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post #7651 of 8072 Old 02-06-2014, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

That could be a bandwidth problem over the longer HDMI cable. The menu might be 1080@60 while the main feature would be 1080@24. Or do you have the player's output set to something other than 1080p and 1080p24 turned on?

-Bill

Thanks for the feedback Bill. Yes, it's possible that the menu is 1080@60. The Oppo is set at 1080p24, and the pj (1080-compatible) at 720p24. Thankfully, the problem is non-existent during the main feature smile.gif

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post #7652 of 8072 Old 02-06-2014, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Wellywell View Post

I can only tell you what i see. My system was professionally calibrated to the point im getting volumetric lighting when in 3D mode and ghe darbee has only made it better . I will try and post a pic of a 2D image to see what you think

Ultimately, you like what you like, and if you're happy with the picture quality that your equipment is giving you, you should enjoy it and not worry about what anyone else says.

However, if you're interested in the technical reason why you saw different picture quality results between the OPPO 103 and the OPPO 103D, that's because the Marvell chip in the 103 applies Digital Noise Reduction to all video sources. This cannot be turned off, not even by setting the optional Noise Reduction control to zero. Some degree of DNR is there all the time when using HDMI output 1. The official company line from Marvell is that this is a deliberate "feature" in the chip and not a "flaw."

The VRS chip in the 103D does not have this problem, and presents the picture exactly as it's encoded on the disc.

As a result, movies with film grain in the photography will look less grainy in the 103. Unfortunately, in addition to removing grain, the DNR also removes a layer of fine detail. The DNR is farily mild when watching Blu-ray discs and may not be objectionable. It's much stronger when upconverting DVDs.

HDMI output 2 on the OPPO 103 bypasses the Marvell chip. The picture quality you get from HDMI output 2 on that player should match the picture quality from either output on the 103D.

Most users in this forum prefer the unfiltered picture from the OPPO 103D. You may feel differently if you have an aversion to film grain, in which case the DNR'ed picture may look more pleasing to you.

As it pertains to the Darbee Darblet, filtering the image with DNR first gives the Darblet less data to work with and less detail to enhance. It is typically recommended to give the Darblet the highest-quality unfiltered picture possible to get the best results from the unit. You'll still get some enhancement from the Darblet even with a DNR'ed picture, but it's not working to its fullest potential.

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post #7653 of 8072 Old 02-06-2014, 12:10 PM
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Maybe tonight when i go home ill try hdmi 2 from the 103 to bypass the marvel chip . I just felt after having both the 103 vs the 103D i felt at least in my setup the 103 was superior in picture quality vs the 103D. So basically what you're saying is if i use hdmi 2 to bypass the marvel chip then and only then i will be fully utilizing what the Darblet can do??? Ill try it tonight...
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post #7654 of 8072 Old 02-07-2014, 09:40 AM
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Josh Z, i switched the output to hdmi 2 on my 103 to bypass the marvel. I stand corrected, holy **** to the quality im getting now...wow, wow, wow..lens flare in 2d volumetric lighting to the extreme in 3D again i cant thank you enough for the suggestion. I was a big believer in the Marvel but by bypassing that processor my 103's pq is truly nothing short of jaw dropping. Also the PS4 which already looks great looked outstanding when connected via the darbee at 35%. Thanks again man for a guy like me being into this stuff its a new day!!! So glad its Friday so i can go play some more. The Darbee Darblet is truly an awesome product and i highly suggest it!!!!!!
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post #7655 of 8072 Old 02-07-2014, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Ultimately, you like what you like, and if you're happy with the picture quality that your equipment is giving you, you should enjoy it and not worry about what anyone else says.

However, if you're interested in the technical reason why you saw different picture quality results between the OPPO 103 and the OPPO 103D, that's because the Marvell chip in the 103 applies Digital Noise Reduction to all video sources. This cannot be turned off, not even by setting the optional Noise Reduction control to zero. Some degree of DNR is there all the time when using HDMI output 1. The official company line from Marvell is that this is a deliberate "feature" in the chip and not a "flaw."

