Darbee vision darblet - Page 292 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8731 of 8760 Old 06-29-2015, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Sorry. That is just wrong. The Darbee will accept any resolution 108p 60 and below. It actually works best if applied to a lower resolution and I feed it native 480i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p 24, 30 and go. It is not a scalar and will not upscale anything. It won't pass higher resolutions. However after application to you accepted resolution, you can use a down stream scalar such as a 4K out Lumagen or the one in your 4K projector or panel. No problem and it improves things, the more the lower the native signal is.
So the only thing I said that was "wrong" was the omission of "up to 1080" which I thought was pretty obvious.

I guess I never asked if he was sending his SNES through the Darbee, but we all know he's inputting/outputting 1080.
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post #8732 of 8760 Old 06-29-2015, 08:57 PM
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No big deal. It is important to note that all the darbee does to a signal is to bring up detail otherwise hidden because of a lack of definition between small contrast transitions. Very valuable what it does and nice that it doesn't change anything else. What ever resolution, number of bits, yada yada, tht goes in, comes out.

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post #8733 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
No big deal. It is important to note that all the darbee does to a signal is to bring up detail otherwise hidden because of a lack of definition between small contrast transitions. Very valuable what it does and nice that it doesn't change anything else. What ever resolution, number of bits, yada yada, tht goes in, comes out.
Its all good.

I was certain I was going to return my Darbee. Lots of snake-oil in the entire 'adder device' market. At first I wasn't seeing much benefit but then I left it on and forgot about it. Now I think it looks pretty bad without it.
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post #8734 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 07:12 AM
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Here's a general question to all:

Now that you've owned the Darbee for quite a while, how much do you use it? As much as you figured you would? More? Less?

(I had the original Darblet but it caused havoc with my system. When I purchased the Lumagen VP with darbee processing, I happily got rid of the Darblet).


Me, I rarely use the Darbee processing. The reason is mostly because I found the Darbee to impose a distinct signature look upon the image, which makes me aware the image has been altered and processed. Thus the more I turn it up to make an appreciable difference in clarity/dimensionality, the more processed the image looks, the more I turn it down the less processed it looks, but the less effect, and worth, the Darbee seems to have. If I put it on it tends to be at around 15 or so. But, again, I rarely use it these days.

I'm curious if others have similar or very different experience.
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post #8735 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 07:21 AM
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I leave mine on all the time at 43% and don't notice that things look too processed or that they look unprocessed, it's the sweet spot for my current setup (I was debating between 45 and 40 when I set it up initially and slowly took a look at single digits to get a feel for the right spot - not unprocessed but not overly processed). I also like the clarity effect that it gives.

But I think that's why YMMV even exists as an acronym.

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post #8736 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 07:43 AM
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Any body using the Darbee Darblet 5000 with Sony VPL-HW40ES projector? How is the difference with and without it? What is the number being set up?
Tks.
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post #8737 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredxr2d2 View Post
I leave mine on all the time at 43% and don't notice that things look too processed or that they look unprocessed, it's the sweet spot for my current setup (I was debating between 45 and 40 when I set it up initially and slowly took a look at single digits to get a feel for the right spot - not unprocessed but not overly processed). I also like the clarity effect that it gives.

But I think that's why YMMV even exists as an acronym.
43% !!! Holy cow! Yup, YMMV certainly applies to these devices.

BTW, do you use it with a flat panel or projector? I use a projector and perhaps that makes the effect more visible.
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post #8738 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
43% !!! Holy cow! Yup, YMMV certainly applies to these devices.

BTW, do you use it with a flat panel or projector? I use a projector and perhaps that makes the effect more visible.
I use it with my W1070 1080P DLP projector on an 82" screen. I was watching HP4 at 45% and was thinking to myself that it just looked too processed, so I switched it to 40% and I left it like that for a few minutes, but really felt like it didn't look good. I switched it to Game mode and switched it back almost immediately. I then inched up from 40 to 41 to 42 to 43 to 44, decided that 44 was a little too much and dropped one notch to 43. I've left it there and had no complaints. I think things look noticeably sharp, but not over processed.

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post #8739 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 08:25 AM
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I leave it on all the time on my Sony vw95es projector with 106 inch screen. Forget what strength, semi-low maybe 25. I never change it or turn it off.
One time it turned off, maybe after a power failure. The picture didn't look as good, and that's when I discovered it wasn't on, and turned it back on. That proved to me that it's worth leaving on. I think some of the recent projectors have some settings that may resemble Darblet processing, in which case I might try that instead.
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post #8740 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Me, I rarely use the Darbee processing. The reason is mostly because I found the Darbee to impose a distinct signature look upon the image, which makes me aware the image has been altered and processed. Thus the more I turn it up to make an appreciable difference in clarity/dimensionality, the more processed the image looks, the more I turn it down the less processed it looks, but the less effect, and worth, the Darbee seems to have. If I put it on it tends to be at around 15 or so. But, again, I rarely use it these days.
There is a very simple fix for this, which is to leave the unit on for a few weeks until you finally stop obsessively scrutinizing every pixel in the image, and flipping the processing on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off trying to detect what it does. Eventually, you'll get over that and just watch what you want to watch, until you forget that the Darbee is even on at all, except that it makes everything look a little bit better.

