Darbee vision darblet - Page 175 - AVS Forum
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post #5221 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post

Who ya gonna believe, Dr. Darbee's engineers or the User Manual Writer's engineers?? smile.gif

I've searched Dr. Darbee's posts and the closest response I can find to the 4:4:4 /4:2:2 issue is this response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKEMON

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr

I have answered this a couple of times, mostly for those interested in video gaming and audio sync.
Another way to put the answer is this:
The HDMI 1.4 spec demands 165 MHz for 1080p/60fps, or put another way, allows 165,000,000 ops/sec.
Since we pass a (10bit/color channel) pixel to the output within this specification, we are putting pixels (first in, first out) across our circuit with a total latency of 3 microseconds.
The latency is inconsequential for any human factors of perception for image or audio, even for video gaming.
-DD[/quote
Hello DD. My setup is OPPO BDP-95 to Kuro 141FD using HD Base-T hdmi over cat 6 Beldin Mediatwist. this allows me to utilize the 12bit pixel depth Deep Color setting on the OPPO and Kuro.
will this present a problem using the Darbee Darblet since it only passes a 10 bit output?

Here is the response from our engineer:

"This should not be an issue. The Darblet will accept the 12-bit input, reduce it to 10-bit internally, and then after processing kick the signal back up to 12-bit for output. This means that, when Darbee is OFF, the output will not _exactly_ match the input signal, but the difference will of course imperceptible."

-DD

I don't believe this implies that the Darbee processes internally at RGB - anyone else have any info on this question?

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post #5222 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

I don't believe this implies that the Darbee processes internally at RGB - anyone else have any info on this question?

I don't know where the exact post is, but I definitely remember Dr. Darbee confirming that the Darblet processes internally at RGB.

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post #5223 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I don't know where the exact post is, but I definitely remember Dr. Darbee confirming that the Darblet processes internally at RGB.


OK - I found the post #2030 where Darbee Dr provides a colorspace processing matrix. As I understand the chart - the Darbee will output the same signal that it receives. So if you send RGB it will output RGB, likewise 4:4:4 in 4:4:4 out. It seems that these changes were implemented in a previous firmware update to address problems customers were having with Lumagen products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

From our Engineer:
For software version 2.8.2214, firmware version 1.3.21:
Input Colorspace Internal Processing Colorspace Output Colorspace(s)
YCrCb 4:2:2 RGB Video Range YCrCb 4:2:2
YCrCb 4:4:4 RGB Video Range YCrCb 4:4:4
RGB 16-235 RGB Video Range RGB 16-235
RGB 0-255 RGB PC Range RGB 0-255
-DD
~William

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post #5224 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

4:4:4 is also Deep Colour - Reset down to 4:2:2.

Picked up a Sony S590 which does have both deep color and 4:4:4/4:2:2/RGB settings. With the Darblet installed, the player worked, then didn't. I shut off the deep color, and set to 4:2:2. All working so far.
Not having these settings on my Samsung, I guess I'm not missing much, but, could someone explain the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2. I know what deep color does, and I understand that you need a 1.4 hdmi cable to use.
I guess the deep color and/or 4:4:4 settings are a known issues with the Darblet, but do the advantages of the Darblet out way giving up deep color?
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post #5225 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 05:52 PM
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So how do I set it on my Oppo 93 while I do not have a 3D projector nor a 1.4 Hdmi cable. Thanks.

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post #5226 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 05:53 PM
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I appreciate what the Darbee is able to acomplish. I was under the impression that is was most effective with Blu-ray, and less effective with standard DVDs. Not so, improvement can also be discerned with DVDs. But the quality of the DVD has a bearing on the Darbee's contribution. Garbage in, garbage our, regardless of the prosessing. But improvements are discernable
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Question: Is there a process for turning the Darbee logo (in the lower right of the screen) off once the mode and percentage is chosen?. I find it to be distracting when viewing the picture.
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post #5227 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post

Contrary to what the User Manual says, the Darbee processes internally with RGB, NOT 4/4/4. Dr. Darbee posted this several pages ago after conferring with their engineers.

Well, apparently in the Home Theater article by Kris Deering it states : "The device does its processing in the Y/Cb/Cr domain.".
Maybe they need to update the online manuals!
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post #5228 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkemac View Post

I appreciate what the Darbee is able to acomplish. I was under the impression that is was most effective with Blu-ray, and less effective with standard DVDs. Not so, improvement can also be discerned with DVDs. But the quality of the DVD has a bearing on the Darbee's contribution. Garbage in, garbage our, regardless of the prosessing. But improvements are discernable
.
Question: Is there a process for turning the Darbee logo (in the lower right of the screen) off once the mode and percentage is chosen?. I find it to be distracting when viewing the picture.
Yes it is in the settings menu. Took me a while to find it also.

