Darbee vision darblet - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 8390 Old 07-21-2012, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by larryep View Post

I know that projector is going on its ten good years of service. For the past 3 years I have wanted to upgrade but the funds just have not been there. This may be the first time that I may have funds for a projector in Feb. 2013. The LED/LAZER from Panasonic sounds really promising. I have gone thru over 15 lamps for the plv70. Price range for that lamp has gone from 350 dollars to 115 dollars over the past 10 year
Thank you Mark for the update for dvi connection. This gadget sounds really good!
Larry

Awesome! I typically go 5 to 7 years before upgrading. I had a Sharp 640x480 LCD projector in 1995 and upgraded to a Sony VPL-VW10HT in 2000 and then a JVC RS1u in Dec. 2007. Still on the JVC and still very happy here. Added an Acer H5360 for 3D use last year.

I really don't have any urge to upgrade right now. In Dec it will be 5 years with the JVC but I don't use it daily like I did the other two projectors. Color corrected with a DVDO Duo the JVC still throws a great image. Especially now with a Darblet!
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post #1082 of 8390 Old 07-21-2012, 08:33 PM
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Hhhhooooaaaaa... (gasping for air)...

Just read every post of this thread. I decided yesterday (on page 32) to give Mark a call to pre-order my Darblet. Mark, pleasure talking to you my friend. I've already coordinated with Jeff to bring it by his place to run it through it's paces. I'm hoping he doesn't pull rank on my and try to keep it. :-)
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Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

If you can wait to bring your Darblet to CEDIA, we will reprogram it on the spot for free, give you a spiff and let you see one of the coolest things you have ever seen in your life.

Hummm... Perplexing statement Mr. Darbee. Still trying to figure out what a spiff is and what could possibly be one of the coolest things I've seen in my life?

Is this a hint ar a new product you guys will be introducing??? Details? Or are you going to make us wait?
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post #1083 of 8390 Old 07-22-2012, 03:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Really?
A number of us have been experiencing HDMI issues - handshake, weird audio stuff (in my case) with the Darblet. I thought this was being addressed as well. frown.gif

Me to i could not get any Picture on my Samsung 59"D6900 UK plasma, through the demo sample i had. There are still issues to be sorted.
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post #1084 of 8390 Old 07-22-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Hhhhooooaaaaa... (gasping for air)...
Just read every post of this thread. I decided yesterday (on page 32) to give Mark a call to pre-order my Darblet. Mark, pleasure talking to you my friend. I've already coordinated with Jeff to bring it by his place to run it through it's paces. I'm hoping he doesn't pull rank on my and try to keep it. :-)
Hummm... Perplexing statement Mr. Darbee. Still trying to figure out what a spiff is and what could possibly be one of the coolest things I've seen in my life?
Is this a hint ar a new product you guys will be introducing??? Details? Or are you going to make us wait?

I am guessing it is some kind of gift. "A spiff or spiv is an immediate bonus for a sale. Typically, "spiffs" are paid, either by a manufacturer or employer, directly to a salesperson for selling a specific product."
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post #1085 of 8390 Old 07-22-2012, 04:01 PM
 
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Dr. Darbee obviously misused the word spiff. I think he meant gift.
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post #1086 of 8390 Old 07-22-2012, 07:54 PM
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Maybe he meant spliff. JK..

James Reid:D
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post #1087 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Dr. Darbee obviously misused the word spiff. I think he meant gift.

Quite innocent possibly ;its also aussie slang for take a look at something ; interesting for sure smile.gif
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post #1088 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 06:29 AM
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fYI . Sunday emailed Darbee for RMA and some questions. Within a few hours i had my RA# and questions answered. Only complaint is on such a new product having to pay shipping to CA from NJ for an issue with the product that happened so soon on release. Other wise no issues. I really do like the darblet and will miss it while its out.

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post #1089 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Dr. Darbee obviously misused the word spiff. I think he meant gift.
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Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Quite innocent possibly ;its also aussie slang for take a look at something ; interesting for sure smile.gif
Ok, that could make sense given the context of the sentence... Come to think of it, the term "Darby Darblet" in-and-of-itself sounds of Aussie orgin...lol

I still think he was phishing for someone to take the bait. I'll bite... Tell us Mr. Darbee... Will the "coolest thing we will see in our life" be watching the Darblet in action or is a new product on the Horizon?
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As i have already said the very serious handshake issues between the Darblet and UK Samsung plasmas need sorting before this ships to the UK or there is going to be some very disappointed customers.
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post #1091 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Ok, that could make sense given the context of the sentence... Come to think of it, the term "Darby Darblet" in-and-of-itself sounds of Aussie orgin...lol
I still think he was phishing for someone to take the bait. I'll bite... Tell us Mr. Darbee... Will the "coolest thing we will see in our life" be watching the Darblet in action or is a new product on the Horizon?

