Darbee vision darblet - Page 312 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Forum Jump: 
 229Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #9331 of 9354 Old 11-11-2016, 03:11 AM
Senior Member
 
a5ian300zx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by wackid View Post
OK thanks... And how do you scale (1 to 10) the product in means of removing artifacts and enhancing the image of the Dvdo?
I would rate it around 8 but with image processing it can only do certain degree and won't work magic.

Ie if the input signal is not good it will improve it and but won't work magic.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

TV: Panasonic 55" VT65 Plasma Surround: Yamaha RXA3050 + Orbs Audio Mod2 7.1 + SVS SB12-NSD Stereo: Yamaha AS500 + Kef Q300 Processor: DVDO Duo + Darbee 5000S + Iscan Mini Players: HDI Dune Solo4K / Nvidia Shield TV / VU+ Duo2 NAS: Qnap 871 Pro
a5ian300zx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #9332 of 9354 Old 11-16-2016, 09:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
skoolpsyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 44
I was setting up a folder on my bookmarks today in prep for black friday to see if I could snag one on sale. Lo and behold, Crutchfield has it on sale right now! Pulled the trigger on the dvp5000s for $149 with no tax and free shipping!
skoolpsyk is offline  
post #9333 of 9354 Old 11-16-2016, 09:35 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
biliam1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 1,287
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 135
With all these sales and price drops, I think a new 4K UHD version is right around the corner.

I have a feeling we'll see one at CES 2017 in about a month and a half. Well, I'm hoping...
biliam1982 is offline  
post #9334 of 9354 Old 11-16-2016, 10:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sunny SoCal
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
To add to what cdnscg says, select a high-quality image with a human face, say the evening news. Pause the playback and toggle Darbee processing off and on. Look at fine facial details, like the eyebrows, nose profile, eyes, etc. you should see a distinct edge enhancement. Other good test images are turf grass (look for clarity in the blades of grass), close-ups of trees (note the clarity of the leaves), and especially crowd scenes in stadiums (individual fans should be clearly visible).

Now, adjust the amount of Darbee processing. I recommend using Hi Def, not Gaming or Full Pop, as a starting point. Set processing to 50%, and gradually increase the processing in 1% increments until the edge enhancement is obvious. Now adjust up and down around this point until you think you have a pleasing effect. There should be no obvious "halo" or black edge enhancements-that would be too much processing. Toggle processing off and on, and you should now see the pleasing clarity enhancement that Darbee processing is known for. Enjoy!
No offense but your description of what DarbeeVision does they would hate and disavow the 2 words, "edge enhancement". They bend over backwards to do nothing on the edges of objects and hate when they get blamed if there is existing edge enhancement prior to running through Darbee processing, and then with it including everything else appearing more clear and more rounded and dimensional...... being more obvious as well. I have had this explained to me directly by both Paul before he passed and Larry in person.
krichter1 likes this.
RonF is online now  
post #9335 of 9354 Old 11-17-2016, 07:02 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 14,235
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5903 Post(s)
Liked: 3313
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post
No offense but your description of what DarbeeVision does they would hate and disavow the 2 words, "edge enhancement". They bend over backwards to do nothing on the edges of objects and hate when they get blamed if there is existing edge enhancement prior to running through Darbee processing, and then with it including everything else appearing more clear and more rounded and dimensional...... being more obvious as well. I have had this explained to me directly by both Paul before he passed and Larry in person.
Sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone with my poor choice of words. So if you were describing to a new user how to adjust the level of Darbee processing, what words would you use to describe it? As you increase the processing, there is a point where the processing is obviously "too much".
AustinJerry is offline  
post #9336 of 9354 Old 11-17-2016, 09:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 7,454
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1359 Post(s)
Liked: 956
It becomes "obvious."

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #9337 of 9354 Old 11-17-2016, 09:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sunny SoCal
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Hi Jerry
Over the years it's pretty much just like you describe, as others on AVS would say to do, or I would do myself. Those are great ways to find your own preferred levels. I was just concerned with those two words, edge enhancement, that the impression was given that's how it works and know how hard they had to and Larry still does have to fight against being categorized as working in similar fashion to many other "sharpening"only techniques. Take them out and your procedure is very helpful.

