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post #541 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cR4p View Post

I tried ordering, they only ship to USA/Canada
Sorry I should of stated that you need to contact AVS Sales Directly (Email)
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post #542 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 10:19 AM
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I had a few dropouts last night on directv through my Duo VP to the Darblet. Hope I don't have a problem. Seemed fine the night before with bluray so maybe it was just that channel.
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post #543 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post

Check Chronicles of Riddick if you have it. I just verified I was setup to RGB/PC output into the Darblet, so should be seeing same as you. Start with POP mode at 120% to make the issue very obvious. Chapter 2 - when the planet name is on screen there are clear trails/shadows on some of the letters. When you switch to other modes you can then see them too. Backing down to about 40% and they blend away.
I'm pretty certain this isn't in the source because it looks clean with no processing and I suspect this is simply to do with the algorithm used and the particular colours in that scene. BUT it *IS* a visual artefact, and one that is likely to occur in other parts of the image; the sharp text just makes it obvious. Thus one needs to be careful about the amount of processing used.
This was noted on my 15' wide 2.35:1 projection setup. But also on my 40" LCD TV I see artefacts in the EPG. However, due to the smaller screen size I can push processing higher before it becomes obvious.
Having said this I HAVE ordered a second Darblet so that I can support my cinema and TV separately as I *DO* like what it does biggrin.gif
I guess my point is that, as with all processing, often LESS is MORE...

I don't have that movie but will try some other movies and will llet you know. I saw some credits and didn't notice any artifacts but will keep an eye out.
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post #544 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I don't have that movie but will try some other movies and will llet you know. I saw some credits and didn't notice any artifacts but will keep an eye out.

Look for text on complicated backgrounds... I didn't notice it on the Riddick menus for instance which are very clean...

My cinema: The Cave!

My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, Sony vw1000es, Lumagen 2144, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500

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post #545 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post

Look for text on complicated backgrounds... I didn't notice it on the Riddick menus for instance which are very clean...

So it has to be scrolling text or does it do it with stationary text too?
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post #546 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

So it has to be scrolling text or does it do it with stationary text too?

Have only noticed it on stationary text so far...

My cinema: The Cave!

My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, Sony vw1000es, Lumagen 2144, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500

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post #547 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 12:23 PM
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Just to make sure I understand...I have a Iscan Duo outputting to a JVC RS40 with a darblett in chain between the two.

Should I be outputting RGB instead of 4:4:4 ? Is this for both the sources or just the Iscan Duo?
Thanks,
-Alex-
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post #548 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cR4p View Post

I can't find a better word, maybe you should find one for me that is less offensive.
I just bought one so I'm supporting the product and at that price if it doesn't work I can use it as a door holder or a paperweight but by reading this forum it's pretty obvious it's still running in beta mode so we can expect a few firmware updates only for bug fixes and that mean I have to ship it from Europe every time if I choose to, the omission of such feature is pretty well... it's like if Lumagen was doing the same with their Radiance

The lack of research on your part does not excuse the wording of your post. There is no omission concerning updates. On the product page at darbeevision.com a link to the user guide is posted. In the user guide is the following statement.

Quote:
We are continuing to develop improvements to the Darbee Visual Presence algorithm. Check our website, www.darbeevision.com, for upgrade announcements. Your Darblet is upgradeable after purchase, although you will have to send it in to receive new firmware, and there may be a processing charge.
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post #549 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 12:59 PM
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have you even read what I wrote and what you pasted, I mean you're highlighting it yourself...
Quote:
although you will have to send it in to receive new firmware, and there may be a processing charge.
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post #550 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cR4p View Post

I can't find a better word, maybe you should find one for me that is less offensive.
I just bought one so I'm supporting the product and at that price if it doesn't work I can use it as a door holder or a paperweight but by reading this forum it's pretty obvious it's still running in beta mode so we can expect a few firmware updates only for bug fixes and that mean I have to ship it from Europe every time if I choose to, the omission of such feature is pretty well... it's like if Lumagen was doing the same with their Radiance

Mental retardation (MR) is a generalized disorder appearing before adulthood, characterized by significantly impaired cognitive functioning and deficits in two or more adaptive behaviors. It has historically been defined as an Intelligence Quotient score under 70.[1] Once focused almost entirely on cognition, the definition now includes both a component relating to mental functioning and one relating to individuals' functional skills in their environment. As a result, a person with a below-average intelligence quotient (BAIQ) may not be considered mentally retarded. Syndromic mental retardation is intellectual deficits associated with other medical and behavioral signs and symptoms. Non-syndromic mental retardation refers to intellectual deficits that appear without other abnormalities.