The VRS chip in the 103D does not have this problem, and presents the picture exactly as it's encoded on the disc.

As a result, movies with film grain in the photography will look less grainy in the 103. Unfortunately, in addition to removing grain, the DNR also removes a layer of fine detail. The DNR is farily mild when watching Blu-ray discs and may not be objectionable. It's much stronger when upconverting DVDs.

HDMI output 2 on the OPPO 103 bypasses the Marvell chip. The picture quality you get from HDMI output 2 on that player should match the picture quality from either output on the 103D.

Most users in this forum prefer the unfiltered picture from the OPPO 103D. You may feel differently if you have an aversion to film grain, in which case the DNR'ed picture may look more pleasing to you.

As it pertains to the Darbee Darblet, filtering the image with DNR first gives the Darblet less data to work with and less detail to enhance. It is typically recommended to give the Darblet the highest-quality unfiltered picture possible to get the best results from the unit. You'll still get some enhancement from the Darblet even with a DNR'ed picture, but it's not working to its fullest potential.

Josh Z,
So would this issue be with all devices that have the Marvell Qdeo chip? For example, using an Onkyo TX-NR818, which has the Marvell Qdeo, to process video from a PS3 and cable box.
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post #7656 of 8072 Old 02-07-2014, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb4 View Post

Josh Z,
So would this issue be with all devices that have the Marvell Qdeo chip? For example, using an Onkyo TX-NR818, which has the Marvell Qdeo, to process video from a PS3 and cable box.

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to that. I'm not sure if this is a problem with all Qdeo chips or just the one used in the OPPO 103. For example, I used to own an LG Blu-ray player with Qdeo, and I don't recall it having a DNR problem. I first read about this issue in the OPPO 103 thread in the Blu-ray Players forum on this site.

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post #7657 of 8072 Old 02-09-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

You seemed to be on the right track when you said in your previous post that you had adjusted the Darblet processing to 40 and stopped.  So at a setting of 40, you saw no beneficial enhancement of picture details?  And to be clear, Darblet processing can be somewhat unflattering because enhanced details allow you to see skin wrinkles, aging, and other imperfections in the human face.  But these are not necessarily "artifacts", i.e. displaying something that isn't there.  When HD displays first came out, a common comment was that we could now see all the details, warts and all.  Darbee processing is further enhancing the clarity of the image.  I have a 4K display.  If you don't like to see unpleasant, yet realistic, details in the picture, don't upgrade to 4K!

Ah, yes indeed! The Darblet effect of "unflattering enhanced details."

I have a dual setup - projector and LCD/LED and the Darblet does wonders for both. Setting at 50% - and the clarity and colors are amazing.

You will see details that you did not see before - - like the five o'clock shadow on an actress on one of the shows I watched right after setting up my Darblet.

I remember a friend of mine watching the 5:00 PM news after I just had installed the Darblet and there was this one news anchor that he "was in love" with. After he saw her with the Darblet, warts, pits and all - - he wasn't in love anymore.

I'm sure you can dial down the Darblet if you do not like this level of detail.

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post #7658 of 8072 Old 02-09-2014, 10:22 AM
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You will see details that you did not see before - - like the five o'clock shadow on an actress.

How homely was she?... biggrin.gif

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post #7659 of 8072 Old 02-09-2014, 11:18 AM
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How homely was she?... biggrin.gif

When she was born,the doctor slapped her mother !
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post #7660 of 8072 Old 02-09-2014, 02:01 PM
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When she was born,the doctor slapped her mother !

...okay Rodney! tongue.gif

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post #7661 of 8072 Old 02-09-2014, 10:49 PM
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I've been using the Darbee for over a year with no problems. Suddenly the Darbee is dramatically raising the black level of my image; as if the display brightness control is set much too high. This occurs in all Darbee modes, any setting, and wether the Darbee is on or off. I have reset all settings, as well as unplugged the unit and tried it again. No good. As soon as I remove the Darbee from the chain, everything is fine.

