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post #4141 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gurkey

It is within the human nature, that one defends those things, he invested in (good or bad).
Just read through all he threads of owners of a product.
It usually is no proof as long as there are no real reviews with proven objective data or measurements.
Imagination is certainly great and has its merits but it hampers objectivity....


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Originally Posted by rboster View Post

That's true, but what are you observations of the product in your set up?


I love the attitude of someone dropping in late on this discussion of the Darbee technology and product by actual users of the product, and declaring it's just people rationalizing or defending their purchase ....and also saying definitively there have been no "real" reviews (of any "substance" reading between lines) done yet. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #4142 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 12:27 PM
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Oh BTW... Smarthome does NOT offer "30 Day No Hassle Returns" on this product. Farther down in the product description they state they will not take a return on this item. I tried returning with no luck , and have just emailed their management. I doubt I will get a response that I like. I bought from them only because of this return policy, I didnt think I would have had to read every detail to see they wouldnt take it back.

EDIT: Got a response, Darbee insists on all returns going through them for some reason.
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post #4143 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

It's my understanding, it's best to leave Deep Colour Off! Nothing at the current times utilizes it.
How are the members that use the iScan Duo finding the results?

I've had no issues. I leave my DUO in 12 bit output mode because that is what it was set for when I had my last professional calibration. The Darblet is input 444 12 bit and outputs to my LED DLP in the same format that I send to the Darblet.. I have not had any banding from the Darblet output. I've also run the color test patterns from my DUO through the darblet and not seen any banding with those either.

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post #4144 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Originally Posted by gurkey
It is within the human nature, that one defends those things, he invested in (good or bad).
Just read through all he threads of owners of a product.
It usually is no proof as long as there are no real reviews with proven objective data or measurements.
Imagination is certainly great and has its merits but it hampers objectivity....
I love the attitude of someone dropping in late on this discussion of the Darbee technology and product by actual users of the product, and declaring it's just people rationalizing or defending their purchase ....and also saying definitively there have been no "real" reviews (of any "substance" reading between lines) done yet. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

It does get a little frustrating when ppl compare darbee to X or review the reviewers (read: generalize) and yet they have not yet tried the product. In reverse, I would hope if the product doesn't work in someone's set up (meeting one's needs), those that are satisfied owner's would accept that it's not for everyone.

I certainly fall into the tried it and love it category (I bought a second one), but it works in my set up. The results vs the cost was a no brainer for me (but may not be for others).

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post #4145 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 01:43 PM
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I bought mine used off a guy with the same projector as me. At first I tried it with my TV (40" and 12' viewing distance) and didn't think it was worth bothering for me, but then when I tried it with my projector I felt it added a little extra to the picture and justified it's place in my equipment rack. Funny how two people with the same display have two different takes on it, but at least we both tried it and got what we want in the end. smile.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #4146 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

It's my understanding, it's best to leave Deep Colour Off! Nothing at the current times utilizes it.
How are the members that use the iScan Duo finding the results?

I was getting random full picture drop-outs, and only on certain blu-rays. I turned Deep Color off, and the probably went away.

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post #4147 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

I was getting random full picture drop-outs, and only on certain blu-rays. I turned Deep Color off, and the probably went away.

Probably just that you were pushing extra data through the cable so it was on the limit of working or not...

I tested my existing cable (5 years old 1080p grade at the time) and it would run 36 bit at 1080/60p but occasionally drop out completely. It is fine on 'regular' 1080/60p 4:2:2 8 bit.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #4148 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 03:47 PM
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hi!
just got my Darbee v3...only had time for a quick check...
picture is pink...??
i'm feeding from Boxee Box 422 or 444 colorspace and Darbee shows all in pink...?(without Darbee all good)

what might the issue be?
cheers!/H
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post #4149 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 03:55 PM
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Check your display settings: Sounds like it is expecting a different colourspace such as 4:4:4 and it's getting RGB. If there is an auto setting try that or manually change until you get the right colours. smile.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #4150 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I've had no issues. I leave my DUO in 12 bit output mode because that is what it was set for when I had my last professional calibration. The Darblet is input 444 12 bit and outputs to my LED DLP in the same format that I send to the Darblet.. I have not had any banding from the Darblet output. I've also run the color test patterns from my DUO through the darblet and not seen any banding with those either.

Thanks for that info, but what I would like to know is my Duo has edge enhancing, contrast, color, and sharpening adjustments that are all at 0. wouldn't using these give the same effect as the Darbee? Is there something differant or better processing in the Darbee that my iScan Duo does not have?
I hope this hasn't been answered before and I missed it, as I did do a search. TIA
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post #4151 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 04:39 PM
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Considering your AVS username, I assume you use Photoshop rather extensively. Essentially, from my observations, the Darblet process is akin (but not the same as) the Unsharp Mask process in Photoshop CS3 or newer.

