Darbee vision darblet - Page 265 - AVS Forum
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post #7921 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

I have my darbee for oppo 983,Roku and Oppo 970 to my Samsung 8500 LED.What happens to my Darbee if I buy a 4K television?My Yamaha will pass 4K but what will the Darbee do?
The Darbee won't process or pass 4K. I've tried -- it doesn't work.
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post #7922 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 09:21 AM
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I would think that the darbee oppos with the newest firmware must be able to utilize the darbee enhancements

on 4K tvs.
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post #7923 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 10:38 AM
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Now thats a thought but you would loose any other input sources to the screen.Hopefully a new Darbee 4K is being prepared for release soon.Never want to give up what my Darbee has done for my picture.If it means no 4K then so be it.

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post #7924 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Now thats a thought but you would loose any other input sources to the screen.
...

This is a common mis-conception. The Oppo with Darbee is equipped with ports that allow it to have all signals pass through it, not just BD/DVD.
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post #7925 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 01:39 PM
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So is oppo coming out with an enhanced 4K player with a Darbee or do the present machines do the job?

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post #7926 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

So is oppo coming out with an enhanced 4K player with a Darbee or do the present machines do the job?

The current oppo can pass 4k through it, but it will not be able to stream 4k as it does not have the HEVC decoder. I'm sure if there is a 4k disc format a new oppo would come out.
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post #7927 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ingersol1211 View Post

I would think that the darbee oppos with the newest firmware must be able to utilize the darbee enhancements

on 4K tvs.
The Darbee chip that's built into the Oppo player will process a BD or DVD (or whatever other source) video stream before the player upconverts that stream to 4K. It will do this for any signal resolution up to 1080p60. However, if you feed the Oppo a 4K signal, it won't be able to apply Darbee processing to it.
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post #7928 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

The Darbee chip that's built into the Oppo player will process a BD or DVD (or whatever other source) video stream before the player upconverts that stream to 4K. It will do this for any signal resolution up to 1080p60. However, if you feed the Oppo a 4K signal, it won't be able to apply Darbee processing to it.

Exactly. You could feed your cable to the oppo, apply darbee, and then feed to the 4k tv for upscaling. You could do that for anything...Apple TV, the built in blu ray, etc
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post #7929 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 02:49 PM
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Will there be a 4K Darbee?

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post #7930 of 8368 Old 05-18-2014, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Will there be a 4K Darbee?

Tea leaves, Grasshopper. But I'd think there'd have to be at some time.
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post #7931 of 8368 Old 05-19-2014, 09:38 AM
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Without taking the time to read through all these many, many pages..(I have eye problems right now for one...).does anyone mind me jumping in asking if paying the extra $100 for a "D" model oppo..will there be discernible improvement on a 50" plasma display? I have read that unless you're at 55" or greater display size it doesn't show. Any friendly advice? Thanks!
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post #7932 of 8368 Old 05-19-2014, 10:16 AM
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Depends on your viewing distance. I have a 50", 55", 80" and 103" (projection). All benefits from Darbee in varying degrees. Even the 50" which i watch from 12ft away. For that one, however, I boost the Darbee to 65%. For everything else I use 45%

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post #7933 of 8368 Old 05-19-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rob755 View Post

Without taking the time to read through all these many, many pages..(I have eye problems right now for one...).does anyone mind me jumping in asking if paying the extra $100 for a "D" model oppo..will there be discernible improvement on a 50" plasma display? I have read that unless you're at 55" or greater display size it doesn't show. Any friendly advice? Thanks!

I think the darbee feature is worth the extra $100. It just makes everything look so sharp. I had a standalone darblet and it constantly gave me handshake issues, so I upgraded my 103 to the 103D, no issues and a fantastic picture. Look at it like this, the darblet is a $300 stand alone device, by getting the 103D over the 103 you are saving $200.
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post #7934 of 8368 Old 05-19-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob755 View Post

Without taking the time to read through all these many, many pages..(I have eye problems right now for one...).does anyone mind me jumping in asking if paying the extra $100 for a "D" model oppo..will there be discernible improvement on a 50" plasma display? I have read that unless you're at 55" or greater display size it doesn't show. Any friendly advice? Thanks!

