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Video Processors > Darbee vision darblet
Steve Bruzonsky's Avatar Steve Bruzonsky 06:41 PM 07-25-2012
I saw a Darbee stating it had the new firmware on Ebay for $1,000 yesterday, and it sold quick!
The Darbees are flyin' off the shelves. Amazing!

The ad was right next to the iPad4 for $2,000.tongue.gif

lovingdvd's Avatar lovingdvd 09:12 PM 07-25-2012
Whew - almost a week of on and off reading to get through this thread front to back. Glad I decided to order one back on page 3. smile.gif Looking forward to receiving it when AVS get stock.

In the meantime I have a question for you Darbee owners out there... For those of you that use a mild to medium amount of Sharpness control in your projector - did you keep this same Sharpness setting after adding the Darbee to your system?

I typically use a mild to medium amount of Sharpness with my projectors. With my VW95 I have Sharpness at 15. I'm curious if the Darbee plays well with such settings and is complementary, or whether I may be better off lowering or even removing the Sharpness setting once using the Darbee. I'll be experimenting of course, but curious if anyone has already been down that road and if so what your findings were. Thanks!
RapalloAV's Avatar RapalloAV 09:39 PM 07-25-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Whew - almost a week of on and off reading to get through this thread front to back. Glad I decided to order one back on page 3. smile.gif Looking forward to receiving it when AVS get stock.
In the meantime I have a question for you Darbee owners out there... For those of you that use a mild to medium amount of Sharpness control in your projector - did you keep this same Sharpness setting after adding the Darbee to your system?
I typically use a mild to medium amount of Sharpness with my projectors. With my VW95 I have Sharpness at 15. I'm curious if the Darbee plays well with such settings and is complementary, or whether I may be better off lowering or even removing the Sharpness setting once using the Darbee. I'll be experimenting of course, but curious if anyone has already been down that road and if so what your findings were. Thanks!

I have my Lumagen set to +5 on sharpness controls, JVC RS65 set to 0, Darblet HD 55, I never changed the sharpness on the Lumagen. The image is Amazing!
millerwill's Avatar millerwill 09:52 PM 07-25-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Whew - almost a week of on and off reading to get through this thread front to back. Glad I decided to order one back on page 3. smile.gif Looking forward to receiving it when AVS get stock.
In the meantime I have a question for you Darbee owners out there... For those of you that use a mild to medium amount of Sharpness control in your projector - did you keep this same Sharpness setting after adding the Darbee to your system?
I typically use a mild to medium amount of Sharpness with my projectors. With my VW95 I have Sharpness at 15. I'm curious if the Darbee plays well with such settings and is complementary, or whether I may be better off lowering or even removing the Sharpness setting once using the Darbee. I'll be experimenting of course, but curious if anyone has already been down that road and if so what your findings were. Thanks!


I have Sharpness on 15 with my Sony 1000ES.    My impression is that the Darblet primarily enhances intrascene contrast.


dholmes54's Avatar dholmes54 07:38 AM 07-26-2012
Ive been gone a while & need to catch up,are we suppose to send are Darbee back for updating if you arent having any problems?
HiFiFun's Avatar HiFiFun 09:52 AM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

How does the Darbee look after processing perfectly sharp computer text, like the screen you are looking at now? (even Windows has several 3D shadow and clear type effects)
Is it convent to use? Or is it one more box that needs to be switched on/off?
Does the Darbee assist in correcting errors in the reproduction chain and in the observer vision acuity?
Does the optimal setting vary by distance?
Would each person want to adjust it to their own (and different) preference?
Does is help out static images of three chip LCoS projectors more than single chip DLP with excellent optics? Is resolution improved or degraded?
Does it help projectors with typical convergence errors more so than say a flat panel with almost perfect convergence?
Does it improve or degrade motion resolution both subjectively and objectively?
Do 3D films need more 3D?
Lastly I've noticed the AMD 7.6 video drivers have improved realism and fidelity that I'm trying to account for. Are Darbee's contagious?wink.gif
Thanks!
I thought a bit about the Darbee processing while I was evaluating the Hi-bit24 processing in the new Pioneer SC-61 receiver. It takes a 16 bit audio signal and interpolated it into 24 bits.
I like the effect as it mostly restores what what never sampled and reduces quantization distortion.