The terms used to describe this condition are subject to a process called the euphemism treadmill. This means that whatever term is chosen for this condition, it eventually becomes perceived as an insult. The terms mental retardation and mentally retarded were invented in the middle of the 20th century to replace the previous set of terms, which were deemed to have become offensive. By the end of the 20th century, these terms themselves have come to be widely seen as disparaging and politically incorrect and in need of replacement.[2] The term intellectual disability or intellectually challenged is now preferred by most advocates in most English-speaking countries. Clinically, however, mental retardation is a subtype of intellectual disability, which is a broader concept and includes intellectual deficits that are too mild to properly qualify as mental retardation, too specific (as in specific learning disability), or acquired later in life, through acquired brain injuries or neurodegenerative diseases like dementia. Intellectual disabilities may appear at any age. Developmental disability is any disability that is due to problems with growth and development. This term encompasses many congenital medical conditions that have no mental or intellectual components, although it, too, is sometimes used as a euphemism for MR.[3] Because of its specificity and lack of confusion with other conditions, mental retardation is still the term most widely used and recommended for use in professional medical settings, such as formal scientific research and health insurance paperwork.[4]


STILL CAN'T FIND A BETTER WORD??????????????????? Do you think this word that describes a horrible disorder Is a good word to describe a businees practice?
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post #551 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 01:29 PM
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Personally I'm here to discuss about home theater and not the subtility of the English language, if you get so easily offended maybe Internet is not a place for you, I'm not making the slang I'm just using it, English isn't my first language, hell its not even my second language...
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post #552 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cR4p View Post

have you even read what I wrote and what you pasted, I mean you're highlighting it yourself...
That I quoted what you wrote is a pretty good indication that I also read it. I'm not saying you should not be upset about having to ship the Darblet back for a firmware update. I do feel that your anger is misplaced though. It is you who bought a product before reviewing the available information. Your claim of the update info being omitted is just as wrong as the slang you have used in your previous post.
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post #553 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 02:03 PM
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Actually I'm not angry at all and I bought it knowing I would have to ship it back, it's still pretty [insert inoffensive word here] that user have to do so knowing the current production firmware is far from bug free.
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post #554 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 02:12 PM
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Get back on topic guys...

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post #555 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 02:24 PM
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I used to use the word "retarded" when commenting about how idiotic something was. It was totally acceptable to others I was around, and I felt no pressure to change what I said. It wasn't until my wife started working years ago in a special needs program at the local elementary that I started to really think about my usage of the word "retarded". Never did I mean to offend someone with an "impaired cognitive functioning and deficits in two or more adaptive behaviors." It was meant as pure slang to represent how un-logical, idiotic, ridiculous, etc that something was.

However, I WAS offending others. I was offending my wife for sure, and I realized that I ruffled other people's feathers too, even though I didn't mean to.

I don't use any form of the word ****** (looks like I can't use that word here as it gets blocked, but it was basically re-tard) any more, unless talking about music with my kids where the word means to slow down and has probably been used musically longer than it was used to represent cognitive functioning. Even then, it is VERY rare.

Heck, I think that I've used the word here more in this one post than in all other conversations of any kind in the past 7 years that my wife was in her current job.


So let's all relax a little bit, loosen our gritting teeth, and understand that it was meant (right or wrong) as a slag comment and not to insult a human being, but also that maybe a better choice of word should be used at least moving forward. Then we can get back to discussing the Darbee and the ridiculous issue of having to ship it in for a firmware update.
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post #556 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bairda View Post

Just to make sure I understand...I have a Iscan Duo outputting to a JVC RS40 with a darblett in chain between the two.
Should I be outputting RGB instead of 4:4:4 ? Is this for both the sources or just the Iscan Duo?
Thanks,
-Alex-

Only use RGB from Duo > Darblet > Projector.