I have two displays currently using the original Darblet or the "Darbee", as I affectionately call it because so many here have said the Darbee over the years. One is a still working very well and loved 61" LED DLP Samsung RPTV and the other is my current projector in long line of JVCs, an RS500. I can be much more set and forget with the Samsung and at much higher levels with the HD setting as you say. There is something about the wobulation process, maybe it's a tad softer than a straight 1080P DLP single chip. You get so used to it looking at that level you're happy with that when it is turned off, whoa!! the image looks less focussed and softer, not as clear. I only have it in line with my DirecTV tuner and not my bluray player or Roku streamer. Just using the 3 HDMI ports with no switcher. Although LOL ..... light bulb just went off in my head typing this, that I do have a small, good switcher not being used in my main theater that I should think about putting in line with the Sammy so I can use the Darbee with the Roku unit and bluray player also. Duh.

The JVC projectors though with my much larger image coming off of an old school 2.8 Hi Power screen, I am always playing with the settings on my now five and a half year old original Darblet and remote and power unit. Have had great luck with the 3 pieces and only had to replace the battery in the remote one time. Occasional resets needed on both Darblets when either inexplicably as others have long reported, resets itself becoming 120 Full Pop with brightest red lettering persistent on the bottom of the screens. Small price to pay.

As you say, the comparison with a still frame or in regular motion by turning the processing on and off with the particular source you're watching is the easiest and quickest way to judge how much you want before it looks over processed. The better and cleaner the source the more effective it can be and higher settings can be used if one prefers. I watch a lot of Lakers basketball and other sports and best transfer blurays of movies. With TNT broadcasts of games some are just gorgeous they are so clean. I run it higher than on a broadcast which might be a little noisy. But with the toggling off and on with a higher setting I am always struck with as you mention people sitting in the crowd, such as during free throws, and with the players as well faces how this "roundness" wraps itself around those faces. Sharper yes. More detailed yes. But definitely more dimensionality and roundness of details in the picture as well from that 2D source. 3D too for that matter. Pacific Rim with that RS500 and the Darblet in 3D .... OMG!!

Last edited by RonF; 11-17-2016 at 11:38 AM.
RonF is online now  
post #9338 of 9354 Old 11-27-2016, 10:41 AM
Member
 
HEELSFINL4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 10
darbee and 4k OLED TV

I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere but I* can't find it. I also posted this question in the LG tv forum. I have an LG B6 OLED tv, and my darbee doesnt work with it at all. When I hook everything up, the TV says it can't find the input. I assumed it would not work with 4K material, but it doesn't seem to work with my direct Tv signal, which is 1080p at best. Are there any ways to work around this, or am I out of luck. Also, I have everything running through a Marantz NR 1606. Thanks in advance
HEELSFINL4 is offline  
post #9339 of 9354 Old 11-27-2016, 01:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 14,235
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5903 Post(s)
Liked: 3313
Quote:
Originally Posted by HEELSFINL4 View Post
I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere but I* can't find it. I also posted this question in the LG tv forum. I have an LG B6 OLED tv, and my darbee doesnt work with it at all. When I hook everything up, the TV says it can't find the input. I assumed it would not work with 4K material, but it doesn't seem to work with my direct Tv signal, which is 1080p at best. Are there any ways to work around this, or am I out of luck. Also, I have everything running through a Marantz NR 1606. Thanks in advance
There is no reason that it shouldn't work properly. The Darblet will not pass a 4K signal, so I suspect that is the issue. Take a look at the video up-scaling options on the Marantz. If it is set to "Auto" or 4K, then switch it to 1080p. If that is not the solution, I am not sure what else could be wrong.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #9340 of 9354 Old 11-27-2016, 01:48 PM
Member
 
HEELSFINL4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Darbee and LG B6

Thanks Austin: I did change the output on the Marantz to 1080 and I did get it to work. However, whenever I enable deep color on my LG ( which is recommended for HDR shows) , the input isn't recognized. So it looks like it's one of the other. Either direct tv with the Darbee working but no deep color. Or deep color and the benfits of HDR movies. Thanks again
HEELSFINL4 is offline  
post #9341 of 9354 Old 11-27-2016, 02:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 14,235
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5903 Post(s)
Liked: 3313
Quote:
Originally Posted by HEELSFINL4 View Post
Thanks Austin: I did change the output on the Marantz to 1080 and I did get it to work. However, whenever I enable deep color on my LG ( which is recommended for HDR shows) , the input isn't recognized. So it looks like it's one of the other. Either direct tv with the Darbee working but no deep color. Or deep color and the benfits of HDR movies. Thanks again
Or you can do what I do, have two HDMI connections between the AVR and the display. One connection with the Darblet for use with conventional 1080p signals, and the second connection for advanced video features that the Darblet doesn't support (4K, HDR, etc.). This gives you the best of both worlds for the time being.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #9342 of 9354 Old 11-27-2016, 02:36 PM
Member
 
HEELSFINL4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks again for the suggestion but I think I honey have one HDMI out on the receiver. I would probably need to get some sort of switcher or splitter to make that work until a 4K Darbee comes out
HEELSFINL4 is offline  
post #9343 of 9354 Old 11-30-2016, 09:48 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 20,073
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 844 Post(s)
Liked: 669
I have not been following the Darbee product progression....but it seems strange that when you pull up their site and products list, they only offer refurb versions of their two products. Is this normal? Are they primarily selling through retailers now vs direct? If it's not normal, one would think they are near offering a 4k product (which is contrary to what's been discussed recently in the OPPO 203 player's thread (when darbee has been brought up).