15% is very low, almost at the verge of not being discernible at all. If your tolerance for any incremental change to what you expect is a "pure" picture is that small, you should probably not be using Darbee.

Every display interacts with the processing differently, but 30% to 40% is typically a safe zone. If you set it for 30% and are aghast that your picture is no longer pure... well, again, leave it like that for a few weeks and see if you still feel that way. Odds are, you probably won't.
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post #8741 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 04:27 PM
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I had not used my Darbee Deblet 5000 for months, with power switch complete off. I tried to power it up this afternoon. A green light flashed once inside the case and death. There is no reset button. I had pushed all the buttons, but no reaction. It is death. Sent a email to Darbee Vision and awaiting their advice. What a bad day.
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post #8742 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 05:14 PM
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Ive had one for years set at Gaming 53 which I guess is kind of high compared to others but it gives me a great picture on my Samsung 8500 LED.Wonder what it will be like when I use it on a 65 OLEd which is a future purchase?

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post #8743 of 8760 Old 06-30-2015, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
There is a very simple fix for this, which is to leave the unit on for a few weeks until you finally stop obsessively scrutinizing every pixel in the image, and flipping the processing on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off trying to detect what it does. Eventually, you'll get over that and just watch what you want to watch, until you forget that the Darbee is even on at all, except that it makes everything look a little bit better.

15% is very low, almost at the verge of not being discernible at all. If your tolerance for any incremental change to what you expect is a "pure" picture is that small, you should probably not be using Darbee.

Every display interacts with the processing differently, but 30% to 40% is typically a safe zone. If you set it for 30% and are aghast that your picture is no longer pure... well, again, leave it like that for a few weeks and see if you still feel that way. Odds are, you probably won't.
Thanks for simplifying things for me Josh.

I've had the darbee processing for a long time, and have had a long time to use it, and I've tried living with it on at various settings for quite a while. But this is where I've ended up.

I remember back further in this thread (or another forum) there have been a range of reactions to owning the Darbee processing. Some like me, I remember, had become more conservative after an initial "wow" period.

Though with new, eye-candy SFX movies I sometimes pump up the Darbee some more. But for many older movies the Darbee effect I find feels less film-like. It's been a while so I was seeing how others stand. I'm not actually against processing per se. I actually use a similar contrast enhancing process on my JVC projector, called "Clear Black."

I actually like that processing better than the Darbee, as I find it more unobtrusive
while making a significant difference in clarity and dimensionality. (Not that everyone would agree). Though occasionally I like the Darbee over the JVC processing. I was simply seeing who else has come to a similar place with the Darbee.

(BTW, I'd say your estimate of 30% to 40% being a typical "safe zone" is a bit high. As I remember when I used to monitor the Darbee threads, not a few people ended up finding more like 20 to 30 in terms of adding some clarity with, to them, acceptable artifacts. At 30 to 40 I'm amazed if you don't notice how exaggerated bright areas become, especially light reflections on the faces of actors. The scene in Avatar where the Colonel finishes with the weights and sits up to talk to Jake has strong down-light accents on his face, nose, forehead, and they become seriously exaggerated and artificial looking at those "safe" numbers you mention. IMO. This is what bugs me on lots of material when I try to live with the darbee processing much higher than 15 or 20).

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post #8744 of 8760 Old 07-01-2015, 06:29 AM
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I have my Darbee at 45% on my 136" 2.35:1 screen with a JVC RS46 projector and love it. Anything less I can't see what it's doing. For me it gives the image a bit more 'pop' and makes it seem as if it is adding clarity that isn't there without it. I've had it on this setting for all movies, TV shows and games and completely left it alone for the last 6 months. I shut it off the other day and everything looked dull.
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post #8745 of 8760 Old 07-01-2015, 08:10 AM
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For non-projector owners: The Darblet goes up to 120%. Have had our Samsung PN60F8500 plasma and Darblet 5000 for two years. My wife and I are very satisfied with a Darblet setting that is way beyond where the projector folks fear to tread.
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post #8746 of 8760 Old 07-01-2015, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