This occurred spontaneously after a year with NO changes to my system - neither components, cables, nor locations of components.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

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post #7662 of 8072 Old 02-09-2014, 11:30 PM
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More bizarre behavior: In troubleshooting my Darbee brightness boosting problem, I moved the Darbee to another display where it works fine. When I returned it to the original display, the problem returns. However - when I returned the Darbee to the original display I had to start the disc over again, and I noticed there is no problem with any of the disc previews - only the feature film. The disc is the Blu-ray Captain Phillips.

I have checked all the settings of all five components involved (Darbee, two blu-ray players, and two displays) They are all correct and have not been changed. I have swapped all the HDMI cables involved. All the video is showing as outputted and received at 1080p/24.

In system B, (with or without the Darbee) all of the video content on this blu-ray is displayed correctly. In system A, (with the Darbee) all of he previews are displayed correctly, but the feature film is displayed with dramatically boosted black levels. In system A (with the Darbee removed) all of the video on this disc is displayed correctly.

And again, the Darbee has functioned flawlessly in system A for one year.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

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post #7663 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 04:26 AM
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Does it actually raise the display brightness setting?I think Im seeing something like this on my calibrated display that is locked at cal-night so the brightness cant be changed but the picture has been looking a little light and washed out in dark scenes but it could just be the disc.Ive also owned my Darbee since they first went on sale way over a year ago.

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post #7664 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 07:31 AM
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OK... So I stand corrected. I turned off the Video Conversion from my SC-65(Marvell) and increased the HD mode to 60%.... Wow! Now I see a POSITIVE difference with my picture. I am really happy that I stayed with this and kept reading this forum. I can personally confirm that the Darbee does not play well with Marvell Qdeo Processing. I really learn alot from you all on here. I really appreciate it.

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post #7665 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 07:41 AM
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Has anyone used the Darbee with an Onkyo TX-NR818? It has both an HQV Vida and a Marvell Qdeo processor but uses the HQV Vida for upscaling to 1080p and then the Marvell Qdeo for 1080p to 4k.
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post #7666 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Does it actually raise the display brightness setting?I think Im seeing something like this on my calibrated display that is locked at cal-night so the brightness cant be changed but the picture has been looking a little light and washed out in dark scenes but it could just be the disc.Ive also owned my Darbee since they first went on sale way over a year ago.

No the display setting does not change. But the black level of the image is undoubtedly much too high.

Thanks for asking.

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post #7667 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 08:29 AM
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That sucks!

I have a Darbee on the way. My new Samsung PN64F8500 has the best black levels I've ever seen. If the Darbee messes them up, that's a deal-breaker for me. I'm hoping this is an isolated issue.

Let us know if you are able to get it sorted out.

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post #7668 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Does it actually raise the display brightness setting?I think Im seeing something like this on my calibrated display that is locked at cal-night so the brightness cant be changed but the picture has been looking a little light and washed out in dark scenes but it could just be the disc.Ive also owned my Darbee since they first went on sale way over a year ago.
I just watched a dvd from oppo83 and it looked fine so it must have been a poor quality transfer

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post #7669 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 11:56 AM
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Pip,

Just a thought here. You said that you've had the same equipment since you got the Darbee. Is it possible that one of the devices in your signal chain had a firmware update recently?

I just got a new Samsung PN64F8500, so I've been reading a couple threads for that TV, and in one of them it was noted that a particular firmware update changed the display characteristics enough to require several users to re-calibrate their sets.

I was just reading your post and it occurred to me that perhaps something like this could be the reason for the sudden change in performance.

In this age of firmware updates and upgrades, our gear doesn't stay exactly the same anymore.

I hope you get it sorted out.

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post #7670 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

How homely was she?... biggrin.gif

Definite "three bagger" - - could be four depending on the strength of the material.

Really - - I toggled the "Darblet" on and off and it was amazing to see her stubble appear and disappear. And the picture does not look harsh or have too much contrast. With close ups and especially for movies - - if you have bad makeup artists, it really shows in the picture. Same with local TV broadcasts.