Part of my reason for bring this up is I am thinking up jumping back into a darbee unit since I sold my OPPO 103D blu ray player. I miss what is does for my 1080P signals.

Retired Moderator

FS: APC J10 Home Theater Conditioner/UPS back up $100: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/211-ac...y-back-up.html
rboster is offline  
post #9344 of 9354 Old 11-30-2016, 09:58 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 14,235
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5903 Post(s)
Liked: 3313
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post
I have not been following the Darbee product progression....but it seems strange that when you pull up their site and products list, they only offer refurb versions of their two products. Is this normal? Are they primarily selling through retailers now vs direct? If it's not normal, one would think they are near offering a 4k product (which is contrary to what's been discussed recently in the OPPO 203 player's thread (when darbee has been brought up).

Part of my reason for bring this up is I am thinking up jumping back into a darbee unit since I sold my OPPO 103D blu ray player. I miss what is does for my 1080P signals.
Don't know what is going on with the refurnished units, but you can buy a Darblet from a number of places.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #9345 of 9354 Old 11-30-2016, 10:21 AM
Senior Member
 
KK in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Has anyone experienced any handshake issues with an Xfinity X1 cable box? I have recently been having issues and am trying to pinpoint what is going on. The only thing new in the chain is the X1 box, which is connected to a Denon X5200 AVR and then to the Darbee and off to a Samsung plasma. Sometimes turning on everything to watch TV results in no picture, sometimes in a flashing picture, and then other times it just works fine. I've been trying a number of potential solutions with the AVR and Xfinity box that have not seemed to help much. I'm wondering if the Darbee could be causing anything?

KK in CT is offline  
post #9346 of 9354 Old 11-30-2016, 11:21 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 20,073
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 844 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Don't know what is going on with the refurnished units, but you can buy a Darblet from a number of places.
It's not a question of finding a darbee to purchase....it just seemed odd they were not selling "new" darbees on their website so...

1) Have they changed their retail chain...selling direct and through retailers to just retailers?

2) Are they not producing new units, because the new product line that will handle 4k signals is around the corner (in terms of availability)?

Sorry, I wasn't clearer in my first post.

Ron

Retired Moderator

FS: APC J10 Home Theater Conditioner/UPS back up $100: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/211-ac...y-back-up.html
rboster is offline  
post #9347 of 9354 Old 11-30-2016, 11:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
Bob Fosse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post
It's not a question of finding a darbee to purchase....it just seemed odd they were not selling "new" darbees on their website so...

1) Have they changed their retail chain...selling direct and through retailers to just retailers?

2) Are they not producing new units, because the new product line that will handle 4k signals is around the corner (in terms of availability)?

Sorry, I wasn't clearer in my first post.

Ron
It could be #2. Here's a link that you might find interesting:

http://www.ingearpr.com/DarbeeVision/160614.html
rboster likes this.

A/V SYSTEM: Sony Z9D 75" LCD main, LG EF9500 OLED, Anthem 525 5.1 channel amp, Anthem AVM 60 processor, ProAc D80 L+R, ProAc Response CC, AT surround Speakers, SVS SB12+ Sub, Oppo 103 BD, TiVo Bolt, PS Audio P10 power plant, dedicated 20 amp lines, Auralex room treatments, black out curtains.
2 CHANNEL: Aurender N10 music server, Ayre SACD player, Ayre QX-5 DAC, PS Audio DS DAC, ARC Ref6 preamp, ARC Ref 75SE or Ayre VX-5 Twenty amps, Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers
Bob Fosse is online now  
post #9348 of 9354 Old 11-30-2016, 04:30 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 20,073
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 844 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Fosse View Post
It could be #2. Here's a link that you might find interesting:

http://www.ingearpr.com/DarbeeVision/160614.html
From that press release:

DarbeeVision will display its HD DVP-5000S HDMI® video processor as well as demonstrate the next evolution of its IP technology, 4K/UHD DARBEE Visual Presence™ (DVP), that will be available later this year."

I'm going to guess that's been pushed back, since we will be in the last month of this year without any announcements from Darbee since June?