MPEG video signals on the other hand are very lossy with much useful information discarded. To find the right algorithms I would create two frame buffers: one with the RAW uncompressed video and the other with the compressed and decoded version.
Then subtract the two. This is what your processing should attempt to restore.
millerwill's Avatar millerwill 10:10 AM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post

Ive been gone a while & need to catch up,are we suppose to send are Darbee back for updating if you arent having any problems?


I wasn't having any problems with my Darblet, but since my Radiance says that it like the 422 color space (needing fewer conversations), I reasoned that it would be better if the Darblet accepted and passed on things in this space.    Whether this will make any difference in what I see, is another question!


dsinger's Avatar dsinger 01:47 PM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


I wasn't having any problems with my Darblet, but since my Radiance says that it like the 422 color space (needing fewer conversations), I reasoned that it would be better if the Darblet accepted and passed on things in this space.    Whether this will make any difference in what I see, is another question!

I have the same issue and look forward to your comments as to whether you can see a difference when the Darblet is updated.
Waboman's Avatar Waboman 03:27 PM 07-26-2012
I just ordered one, thanks Mike. I'll be using it with a JVC HD950 (RS25). I have a 50' HDMI cable from my pre/pro, run thru my ceiling to my projector. I was thinking about just resting the Darblet on top of the projector and buying a .5m HDMI cable. But I have nowhere to plug in the power cord. I wonder if connecting the Darblet after the processor to the 50' cable will hinder performance? Any ideas or suggestions?
AV Science Sales 4's Avatar AV Science Sales 4 04:06 PM 07-26-2012
It is truly amazing how long a thread this is and most of it is repetitions of previous posts and observations.

Re setting sharpness on a device. Crank it until lines ring and then back of until the ringing stops. That's the correct sharpness adjustment point on a device and I would define that as the 0 sharpness point regardless of the setting number, plus one, plus two, plus fifteen or whatever. The Darbee has no effect on the sharpness setting. The Darblet sinply speaking increases the perceived contrast accros contrast transitions and by doing so makes the image sharper to ones eyes but it really doesn't directly increase sharpness. By enhancing the contrast your eyes see it as sharper. The Darbee process does intro some noise, broadly defined as noise, into the picture, and one i think you stop cranking it up when the noise becomes visable or the image gets too contrasty. That's about it. It justn't isn't all that complicated or interactive with outher settings on other devices. It might be interesting for those who have high on off contrast ratio display devices to crank in a high gamma, say 2.5 or 2.6 and doing so providing you don't crush the blacks. Then the Darbee's contrast enhancement setting might need to be lowered a bit from an otherwise normal higher Darbee setting. I don't know, haven't tried it no having a projector right now. Still waiting a 1000ES from Sony.
DarbeeDr's Avatar DarbeeDr 04:06 PM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

I just ordered one, thanks Mike. I'll be using it with a JVC HD950 (RS25). I have a 50' HDMI cable from my pre/pro, run thru my ceiling to my projector. I was thinking about just resting the Darblet on top of the projector and buying a .5m HDMI cable. But I have nowhere to plug in the power cord. I wonder if connecting the Darblet after the processor to the 50' cable will hinder performance? Any ideas or suggestions?

If your cable truly performs to spec, the Darblet will be happy to coexist before or after.

-DD
popalock's Avatar popalock 04:28 PM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

It is truly amazing how long a thread this is and most i>of it is repitions of previous posts and observations.

Maybe a FAQ section could be added to the first post of the thread. Common questions, such as "where in the chain" and others could easily be referenced in one spot vs having to re-explain.
Waboman's Avatar Waboman 04:29 PM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

If your cable truly performs to spec, the Darblet will be happy to coexist before or after.
-DD

Thanks, D².

Sounds like a party. Now who's bringing the tequila?
RonF's Avatar RonF 04:54 PM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Thanks, D².
Sounds like a party. Now who's bringing the tequila?


Like it!.....lot better than "Dr. Darbee" anyway.......biggrin.gif

edit....yes I know that's incorrect but that's the point......biggrin.gif
Ronomy's Avatar Ronomy 05:50 PM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


I wasn't having any problems with my Darblet, but since my Radiance says that it like the 422 color space (needing fewer conversations), I reasoned that it would be better if the Darblet accepted and passed on things in this space.    Whether this will make any difference in what I see, is another question!