First you say that you have eye problems, and then ask if you'll be able to see the difference. Well, that depends on how your vision is. That's not something we can answer for you.

The Darbee effect is designed to be a subtle improvement. If you're expecting a huge jump in quality akin to the difference between standard-def and high-def, it's not that.
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post #7935 of 8368 Old 05-20-2014, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Depends on your viewing distance. I have a 50", 55", 80" and 103" (projection). All benefits from Darbee in varying degrees. Even the 50" which i watch from 12ft away. For that one, however, I boost the Darbee to 65%. For everything else I use 45%

Agree - - my 65" Samsung looks great with the Darbee at 12 feet viewing distance. 50%.

It's an absolute "no brainer" for my BenQ W1080ST - 100" Diagonal Projection Screen - also at 50%.

Most noticeable differences between the two screens? (LED/LCD & Projection)

LED/LCD - Fabulous colors - - luminance, very sharp, crisp picture. Great detail. For a minute, the way it glows, I thought it was radioactive....smile.gif

Projection Screen via the BenQ W1080ST - like putting glasses on. Much more detail and a sharper picture. Great colors, as well.

As always - - it's in the eye of the beholder as to the Darbee effects/benefits. For projectors - - I think most folks will agree on the benefits. For smaller TV's - - it can be more subjective.

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post #7936 of 8368 Old 05-25-2014, 11:50 PM
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Do we know as a 100% certainty that when applying DNR it's best to do it after the darbee's location in your chain and not before?

I normally hate DNR with a passion, but there are times I like to apply it on a low setting with Netflix and other lower quality sources. I have a DNR setting on my receiver, and on my TV. I would only use one anyway.

Somebody said on this thread much earlier in response to a question about the oppo that inducing DNR before the darbee gives it less information to work with...
But is it possible that the darbee can be used to restore the amount of detail lost during the DNR process? If I enable it on my receiver set to low, which then goes to darbee, could I get the "best of both worlds"?

My thought process is that said lost detail is still imbedded in the information of the image which the darbee processes, the DNR just applying a little veil over it which maybe the darbee can conquer. Whereas if I use my display to apply it instead, I'm absolutely guaranteed that data loss. After all, dabee adds detail you cannot see without it, therefore it "excracts" it from the information it receives. So it seems to follow that it could extract whatever the DNR is taking away as well.

Im not sure which would take away more detail were the darbee not involved at all, the setting on my receiver or the one on my tv.

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post #7937 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Somebody said on this thread much earlier in response to a question about the oppo that inducing DNR before the darbee gives it less information to work with...
But is it possible that the darbee can be used to restore the amount of detail lost during the DNR process? If I enable it on my receiver set to low, which then goes to darbee, could I get the "best of both worlds"?

My thought process is that said lost detail is still imbedded in the information of the image which the darbee processes, the DNR just applying a little veil over it which maybe the darbee can conquer. Whereas if I use my display to apply it instead, I'm absolutely guaranteed that data loss. After all, dabee adds detail you cannot see without it, therefore it "excracts" it from the information it receives. So it seems to follow that it could extract whatever the DNR is taking away as well.

Im not sure which would take away more detail were the darbee not involved at all, the setting on my receiver or the one on my tv.

The Darbee does not add detail. It enhances the visibility of detail already present in the signal it receives. If you DNR that detail out before feeding the signal to the Darbee, that detail is simply gone and the Darbee has less information to work with.

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post #7938 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The Darbee does not add detail. It enhances the visibility of detail already present in the signal it receives. If you DNR that detail out before feeding the signal to the Darbee, that detail is simply gone and the Darbee has less information to work with.

Thats exactly what my post says, that it enhances detail already in the image. If dnr subdued some detail, wouldn't it still be present in the information of the image?