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post #5229 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 06:25 PM
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All this talk about 12 bit Video - where is this sourced from?
Deep Colour - haven't heard of any sources of this either at the present time.
All the 4:4:4 and Deep Colour does, is put unnecessary loads on the HDMI cables - so, if not required, don't use!
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post #5230 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 06:30 PM
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2 questions regarding this unit:
1) Is there any detriment to leaving the Darbee "On" when not in use for extended time. We always shut off other items when not in use ie) bluray player, receiver, etc.
2) Is there a discrete off code for this item?

thanks for any help, Jeff.

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post #5231 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

2 questions regarding this unit:
1) Is there any detriment to leaving the Darbee "On" when not in use for extended time. We always shut off other items when not in use ie) bluray player, receiver, etc.
2) Is there a discrete off code for this item?
thanks for any help, Jeff.

It doesn't turn off. The red light remains on. It is the blue light that turns on or off but that is determined whether a signal is coming through or not

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post #5232 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkemac View Post

I appreciate what the Darbee is able to acomplish. I was under the impression that is was most effective with Blu-ray, and less effective with standard DVDs. Not so, improvement can also be discerned with DVDs. But the quality of the DVD has a bearing on the Darbee's contribution. Garbage in, garbage our, regardless of the prosessing. But improvements are discernable
.
Question: Is there a process for turning the Darbee logo (in the lower right of the screen) off once the mode and percentage is chosen?. I find it to be distracting when viewing the picture.

Yes it is under the settings. Something about the logo. I turned mine off right away.

And I agree, the better the source, the better Darbee works. I had a poorly sourced Blu-Ray and the Darbee effects (even on Hidef 45% setting) seemed to make it worse. In this case it was "noise" and EE in the source. On solid Blu-Ray transfers, the Darbee really shines. It is definitely a keeper for me, now if I could just get Comcast to work with it through my Denon...
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post #5233 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

It doesn't turn off. The red light remains on. It is the blue light that turns on or off but that is determined whether a signal is coming through or not
thankyou. now that I read your response my question seems dumb. should have realized that. again thanks.

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post #5234 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

All this talk about 12 bit Video - where is this sourced from?
Deep Colour - haven't heard of any sources of this either at the present time.
All the 4:4:4 and Deep Colour does, is put unnecessary loads on the HDMI cables - so, if not required, don't use!

Nicely put, but why would the players have these settings?
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post #5235 of 8399 Old 12-27-2012, 09:52 PM
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I send 12 bit 4:4:4 to my Darblet from my iScan DUO without any issues. The only issue I had was if I sent 10bit. The Darblet did not like it. But 12 bit or 8 bit was fine with the Darblet. And since the system had been calibrated several times with 4:4:4, 12 bit output, that is where it has stayed.

No idea what I will do when I start using the auto cal feature on the DUO and get a Mitusbishi DLP to replace my Sammy LED DLP.
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post #5236 of 8399 Old 12-28-2012, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post

Nicely put, but why would the players have these settings?

Mostly because it's just something to add to the spec list wink.gif though some displays might give better results, in general the deepcolour settings on many devices just add exttra zeros so they are purely 'padding' rather than extra 'detail'.

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post #5237 of 8399 Old 12-28-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

All this talk about 12 bit Video - where is this sourced from?
Deep Colour - haven't heard of any sources of this either at the present time.
All the 4:4:4 and Deep Colour does, is put unnecessary loads on the HDMI cables - so, if not required, don't use!

Unnecessary loads? If the cables are rated for high speed, then it won't be an issue. The only issue may be in a device downstream not passing on all the bits.
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post #5238 of 8399 Old 12-28-2012, 09:44 AM
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The thing is that it's a bit pointless sending the higher bit depth in the first place as it doesn't achieve anything other than higher bit rates down the cable. Given the number of people having issues with blanking or drop outs on here and on other threads, then IMHO it would be better if the deepcolour option was removed from players, etc, so the unwary don't used them thinking that they are somehow going to get a 'better' result if they do. Kind of like 'I've paid for this feature so I'm going to use it' attitude.

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post #5239 of 8399 Old 12-28-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

The thing is that it's a bit pointless sending the higher bit depth in the first place as it doesn't achieve anything other than higher bit rates down the cable. Given the number of people having issues with blanking or drop outs on here and on other threads, then IMHO it would be better if the deepcolour option was removed from players, etc, so the unwary don't used them thinking that they are somehow going to get a 'better' result if they do. Kind of like 'I've paid for this feature so I'm going to use it' attitude.