(BTW, I'd say your estimate of 30% to 40% being a typical "safe zone" is a bit high. As I remember when I used to monitor the Darbee threads, not a few people ended up finding more like 20 to 30 in terms of adding some clarity with, to them, acceptable artifacts. At 30 to 40 I'm amazed if you don't notice how exaggerated bright areas become, especially light reflections on the faces of actors. The scene in Avatar where the Colonel finishes with the weights and sits up to talk to Jake has strong down-light accents on his face, nose, forehead, and they become seriously exaggerated and artificial looking at those "safe" numbers you mention. IMO. This is what bugs me on lots of material when I try to live with the darbee processing much higher than 15 or 20).
Is it possible that you are running the JVC "Clear Black" setting and Darbee setting together? If so then that would account for your misconception that 30-40% is a bit high. I run the Darbee at HD 40% with all processing on my projector turned off. Looks great on all Blu-rays and streaming videos.

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post #8747 of 8760 Old 07-01-2015, 08:29 AM
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Is it possible that you are running the JVC "Clear Black" setting and Darbee setting together? If so then that would account for your misconception that 30-40% is a bit high. I run the Darbee at HD 40% with all processing on my projector turned off. Looks great on all Blu-rays and streaming videos.
No, I'm definitely not making that error. As for "misconception" I'm speaking mostly about taste.
HD at 40% may look great to you, there's no disputing taste, but it generally would be intrusive and obvious to me on lots of material. Again, I'm not making any argument that people "should" see it as I do.
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post #8748 of 8760 Old 07-01-2015, 12:48 PM
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It all depends on how critical a viewer are. And what you self label yourself at is not usually an objective rating of your viewer criticality. clearly you should set it at whatever you think is best. One can increase the saturation of colors beyond what they would be to measure correctly if that;s what you like. Its like picking the ideal mate.


People who are video professionals and whose job it is to improve the video displayed, usually use about 20% Darbee before they see artifacting who prevents their evaluation of what they are evaluation. For just general viewing, most of these people use around 30. I use 35 and leave it on for everything on my 1100ES. But I don't see certain artifacting that others might see, both caused by the darbee and other things. there is no safe. No one can tell you what's right and what's wrong. Its what you like.

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post #8749 of 8760 Old 07-01-2015, 01:33 PM
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Precisely why I've said it's a matter of taste, and that I was curious where people's taste ended up with the Darbee.
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post #8750 of 8760 Old 07-02-2015, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Precisely why I've said it's a matter of taste, and that I was curious where people's taste ended up with the Darbee.
It's not just a matter of taste but also a matter of what display the Darbee is being used with, and what is being watched. I originally used it with a Mitsubishi DLP TV and could set the Darbee to HD 55 with no problem, but had to lower it to HD 40 for a Panasonic 65ST50 plasma, and have lowered it further to HD 30 for my current Samsung 64F8500 plasma. Those are averages, with further adjustments needing to be made depending on what I'm watching.
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post #8751 of 8760 Old 07-02-2015, 08:50 AM
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Precisely why I've said it's a matter of taste, and that I was curious where people's taste ended up with the Darbee.
My earlier point was that it is not just taste but equipment dependent. Almost everyone who has posted in this thread have completely different setups.

Even if we started a poll on Darbee settings it would mean very little except to point out that we all have different displays and associated A/V equipment.

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post #8752 of 8760 Old 07-02-2015, 08:53 AM
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Precisely why I've said it's a matter of taste, and that I was curious where people's taste ended up with the Darbee.
This is like asking "what volume" do you guys listen at? and then saying "wow, that's way too loud for me". I guess I just don't understand these types of posts. EVERYONE sees things differently and EVERYONE hears things differently. The only "important" setting is the one that looks best to YOU!
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post #8753 of 8760 Old 07-02-2015, 11:19 AM
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It's not just a matter of taste but also a matter of what display the Darbee is being used with, and what is being watched. I originally used it with a Mitsubishi DLP TV and could set the Darbee to HD 55 with no problem, but had to lower it to HD 40 for a Panasonic 65ST50 plasma, and have lowered it further to HD 30 for my current Samsung 64F8500 plasma. Those are averages, with further adjustments needing to be made depending on what I'm watching.
Of course.

Which is why I had asked fredxr2d2 earlier what kind of display he used, which could explain the differences in how we dial the Darbee to some degree.
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post #8754 of 8760 Old 07-02-2015, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
My earlier point was that it is not just taste but equipment dependent. Almost everyone who has posted in this thread have completely different setups.

Even if we started a poll on Darbee settings it would mean very little except to point out that we all have different displays and associated A/V equipment.
My question "Now that you've owned the Darbee for quite a while, how much do you use it? As much as you figured you would? More? Less?" can be answered by anyone, with any set up.