There is a darby street not far from me lol but darbee vision is listed on the nasdaq so maybe not ? New product ? Theres possibly 3 other possibilities biggrin.gif -
Quote:
DarbeeVision's proven technology is suitable for a wide range of applications. The technology suite includes: Darbee Software™, a software application running on the CPU for still image processing; Darbee GPU Software™, a software application running on a CUDA enabled NVIDIA GPU for real-time digital video processing; a reference design based upon Altera Cyclone FPGA architecture for an HDMI video processor module that enables real-time video Darbee processing between HDMI enable source and display devices; the Darbee IP Block™, a hardware IP block for licensing to be used in embedded applications.
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Just seen this statement from a well respected member on another forum and i think it sums the Darblet up:

Given the nature of DVP an accurately calibrated (reference) image elements would by definition have a % of the image changed frame by frame if it met the DVP criteria. As such the image will no longer be reference where it's been manipulated.

The % of change will depend on the frame content i.e. number of identifiable boundaries/objects that DVP targets and manipulates to exaggerate difference. Physiologically this exaggeration is appealing in a similar may to many of the trick employed to differentiate TV on the showroom floor.

My guess is many folks will favour a manipulated image over an accurate image. Some of this may be down to the viewing environment, display tech, personal taste etc or probably a combination.

Avi

So i am now of the opinion that i want to see the image as intended without any digital processing going on.smile.gif
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post #1093 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

Just seen this statement from a well respected member on another forum and i think it sums the Darblet up:
Given the nature of DVP an accurately calibrated (reference) image elements would by definition have a % of the image changed frame by frame if it met the DVP criteria. As such the image will no longer be reference where it's been manipulated.

The % of change will depend on the frame content i.e. number of identifiable boundaries/objects that DVP targets and manipulates to exaggerate difference. Physiologically this exaggeration is appealing in a similar may to many of the trick employed to differentiate TV on the showroom floor.

My guess is many folks will favour a manipulated image over an accurate image. Some of this may be down to the viewing environment, display tech, personal taste etc or probably a combination.

Avi
So i am now of the opinion that i want to see the image as intended without any digital processing going on.smile.gif


Then you do not know what you are missing.


I've got a Sim2 C3X 1080p 3 chip DLP, and I was very dubious about the Darbee at first But the darn thing works. Improved contrast in the picture and more three dimensional better focused picture. The trick is to over time learn the percent of Darbee processing that works best for you.

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post #1094 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Then you do not know what you are missing.
I've got a Sim2 C3X 1080p 3 chip DLP, and I was very dubious about the Darbee at first But the darn thing works. Improved contrast in the picture and more three dimensional better focused picture. The trick is to over time learn the percent of Darbee processing that works best for you.

I have spoken with a leading authority in video compression and transfer......................................also i have used a demo model myself and my initial impressions were very favorable, but looking at and listening to those who know a thing or two about image quality it is just another image processing tool that may have uses with poorer broadcasts and maybe some DVDs. smile.gif
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post #1095 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 02:49 PM
 
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Assuming that video is in fact an illusion based on fooling your eyes into seeing some semblance of what you would see if you were there then any processing that makes what you see look closer to that would be beneficial rather than distorting processing. That is what the Darbeevision process does to my eyes,
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post #1096 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bazlog View Post


I have spoken with a leading authority in video compression and transfer......................................also i have used a demo model myself and my initial impressions were very favorable, but looking at and listening to those who know a thing or two about image quality it is just another image processing tool that may have uses with poorer broadcasts and maybe some DVDs. smile.gif

How are you going to say your impressions were favorable, but you aren't going to use a product because someone (whom you obviously respect) said it's just another image processor... You said yourself that you favored the picture.

Isn't that on par with someone telling you one speaker "sounds" better than another when YOUR ear should be the deciding factor in determining what YOU like?

Do you let people tell you what food you like or what car you like to drive? I'm trying to make sense of your rationale.
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Assuming that video is in fact an illusion based on fooling your eyes into seeing some semblance of what you would see if you were there then any processing that makes what you see look closer to that would be beficial rather than distorting processing. That is what the Darbeevision process does to my eyes,

I am not saying it's a bad thing, but put bluntly it's adding something to the image that should not be there, and as most on here care about image quality i don't think the Darblet is really doing it any favours. As in my expereance all the image processing should be turned off.
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

How are you going to say your impressions were favorable, but you aren't going to use a product because someone (whom you obviously respect) said it's just another image processor... You said yourself that you favored the picture.
Isn't that on par with someone telling you one speaker "sounds" better than another when YOUR ear should be the deciding factor in determining what YOU like?
Do you let people tell you what food you like or what car you like to drive? I'm trying to make sense of your rationale.