Thanks very much for the link.

Ron

Retired Moderator

FS: APC J10 Home Theater Conditioner/UPS back up $100: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/211-ac...y-back-up.html
rboster is offline  
post #9349 of 9354 Old 11-30-2016, 05:27 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
biliam1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 1,287
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post
From that press release:

DarbeeVision will display its HD DVP-5000S HDMI® video processor as well as demonstrate the next evolution of its IP technology, 4K/UHD DARBEE Visual Presence™ (DVP), that will be available later this year."

I'm going to guess that's been pushed back, since we will be in the last month of this year without any announcements from Darbee since June?

Thanks very much for the link.

Ron
Ron, I posted this back in September. With them clearing inventory at the prices we've seen, I too think it'll be next year and likely at CES.

Darbee vision darblet
biliam1982 is offline  
post #9350 of 9354 Old 11-30-2016, 05:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rboster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 20,073
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 844 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Ron, I posted this back in September. With them clearing inventory at the prices we've seen, I too think it'll be next year and likely at CES.

Darbee vision darblet
Thanks for the info

Retired Moderator

FS: APC J10 Home Theater Conditioner/UPS back up $100: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/211-ac...y-back-up.html
rboster is offline  
post #9351 of 9354 Old 12-01-2016, 05:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hometheatergeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
Has anyone experienced any handshake issues with an Xfinity X1 cable box? I have recently been having issues and am trying to pinpoint what is going on. The only thing new in the chain is the X1 box, which is connected to a Denon X5200 AVR and then to the Darbee and off to a Samsung plasma. Sometimes turning on everything to watch TV results in no picture, sometimes in a flashing picture, and then other times it just works fine. I've been trying a number of potential solutions with the AVR and Xfinity box that have not seemed to help much. I'm wondering if the Darbee could be causing anything?
I have the X1 Pace box connected to a Denon 4311ci into the Darbee then on to a Sharp LED display and have no handshake issues. What resolution are you using in the X1 box? I have mine set at 1080p/60hz.

Hometheatergeek

aka AL
----------
My Current System
hometheatergeek is offline  
post #9352 of 9354 Old 12-01-2016, 07:26 AM
Senior Member
 
KK in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
Has anyone experienced any handshake issues with an Xfinity X1 cable box? I have recently been having issues and am trying to pinpoint what is going on. The only thing new in the chain is the X1 box, which is connected to a Denon X5200 AVR and then to the Darbee and off to a Samsung plasma. Sometimes turning on everything to watch TV results in no picture, sometimes in a flashing picture, and then other times it just works fine. I've been trying a number of potential solutions with the AVR and Xfinity box that have not seemed to help much. I'm wondering if the Darbee could be causing anything?
I have the X1 Pace box connected to a Denon 4311ci into the Darbee then on to a Sharp LED display and have no handshake issues. What resolution are you using in the X1 box? I have mine set at 1080p/60hz.
Thanks for the info. I have mine set at the same resolution. I had them send the box a signal refresh and so far things seem to be working ok. Hopefully that continues.
KK in CT is offline  
post #9353 of 9354 Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM
Member
 
Breakbeat989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I find it interesting HDR is absent from the compatibility list.

From their site:
"DARBEE technologies are fidelity-independent and work with all video content — SD, HD, upscaled HD to 4K UHD, 4K UHD, IPTV, OTT, VOD, virtual or augmented reality, omni-view 360-degree video, cable, satellite, Blu-ray, and still images — making its solutions compatible and complementary with existing and future image processing and display technologies."

Also does anyone know if the new Oppo UDP-203 will be HDR compatible?

I was really hoping they would have something out before the holidays.
Breakbeat989 is offline  
post #9354 of 9354 Old Today, 01:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
muffinmcfluffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Bruno, California
Posts: 1,576
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 119
How many Darbees do people have daisy-chained in their system? I only have two and they are on separate TV's, but for a while I had two together, one that did HD at 40% and the next one did Full Pop at 5%.

I'm curious to see what, like, four of them at 10% each would look like in comparison to one of them at 40%, and if the effect would look better or worse.

Living Room: Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / Sony PS3 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 Darblet / Panamax M5400-PM / miniDSP UMIK‑1 USB
Bedroom: Samsung PN59D7000 PDP / Energy Power Bar Elite Soundbar & SW / Sony PS4 / DirecTV C41W-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 Darblet / Hauppauge HD PVR 2
Classroom: SMART Board X800 / Yamaha RX-V667 / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS SB-2000
muffinmcfluffin is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Video Processors

Tags
Darbeevision Darblet Hdmi Video Processor



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off