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post #4152 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irfan View Post


Oh BTW... Smarthome does NOT offer "30 Day No Hassle Returns" on this product. Farther down in the product description they state they will not take a return on this item. I tried returning with no luck , and have just emailed their management. I doubt I will get a response that I like. I bought from them only because of this return policy, I didnt think I would have had to read every detail to see they wouldnt take it back.
EDIT: Got a response, Darbee insists on all returns going through them for some reason.

You may return the product by sending me a PM or an email to get an RMA#.

-DD
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post #4153 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KONICA TECH View Post

Thanks for that info, but what I would like to know is my Duo has edge enhancing, contrast, color, and sharpening adjustments that are all at 0. wouldn't using these give the same effect as the Darbee? Is there something differant or better processing in the Darbee that my iScan Duo does not have?
I hope this hasn't been answered before and I missed it, as I did do a search. TIA

Here is the link to our White Paper.

Written more like a marketing tool, it describes the genesis and development of the technology.

A fun read and written to be an easy to understand explanation of why our technology works and why ours is a different approach than all others.

http://darbeevision.com/assets/documents/DarbeeVision%20Whitepaper%20with%20Tech%20Details%2020120415.pdf

-DD
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post #4154 of 8121 Old 10-08-2012, 09:54 PM
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Thanks DD and David for the info....sold me!
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post #4155 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Considering your AVS username, I assume you use Photoshop rather extensively. Essentially, from my observations, the Darblet process is akin (but not the same as) the Unsharp Mask process in Photoshop CS3 or newer.

This is exactly my impression. Unsharp mask with radius around 50 and low amount (eg, around 20) would make very similar effect. Nothing magic but ppl use it for pic processing all the time.
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post #4156 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KONICA TECH View Post

Thanks for that info, but what I would like to know is my Duo has edge enhancing, contrast, color, and sharpening adjustments that are all at 0. wouldn't using these give the same effect as the Darbee? Is there something differant or better processing in the Darbee that my iScan Duo does not have?
I hope this hasn't been answered before and I missed it, as I did do a search. TIA

I can't duplicate the effect of the Darblet with my DUO or my Algolith Flea. Those two devices will affect the entire picture. The Darblet doesn't necessarily affect the entire picture with it's processing.

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post #4157 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Check your display settings: Sounds like it is expecting a different colourspace such as 4:4:4 and it's getting RGB. If there is an auto setting try that or manually change until you get the right colours. smile.gif

the issue was/is with my hdmi switch....strangely it works ok when i use boxee/oppo 93->darbee->switch->pioneer tv...
but not when boxee/oppo/93->darbee->switch->epson tw9000 (6010) projector..?..hmm
further investigation ongoing..
cheers!/Harry
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post #4158 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max90034 View Post

This is exactly my impression. Unsharp mask with radius around 50 and low amount (eg, around 20) would make very similar effect. Nothing magic but ppl use it for pic processing all the time.

Ummmmm.....worth a reminder every now and then that nothing out there in Photoshop or any other still imaging software or professional grading technology for motion images....."starts" the whole process by creating new left and right offset and disparate images from the original in real time, and then works from that point with patented and IP protected processing.
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post #4159 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 05:44 PM
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I wonder if this same technology can be used for audio.
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post #4160 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post


Ummmmm.....worth a reminder every now and then that nothing out there in Photoshop or any other still imaging software or professional grading technology for motion images....."starts" the whole process by creating new left and right offset and disparate images from the original in real time, and then works from that point with patented and IP protected processing.

True Ron .... but could the resultant effect still be the same as what the Darbee produces?

 

BTW is it better to get the Darbee from AVS or from Amazon? I'm more familiar with Amazon and nver have bought from AVS.


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post #4161 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sylar911 View Post

I wonder if this same technology can be used for audio.

Yes i believe it can since when someone else asked the same question, DD said "No Comment"cool.gif


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post #4162 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Ummmmm.....worth a reminder every now and then that nothing out there in Photoshop or any other still imaging software or professional grading technology for motion images....."starts" the whole process by creating new left and right offset and disparate images from the original in real time, and then works from that point with patented and IP protected processing.

True, but end result is very extremely close. Even the white paper mentioned that the end result is similar to unsharp mask and funny enough I didn't even read the whitepaper until DD posted the link to it. biggrin.gif

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post #4163 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

True, but end result is very extremely close. Even the white paper mentioned that the end result is similar to unsharp mask and funny enough I didn't even read the whitepaper until DD posted the link to it. biggrin.gif

The paper actually states that the results are quite unlike the unsharp mask filter.