The radiance is best sent 422 but you can output what your TV needs for the best image. The radiance may convert better than your TV.unless your TV is best with 422. My JVC doesn't do well with 422. With the Darblet after the radiance it might be best to output 444 to the Darblet after its updated since the Darblet processes in 444. Let the Radiance convert to 444...don't let the Darblet convert 422 to 444 back to 422.
millerwill's Avatar millerwill 06:18 PM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post


The radiance is best sent 422 but you can output what your TV needs for the best image. The radiance may convert better than your TV.unless your TV is best with 422. My JVC doesn't do well with 422. With the Darblet after the radiance it might be best to output 444 to the Darblet after its updated since the Darblet processes in 444. Let the Radiance convert to 444...don't let the Darblet convert 422 to 444 back to 422.


Well, as Mark Haflich has said, one will have to experiment with their specific equipment to try to determine which color space is best for each component.     The Lumagen material suggests that most consumer displays work directly with 422, but this may not be the case for all.    My guess is that it will be very hard by eye--without being able to flip instantly back and forth between different combinations--to discern differences between different choices.     I'm hoping that some people here on the forum, who are much more professional in this than I, will do all this and report to us novices!


Gil Arroyo's Avatar Gil Arroyo 06:58 PM 07-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I doubt many directors want their movies to be forever limited by the current state of display or home video technology. Why do you think they continually remaster their movies every time some technological improvement comes out that will give them a sharper picture, better contrast or more vibrant colors?
Blu-ray is an inherently compromised video format. It's heavily compressed, and the colors are cut down to 8-bit resolution. None of that is "director intent." To assume that a Blu-ray is absolutely what the director wants and cannot (or should not) be improved is a bit naive, frankly.
Just about any halfway decent HDTV or home theater projector will have significantly better contrast than the D-Cinema projectors used in theaters. Are all of these in violation of director intent?

My experience with directors leads me to believe that most of them know nothing of film or video resolution and care less. They barely know what format it is and assume the editor will take care of everything that the camera man doesn't.
WynsWrld98's Avatar WynsWrld98 11:59 PM 07-26-2012
For Darbee owners, is there a way to register the product and be notified of firmware updates (e.g., e-mail)? I realize the unit can't be upgraded at home but knowing a firmware update is available is better than trying to remember to keep going to the Darbee site and looking periodically (which I'd never remember to do) then make a decision when/if you want to mail it in. I have one on order from AVS...
42Plasmaman's Avatar 42Plasmaman 07:56 AM 07-27-2012
Does the Darbee have any effect on scenes with panning?
AV Science Sales 4's Avatar AV Science Sales 4 08:07 AM 07-27-2012
It won't help reduce judder. It is not a motion processor. It doesn't generate artificial frames that one might use to insert between real frames etc.
nickbuol's Avatar nickbuol 08:08 AM 07-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Does the Darbee have any effect on scenes with panning?

Do you mean like stuttering/ghosting?
Franin's Avatar Franin 08:18 AM 07-27-2012
Looking forward in receiving mine soon.
giomania's Avatar giomania 09:06 AM 07-27-2012
In the last couple of days, I have been "under the weather", so to speak. I have been feeling jealous and anxious with symptoms of fever, cold sweats, and blurry vision.

So, I went to the doctor and said "Doctor, doctor, give me the news". He said "No pill's gonna cure your ill", you've got a bad case of Darblet Fever.

He told me the only cure for this affliction costs $269, and it is not covered by the health insurance.

I placed my order for one today. cool.giftongue.gif:D;)

Mark
rboster's Avatar rboster 09:10 AM 07-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

In the last couple of days, I have been "under the weather", so to speak. I have been feeling jealous and anxious with symptoms of fever, cold sweats, and blurry vision.
So, I went to the doctor and said "Doctor, doctor, give me the news". He said "No pill's gonna cure your ill", you've got a bad case of Darblet Fever.
He told me the only cure for this affliction costs $269, and it is not covered by the health insurance.
I placed my order for one today. cool.giftongue.gif:D;)
Mark

LOL-thanks for my morning laugh.