You can always set the Darblet to your own preference. I have a hard time understanding why folks do not see an improvement with their Darblet. I can only think that the source material is at issue or it is a defective unit. I had a defective Darblet that I returned and ended up getting a new one to try with my projector. The results were so outstanding that I included my LCD/LED into the chain - - and hence, my five o'clock shadow beauty...smile.gif

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post #7671 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacman9270 View Post

OK... So I stand corrected. I turned off the Video Conversion from my SC-65(Marvell) and increased the HD mode to 60%.... Wow! Now I see a POSITIVE difference with my picture. I am really happy that I stayed with this and kept reading this forum. I can personally confirm that the Darbee does not play well with Marvell Qdeo Processing. I really learn alot from you all on here. I really appreciate it.

Glad it worked out for you. I have the same Pioneer SC-65 with the Darblet and I haven't found any problems with the picture. You really can't tell much difference on my displays with QDEO on or off.

So I suspect it has more to do with your display being sensitive to the combination of QDEO and the Darblet.

After you watch a couple of movies and sports with the Darblet - - you will not want to go back! The colors are very vivid - they pop and image is pristine. Enjoy!!!
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ALL Paradigm - 7.1 - Studio 60's, V.2 (FL/FR)
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post #7672 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 12:37 PM
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Has anyone had any problems using hdmi cables less than 6 ft? Darbees website faq says it is claimed that hdmi cables less than 6 ft may not provide consistent sync. I am going to get either Blue Rigger or Amazon Basics.
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post #7673 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 01:01 PM
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I've used 3foot cables with no issue before. But they ended up being too short for the placement of my Darblets so I changed them out for six foot cables.

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post #7674 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 01:35 PM
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I got my Darbee today after I talked about the plus and minuses with my calibrator. I am pleasantly surprised at how well it works. My setup is and Oppo 93 set to Source Direct, connected to my Darbee, and then to my Samsung 64F8500. Choose HiDef at 55 and it really did make the picture pop out more without any artifacts to the picture. Did the demo at 55 on a paused image and I could really tell the difference. Used a 3 foot cable from Oppo to Darbee and 6 foot Redmere cable to tv. No problems.

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post #7675 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

Pip,

Just a thought here. You said that you've had the same equipment since you got the Darbee. Is it possible that one of the devices in your signal chain had a firmware update recently?

I just got a new Samsung PN64F8500, so I've been reading a couple threads for that TV, and in one of them it was noted that a particular firmware update changed the display characteristics enough to require several users to re-calibrate their sets.

I was just reading your post and it occurred to me that perhaps something like this could be the reason for the sudden change in performance.

In this age of firmware updates and upgrades, our gear doesn't stay exactly the same anymore.

I hope you get it sorted out.

Thanks for the idea. I had checked that. No new firmwares.

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post #7676 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 04:40 PM
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Thanks for the idea. I had checked that. No new firmwares.

Pip

Have you tried a different HDMI port on your tv? Does it do it with BO on and off?

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post #7677 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 04:42 PM
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I have tried different HDMI ports - same results. What is BO?

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post #7678 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
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I have tried different HDMI ports - same results. What is BO?

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I'm sorry. I thought you had the Samsung F8500. BO is Black Optimizer.

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post #7679 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 06:27 PM
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Where is everyone mounting their Darblet since it is IR and needs to be line of sight?
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post #7680 of 8072 Old 02-10-2014, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb4 View Post

Where is everyone mounting their Darblet since it is IR and needs to be line of sight?

I am keeping my Darblet out of sight. The Darblet has an IR input jack but does not come with an IR extender. My Samsung F8500 came with a nice IR extender that I don't need to use with it. Connected the Samsung IR extender to the Darblet and passed the IR extender under the panel and slid it all the way to the right side of the set. It is gently wedged between the bottom of the panel and the top edge of the set's curved base. Only the head of the IR extender is visible from the front of the set.

IR extenders are cheap and almost any of them should work with the Darblet.
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