No certainly not. But when i was shown what the Darblet was actualy doing i decided that what i was seeing was not what was intended and was very similar to a trick photographers have been using in photoshop for ages.
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post #1099 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

I am not saying it's a bad thing, but put bluntly it's adding something to the image that should not be there, and as most on here care about image quality i don't think the Darblet is really doing it any favours. As in my expereance all the image processing should be turned off.

My dad used to get upset when I added a bit of A1 to the T-Bone he just grilled for me. Guess a little extra seasoning (even on an amazingly cooked steak) is a personal preference. Obviously that's not the taste the chef intended, but I still enjoy a great steak with a little extra.

Come to think of it... I think the only time I never add pepper, A1 or the like is when I pay waaay too much for a piece of meat and I force a mental block trying to justify the price I just paid... :-)
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post #1100 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 03:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

My dad used to get upset when I added a bit of A1 to the T-Bone he just grilled for me. Guess a little extra seasoning (even on an amazingly cooked steak) is a personal preference. Obviously that's not the taste the chef intended, but I still enjoy a great steak with a little extra.
Come to think of it... I think the only time I never add pepper, A1 or the like is when I pay waaay too much for a piece of meat and I force a mental block trying to justify the price I just paid... :-)

Yeah i see what you mean LOL..........but i can turn the brightness up a bit past where it is supposed to be and see a little more detail, or add a bit of sharpness and make the picture sharper etc but is that what was intended by the producer/ director?rolleyes.gif

The whole point of AV is to try and achieve the most acurate image we can and i am afraid to say the Darblet as far as i can tell is not the answer. However used on certain material i can see where it might be benificial.smile.gif
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post #1101 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

Yeah i see what you mean LOL..........but i can turn the brightness up a bit past where it is supposed to be and see a little more detail, or add a bit of sharpness and make the picture sharper etc but is that what was intended by the producer/ director?rolleyes.gif
The whole point of AV is to try and achieve the most acurate image we can and i am afraid to say the Darblet as far as i can tell is not the answer. However used on certain material i can see where it might be benificial.smile.gif

You've made your point and you've been heard. ...probably time to move on.
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post #1102 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bazlog View Post

...is that what was intended by the producer/ director?

Just a couple-a-things.
  1. No one knows what the producer/director intended unless the producer/director is sitting next to you describing it. Even then, there is some slippage.
  2. It is amazing how much processing is undertaken just to bring you an "unprocessed" 1080i or 1080p picture.
  3. What about what the editor intended? Or what about what the suits intended? Why is their intent less valid?

What it boils down to is, there is no absolute reference level. If a director or producer says I'm not watching what he or she intended, he or she has no place in my theater. Let him or her go find his or her own theater.

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post #1103 of 8390 Old 07-23-2012, 09:13 PM
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I thought JoshZ and RapalloAV have both covered this dilemma very well in that it's no different than watching that same bluray now with a new projector which gives the "owner" of the bluray now a much better picture. Except this is accomplished for a great deal less money. But similar final result.
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post #1104 of 8390 Old 07-24-2012, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RonF View Post

I thought JoshZ and RapalloAV have both covered this dilemma very well in that it's no different than watching that same bluray now with a new projector which gives the "owner" of the bluray now a much better picture. Except this is accomplished for a great deal less money. But similar final result.

Exactly ; find it hard to say ''thats what the director intends you to see'' when bluray itself doesnt give the full chrominance because the eye percieves luminance better wink.gif If bluray is the ''standard'' what exactly is 4k ; forget about e-shift as well rolleyes.gif anyway nuff said
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post #1105 of 8390 Old 07-24-2012, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cwt View Post

There is a darby street not far from me lol but darbee vision is listed on the nasdaq so maybe not ? New product ? Theres possibly 3 other possibilities biggrin.gif -
Quote:
DarbeeVision's proven technology is suitable for a wide range of applications. The technology suite includes: Darbee Software™, a software application running on the CPU for still image processing; Darbee GPU Software™, a software application running on a CUDA enabled NVIDIA GPU for real-time digital video processing; a reference design based upon Altera Cyclone FPGA architecture for an HDMI video processor module that enables real-time video Darbee processing between HDMI enable source and display devices; the Darbee IP Block™, a hardware IP block for licensing to be used in embedded applications.