Apparently the Darblet does convert color space so use what you want but I can see a change when feeding it 4:4:4 and it outputs RGB. RGB in and out of the Darblet seems to look like its not even in the circuit...except when Darbee is above 0%. LOL
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post #557 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 06:53 PM
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I was about to buy one to try it out, but its 2012, and I'd have to send it back for a firmware upgrade, and for a fee? I don't get it...
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post #558 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 08:32 PM
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DarbeeDr,

I'm curious what the primary impediment to being able to perform field reflash (firmware updates) on the Darblet is? I can see why it would be much easier simply to update them in-house, by attaching to some JTAG header pins with a programmer. I expect that the folks at DarbeeVision anticipated that things were a bit more solid than they are turning out, wrt interfacing handshakes, etc., and that upgrades in the future would mostly be tweaks to the image-processing algorithm or parameter set. Rather than bug fixes. But when a(n) (almost inevitable) need to do so materializes relatively soon after a product introduction, the natives are going to get restless.

Does the device lack any form of USB, TTL, serial, or other communications channel by which it could be connected to a user's PC and reprogrammed in the field? (Obviously, there's no external port for such.) Or is it just that the current control-processor software lacks a bootloader programmed to perform it's own lobotomies? smile.gif

- Tim
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post #559 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post

DarbeeDr,
I'm curious what the primary impediment to being able to perform field reflash (firmware updates) on the Darblet is? I can see why it would be much easier simply to update them in-house, by attaching to some JTAG header pins with a programmer. I expect that the folks at DarbeeVision anticipated that things were a bit more solid than they are turning out, wrt interfacing handshakes, etc., and that upgrades in the future would mostly be tweaks to the image-processing algorithm or parameter set. Rather than bug fixes. But when a(n) (almost inevitable) need to do so materializes relatively soon after a product introduction, the natives are going to get restless.
Does the device lack any form of USB, TTL, serial, or other communications channel by which it could be connected to a user's PC and reprogrammed in the field? (Obviously, there's no external port for such.) Or is it just that the current control-processor software lacks a bootloader programmed to perform it's own lobotomies? smile.gif

LOL...A funny way to describe the re-programming.

Nevertheless, the current Darblet hardware and software designs make field re-programming highly impractical, both to implement, conduct and support.

We appreciate the feedback and I can say that it will likely be the last HT product in our lab that is designed as such.

-DD
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post #560 of 8317 Old 06-13-2012, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post


LOL...A funny way to describe the re-programming.
Nevertheless, the current Darblet hardware and software designs make field re-programming highly impractical, both to implement, conduct and support.
We appreciate the feedback and I can say that it will likely be the last HT product in our lab that is designed as such.
-DD


Re your comment in an above post about bringing our Darblets to CEDIA.   Will you actually be able to do upgrades on the spot?

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post #561 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 12:35 AM
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Re your comment in an above post about bringing our Darblets to CEDIA.   Will you actually be able to do upgrades on the spot?

Yes.

-DD
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post #562 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 12:52 AM
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Anyone here using the Darblet with a JVC X70 or 90, in conjuction with a Lumagen?
What are your thoughts and what way do you have it connected?

What are the results like when using an anamorphic lens as well?

Really does sound like the Darblet gives the image that extra pop we are always looking for!
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post #563 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Anyone here using the Darblet with a JVC X70 or 90, in conjuction with a Lumagen?
What are your thoughts and what way do you have it connected?
What are the results like when using an anamorphic lens as well?
Really does sound like the Darblet gives the image that extra pop we are always looking for!