(And, even so, though I wasn't asking for a poll on exact settings, that would be nonetheless interesting, combined with the display being used. After all, the Darbee applies the SAME amount of alteration/processing to an image no matter what set up you use. So it would be interesting if, say, some people felt they needed to pump it up to %40 to start perceiving a difference, vs someone else who notices it at %20. It may be a comment on the fidelity of the rest of their system, their own visual acuity, seating distance, etc. But just in of itself it's kind of interesting to see the variation. All that said, as Mark H mentioned: "People who are video professionals and whose job it is to improve the video displayed, usually use about 20% Darbee before they see artifacting who prevents their evaluation of what they are evaluation." And that does seem to track with the many conversations I followed about those testing the Darbee, earlier on).
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post #8755 of 8760 Old 07-02-2015, 11:37 AM
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This is like asking "what volume" do you guys listen at? and then saying "wow, that's way too loud for me". I guess I just don't understand these types of posts. EVERYONE sees things differently and EVERYONE hears things differently. The only "important" setting is the one that looks best to YOU!

I said how much Darbee processing one likes is a matter of taste. You declare "The only "important" setting is the one that looks best to YOU!"

Why are you saying that, as if it disagreed with what you quoted from me?

My original question ASSUMES we have different set ups and tastes, and simply Iasked: "Now that you've owned the Darbee for quite a while, how much do you use it? As much as you figured you would? More? Less?"

What in the world do you find so strange, confusing or futile about that question?

We are av enthusiasts, sharing our experience with gear. That's what we do here.
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post #8756 of 8760 Old Yesterday, 06:51 AM
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My question "Now that you've owned the Darbee for quite a while, how much do you use it? As much as you figured you would? More? Less?" can be answered by anyone, with any set up.
Oh, I see.

1. Owned mine for years
2. I use it all the time.
3. As much as I figured? Yes, of course.
4. It's on all the time. I don't know of anyone contributing in this thread who turns it off...except for you.

Hope this helps.
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post #8757 of 8760 Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM
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Oh, I see.

1. Owned mine for years
2. I use it all the time.
3. As much as I figured? Yes, of course.
4. It's on all the time. I don't know of anyone contributing in this thread who turns it off...except for you.

Hope this helps.
Ditto.
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post #8758 of 8760 Old Yesterday, 02:10 PM
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Thanks Mr. G.

As for #4 , see this page in this thread for examples of owners who gave up on the Darbee processing:

Darbee vision darblet

There have been various people who eventually sold or returned their Darbee as well. This thread was generally more positive on the Darbee than some threads in other forums.

Of course, especially by now, I guess this thread is mostly self-selecting for people how have kept their Darbee (like me). But I still wondered if how many, if any, had begun to use it less like me.

Although I always have my displays professionally calibrated, I've never been in the "purist' camp of "give me accuracy or give me death." In fact, I argued quite a bit with purists in other forums, FOR the Darbee. I also spent quite a lot of money for the Lumagen 2041 processor mostly because it had Darbee processing and I was having some HDMI handshake issues with my Darblet that the Lumagen solved by replacing it. I figured therefore I'd be using the Darbee processing all the time. But the more I used it, the less I've wanted to use it simply because I find it's effect to put a signature on the image, and hence on all images, that I notice as "Darbeeized." Which makes it hard to put out of mind (for me).

Certainly not where I figured I'd end up. I still think the Darbee processing is valuable, and use it sometimes (I just did recently). But as I said, I became curious if anyone else this far down the road had similar experience, or just generally how people were using their Darbee.

That's all from me. This thread isn't so active anymore so I doubt there will be much more input. Over 'n out.

Last edited by R Harkness; Yesterday at 04:16 PM.
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Besides "Darbeeized" as you mentioned above, its longevity and automatic change to default settings are another issue. These are the common complaints. I have my Darbee Darblet a little over 1 year. Seldom use it. It is switched off when not in use. Last usage was a few months ago. Lately I tried to turned it on. Its green led light flashed once and death. Automatic change of default by itself happened a few times. Darbee Vision was asking me to return for testing. Refurbished unit is about $150 if my unit is not repairable. $300 price tag on new purchase that only serves 2 years is TOO expensive.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
Oh, I see.

1. Owned mine for years
2. I use it all the time.
3. As much as I figured? Yes, of course.
4. It's on all the time. I don't know of anyone contributing in this thread who turns it off...except for you.

Hope this helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
Ditto.
Double ditto.

Sometimes we nudge up or down a couple of %'s based on content, but the Darbee effect is a valuable plus on all content in our projection system. YMMV


Every once in a while, quite inexplicably, things actually go according to plan.
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