too, as you turn it on, you can see your image change visibly, for the better.

The interesting thing is that Dr Darbee has said that it does not modify the chroma (colors) but rather just the luma channel (brightness) for each pixel.

I think that makes it an easy shoe-in for most people who are concerned about accuracy.

I'm using it with a number of sources, including Bluray.
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post #287 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post

Still on the fence on this one. I have d-nice scheduled to tune-up my 600M in about 2 weeks and trying to decide if this would be worthwhile. I have never been a fan of any artifical enhancement but it seems this may be a different animal.

I may wait and get his input.

barry

You will need to decide for yourself. No one can tell you if you will like this enhancement, but you. No one has a crystal ball into your preferences. Your best bet would be to hook one up and look at what it does.
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post #288 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

You will need to decide for yourself. No one can tell you if you will like this enhancement, but you. No one has a crystal ball into your preferences. Your best bet would be to hook one up and look at what it does.

True, but he may be able to explain or demonstrate any potential negative impact it may have.

barry
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post #289 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

Furthermore alot of us who spend time in blu-ray forum I would love to hear a vote of confidence from some of them who i do consider video purists.

Funny, in my experience, most of the people on that site's forum are more concerned with whether a disc comes with a slipcover than what it looks like.

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post #290 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post

True, but he may be able to explain or demonstrate any potential negative impact it may have.

barry

I looked at it pretty extensively and have significant capability in that area as well. I have been in major post production houses like Sony and Todd-AO and also work for professionals at their home and work who produce films for Delux, Sony, ILM, IMAX.... I have about $40,000 of test gear and custom engineered tools as well that deliver the best results possible.

There are negatives to this product. That is why it is an enhancement I would not use on my Pioneer Elite. The tradeoffs are worth it to me on my JVC projector.

Anything that alters the image going to the display is not providing the source as it was sent to you. What this can do with some projectors is restore some of the lost edge sharpness with little negative impact. Using this with other products with high MTF or using high levels of enhancement will alter the image sent to you. This can be a negative or a positive depending on your desire.

It does not add halos as found with other sharpening tools, but it does alter the image around regions where edges are found to various degrees. The higher the setting chosen the area affected around each edge is increased and the greater the change in signal levels used to increase the contrast. This can dramatically alter the image or more subtly depending on the level chosen. It can also increase the appearance of compression artifacts to various degrees depending on the level of enhancement chosen. From what I saw a low level of enhancement made the image on a JVC projector look about as sharp as a 3 chip DLP without any more increase in image artifacts than that sharper machine would have at showing them in the first place.
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post #291 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I looked at it pretty extensively and have significant capability in that area as well. I have been in major post production houses like Sony and Todd-AO and work for professionals at their home and work who produce films for Delux, Sony, ILM, IMAX.... I have about $40,000 of test gear and custom engineered tools as well that deliver the best results possible.

There are negatives to this product. That is why it is an enhancement I would not use on my Pioneer Elite. The tradeoffs are worth it to me on my JVC projector.

Anything that alters the image going to the display is not providing the source as it was sent to you. What this can do with some projectors is restore some of the lost edge sharpness with little negative impact. Using this with other products with high MTF or using high levels of enhancement will alter the image sent to you. This can be a negative or a positive depending on your desire.

It does not add halos as found with other sharpening tools, but it does alter the image around regions where edges are found to various degrees. The higher the setting chosen the area affected around each edge is increased and the greater the change in signal levels used to increase the contrast. This can dramatically alter the image or more subtly depending on the level chosen. It can also increase the appearance of compression artifacts to various degrees depending on the level of enhancement chosen. From what I saw a low level of enhancement made the image on a JVC projector look about as sharp as a 3 chip DLP without any more increase in image artifacts than that sharper machine would have at showing them in the first place.

Thanks for the detailed explaination. You have been very helpful.

barry
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post #292 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 12:07 PM
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I ordered one last week from AVS. I think they're getting stock in shortly so hopefully I'll have it in the next week....can't wait to play with it.

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post #293 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 01:56 PM
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An ISF caibrator I know has just tried a unit... He said that there is a color and gamma shift when you bump the settings above 50-80 depending on selected mode. It is best left at about 50 or less in the HD mode.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #294 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 02:27 PM
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I am putting mine on the IRULE where it will be very easy to tweak and bypass as needed.

Any help from Darbee doing this appreciated but I can always learn the codes from their remote.

I'll start with an IR emitter but may later bypass the internal Darblet IR receiver and go direct unmodulated IR in. More relaible this way.

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post #295 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 02:52 PM
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I called and ordered one today. I was told shipment would arrive on the 30th for AVS.
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post #296 of 8188 Old 05-25-2012, 04:16 PM
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I ordered one as well. Should shipped next week, after memorial weekend.
Since I have an RS55, and given UMR comment, I am having high hopes of this+e-shift, as I am doing zoom for 2.35!
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post #297 of 8188 Old 05-26-2012, 06:33 AM
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Anyone notice handshking errors with this thing in the chain? Also, would it be best to run a 6' cable to it or does that really matter?
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post #298 of 8188 Old 05-26-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

An ISF caibrator I know has just tried a unit... He said that there is a color and gamma shift when you bump the settings above 50-80 depending on selected mode. It is best left at about 50 or less in the HD mode.

So is the Calibrator saying that below 50-80 that there is NO color and gamma shift and above those settings there is?

I ask because we never shift the color vector, nor shift contrast in a global way that could be confused with a gamma modification.

Can you specify the content/media player/display and test equipment and protocol. This is very interesting to us.

-DD
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post #299 of 8188 Old 05-26-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrew View Post

Anyone notice handshking errors with this thing in the chain? Also, would it be best to run a 6' cable to it or does that really matter?

I was having a handshake issue with my Cox DVR and the Darblet has actually totally eliminated the problem. Just one more reason I'm a true fan.

Cable length should not be a problem. I'm running a short Monoprice HDMI 3x1 pigtail switch in and 9' HDMI cable out to my display but also tried a 9' cable in as well without a problem.
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post #300 of 8188 Old 05-27-2012, 08:41 AM
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Just some questions:

1. Is there a video of the Darbee Vision algorithm available I can replay on my Plasma TV / projector ? Fudoh asked about that 3-4 weeks ago.

2. Is there a distributor in germany / europe to order such a device ?

3. Is it possible to do a firmware upgrade to the Darbee device ?

4. Does the device also support a voltage of 220V like usually used in germany ?

Sources: Panasonic BDT-110, Toshiba HD-XE-1, Vantage VT-1S
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