Those don't sound very fun to me... I'm not a HTPC guy (yet) so I'm hoping this surprise he has in store is something that will appeal to the majority of potential Darblet owners. Not at all saying many wouldn't benefit from the above mentioned possibilities... I'm just personally not smart to them so I reserve comment.
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Also the Darbeevision process does not cause the picture to not comply with any mastering or display standard. I suppose the analogy would be to setting a gamma curve except that one is not really changing the gamma but enhancing the contrast delta accross transition points. A camera is quite limited in its ability to adequately capture the actual contrast accross transition points, the Darbeevision process which is quite more and quite more innovative than a traditional unsharpening photo shoip exercise makes the contrast transitions more accurate with what your eye would see if you are there. It really isn't arguable. There are lots of things one can validly differ about. This really isn't one of them. The amount of improvement is relatively small and one needs to be a careful viewer to notice what it does beyond a quick its a bit sharper picture now. One is made much more aware of small detail already there in the picture but mostly lost because of contrast capture, reproduction, and display limitations. The larger your display the more you will appreciate it but of course you can't sit so far away that all pictures would look the same if you switched a cheaper lower resolution projector in. We are talking viewed from normal viewing distances say 1 to 3 screen widths. Now those with small flat sceen displays might say the improvement is not worth the humungous fee of $269 but I think and based on selling results and deminimus return rates, I think most HT enthusiests would appreciate the improvement and think the cost worthwhile.
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post #1107 of 8390 Old 07-24-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazlog View Post


I have spoken with a leading authority in video compression and transfer......................................also i have used a demo model myself and my initial impressions were very favorable, but looking at and listening to those who know a thing or two about image quality it is just another image processing tool that may have uses with poorer broadcasts and maybe some DVDs. smile.gif

I've found the opposite with my Darblet. It doesn't help softer or "poorer" or lower res material as much and as agreeably as it does good HD material. Typical sharpness controls add something to the picture to make it look sharper - ringing around outlines. Producing that additional light ringing around image outlines will tend to make even lower res sources look sharper, because you are adding what isn't there.

Whereas the Darblet (for the most part) simply amplifies what IS there. If there is more detail there to be seen, it makes it more visible, but it doesn't work wonders on poorer source quality IMO.

As for getting "what the film makers wanted" or a perfect reproduction of the source, my impression is that the Darblet controls, much like any other image controls, can be used subtly or too much. When I crank it up higher and higher
I do get the feeling I'm seeing an enhanced, altered image. Highlights on people's faces for instance start to take on an artificial "pushed" look that isn't there with the controls off, and which I feel certain a cinematographer would
start to object.

I saw the re-release of Bladerunner on film a while back and it was gorgeous. When I put Bladerunner on HD DVD on my JVC RS20 projector it was amazing how similar it looked to what I saw in the theater. However, on my JVC RS55 I watched it with the Darblet, probably around %50 or so. Many times the image was distinctly sharper than I saw in the theater, or viewed on my RS20 without the Darblet. In that way it did jump out as "enhanced" to me. At the same time, it really did add some "wow" to the image that was hard not to like.

I've been very appreciative of the Darblet as it seems to allow me even bigger image sizes while maintaining great image clarity.
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post #1108 of 8390 Old 07-24-2012, 10:12 AM
 
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Rich. Hi. I think there is another issue to making a comparison to what one sees in a commercial movie theater vs at home. In my experience commercial movie projects are not that carefully focused and certainly the on off and black ref values are quite often much better at home. then there are the issues of film vs digital feeds to the commercial theater ad well as DCI color spaces vs Rec 709.
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post #1109 of 8390 Old 07-24-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Those don't sound very fun to me... I'm not a HTPC guy (yet) so I'm hoping this surprise he has in store is something that will appeal to the majority of potential Darblet owners. Not at all saying many wouldn't benefit from the above mentioned possibilities... I'm just personally not smart to them so I reserve comment.
Agree about the htcp ; maybe a lumagen or dvdo vp incorporating an
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Darbee IP Block™
and DrDB didnt say no to an audio device -some upsampler who knows what ? These darblets will be popping up in projectors/lcd etc thats for sure ;licencees are queueing up I feel:)
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post #1110 of 8390 Old 07-24-2012, 11:19 AM
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I doubt many directors want their movies to be forever limited by the current state of display or home video technology. Why do you think they continually remaster their movies every time some technological improvement comes out that will give them a sharper picture, better contrast or more vibrant colors?

Blu-ray is an inherently compromised video format. It's heavily compressed, and the colors are cut down to 8-bit resolution. None of that is "director intent." To assume that a Blu-ray is absolutely what the director wants and cannot (or should not) be improved is a bit naive, frankly.

Just about any halfway decent HDTV or home theater projector will have significantly better contrast than the D-Cinema projectors used in theaters. Are all of these in violation of director intent?

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

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