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post #7939 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 11:59 AM
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Thats exactly what my post says, that it enhances detail already in the image. If dnr subdued some detail, wouldn't it still be present in the information of the image?

DNR does not "subdue" detail. It removes detail. That detail isn't still hiding behind-the-scenes in the image waiting for someone to pluck it out again. It's just gone.

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post #7940 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 01:01 PM
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Help y'all. My younger brother passed away a few months ago and I inherited most of his HT gear. I discovered a sealed box under his bed; in it was a Darblet that he purchased over a year ago. So, I hooked it up according to the instructions. Equipment: Panasonic BDT220, Viewsonic PJD7820hd projector, 106" Da-Lite screen. I bypassed my Onkyo 805 receiver in order to take advantage of 3D Blu-rays (using optical out for standard DD/DTS - old-school). When the Darblet is functioning correctly it looks amazing. We are especially impressed since the Viewsonic is such an inexpensive unit. I also have an Epson projector that I use for 2D programming (the rainbows on the Viewsonic on 2D content is distracting). The Darblet works without any issues on the Epson going through the Onkyo.

The Darblet intermittently flashes and does some weird stuff on some 3d Blu-ray movies. For example, we watched "The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug" last night. At first the Darblet went nuts but after we re-started everything the first disc functioned perfectly. We put in disc 2 and the image doubled. It was like having two 55" tvs stacked above each other. I tried all sorts of trouble-shooting: putting the Darblet close to projector, close to Blu-ray player, restarting everything, etc. Still the problem continued. Any thoughts?
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post #7941 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 01:05 PM
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Crappy cell phone pic (not sure why it is rotated 90 degrees?):

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post #7942 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 01:07 PM
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DNR does not "subdue" detail. It removes detail. That detail isn't still hiding behind-the-scenes in the image waiting for someone to pluck it out again. It's just gone.

Fair enough. So then what exactly is the difference between if I apply it after or before the darbee, if I'm going to lose it either way? Also, any ideas on which would leave me more bereft, a receiver or display with dnr enabled?

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post #7943 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 01:50 PM
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Probably the biggest difference in applying noise reduction before or after the Darblet is going to be which device applies the noise reduction and how good a job it does. That will depend on the processor used to apply the noise reduction and that means that there is probably not going to be a definitive answer that says apply it before or apply it after. If you have very good quality noise reduction that produces little in the way of artefacts in your source, and crappy aggressive noise reduction in your display, then it will probably be better to apply it in the source. If the quality of the noise reduction in source and display is the opposite of that, then it would probably be best to apply it after. The only thing you can use to determine the quality of the noise reduction is how it looks on your display, and that's also what you use to judge how much Darbee processing to apply. You're going to have to try it both ways and find out for yourself which you prefer because what someone with different source and display components to you says will have no relevance to what you can expect from your components.
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post #7944 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 02:30 PM
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Everything that David just said ^. Plus there's the matter of personal preference. How much noise reduction looks good to you on any given source may not look good to me.

The only way to get an answer to this question is to try it both ways on video material you know to be problematic and see which you prefer.

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post #7945 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 02:43 PM
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Thanks for the helpful replies, guys.

It's extremely hard to tell which is better. I the source for Netflix, ps3/4 has no option. My receiver has 3 types, temporal, block and mosquito. They can all be set from low to high seperately. But mosquito for example, seems to help temporal noise the best while removing the most detail. Block kills the whole picture and temporal seems to do absolutely nothing besides add blur. On the display I have plain DNR and MPEG. MPEG ruins everything, I can't stand it. Plain DNR works but I can't really tell it apart from what's on my receiver. Seems to add both blur and detail loss albeit only a tiny bit. No doubt I can get rid of all the noise easily by enabling a bunch of junk but I'm trying to find a delicate balance while using as absolutely little as possible. It's hard to tell all the different types apart from one another, and each level of each. It seems mosquito noise reduction on the receiver overall helps the most while set to low, but it's before the darbee andI dont really think "mosquito" noise ever actually pops up.