I can see the 'point' of your opinion. Again, if you have good quality cables, and are still getting dropouts,etc, you have some other component in the chain with an issue. Good time to figure it out, before that 4K video shows up in your system! (I hope it will NOT be using the current HDMI type cable connectors! Aren't there aftermarket locks for those?
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post #5240 of 8399 Old 12-28-2012, 11:40 AM
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The current HDMI cables handle 4K. The current HDMI spec handles 4K so the hdmi ports should be the same. Just like the current crop of 4k capable receivers. In my use of Hdmi over the last eight years the hdmi cables always fit snugly. Sometimes too snugly. Over 100 hdmi devices and over 100 hdmi cables and I've yet to have an issue with a loose one
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As I understand it deep color capability is added in to some equipment for future use when it becomes available in source material and does nothing for picture quality at this time.
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post #5242 of 8399 Old 12-28-2012, 12:22 PM
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I'd tend to believe my eyes. If one signal type gave me problems and the other didn't - I'd use the latter.smile.gif
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post #5243 of 8399 Old 12-28-2012, 05:42 PM
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Deep Colour Settings have been in Electronics now for how many Years? By the time, they may even start talking about Deep Colour, all our present Electronics will have been in recycling for, again, how many years? I think it's put in, to just mess with our heads, and handshaking!
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post #5244 of 8399 Old 12-28-2012, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I send 12 bit 4:4:4 to my Darblet from my iScan DUO without any issues. The only issue I had was if I sent 10bit. The Darblet did not like it. But 12 bit or 8 bit was fine with the Darblet. And since the system had been calibrated several times with 4:4:4, 12 bit output, that is where it has stayed.
No idea what I will do when I start using the auto cal feature on the DUO and get a Mitusbishi DLP to replace my Sammy LED DLP.

I concur regarding the 10-bit thingie. I have to bring down the colour depth to 8-bit on my WDTV Live! yet I can use 16-bit colour depth on my Elite BDP-62FD through the Darbee with no problem.

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post #5245 of 8399 Old 12-29-2012, 12:09 PM
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Well I tried swapping out the cheaper, shorter HDMI cables with the 8' Blue Jeans cables and the Comcast RNG150 box, Darbee, and my Denon receiver just will not play nice. Flashing magnetta/green screen. The Comcast box is set to 4:4:4 colorspace, and there seems to be no way to change this to 4:2:2. I tried RGB, but this setting will not stick.

I just have the Blu-Ray player hooked up to the Darbee now. Any other thoughs or options, or am I pretty much screwed?
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post #5246 of 8399 Old 12-29-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Well I tried swapping out the cheaper, shorter HDMI cables with the 8' Blue Jeans cables and the Comcast RNG150 box, Darbee, and my Denon receiver just will not play nice. Flashing magnetta/green screen. The Comcast box is set to 4:4:4 colorspace, and there seems to be no way to change this to 4:2:2. I tried RGB, but this setting will not stick.
I just have the Blu-Ray player hooked up to the Darbee now. Any other thoughs or options, or am I pretty much screwed?

The setting for RGB might stick if you turn on the AVR before you turn on the display. Then when you shut down turn the display off first before you turn off the Denon.

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post #5247 of 8399 Old 12-29-2012, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

The setting for RGB might stick if you turn on the AVR before you turn on the display. Then when you shut down turn the display off first before you turn off the Denon.

I will give that a shot, thanks.
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post #5248 of 8399 Old 12-29-2012, 09:35 PM
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I've yet to have the chance to sit and play with the Darblet feeding my RS55, however, would like to know what others have found when considering their monitor or pj's sharpness/detail settings. Prior to the Darblet, I enjoyed having the RS55 set at 15 sharpness and 10 detail. Would it be advisable to leave and adjust the Darblet strength or set the pj sharpness/detail to 0 first?
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post #5249 of 8399 Old 12-30-2012, 02:50 AM
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Personally I'd set the projector's controls at or very near zero. On both my JVC projectors I've found that only a notch or two above zero causes ringing and moire effect on certain patterns, so I set them low enough to avoid this. IMHO 15/10 is more than high enough to cause these issues with mine. If you look closely at edges you will see that all the sharpness control does is add a white line around a black edge (and visa versa) so isn't adding sharpness at all, just an 'etched' effect. The Darbee will give the impression of greater sharpness without causing ringing effects, so seems to be a better option for me anyway.

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post #5250 of 8399 Old 12-30-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Personally I'd set the projector's controls at or very near zero. On both my JVC projectors I've found that only a notch or two above zero causes ringing and moire effect on certain patterns, so I set them low enough to avoid this. IMHO 15/10 is more than high enough to cause these issues with mine. If you look closely at edges you will see that all the sharpness control does is add a white line around a black edge (and visa versa) so isn't adding sharpness at all, just an 'etched' effect. The Darbee will give the impression of greater sharpness without causing ringing effects, so seems to be a better option for me anyway.

Many thanks for your opinion, it's exactly what I was looking for:)
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