********************

AVS Sales consultants or Dr Darbee:

Any updates on shipping the units out (today as originally hoped) to AVS?
42Plasmaman's Avatar 42Plasmaman 10:36 AM 07-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Do you mean like stuttering/ghosting?
Stuttering, ghosting, pixelation/break up of picture, etc.
Waboman's Avatar Waboman 10:44 AM 07-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Looking forward in receiving mine soon.


That's great news, Franin. I'm glad you were able to procure one Down Under at a reasonable price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

So, I went to the doctor and said "Doctor, doctor, give me the news". He said "No pill's gonna cure your ill", you've got a bad case of Darblet Fever.

I've got a fever. And the only cure is more cowbell Darblet.biggrin.gif
Franin's Avatar Franin 11:16 AM 07-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

That's great news, Franin. I'm glad you were able to procure one Down Under at a reasonable price.

I got one cheaper in the States. smile.gif
Waboman's Avatar Waboman 11:22 AM 07-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I got one cheaper in the States. smile.gif

I know, I got your email.wink.gif Was just saying I'm happy you were able to get one at a reasonable price shipped Down Under. I need more cowbell.tongue.gif
ajglass's Avatar ajglass 11:45 AM 07-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post


It doesn't help softer or "poorer" or lower res material as much and as agreeably as it does good HD material. Typical sharpness controls add something to the picture to make it look sharper - ringing around outlines. Producing that additional light ringing around image outlines will tend to make even lower res sources look sharper, because you are adding what isn't there. If there is more detail there to be seen, it makes it more visible, but it doesn't work wonders on poorer source quality IMO.


Along those lines, I've gotten superior results with the Darbee [set at Green-60%] when viewing over-the-air transmissions from TV stations producing live HD video. The Olympic Games, which employ state-of-the-art HD cameras, should prove to be a good example.

giomania's Avatar giomania 12:15 PM 07-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

The radiance is best sent 422 but you can output what your TV needs for the best image. The radiance may convert better than your TV.unless your TV is best with 422. My JVC doesn't do well with 422. With the Darblet after the radiance it might be best to output 444 to the Darblet after its updated since the Darblet processes in 444. Let the Radiance convert to 444...don't let the Darblet convert 422 to 444 back to 422.

I have a Radiance XS-3D, and so can choose to send the Darblet YCbCr 4:4:4 as you noted above. However, it is technically best to send the projector (DLA-RS35) RGB with PC video levels, according to the Greg Rogers' review of the projector. What am I supposed to do then?

For the edification of all, and in the event I have misunderstood it, here is the excerpt (with key sentences underlined) from the Greg Rogers review of the RS-35 that further explains what I stated above:

HDMI Compatibility

The two HDMI 1.3 inputs accept 480i/p, 576i/p, 720p60/50, 1080i60/50, and 1080p60/50/24 digital video signals, and up to 1920 x 1200 (60 Hz) digital PC signals. The HDMI inputs accept 4:2:2 YCbCr signals, and RGB or 4:4:4 YCbCr signals with up to 12-bit Deep Color. Those signal types can be automatically or manually selected in the on-screen menu. Manual selection of the signal type is important so a user can override automatic selection if there are problems with any particular type of source signal.

The correct color-decoding matrix (Rec. 709) was automatically selected for high-definition YCbCr signals, but was incorrectly selected for standard-definition YCbCr signals. Only RGB signals produced correct color with a 480i/p or 576i/p HDMI connection. JVC needs to correct that problem and should consider also adding manual selection of the Rec. 601 (SD) and Rec. 709 (HD) color-decoding matrices because there have been multiple upconverting DVD players that output YCbCr signals with the wrong color encoding.

Automatic or manual selection of Standard and Enhanced HDMI/DVI levels is provided. The Standard mode is intended for YCbCr and RGB-video input signals (black at digital code 16 and reference white at 235), and the Enhanced mode is intended for digital RGB-PC input signals (black at 0 and reference white at 255). However, the Standard mode clipped incoming digital signals below level 16 (black) and above level 235 (reference white). Although signal levels below black aren’t intended to be seen, the headroom above reference white (digital level 235) is provided for video signal excursions that may occur in video sources during capture and processing. To prevent possible signal clipping, use the Enhanced mode and recalibrate the Brightness and Contrast controls for the proper black level and headroom above reference white.

Thanks for any input.

Mark
Tags: Darbeevision Darblet Hdmi Video Processor
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