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post #7946 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 04:29 PM
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When I find it hard to decide between 2 options what I usually do is run with one of them for a couple of days or weeks then swap to the other and run with it for a while. If I develop a persistent desire to go back to the first option over a few days then that's a good indication that I prefer the first while if I seem to settle in happily with the change then that tends to indicate that I prefer it. Sometimes I need to go back and forth like this a couple of times if things are really close. Eventually I settle on one.

I find it hard to choose if I do quick A/B type testing, swapping between one and the other when the choice is a difficult one for me. That's when I find I need to try living with one choice for a while, and then with the other. Sometimes it's a matter of finding the option which either just niggles away at you slightly over time, producing a minor nagging annoyance, or alternatively the one that just lets you settle down, forget about trying to make a choice, and sit back and enjoy things. Those kind of differences don't become apparent quickly. I tend to find it most difficult when there are things I like about each, but they're different things. Eventually you figure out what you're prepared to trade off and what you aren't and the choice becomes clear. Just give yourself time when the choice isn't obvious.
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post #7947 of 8368 Old 05-27-2014, 06:07 PM
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I like that advice. Sounds like a good method!

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post #7948 of 8368 Old 05-28-2014, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post

When I find it hard to decide between 2 options what I usually do is run with one of them for a couple of days or weeks then swap to the other and run with it for a while. If I develop a persistent desire to go back to the first option over a few days then that's a good indication that I prefer the first while if I seem to settle in happily with the change then that tends to indicate that I prefer it. Sometimes I need to go back and forth like this a couple of times if things are really close. Eventually I settle on one.

I find it hard to choose if I do quick A/B type testing, swapping between one and the other when the choice is a difficult one for me. That's when I find I need to try living with one choice for a while, and then with the other. Sometimes it's a matter of finding the option which either just niggles away at you slightly over time, producing a minor nagging annoyance, or alternatively the one that just lets you settle down, forget about trying to make a choice, and sit back and enjoy things. Those kind of differences don't become apparent quickly. I tend to find it most difficult when there are things I like about each, but they're different things. Eventually you figure out what you're prepared to trade off and what you aren't and the choice becomes clear. Just give yourself time when the choice isn't obvious.

Terrific advice, David. This is actually what I did when I first installed the Darblet. I was skeptical of the product and my constant A/B comparisons left me unsure whether I really liked it or not. Eventually, I decided to just leave it on for a couple weeks and settle in with it. After that, I was satisfied that it provides a genuine benefit that I wanted on all the time.

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post #7949 of 8368 Old 05-28-2014, 09:32 AM
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I bought a 4k TV recently (Sony 65X900A) and noticed that the Darbee effect is much more subtle than it was on the plasma. Cycling up and down in 5 percent increments doesn't produce the drastic changes that it used to. I wonder if this is the normal case? Not complaining at all because the 4k upscaling looks fantastic and I still see a nice improvement (although subtle) when cycling Darbee off and on.
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post #7950 of 8368 Old 05-28-2014, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post

When I find it hard to decide between 2 options what I usually do is run with one of them for a couple of days or weeks then swap to the other and run with it for a while. If I develop a persistent desire to go back to the first option over a few days then that's a good indication that I prefer the first while if I seem to settle in happily with the change then that tends to indicate that I prefer it. Sometimes I need to go back and forth like this a couple of times if things are really close. Eventually I settle on one.

I find it hard to choose if I do quick A/B type testing, swapping between one and the other when the choice is a difficult one for me. That's when I find I need to try living with one choice for a while, and then with the other. Sometimes it's a matter of finding the option which either just niggles away at you slightly over time, producing a minor nagging annoyance, or alternatively the one that just lets you settle down, forget about trying to make a choice, and sit back and enjoy things. Those kind of differences don't become apparent quickly. I tend to find it most difficult when there are things I like about each, but they're different things. Eventually you figure out what you're prepared to trade off and what you aren't and the choice becomes clear. Just give yourself time when the choice isn't obvious.

Definitely. Awesome post thank you

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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