"Despite the ubiquity of the unsharp mask in modern image processing software, defocusing one image of a stereo pair and subtracting it from the other image is quite unlike an unsharp mask. In those parts of the two images that are different due to the parallax disparity that arises from the displaced vantage points of the left and right cameras, the alterations to the final image are interpreted by the brain as genuine depth cues. Where the viewpoints are converged and the disparity is low, the process does revert to an unsharp mask and emphasizes image details, but in natural scenes containing 3D objects, there is always some disparity, so defocusing-and-subtracting embeds depth cues."

Compare DVP vs. Sharpening by using the One Eye method and you will easily see the magnitude of the difference.

-DD
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post #4164 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 08:25 PM
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Before I go blind looking for it, can you provide a link to the "one eye method" you keep mentioning?

I presume it's something like this:

http://www.mediacollege.com/3d/depth-perception/test.html

Thanks.


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post #4165 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Before I go blind looking for it, can you provide a link to the "one eye method" you keep mentioning?

I presume it's something like this:

http://www.mediacollege.com/3d/depth-perception/test.html

Thanks.

 

Please check Post 614 in this thread.


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post #4166 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 10:02 PM
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Heck ... after much wrangling and finger biting, i bit the bullet and bought the Darblet from Amazon (they had a zero shipping thing and even more ...no sales tax, which are quite high in Calitongue.gif). I hope its a "No Drama" install with my system which consists of an OPPO-95 + Moxi HD DVR Cable box  ===> Anthem D2v Pre-Pro  ===>  Pioneer Elite PRO151 60" Plasma TV.

 

I also have a Redmere 50-ft HDMI cable with built-in EQ from the Anthem to the Plasma, so the question i have whether its better to place the Darbee on the Plasma side or the Anthem Pre-Pro side?  If placed on the Anthem side, what length of short cable should be used between PrePro and Darblet? I'm also at a loss on how to cleanly & neatly install this thing in my closed vertical rackconfused.gif


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post #4167 of 8121 Old 10-09-2012, 11:48 PM
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Just bought the Darbee and it's a neat little gadget. It does make a noticeable difference, better??? that's for each to decide and I decide... I like it.

Right now I run it in HD mode at 55-60% I keep turning it up then back down to see what effect it has and I think I've settled on the 55-60% area.

It sharpens everything up just enough and not look overdone, maybe turned my Epson LCD to more of a DLP type projector???? (in sharpness)
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post #4168 of 8121 Old 10-10-2012, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

 

Please check Post 614 in this thread.

Thanks, though a link (post #614) would have helped. wink.gif

I ask because I cannot use binoculars or any of the existing 3D tech without getting a splitting headache, and I'm wondering if I would be prone to the same problem with this device. Probably won't know without trying it.

 

Has it been added to the Harmony database yet?


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post #4169 of 8121 Old 10-10-2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Thanks, though a link (post #614) would have helped. wink.gif
I ask because I cannot use binoculars or any of the existing 3D tech without getting a splitting headache, and I'm wondering if I would be prone to the same problem with this device. Probably won't know without trying it.

Has it been added to the Harmony database yet?

Regarding the Harmony DB, not when I looked several weeks ago. However, it only takes a few minutes to learn the commands, since there are so few.

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post #4170 of 8121 Old 10-10-2012, 07:43 AM
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I've had the Darbee for two plus weeks now and here's MY few short thoughts thus far...

For the cost, it's a steal! My set-up: Oppo 95 (Source Direct mode and 4-4-4 Color Space) -> Darbee -> Panasonic 65GT50 (with 1080p Pure Direct engaged)
I sit about 10 feet from the screen. I've done a lot of testing/viewing various Blu-ray and DVD content, both with images paused and moving. In nearly every instance, the Darbee makes the viewing more pleasurable. Yes, 'lifts the veil' certainly fits. It's as if the camera lens is focused to its ultimate. Of all three modes, HD Mode is best for most all, except for animation where I use the POP Mode. The ONLY caveat to the positives I've experienced thus far is with Blu-rays with heavier grain structure. It seems to exacerbate the grain to where the image looks a bit unnatural. In those cases, I simply turn the Darbee down/off. 55% to 60% seems to be the optimum for my set-up. Frankly, I see no difference on a paused image between 55% and 60%, they look identical to my eyes. Testing between HD and POP Modes with animation favors POP Mode. It just looks better to me! Unreal, actually. Watching a bit of Toy Story 2 and Monsters, Inc. last night had me in awe. I also popped in Prometheus last night for 20 minutes and in HD Mode at 60%, it was some of the best images (if not thee best) I've ever seen. In my configuration, I have had ZERO issues with the Darbee. It's been perfect and has made my HT viewing beyond anything I could image. So, for those with flat-panel displays, there's a real good chance that you will see a much improved image. This thread and this post should tell you that. Now, if I can just break this nasty habit of pausing BR images and turning the Darbee OFF and ON to see the differences! smile.gif Thanks for letting me share...
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