I have an X70 (RS55) and a Radiance-XD. I connected the Darblet between the Lumagen and PJ.
I don't have a-lens, as I am using zoom method.
The combo works well, and I have not got any HDMI issue. The only "issue" is what had been mentioned before on RGB vs 422 output. I use to have RS55 configure to receive 422 and Rad-XD output 422 and it works fine. With Darblet in between, I have to change PJ to RGB or Auto. With the recommendation by Ronomy, I now change RAD-XD output to RGB-Video. I think the color do look a bit more vibrant and contrast seems to be better too.
Zombie10k also comment on this before, but a JVC-RS55 (eshift) + Darblet really makes a good combo. With my setup (130" screen and sitting about 1.2-1.3SW away), I can clearly see the advantage of the darblet. As most people do, it is much easier to just press the "ON/OFF" darblet to see the effect. It is really like lifting off a soft-lens, making it "look sharper". I like the effect, and I think so does others in this forum. The % that you can tune is another good thing as different people have diferent taste and different sitting position, so one might be able to tolerate more than others, and some materials area also more tolerant (like Avatar).
in summary, I think this is a good product. We hope that there will be a better one out there, but I think high on the list of changes are:
1) Field FW upgradeable. I think this is a no-brainer as there are practically no one out there that does not have this. Most had internet upgrade check too, but i think most of us are perfectly happy to do USB download.
2) no color space change. I think this seems to be already in the work and we might have a FW update later... I am contemplating if I want to send this in for an FW update (and also a processing fees?? I hope not as this is a BUG, not a feature change/add), as my picture seems fine working with RGB.
3) At least to me, change the HDMI port to co-located at the back.
4) Dual output for people that have multiple display output.. I know I can buy two, but from a spacing/power-outlet perspective, it is better to have 1 device.
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post #564 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I have an X70 (RS55) and a Radiance-XD. I connected the Darblet between the Lumagen and PJ.
I don't have a-lens, as I am using zoom method.
The combo works well, and I have not got any HDMI issue. The only "issue" is what had been mentioned before on RGB vs 422 output. I use to have RS55 configure to receive 422 and Rad-XD output 422 and it works fine. With Darblet in between, I have to change PJ to RGB or Auto. With the recommendation by Ronomy, I now change RAD-XD output to RGB-Video. I think the color do look a bit more vibrant and contrast seems to be better too.
Zombie10k also comment on this before, but a JVC-RS55 (eshift) + Darblet really makes a good combo. With my setup (130" screen and sitting about 1.2-1.3SW away), I can clearly see the advantage of the darblet. As most people do, it is much easier to just press the "ON/OFF" darblet to see the effect. It is really like lifting off a soft-lens, making it "look sharper". I like the effect, and I think so does others in this forum. The % that you can tune is another good thing as different people have diferent taste and different sitting position, so one might be able to tolerate more than others, and some materials area also more tolerant (like Avatar).
in summary, I think this is a good product. We hope that there will be a better one out there, but I think high on the list of changes are:
1) Field FW upgradeable. I think this is a no-brainer as there are practically no one out there that does not have this. Most had internet upgrade check too, but i think most of us are perfectly happy to do USB download.
2) no color space change. I think this seems to be already in the work and we might have a FW update later... I am contemplating if I want to send this in for an FW update (and also a processing fees?? I hope not as this is a BUG, not a feature change/add), as my picture seems fine working with RGB.
3) At least to me, change the HDMI port to co-located at the back.
4) Dual output for people that have multiple display output.. I know I can buy two, but from a spacing/power-outlet perspective, it is better to have 1 device.

We are glad that you have found the best means for you to enjoy the benefits our technology and product.

Thank you for all of the feedback, you are absolutely right on.

We will not conduct bug fixes on a 'for profit' basis, as that would be shameful. We will ask you to please be patient.

We are in this for the long haul and we will do everything we can to make everyone satisfied with their experience.

-DD
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post #565 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 05:58 AM
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So if I go against my better judgement and acquire one from avs, which apparently has them in stock, does their inventory contain the most up to date firmware, or would I be gettIng one that needs to be sent back?

If there are firmware updates for bugs or fixes, what are you charging for the return cycle?

Thanks
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post #566 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

So if I go against my better judgement and acquire one from avs, which apparently has them in stock, does their inventory contain the most up to day firmware, or would I be gettIng one that needs to be sent back
If there are firmware updates for bugs or fixes, what are you charging for the return cycle?
Thanks

That's a pretty good question, I would rather have mine doing

avs-->darblet-->Europe

than

Avs-->Europe-->USA (darblet)-->Europe biggrin.gif

Would also be good to know what bugs are open and the impact on the user, if it's minimal I might live with it until a major update is released
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post #567 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

It is hard to provide a delivery date, however creating that switch function is at the top of the priority list.
We will be at CEDIA Indianapolis and I will suggest that one way to get the fix and any upgrades (that become available) is to bring your Darblet to our booth. (#712)
-DD

I think it would be great to visit booth 712 anyway. smile.gif

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post #568 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Only use RGB from Duo > Darblet > Projector.
Apparently the Darblet does convert color space so use what you want but I can see a change when feeding it 4:4:4 and it outputs RGB. RGB in and out of the Darblet seems to look like its not even in the circuit...except when Darbee is above 0%. LOL

That is what I need to know. Thanks for the help!
-Alex-
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post #569 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 08:54 AM
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I live in SoCal. Just got the Darblet. Wondering if I can just drive down to Darbee office & get my unit upgraded with latest firmware if need be.

Vinod
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post #570 of 8317 Old 06-14-2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I think it would be great to visit booth 712 anyway. smile.gif

We look forward to seeing all your molecules there, not just your pixels.

-DD
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